I'm tired.

[Oatmeal31]

I've cold approached so many times. My game is infinitely better than what it used to be, but the process of going into the city and hitting on girls is taking a heavy toll. I felt the urge to write this out because I went out yesterday, as I usually do, bar hopped and hit on some girls. I ended the night with hitting on this very attractive girl that was super receptive, open to taking her out after I told her I'll see her wild side (related to some Miami talk). She was at the table with her girl friend so I took her number after a conversation and left them to it.

You can never truly tell but that felt like a slam dunk, in the bag. Texted her later on. Ghosted, no response. So ****ing sick of this ****. Normally, I'd just take it on the chin and keep going, but I feel like giving up every day at this point.

Most of my approaches on done on the street in the city, with some that turn out to brutal rejections lol. It feels inhumane to be ignored,etc. when I'm trying to start a conversation. I've had a really bad time since moving to the city..I thought it'd be better with more social 'opportunities' but I'm getting nicked.

I'm above average in looks and very fit. Been working out for many years. I'm not butt ugly FYI

I just want to rant. We do all of this for so little in return. It feels like an attrition test on the soul to the extreme.

I question myself every day if it's worth it. Yes, I've improved substantially, even socially but it ain't even fun anymore.

I'm running out of steam.

 

[Clockwerk50]

In nightclubs, many women are looking for short-term encounters rather than long-term relationships. They’re often interested in one-night stands or casual fun, not necessarily seeking a deeper connection.

That said, there are two types of seduction: short and long. Short-term seduction involves acting quickly and decisively to create instant attraction. This might include bold moves, like standing out in a crowd with clothes and jewelry or performing a heroic act like cold approaching, using the element of surprise to their advantage to spark immediate desire. The goal is to make a quick impact, but it can be exhausting and often leads to burnout.

Long-term seduction, on the other hand, is more gradual and requires patience. It focuses on building attraction over time through subtlety, emotional connection, and careful maneuvering. While it may lead to fewer, but deeper, encounters, it often results in more meaningful and lasting connections.

 

[BPH]

Welcome to being a man.

Now you know why so few people are good at cold approaching - because a lot of people don't have thick enough skin to be rejected constantly without taking it personally while they slowly develop.

I think you need both a perspective shift and a mentality shift.

Perspective: Instead of thinking negatively about how likely it is for your next approach to go poorly, you should be excited about how well it could possibly go. Sure, she could say no, ghost you, or whatever else...but she could also say yes, and you could end up banging her brains out later that night. You truly never know and it IS a numbers game - there are simply too many things outside of your control for you to take it personally. Beyond whether she's physically attracted to you, women are ruled by their emotions; she might've had a bad day at work, she might be waiting for a friend, she might've just had a fight or broken up with her boyfriend, etc. Work on the things you can control.

Mentality: This should not be a slog. You should be enjoying this process and taking it as a learning experience that allows you the possibility of success AS you learn. It should not be work; when you go out on weekends with your friends or work out at the gym, or wherever else you see a pretty girl, just go say hi. You do not need to dedicate significant time to this or have some sort of quota to reach - you should just be doing this in your day-to-day as your skills develop. One of the funniest rejections I had early on was when I was daygaming with a friend at some parade event thing. I went up to a girl and asked her name. She answered, but I couldn't hear her, so I asked her again, and her response was "it doesn't matter" and she looked away and kept walking. My friend was laughing his a** off for a solid 5 minutes and I thought it was pretty funny too.

TL;DR Focus on how well things COULD go, improve on the things YOU can control, and have fun with the process.

 

[BackInTheGame78]

You met a woman out at a club. She was not looking for something at a later date, she was looking for something THAT NIGHT.

Not understanding the context of how things change based on the venue and time of night kills many men's chances.

Do not be frustrated with her, be frustrated with yourself for not making something happen THAT NIGHT.

If you approach at a club, there is no reason to ever expect hearing from them again if something doesn't happen that night.

Coming from a house DJ that worked in nightclubs for almost a decade.

 

[Oatmeal31]

You met a woman out at a club. She was not looking for something at a later date, she was looking for something THAT NIGHT.

Not understanding the context of how things change based on the venue and time of night kills many men's chances.

Do not be frustrated with her, be frustrated with yourself for not making something happen THAT NIGHT.

If you approach at a club, there is no reason to ever expect hearing from them again if something doesn't happen that night.

Coming from a house DJ that worked in nightclubs for almost a decade.

It was at a bar, and she was sitting at a table with her friend. I've done this numerous times before, and the chances of taking her out that night was slim to none because I was by myself without a wingman to take her friend. I struck up conversation, there was chemistry, took her hand, sexual tease blah blah blah.

Everything that's been said so far, I'm familiar with. I've approached in all kinds of venues, enough to know. But I've made it a quota because the only way to strike gold is to constantly shoot. It's become painful with moments of fun.

