Wheat Waffles' Poisoning The Well Idea is Mostly Crap

[SW15]

In this video, Wheat Waffles claims that the effect of Poisoning the Well may affect initial seduction effort more than one's looks.

I disagree.

What is poisoning the well? It's the idea that too much approaching in a particular venue or trying to get laid with too many women in the same social circle carries consequences.

Wheat Waffles gives 2 examples where he was flaked on due to poisoning the well.

1. Wheat approaches a woman in a transit station due to getting strong IOIs as he claims. He gets her number as she's about to board a train. He thinks she is on the train and has left the train station. However, she misses the train, watches him approach another woman. She texts him that she doesn't want to see him again.

2. Wheat is in a Starbucks location and arranges a date with a woman on the spot while also exchanging phone numbers with her. He finds out 30 minutes later that she blocked him. She reported him to Starbucks store management for harassment. He was reported for harassment because a month earlier, Wheat had hit on this woman's friend in that same Starbucks and that friend had rejected him with an IHAB.

Wheat's idea isn't entirely without merit. I've mentioned how poisoning the well can happen within social circles and I still believe in it.

Wheat's 2 incidents happened because Wheat's looks are not top tier.

I have an example of what can happen with a top tier male doing activities that would be poisoning the well.

One of my friends is a 6'4" male who played a country club NCAA sport. Before he got married, he would go to bars and approach nearly every female in the bar that night. His verbal game with mediocre at best but he had his 6'4" height going for him, an above average physique, good facial aesthetics, and status as a former NCAA athlete. Women in the bars didn't care that he was approaching as many women as he could until he got yes responses. This often resulted in same night sex from the bars. It helped him in putting up a triple digit notch count. Poisoning the well didn't happen to him at bars.

Being good looking enough overcomes the so-called poisoning the well effect.

Wheat does acknowledge that poisoning the well is rarer in big city daygame but can be relevant in certain nightlife venues (more relevant in standard bars than clubs).

Any thoughts?

 

[CornbreadFed]

Being good looking enough overcomes the so-called poisoning the well effect

But not everyone is a 6ft 4 college athlete lol. There’s a lot of hobos and MLM scam people approaching people in my area that even I have a mental block for strangers approaching me regardless of gender.

 

[Bingo-Player]

This guy is a Dork

Women cannot stand men that talk in the manner this guy does , the would rather be called Slvts and Hoes

His entire demeanour will be an ICK for a huge majority of normal mainstream women

 

[Barrister]

I mean it isn’t exactly rocket science that if you game a woman and then turn around and immediately game another in her presence her anti-slvt defense is going to kick in and think you’re just going to go for another notch.

On some level she may already know this. But you can’t be THAT brazen and obvious about it or she’ll feel she’s completely expendable. So it’s sort of a “duh” type thing to me - if you’re approaching multiple women make sure you aren’t being obvious about it once you’ve closed on one.

 

[Gamisch]

You're poisoning your own WELL-being by listening to this dork.

 

[Gamisch]

You're poisoning your own WELL-being by listening to this dork.

I'm being dead serious .

Think about it: what does a single man needs nowadays in order to get women? He needs courage ,confidence, believe in himself, and positive results. The last one is the only thing that's NOT 100% within his control but it is extremely important.

WW makes content talking about how it's statistically nearly impossible for the average man to get women . That message will easily take away a man's courage to get those positive results.

I do have to say that I am the type of person who tries to see the trees in the forest. So I do leave the option open that WW is actually a genius, and he hammers down on how important it is to stand out as man . But that takes a more philosophical look at life in general.

You are what you consume. The better bachelor gives me the same vibe even though the Joker's show is a thousand times more entertaining than wheat waffles content and perhaps true some extent. It's alway about how bad women are. Yes women are a huge risk when you are stupid. There are plenty of bad people including bad and evil women.

Yet I fail to understand how that encourages a man who (biologically and instinctively ) feels the urge to connect with women, oftentimes fed by having plenty of great experiences .

 

[Solomon]

You're poisoning your own WELL-being by listening to this dork.

The obsession that blackpillers have with looks is weird.
However that's not the worse thing but it's the self-loathing and hatred they have for men who are successful with women who they justify can only do it through looks, money and status trying to fit all men in a box not understanding that women are whimsical and go of emotions. Most incels are autistic or on the spectrum and have no idea how to elicit a woman's emotions hence they have to resort to arguing about LMS all day.