I'm really just ranting, not looking for any critique on my game. Some emotional support maybe lol

 

[taiyuu_otoko]

It could be a lot worse.

You could be too terrified to even say hey to a pretty girl.

Nobody ever succeeds easily.

Hang in there.

 

[Oatmeal31]

Welcome to being a man.

Now you know why so few people are good at cold approaching - because a lot of people don't have thick enough skin to be rejected constantly without taking it personally while they slowly develop.

I think you need both a perspective shift and a mentality shift.

Perspective: Instead of thinking negatively about how likely it is for your next approach to go poorly, you should be excited about how well it could possibly go. Sure, she could say no, ghost you, or whatever else...but she could also say yes, and you could end up banging her brains out later that night. You truly never know and it IS a numbers game - there are simply too many things outside of your control for you to take it personally. Beyond whether she's physically attracted to you, women are ruled by their emotions; she might've had a bad day at work, she might be waiting for a friend, she might've just had a fight or broken up with her boyfriend, etc. Work on the things you can control.

Mentality: This should not be a slog. You should be enjoying this process and taking it as a learning experience that allows you the possibility of success AS you learn. It should not be work; when you go out on weekends with your friends or work out at the gym, or wherever else you see a pretty girl, just go say hi. You do not need to dedicate significant time to this or have some sort of quota to reach - you should just be doing this in your day-to-day as your skills develop. One of the funniest rejections I had early on was when I was daygaming with a friend at some parade event thing. I went up to a girl and asked her name. She answered, but I couldn't hear her, so I asked her again, and her response was "it doesn't matter" and she looked away and kept walking. My friend was laughing his a** off for a solid 5 minutes and I thought it was pretty funny too.

TL;DR Focus on how well things COULD go, improve on the things YOU can control, and have fun with the process.

Yes, I understand. It becomes incredibly difficult to enjoy the process if there's so much bull**** involved. Imagine getting a job interview, genuinely connecting with them, good chemistry, and a farewell, just to go home and find a rejection email in your inbox. It's fun until that happens..again, and again, and again.

Hell, you'd find it frustrating if we were talking about potential friends, not girls.
Imagine if you connected well with guys you met at the bar, things end on a good note, and then you get blown off when you reach out later? And this happens all but 10% or less of the time?

What if you tried to talk to people and they just gave you a cold shoulder?

That's what I'm tired of. Yes, I have good moments, but there are so many unpleasantries between them

Yes, I've made it a quota. Because if it's a numbers game, after having improved enough, then that's the only way for me to hit my goals, right?

 

[SW15]

Miami

Most of my approaches on done on the street in the city, with some that turn out to brutal rejections lol. It feels inhumane to be ignored,etc. when I'm trying to start a conversation. I've had a really bad time since moving to the city..I thought it'd be better with more social 'opportunities' but I'm getting nicked.

I'm above average in looks and very fit. Been working out for many years. I'm not butt ugly FYI

In 2012, Roosh called street approaching the most difficult approach venue.

How To Pick Up Girls On The Street

Pure street game is very difficult. New York City and Miami are two of the few cities in the USA where street game is possible. In most larger US cities, street game isn't very viable. Most US cities will have better outdoor game options on paths/in parks.

Outdoor game as a whole is difficult with women wearing earbuds/headphones more frequently. My city isn't good for pure street game. The parks and urban walking paths have the majority of women wearing earbuds/headphones to discourage approaches.

You are going to take a lot of soft no's as an outdoor approacher and even some hard no's as an outdoor approacher. Some of the no's will be harsh.

I went out yesterday, as I usually do, bar hopped and hit on some girls.

I ended the night with hitting on this very attractive girl that was super receptive, open to taking her out after I told her I'll see her wild side (related to some Miami talk). She was at the table with her girl friend so I took her number after a conversation and left them to it.

You met a woman out at a club. She was not looking for something at a later date, she was looking for something THAT NIGHT.

Not understanding the context of how things change based on the venue and time of night kills many men's chances.

Do not be frustrated with her, be frustrated with yourself for not making something happen THAT NIGHT.

If you approach at a club, there is no reason to ever expect hearing from them again if something doesn't happen that night.

Coming from a house DJ that worked in nightclubs for almost a decade.

When doing bar/nightclub approaches later at night, you must push for the same night sex as @BackInTheGame78 mentions. If the energy of the venue is high, it's definitely going to be a same night sex play. Some more mellow venues (like a higher end lounge or wine bar) might not necessarily be places to push for same night sex, it's still even a good idea to push for same night sex in these venues later at night.

If you want to use bars to set up dates on future nights, the best way to do that is early in the night at the venue (before 9 PM). Weeknight happy hour times (around 5-7 PM) are good for this and even 7-9 PM on weeknights is still good enough.

Another pro tip -- late nights weekdays at venues have women who are more serious about meeting men. If a woman is at a bar at 11 PM on a Tuesday night, she is seeking new penis. The woman at the bar on Friday/Saturday night at 11 PM might be interested in new penis but she's also going to be interested in attention, social media pics/videos, and have her defense shields way up. Additionally, every beta male John Paycheck is going to be at the bars on Friday/Saturday night trying to get lucky and annoying women with their bad approach/social skills.

 

[Oatmeal31]

In 2012, Roosh called street approaching the most difficult approach venue.

How To Pick Up Girls On The Street

Pure street game is very difficult. New York City and Miami are two of the few cities in the USA where street game is possible. In most larger US cities, street game isn't very viable. Most US cities will have better outdoor game options on paths/in parks.

Outdoor game as a whole is difficult with women wearing earbuds/headphones more frequently. My city isn't good for pure street game. The parks and urban walking paths have the majority of women wearing earbuds/headphones to discourage approaches.

You are going to take a lot of soft no's as an outdoor approacher and even some hard no's as an outdoor approacher. Some of the no's will be harsh.






When doing bar/nightclub approaches later at night, you must push for the same night sex as @BackInTheGame78 mentions. If the energy of the venue is high, it's definitely going to be a same night sex play. Some more mellow venues (like a higher end lounge or wine bar) might not necessarily be places to push for same night sex, it's still even a good idea to push for same night sex in these venues later at night.

If you want to use bars to set up dates on future nights, the best way to do that is early in the night at the venue (before 9 PM). Weeknight happy hour times (around 5-7 PM) are good for this and even 7-9 PM on weeknights is still good enough.

Another pro tip -- late nights weekdays at venues have women who are more serious about meeting men. If a woman is at a bar at 11 PM on a Tuesday night, she is seeking new penis. The woman at the bar on Friday/Saturday night at 11 PM might be interested in new penis but she's also going to be interested in attention, social media pics/videos, and have her defense shields way up. Additionally, every beta male John Paycheck is going to be at the bars on Friday/Saturday night trying to get lucky and annoying women with their bad approach/social skills.

I get you and I understand those points but here's the thing. I do all of my approaching solo. All of it. When I go to the club I have absolutely had success pulling girls that are ALONE, whether they are by themselves (which is rare), waiting for their friends, getting drinks or separate from them for whatever reason. The problem is separating her from the group.

I have been ****blocked so many times from other girls speaking for her, even if she is interested, saying, "No, she's my wife!" "She has a boyfriend." "No, you can't" etc. This happens even when I always introduce myself to the whole group. It's ****ing annoying but that's what I'm dealing with.

In this case, I approached this girl while she was alone and she liked it. There was back and forth, questions from her, sexual innuendos..her friend came back from the bathroom and she was cool too. Thing is, the best I can do further the convo a bit more and then say hey I gotta go but I'll be taking you out sometime, let me grab your number. Because the chances of me taking her from her friend and leaving her alone is about zero. She would object, I've had it happen before. This girl was enthusiastic, gave me her number and all but she ghosted in the end.

I get that things happen. Another guy with his friends probably entered the picture that night after I left. I don't know. It's outta my control. But this on top of the brutal street game I've had to endure is a kick to the ass. I thought I had that one in the bag.

Hell, before that I had another girl that same night I met at the mall. I tried to get her to come out with me the same night but she was leaving the state tomorrow morning. We followed each other on insta and then she unfollowed me this morning and tried to leave me as a follower, as if I'm a fan lmao. Baffles me a lot of the time, and it takes a toll dealing with this nonsense

 

[SW15]

I do all of my approaching solo. All of it. When I go to the club I have absolutely had success pulling girls that are ALONE, whether they are by themselves (which is rare), waiting for their friends, getting drinks or separate from them for whatever reason. The problem is separating her from the group.

Daygame is a better option for men who are solo approachers.

In daygame, the majority of women are already separated from their group of friends.

In bars, almost all women go to bars with friends. It's possible to approach solo at nightlife venues but the degree of difficulty is much higher.

I have done nightlife venue approaching alone many times but I prefer to go to venues with male friends/wings.

 

[Oatmeal31]

Daygame is a better option for men who are solo approachers.

In daygame, the majority of women are already separated from their group of friends.

In bars, almost all women go to bars with friends. It's possible to approach solo at nightlife venues but the degree of difficulty is much higher.

I have done nightlife venue approaching alone many times but I prefer to go to venues with male friends/wings.

Yes that is true. Sometimes their friends are cool and leave the 2 of you alone.

That being said, would you have done anything different in my shoes? Way I see it, there were only 2 options. End with the number or attempt to hit on both for a possible threesome. The ladder I've never attempted yet

 

[SW15]

That being said, would you have done anything different in my shoes? Way I see it, there were only 2 options. End with the number or attempt to hit on both for a possible threesome. The ladder I've never attempted yet

Go for the same night sex with the one you were doing well with. Deflect the penis blocking friend.