I'm an average-looking guy some here have even called me ugly in the past when I used to post my pictures in field reports
I have no problem banging women including women above my weight class in looks. If I put in the effort to do so
Before looks and Games, you need confidence
Which most Blackpillers ain't got

Poisoning the well theory is actually a real thing, but in my experience, it's a situational issue. For example, you're at a club mass approaching random women. A woman rejects you or calls you out for approaching other women then trying to talk to her. I have had that happen to me in the past, heck I have even seen my wingmen had this happen. Some women care, some women don't, it all depends on if she is feeling you or not and how you respond to her calling you out (sometimes it's a shyt test if you pass you can get a date/bang I've done this in the past but honestly failed more then succeeded). Women who are highly socially calibrated pay attention not just to the people around them but to their surroundings as well. Women do it at such a cunning level that you would never know that she was checking you out because they know how to keep it discreet. This is why Social mastery is important and for guys who are on the spectrum unfortunately they are severely hampered in that area. Doesn't mean they can't overcome it but it takes shyt ton of work, which most aren't willing to do.

In WW two scenario it could just be bad luck. I'm thinking it could be a combination of both

You seldom hear Wheat Waffles or other blackpillers talk about social mastery because they are not even aware of how imperative it is when it comes to dealing with women hence they use LMS for everything, it's like the blind leading the blind.

 

[Mike32ct]

Back in the day, it was called “over-sarging the venue.”

 

[Solomon]

I'm being dead serious .

Think about it: what does a single man needs nowadays in order to get women? He needs courage ,confidence, believe in himself, and positive results. The last one is the only thing that's NOT 100% within his control but it is extremely important.

WW makes content talking about how it's statistically nearly impossible for the average man to get women . That message will easily take away a man's courage to get those positive results.

I do have to say that I am the type of person who tries to see the trees in the forest. So I do leave the option open that WW is actually a genius, and he hammers down on how important it is to stand out as man . But that takes a more philosophical look at life in general.

You are what you consume. The better bachelor gives me the same vibe even though the Joker's show is a thousand times more entertaining than wheat waffles content and perhaps true some extent. It's alway about how bad women are. Yes women are a huge risk when you are stupid. There are plenty of bad people including bad and evil women.

Yet I fail to understand how that encourages a man who (biologically and instinctively ) feels the urge to connect with women, oftentimes fed by having plenty of great experiences .

This is the issue with Redpill in 2025, it tries to paint women with a broad brush but it doesn't really give you any game outside of looks, or money, status. We can hate on PUA's all day but they understand you need social skills and social mastery. There is a reason Neil Strauss had a number 1 New York Times best seller book or Mystery had his on VH1 television show for 2 years. Social mastery is becoming a lost art, especially among youngers folks. Who don't even have basic social skills. Have you tried talking to the average Gen-Zer? they are awkward, quiet, lack confidence or they are loud, obnoxious, and socially uncalibrated.

Some of us go through that stage and then we learn the term used to be called late bloomers. The art of "Gift of Gab" is something I never hear Redpillers talk about the last one is Roosh V and he isn't around anymore. Now everything is about looks, money, and status but as we know you can have all these things and still fail with women as some guys have posted on this site They have all these and still have to bust out the lotion every night (NEWSFLASH IT'S BECAUSE THEY DO NOT HAVE SOCIAL MASTERY SKILLS, ALL THAT LMS DON'T WORK without charisma, charm, wit and a sense of humor etc)

Social mastery is like Airbending (yes I'm using a cartoon analogy) you gotta practice it and find your quirk. Not everyone will be James Bond, my sense of humor is similar to Michael Scott in the office. However I have learned how to calibrate it around women, some women find me funny some do not it is what it is.

How many of these guys can make a woman laugh within 5 minutes of an interaction? a lot of men can't especially with these Dry-ass red pill YouTubers who never talk or show examples about "Gift of Gab" They have the charm of paint drying.

 

[SW15]

I mean it isn’t exactly rocket science that if you game a woman and then turn around and immediately game another in her presence her anti-slvt defense is going to kick in and think you’re just going to go for another notch.

On some level she may already know this. But you can’t be THAT brazen and obvious about it or she’ll feel she’s completely expendable.

Wheat thought that the woman he just gamed got on a train that left the train station.

That's a mistake that any approacher could make.

Back in the day, it was called “over-sarging the venue.”

That's more of an issue for normie tier than top tier men. My 6'4", former NCAA athlete friend did not have an issue with doing too many approaches in a venue.

Poisoning the well theory is actually a real thing, but in my experience, it's a situational issue.

That would be close to my own viewpoint on the topic of it.

There is a reason Neil Strauss had a number 1 New York Times best seller book or Mystery had his on VH1 television show for 2 years. Social mastery is becoming a lost art, especially among youngers folks. Who don't even have basic social skills. Have you tried talking to the average Gen-Zer? they are awkward, quiet, lack confidence or they are loud, obnoxious, and socially uncalibrated.

Social skills have declined in the last 2 generations (Gen Y/Millennials and Gen Z).

Neil Strauss (born 1969) and Mystery (born 1971) are early Generation X'ers. Roosh V (born 1979) is a late Generation X'er.

Strauss and Mystery were mainly teaching Generation X men to seduce. Roosh had late Generation X'ers and earlier Millennials as his primary audience.

While Gen Y/Millennials were never known for their social skills, their social skills are generally superior to Generation Z's social skills. Advancing technology didn't arrive until early adulthood for a lot of Millennials, especially the earlier Millennials.

Early Millennials were still doing stuff with tech as young adults that would have been considered odd even to Generation X'ers. In my freshman year of college (2001-2002 school year), it was a common practice to send AOL Instant Messenger messages (a predecessor of texting) to those in the same dorm or outside that dorm. In 2001-2002, flip and candy bar phones were becoming more popular, but most of us freshmen were still using landlines.

Millennials are only slightly more socially calibrated than Generation Z. There are plenty of 30 and early 40 something Millennials running around the mating market that have social skills gaps that wouldn't have been expected from someone their age in the 1990s-2000s.

 

[Solomon]

Millennials are only slightly more socially calibrated than Generation Z. There are plenty of 30 and early 40 something Millennials running around the mating market that have social skills gaps that wouldn't have been expected from someone their age in the 1990s-2000s.

I don't disagree with you on that I guess you would argue to each it's own. I have been fortunate enough to run with a guy that was good-looking and was running "Hitch" game naturally, look at the video for example below

Most guys myself included will never have that High level of Social mastery IQ. Although I have had nights where I literally did or said shyt and wondered how I came up with that. My best night gaming ever was when I was able to pull a 3some with 2 girls at the club the same night with 2 pretty white girls. The game I was pulling was just flowing naturally. I can't explain it but it was like I was in a zone and the women could feel it. To this day I have tried to replicate that night. However I have not. It was a night where I was just in the zone and it was effortles. Most guys who talk to women are very basic and predictable. Don't belive me, create a fake female profile on a popular dating app and you will see 90% of the messages are "hey How are you doing today?" or "Hey whats up"

My point is I don't see Gen-Z talking about how to flirt, how talk to women, how to be charming etc compared to men 10-20 years ago. Now all the rhetoric is the same about LMS(or onlyfans thots) and it's boring. The Chad/Tyrone's etc I know, have "Gift Of Gab" that is natural. I know a guy @SW15 you would call him ugly looking but he pulls smokeshows&stunners because he just knows how to talk to women and speak womanesse i.e. flirt, innuendo, wit etc. However, when you hang around the guy long enough you understand why he pulls stunners. He is funny, has wit, and just an overall cool guy that women wanna hang around with. I remember even when he had a girlfriend women would blow up his phone on a Friday night wanting to hang out with him. I don't get that vibe from WW

Most Redpillers and all Blackpillers don't wanna acknowledge that this matters but it does, even a good-looking dude with a bad mouthpiece will get shut down by women. Looks get you in the door and can get you laid but looks alone won't keep a woman around long term especially if she has other options. Eliciting women's emotions is a real thing, why do you think so many women stick around guys that cause "Drama"? it makes women excited to have a guy that can take her on a emotional rollercoaster.

Another thing about looks to many guys project what they find attractive. Women are attracted to men that you wouldn't think women are attracted to(like my buddy above or even myself). Heck one week a woman might be attracted to buff ripped guys next week she is attracted to chubby guys or dad bods. IF you think I'm lying there are studies that have been done that women's taste in men changes when they are on and off their periods.

 

[Gamisch]

.



That's more of an issue for normie tier than top tier men. My 6'4", former NCAA athlete friend did not have an issue with doing too many approaches in a venue.

My 5,4 skinny Asian home boy also never had that issue. ..


Imo your focus is too much on stats. But women are not stats, they're individuals with different tastes that vary from time to time.

I've seen Indian, Asian, Arab ,black and white dudes kill it with the ladies. You can even put skinny ,fat ,short, bald and /or broke in front of all of them. Similarly like I've seen all those versions beat people up. Why? Because they have courage!


Weath waffle is a smart dude tho; his acronym is WW ,what could stand for win-win because he wina either way. He either wins the girl, or he wins the view(er). Or both... his core audience on the other hand..they lose BIG time. Think about the amount of men that turned blackpill because if this dude...

 

[BPH]

Poisoning the well is definitely a thing. I've experienced it several times at the college bars I used to frequent.

It makes sense - everybody wants to feel special. Think about the opposite scenario.

If you saw a really hot girl going around the bar making out with every guy she talked to, by the time she got to you you might not be so interested.

Looks definitely afford you a lot of leeway with this, and I'm sure there are girls who use it as more of an "out" to substitute whatever their real reason for rejecting you is, but it's definitely a thing and why it's usually good to not become a regular - at least not at the same days and times.