You probably don't have the skill level to pull off the threesome.

When you are solo in a bar and approaching, are you mainly approaching women in Groups of 2?

 

[Oatmeal31]

Go for the same night sex with the one you were doing well with. Deflect the penis blocking friend.

You probably don't have the skill level to pull off the threesome.

When you are solo in a bar and approaching, are you mainly approaching women in Groups of 2?

Like I said, chances of that happening is slim to none. She wasn't ****blocking in this case, just there. Why would the girl I'm interested leave her friend for a guy she barely knows? Even if she knew me better, a girl wouldn't leave her friend by herself.

If you could detail an experience where you were able to do that, then I'd color myself wrong.

As for my approaching. Ideally they are by themselves, but 95% of girls do not go out alone, so I do end up approaching a girl I like with 2-4 girls at a time

 

[CornbreadFed]

Maybe should’ve listened to @CornbreadFed

 

[BPH]

It was at a bar, and she was sitting at a table with her friend. I've done this numerous times before, and the chances of taking her out that night was slim to none because I was by myself without a wingman to take her friend. I struck up conversation, there was chemistry, took her hand, sexual tease blah blah blah.

This is a self-limiting belief you need to get rid of. If a woman is interested there is very little you can do wrong, and if not there is very little you can do right. Additionally, a wingman is not a crutch you should have to rely on - more often than not they're a hindrance because they're just as clueless as you, if not more so.

I recall a night when I went home with a particularly hot sorority girl I met out at the bar. She and her friend were making their way through the crowd when I stopped her and told her I thought she was gorgeous and just had to say hi. She stopped everything she was doing, told her friend to go on without her, and then stopped to sit down and talk to me with the most longing stare from a woman I could recall. I picked up on her receptiveness very quickly and went for the kiss early. She was then the one to suggest we leave and ordered us an Uber back to her place - leaving her friend at the bar (who showed up at the house later that night because she's apparently a roommate too). My "wingman" was actually pissy that I left without telling him what I was doing, even though he saw me leaving with the girl and I motioned to him that I was going to hers - just an example of wingmen being largely useless.

This is just a reminder of how well things can go if you try.

On a side note, if things went as well as you THINK they did, I think you might just be misreading the conversation. There is a very big difference between a girl who is interested in you and one who's just being polite and friendly. Experience to tell the difference comes with time, but you shouldn't be surprised by low interest - you should be able to recognize it and leave so you can spend your time with another woman instead.

Yes, I understand. It becomes incredibly difficult to enjoy the process if there's so much bull**** involved. Imagine getting a job interview, genuinely connecting with them, good chemistry, and a farewell, just to go home and find a rejection email in your inbox. It's fun until that happens..again, and again, and again.

Hell, you'd find it frustrating if we were talking about potential friends, not girls.
Imagine if you connected well with guys you met at the bar, things end on a good note, and then you get blown off when you reach out later? And this happens all but 10% or less of the time?

What if you tried to talk to people and they just gave you a cold shoulder?

That's what I'm tired of. Yes, I have good moments, but there are so many unpleasantries between them

Yes, I've made it a quota. Because if it's a numbers game, after having improved enough, then that's the only way for me to hit my goals, right?

Yeah...those are the growing pains. I've been there, done that. That's why you have to enjoy the process. When I first started doing this I used canned corny pickup lines and would approach while hanging out with my brother or cousin while down at the beach.

If I got rejected we would just laugh it off. The corny lines usually got a laugh or a smile, even if it was a rejection, and I wasn't too invested in the outcome. It was just to get comfortable being uncomfortable.

In this case, I approached this girl while she was alone and she liked it. There was back and forth, questions from her, sexual innuendos..her friend came back from the bathroom and she was cool too. Thing is, the best I can do further the convo a bit more and then say hey I gotta go but I'll be taking you out sometime, let me grab your number. Because the chances of me taking her from her friend and leaving her alone is about zero. She would object, I've had it happen before. This girl was enthusiastic, gave me her number and all but she ghosted in the end.

This is another example of that same self-limiting belief you need to get rid of; because you've never had a woman interested enough to leave her friend for you you think it's not even a possibility. You are self-ejecting. Stop doing that.

Jordan Peterson had a really good analogy on why negative experiences are significantly more influential compared to positive ones; he said on one end you can only be so happy...but on the other, you could be literally dead - meaning the upside potential is low, while the downside potential is massive.

In this case, it's the opposite; on one end she can only say no, in which you move on with your life...or she could say yes, which could mean a date, a kiss, sex, a girlfriend, your future wife, etc.

So roll the damn dice instead of assuming you'll lose the game before even playing.

Yes, I've made it a quota. Because if it's a numbers game, after having improved enough, then that's the only way for me to hit my goals, right?

My issue with a quota is that people often use it as a "cutoff point" where if they don't achieve their desired result they'll feel justified in giving up. As they would rather be correct in their assumption they'll fail, than happy.

It is a number's game, but when you focus on the number rather than the person in front of you, you don't learn anything, because you're thinking about what you're going to say to the next 5, 10, 20 girls after you finish talking to this one.

Anyway, my personal recommendations to you:

• Ignore @CornbreadFed . He's been on some BS lately about how awful the dating world is because he thinks he's dating a unicorn or something, at least from what I've read
• Take an honest look at yourself in the mirror. Are you really attractive, fit, dress nice, etc? Because if you're not, cold approaching becomes way harder when you're trying to sell an incomplete package
• Approach in your day-to-day and at night at bars or clubs and go for the one-night stand. Getting her number should not be your go-to...it should be your backup in case she can't accommodate you that night for reasons other than her lack of interest
• Go out with a friend - NOT A WINGMAN. I don't think you need a crutch, but I think you will enjoy the process more if you're not sitting alone with your thoughts focusing on your most recent rejection

 

[Oatmeal31]

This is a self-limiting belief you need to get rid of. If a woman is interested there is very little you can do wrong, and if not there is very little you can do right. Additionally, a wingman is not a crutch you should have to rely on - more often than not they're a hindrance because they're just as clueless as you, if not more so.

I recall a night when I went home with a particularly hot sorority girl I met out at the bar. She and her friend were making their way through the crowd when I stopped her and told her I thought she was gorgeous and just had to say hi. She stopped everything she was doing, told her friend to go on without her, and then stopped to sit down and talk to me with the most longing stare from a woman I could recall. I picked up on her receptiveness very quickly and went for the kiss early. She was then the one to suggest we leave and ordered us an Uber back to her place - leaving her friend at the bar (who showed up at the house later that night because she's apparently a roommate too). My "wingman" was actually pissy that I left without telling him what I was doing, even though he saw me leaving with the girl and I motioned with him that I was going to hers - just an example of wingmen being largely useless.

This is just a reminder of how well things can go if you try.

On a side note, if things went as well as you THINK they did, I think you might just be misreading the conversation. There is a very big difference between a girl who is interested in you and one who's just being polite and friendly. Experience to tell the difference comes with time, but you shouldn't be surprised by low interest - you should be able to recognize it and leave so you can spend your time with another woman instead.



Yeah...those are the growing pains. I've been there, done that. That's why you have to enjoy the process. When I first started doing this I used canned corny pickup lines and would approach while hanging out with my brother or cousin while down at the beach.

If I got rejected we would just laugh it off. The corny lines usually got a laugh or a smile, even if it was a rejection, and I wasn't too invested in the outcome. It was just to get comfortable being uncomfortable.



This is another example of that same self-limiting belief you need to get rid of; because you've never had a woman interested enough to leave her friend for you you think it's not even a possibility. You are self-ejecting. Stop doing that.

Jordan Peterson had a really good analogy on why negative experiences are significantly more influential compared to positive ones; he said on one end you can only be so happy...but on the other, you could be literally dead - meaning the upside potential is low, while the downside potential is massive.

In this case, it's the opposite; on one end she can only say no, in which you move on with your life...or she could say yes, which could mean a date, a kiss, sex, a girlfriend, your future wife, etc.

So roll the damn dice instead of assuming you'll lose the game before even playing.



My issue with a quota is that people often use it as a "cutoff point" where if they don't achieve their desired result they'll feel justified in giving up. As they would rather be correct than happy.

It is a number's game, but when you focus on the number rather than the person in front of you, you don't learn anything, because you're thinking about what you're going to say to the next 5, 10, 20 girls after you finish talking to this one.

Anyway, my personal recommendations to you:

• Ignore @CornbreadFed . He's been on some BS lately about how awful the dating world is because he thinks he's dating a unicorn or something, at least from what I've read.
• Take an honest look at yourself in the mirror. Are you really attractive, fit, dress nice, etc? Because if you're not, cold approaching becomes way harder when you're trying to sell an incomplete package
• Approach in your day-to-day and at night at bars or clubs and go for the one-night stand. Getting her number should not be your go-to...it should be your backup in case she can't accommodate you that night for reasons other than her lack of interest
• Go out with a friend - NOT A WINGMAN. I don't think you need a crutch, but I think you will enjoy the process more if you're not sitting alone with your thoughts focusing on your most recent rejection

I blocked that Cornbread dude. Nothing good from keyboard warriors

And thanks for typing that out, it's sound advice.

With girls that aren't there alone, I haven't been able to separate them on my own.

Let me ask you, how would you have tried to separate this girl that I mentioned from her friend?
Genuinely curious. I'll detail what I remember doing and maybe you could give me some guidance.

Saw this bombshell sitting at a table apart from the bar. What I did was say "hey, you caught my eye and I had to come up and shoot my shot." She was blushing from the get go.