 

[CornbreadFed]

I know, have "Gift Of Gab" that is natural. I know a guy @SW15 you would call him ugly looking but he pulls smokeshows&stunners because he just knows how to talk to women and speak womanesse i.e. flirt, innuendo, wit etc. However, when you hang around the guy long enough you understand why he pulls stunners. He is funny, has wit, and just an overall cool guy that women wanna hang around with. I remember even when he had a girlfriend women would blow up his phone on a Friday night wanting to hang out with him. I don't get that vibe from WW

Facts, most guys good with women are just comfortable with themselves which does not come off as fake to women.

 

[CornbreadFed]

I think we started heading towards an Asian style introvert society after the 2008 crisis. This is when people started becoming less open with the decline of third place spaces, clubs, and etc. We are expected work more for less with higher expectations…not the perfect ingredients for a sociable society.

 

[Pandora]

I used to spam hit on women in bars/clubs my whole 20s. A women would see me get rejected by another chick and she would still give me her number or hook up.

If a girl is really feeling you then there is very little you can do to mess it up.

This is assuming that the rejection is a subtle rejection and not a drink in your face.

 

[Pandora]

To be fair poisoning the well is the only way to consistently get hook ups from the bar. Its a numbers game. I would hit on about 20 women to get 1 ons/make out.

Ive heard that those RSD boys would also just spam approach.

As a salesman if you are converting even 5% of leads you are doing good.

Every good PUA will tell you the same. I am horrible with inner game but I am the best at picking up random girls. I can do it with the best of them. I am telling you now that you have to hit on almost every girl.

If you sit back looking cute nothinh gonna happen unless you look like Tyson Beckford.

 

[SW15]

I used to spam hit on women in bars/clubs my whole 20s.

RSD boys would also just spam approach.

The nightclub environment has the least penalty for spam approaching. Bars are somewhat more than pure nightclub but still not that much of a penalty. It would depend on the individual bar. Some bar have more of an approaching culture than others.

My 6'4", former NCAA athlete in a country club sport friend would likely have been considered a spam approacher.

When he was single, he was an above average marketer. He understood that his look would be most attractive with bougie White women. He focused on going to bars where bougie White women tended to congregate. He tended to get more same night sex with bougie White women than longer term relationships from bougie White women. That might have been by design for a while as I think he was more focused on sex than extended relationships.

Poisoning the well is definitely a thing. I've experienced it several times at the college bars I used to frequent.

Looks definitely afford you a lot of leeway with this, and I'm sure there are girls who use it as more of an "out" to substitute whatever their real reason for rejecting you is, but it's definitely a thing and why it's usually good to not become a regular - at least not at the same days and times.

It's good to mix up approach venues, in both daygame and nightgame.

Most big cities have a few different areas where a man could do approaches.

The grocery store has been my most successful approach venue over time. I have always emphasized doing grocery store approaches at different grocery store locations.

I have primarily chosen one mall for my mall approaches over time but have sparingly used mall approaching. I made sure not to poison that mall well. With as big as that mall is, it would be difficult to poison the well.

 

[Solomon]

To be fair poisoning the well is the only way to consistently get hook ups from the bar. Its a numbers game. I would hit on about 20 women to get 1 ons/make out.

Ive heard that those RSD boys would also just spam approach.

As a salesman if you are converting even 5% of leads you are doing good.

Every good PUA will tell you the same. I am horrible with inner game but I am the best at picking up random girls. I can do it with the best of them. I am telling you now that you have to hit on almost every girl.

If you sit back looking cute nothinh gonna happen unless you look like Tyson Beckford.

I use to go out with an RSD guy(I've mentioned him a lot in other posts in past threads), the guy would spam approach constantly he never socialized unless he was talking to a woman. Eventually, I had to drop him because the guy was a leech. PUA's who are "social robots"(meaning all they know is game that's their whole life) Make great wingmen for a night or two but are boring guys outside of chasing ***** they have nothing going on in their lives. Jesse Pinkman brought this up and I think it's true. The guys I've met on this site in the past even if they didn't have their whole lives together had hobbies at least outside of chasing *****. RSD guys were a whole different breed back in the day

The one thing I will give RSD guys props is those guys hit the field and whining and complaining was frowned upon well until the last 2 years of the existence of their forum anyway. From 2008-2012 where the golden days of RSD. The field reports were on a another level (pictures,videos etc) Those guys where hardcore gamers

 

[SW15]

the guy would spam approach constantly he never socialized unless he was talking to a woman.

Do you think he ever poisoned the well with spam approaching? If he was doing it in nightlife venues, it is more difficult to poison the game.

The one thing I will give RSD guys props is those guys hit the field and whining and complaining was frowned upon well until the last 2 years of the existence of their forum anyway. From 2008-2012 where the golden days of RSD. The field reports were on a another level (pictures,videos etc) Those guys where hardcore gamers

There isn't the same approaching culture anymore. Swiping has replaced a lot of approaching.

There are guys now who will swipe thousands of times in a short period.