I reach out my hand, asked her name (Maddi), she asked mine and we're holding hands and I'm caressing hers with my thumb the whole time. We're locking eyes and I say, "Your eyes are gorgeous. Green eyes?"(it's dark)

Maddi says yes, and I go into a guessing game on her roots. I say "wait, lemme guess, kinda tough with you because of the dark hair but I'm guessing, German?" She's giggling and says "yes I have some German and Polish." Her friend comes back from the bathroom and she introduces me to her and I talk to her about how I was guessing Maddi's roots.

Then we start talking a bit about their plans tonight and that I just moved from Florida. Maddi asks what part, I tell her, and we end up talking about Miami. I say that the two of them should try it out for a girl's night and how wild it's known to be. I tease her and say "I dunno how wild you can get but I'll find out" wink wink. The 3 of us are laughing. Maddi's into it.

Since I didn't think I'd be able to get her to ditch her girl friend, I tell her the night is early but I'll take her number and take her out later. She's super enthusiastic and goes for it. Maddi's typing it in and we're still talking. I'm seeing where she's from (the suburbs) and if she comes out often. After all that I get her hand again, hold and caress, and then tell her it was nice to meet her and take my leave. Happily ever after, then ghost.


Honestly, in your example, it sounds like she did all the legwork for you in regards to getting her apart from the group.

Problem is, most of the time this will happen (to me at least):

1. One or more of her friends will block and try to speak for her, even if she seems interested.

2. Sometimes they drag her away or they won't stop walking together as a group and she has to keep up with them

3. She shows interest but her friend(s) is quietly judging us, and the girl decides to decline my offer because of that pressure.

Problem is, it seems most girls don't speak for themselves, like the one you got, when they're with their friends, and let them get in the way.

I remember one girl once told me that her friends had done that in the past, and she was pissed because she was actually interested.

For the last part, I'm above average in looks everywhere except height. 5'5 but it doesn't affect me whatsoever, total nonfactor. Buff and I pay attention to what I wear.

The point about friends. You're right. I've hung out with a friend before that took a backseat whenever I approached, and I was even more lively with him around despite that and had a fairly good time regardless because that wasn't the main reason why I was out. I always felt that social groups are a cushion. The mentality you're talking about is more challenging to deal with when you're doing this alone, without social support to fall back on ,I believe.

Anyways, I'm open to suggestions. Seems like you cold approach a lot too

 

[BPH]

Anyways, I'm open to suggestions. Seems like you cold approach a lot too

It's what I do/have to do. I play the dating apps and cold approach cute girls I see when I'm out.

Some of this might come off as nitpicking, but I'll see what I can suggest.

Saw this bombshell sitting at a table apart from the bar. What I did was say "hey, you caught my eye and I had to come up and shoot my shot." She was blushing from the get go.

I would say something different. "Shoot my shot" puts her in the power position because you sound like you wouldn't expect your "shot" to land. Something like what I said in my example above might work better because you're letting her know you think she's attractive, but you haven't decided whether you like her yet - make her sell herself to you a little bit too.

I reach out my hand, asked her name (Maddi), she asked mine and we're holding hands and I'm caressing hers with my thumb the whole time. We're locking eyes and I say, "Your eyes are gorgeous. Green eyes?"(it's dark)

This might be a little pushy for some women. I'd probably start off lighter first; maybe touch her a little and see if she reciprocates, while gradually escalating. If you're just holding her hand hostage while she does nothing, that's not nearly as effective as you might think it is.

Maddi says yes, and I go into a guessing game on her roots. I say "wait, lemme guess, kinda tough with you because of the dark hair but I'm guessing, German?" She's giggling and says "yes I have some German and Polish." Her friend comes back from the bathroom and she introduces me to her and I talk to her about how I was guessing Maddi's roots.

This part is good.

Then we start talking a bit about their plans tonight and that I just moved from Florida. Maddi asks what part, I tell her, and we end up talking about Miami. I say that the two of them should try it out for a girl's night and how wild it's known to be. I tease her and say "I dunno how wild you can get but I'll find out" wink wink. The 3 of us are laughing. Maddi's into it.

Ok, here's what I would've done differently.

Once you acknowledge and introduce yourself to the friend ignore her completely and focus back on your girl. Go back to what you were doing and let the friend be a third wheel until she finds some other friend at the bar to latch onto, or takes the hint and decides to give you some space.

If your girl is more attentive to the friend than you at this point, she's probably not that interested.

If the friend is still hovering, then what I'd do is suggest you both go to the bar and take a shot - YOU ARE NOT OFFERING TO BUY HER A DRINK, you are offering to buy her a drink with YOU. In most cases she will separate herself from her friend, in which case you can be a little more flirty with her now that she's isolated while you wait for your drink. If the friend sticks with your girl, or worse - your girl brings the friend along, then that friend is probably going to get in the way of any action happening that night - directly or indirectly.

I also wouldn't have put the thought in of a girl's night - I would've told HER - not THEM - that you'd love to show HER around next time.

Since I didn't think I'd be able to get her to ditch her girl friend, I tell her the night is early but I'll take her number and take her out later. She's super enthusiastic and goes for it. Maddi's typing it in and we're still talking. I'm seeing where she's from (the suburbs) and if she comes out often. After all that I get her hand again, hold and caress, and then tell her it was nice to meet her and take my leave. Happily ever after, then ghost.

And here's the self-eject. I would've done what I mentioned above and tried to feel out her interest level; if she seemed down, I'd suggest a "postgame" or something at either of your places. If not, I'd take the number and talk to some other girl.

When you say the "night is early", I'm not sure when you go out, so I'd always suggest 2 hours or so before close is best time. The girls that are at the bars closer to closing are most likely the ones who are single and open to sex that night; they're not going to some other bar or party later and they're not waiting on/meeting their boyfriend out. This is also my suggestion so you don't waste your whole day/night camping out at a bar hoping to get a bite.

Honestly, in your example, it sounds like she did all the legwork for you in regards to getting her apart from the group.

Correct. My point is that I wouldn't have known that if I hadn't approached her.

From there, my experience being able to read her interest level and facilitate sex - going for the kiss rather than self-ejecting, for example - is what made her feel comfortable taking me home that night.

1. One or more of her friends will block and try to speak for her, even if she seems interested.

Politely, but firmly reiterate that you were asking the girl, and not her friend; "she's a big girl, I'm sure she can speak for herself". If the friend persists and your girl does nothing to curb it or separate from her, then it's probably not worth the effort.

2. Sometimes they drag her away or they won't stop walking together as a group and she has to keep up with them

As shown by my earlier example, an interested girl will stop to talk to you. If she's still doing what the pack does, she may be interested, but not interested enough.

3. She shows interest but her friend(s) is quietly judging us, and the girl decides to decline my offer because of that pressure.

ASD (anti-slut defense) is definitely a thing, which is why isolating the girl you're interested in is so important. She might want to make out with you right then and there - just not in front of her friends who might call her named if she does. However, if she is interested, she will help you do this - as in, she will separate herself from the c*ckblocking friends. If she is not that interested, she will not.

Understanding game and cold approaching is very much like sales, but requires the correct mentality; your job is not to convince hot girls to be interested in you. Your job is to be able to identify that interest, so you can quickly move on from the ones who lack it, and capitalize on the ones who are.

One last thought, and this may be an unpopular one. At 5'5", assuming you live in America, you will have a much harder time than you would if you were taller. Most women want a taller man because at a psychological level they want to feel like you could protect them. You will likely find it very difficult to seduce women who are not shorter than you.

I don't say this to give you a self-limiting belief, because you absolutely can bang taller women. I just want you to have a realistic set of expectations.

 

[Oatmeal31]

It's what I do/have to do. I play the dating apps and cold approach cute girls I see when I'm out.

Some of this might come off as nitpicking, but I'll see what I can suggest.



I would say something different. "Shoot my shot" puts her in the power position because you sound like you wouldn't expect your "shot" to land. Something like what I said in my example above might work better because you're letting her know you think she's attractive, but you haven't decided whether you like her yet - make her sell herself to you a little bit too.



This might be a little pushy for some women. I'd probably start off lighter first; maybe touch her a little and see if she reciprocates, while gradually escalating. If you're just holding her hand hostage while she does nothing, that's not nearly as effective as you might think it is.



This part is good.



Ok, here's what I would've done differently.

Once you acknowledge and introduce yourself to the friend ignore her completely and focus back on your girl. Go back to what you were doing and let the friend be a third wheel until she finds some other friend at the bar to latch onto, or takes the hint and decides to give you some space.

If your girl is more attentive to the friend than you at this point, she's probably not that interested.

If the friend is still hovering, then what I'd do is suggest you both go to the bar and take a shot - YOU ARE NOT OFFERING TO BUY HER A DRINK, you are offering to buy her a drink with YOU. In most cases she will separate herself from her friend, in which case you can be a little more flirty with her now that she's isolated while you wait for your drink. If the friend sticks with your girl, or worse - your girl brings the friend along, then that friend is probably going to get in the way of any action happening that night - directly or indirectly.

I also wouldn't have put the thought in of a girl's night - I would've told HER - not THEM - that you'd love to show HER around next time.



And here's the self-eject. I would've done what I mentioned above and tried to feel out her interest level; if she seemed down, I'd suggest a "postgame" or something at either of your places. If not, I'd take the number and talk to some other girl.

When you say the "night is early", I'm not sure when you go out, so I'd always suggest 2 hours or so before close is best time. The girls that are at the bars closer to closing are most likely the ones who are single and open to sex that night; they're not going to some other bar or party later and they're not waiting on/meeting their boyfriend out. This is also my suggestion so you don't waste your whole day/night camping out at a bar hoping to get a bite.



Correct. My point is that I wouldn't have known that if I hadn't approached her.

From there, my experience being able to read her interest level and facilitate sex - going for the kiss rather than self-ejecting, for example - is what made her feel comfortable taking me home that night.



Politely, but firmly reiterate that you were asking the girl, and not her friend; "she's a big girl, I'm sure she can speak for herself". If the friend persists and your girl does nothing to curb it or separate from her, then it's probably not worth the effort.



As shown by my earlier example, an interested girl will stop to talk to you. If she's still doing what the pack does, she may be interested, but not interested enough.



ASD (anti-slut defense) is definitely a thing, which is why isolating the girl you're interested in is so important. She might want to make out with you right then and there - just not in front of her friends who might call her named if she does. However, if she is interested, she will help you do this - as in, she will separate herself from the c*ckblocking friends. If she is not that interested, she will not.

Understanding game and cold approaching is very much like sales, but requires the correct mentality; your job is not to convince hot girls to be interested in you. Your job is to be able to identify that interest, so you can quickly move on from the ones who lack it, and capitalize on the ones who are.

One last thought, and this may be an unpopular one. At 5'5", assuming you live in America, you will have a much harder time than you would if you were taller. Most women want a taller man because at a psychological level they want to feel like you could protect them. You will likely find it very difficult to seduce women who are not shorter than you.

I don't say this to give you a self-limiting belief, because you absolutely can bang taller women. I just want you to have a realistic set of expectations.

Thanks for typing this out. I don't know how to section off things to address to make it easier to read

The reason why I came up with "you caught my eye..just had to shoot my shot" as an opener is because I used to always go up and open with a compliment on her appearance instead like you did in your example, and on the off occasion I got a bad reaction it was like rewarding bad behavior, so I stopped that. It also usually closed off the interaction right away, and wouldn't lead to convo nearly as often since it was direct and they would instinctively jump to an excuse right away, with no room for me to work. It's like showing all of your cards imo. If they are receptive, then I pay them the compliment to show intent. Fair?


With the touching, I do the hand hold with a handshake. Usually they pull their hand back after the handshake and slight hold if they're not into it yet. If they don't mind, I can tell, and it normally works out well for me. But I gotcha


Suggesting that we buy drinks together, will definitely try that. Didn't think of that. But if we ditch her friend for a drink and she goes back at some point, I'm thinking her friend would talk **** and try to talk her out of it. Seems like a group of 2 is much harder to separate than one girl from a group of 3+, since they'd have each other.

And yeah, the girl's night was an icebreaker thing in my mind, but stupid to say looking back lol.


With the self-eject part..so the only mistake I made there was not suggesting something like postgame and seeing what could be done that night? So what if I say, hey let's do this at my place, and she responds with, "what about my friend" or "sorry, I can't leave my friend." Then going for the number in that case is the best I can pretty much do right?

It was around 9pm at the time if that matters. Isn't that a bit early for postgame? And it wouldn't be a turnoff if I suggested we do something at her place? I ask because I'm actually staying in an airBNB and can't have another guest over rn. I wouldn't even know how to suggest that because I normally just tell them I'd like to show them something at my place, not theirs. If I just alright suggest sex at hers, that ASD would prob kick in, I'm thinking.

And the last point, yeah it's likely harder but there's nothing I can do about it. It's not something I mind at all, even if that's their reasoning. The hottest girl I ever pulled for a date was a waitress that was actually taller than me. I shoot the ball no matter if they're taller or not, so long as they're attractive so I ain't gonna stop

 

[SW15]

One last thought, and this may be an unpopular one. At 5'5", assuming you live in America, you will have a much harder time than you would if you were taller.

A 5'5" male in the United States is going to have a difficult time.

A 5'5" male is going to need money and/or charisma to get past that.

Race/ethnicity matters somewhat in this too. It is Hispanic and East Asian men to be 5'5" than White men to be 5'5". Hispanic and East Asian women are often shorter and often more accustomed to dealing with shorter men. White women in the USA are often near 5'5" if they are average height themselves. Taller White women (5'6"+) will consider a 5'5" man invisible and some shorter White women believe that they are entitled to a 6'0"+ White male. White women in the USA are known for being heavily pursued and having entitlement issues.

@Oatmeal31 has mentioned Miami before. If he's in Miami, there are more Hispanic women.

 

[SW15]

Seems like a group of 2 is much harder to separate than one girl from a group of 3+, since they'd have each other.

If you are approaching solo in nightlife venues, you are going to want to focus on Groups of 3.

Separating one female in a group of 3 is easier because the other 2 women can interact.

With groups of 4+, these groups are often less serious about sex. Groups of 2 often do well with male groups of 2. Groups of 4+ are often more about female bonding.