Do men even care anymore?

[Gamisch]

I don't think I have any friends who have gone that route, funnily enough.
I can think of one who banged really hot teenage Eastern European hookers every weekend before 'brexit' though lol. But never moved countries to exploit their white privilege.

But most really just seem to not be too bothered! They just spend a tonne of time doing other things, I guess as a kind of replacement. Travelling, porn, video games, jujitsu, gym, porn, football (soccer to most of you), pub nights, working overtime at their jobs, porn etc.

As I say, they arent' willing to do what I do/did to get laid as someone who didn't hit the genetic lottery (which was basically to approach a TONNE of girls and thus increase your odds of 'getting lucky'. Don't forget that cold approach is just tinder in person.)

Most of them would at least get laid from time to time with probably slightly chubby/older women if only they would approach a tonne and eat lots of rejections, but they don't seem to want that. They prefer to go without. Maybe they're hoping to get reincarnated as a good looking tall guy with a lantern jaw and great cheekbones and a great head of hair in their 'next life'! lol

If only we played Fussball together...Men tend to isolate and indeed pursue all those hobbies you mentioned. One of my homies been like that for many many years. I had to cut contact temporarily,because I can FUGGING stand that.. " defeated energy " all the time. Kinda prejudice, but we all have our flaws.

Sometimes you just wanna share philosophies about women or even talk about how the p00sy smelled, but you can feel the uncomfortable jealousy. Why discuss dating with a man who hasn't been on a date in YEARS? Going out also doesn't work, because that one time per year homeboy wants to get out won't cut it ofcourse. It's unnerving to babysit your friends while going out.

As you say, all these men were married lived together ect. But those women did a number on them. All cliché but EXTREMELY dirty shyte. Like cucking one( aka the OPEN RELATIONSHIP where she brings home new dude every weekend while the man just...has to take it). The latter can and will destroy a man for life.

 

[Gamisch]

I don't think I have any friends who have gone that route, funnily enough.
I can think of one who banged really hot teenage Eastern European hookers every weekend before 'brexit' though lol. But never moved countries to exploit their white privilege.

But most really just seem to not be too bothered! They just spend a tonne of time doing other things, I guess as a kind of replacement. Travelling, porn, video games, jujitsu, gym, porn, football (soccer to most of you), pub nights, working overtime at their jobs, porn etc.

As I say, they arent' willing to do what I do/did to get laid as someone who didn't hit the genetic lottery (which was basically to approach a TONNE of girls and thus increase your odds of 'getting lucky'. Don't forget that cold approach is just tinder in person.)

Most of them would at least get laid from time to time with probably slightly chubby/older women if only they would approach a tonne and eat lots of rejections, but they don't seem to want that. They prefer to go without. Maybe they're hoping to get reincarnated as a good looking tall guy with a lantern jaw and great cheekbones and a great head of hair in their 'next life'! lol

The harsh reality of today. One is married to his cousin( tries to hide this obviously)from a third world shytehole been married like 4 monthsand we havent spoken since...and another one is about to get married to a Pina including all the bs such as paying ALL of her bills ect. Another thing right? Men get a sniff of the Vgg and poof, they gone.

But yeah..I can at least respect them for trying I guess? I've always been the type of man who needs to align and rewire my mind correctly and somehow someway a woman will come( although oftentimes NOT the type I really want!). These men don't believe in this anymore. I am from south America ,but the last thing on my mind is to take a Jezebel from the homeland and bring her here to Europe!

 

[AmsterdamAssassin]

This is about ROI. When the return on investment is low, people don't try to improve but just stop investing. Or they change how they invest (going the dating app rout exclusively), think the ROI is better until they find out that the women are not who they purport to be, get disappointed, stop investing in themselves at all and just become 'victims' complaining like senior citizens about how life was so much better / easier twenty years ago.

As I say, they arent' willing to do what I do/did to get laid as someone who didn't hit the genetic lottery

Most guys nowadays want convenience.

Don't forget that cold approach is just tinder in person

If that were true, a lot of guys would be cold approaching, not swiping on apps.

I can give you a list of the excuses on this board to prefer swipe apps over cold approaching:
If you fail on swipe apps, nobody notices except you (and Match dot com who will encourage you to increase your chances by subscribing), your failure to seduce the girl will be public.
On swipe apps you can hid your mediocre looks behind filters and selective photos, and write yourself a great introduction in a witty profile that you can keep refining without a deadline. In cold approaching, you have to think on your feet and improvise and you have to make sure you look your best. You can just check out potential dates while you take a crap.
On swipe apps you 'know' the women are looking for someone, in cold approach you risk spending time and effort on a potential date who turns out to be unavailable.
And on swipe apps you only have to appear handsome / interesting, in cold approaches you have to be handsome / interesting.

 

[characternote]

If that were true, a lot of guys would be cold approaching, not swiping on apps.

I was talking more in regards to her selection process (e.g she basically decides yes or no the second she lays eyes on you)

I agree that cold approach is of course harder and take more guts and every other point you made

I almost exclusively cold approach, personally. But that's more to do with a mixture of my lifestyle (I get my fun by going out and socialising with friends which is where of course I notice very pretty young girls who I then try my luck with) as well as the fact that I think I got shadow banned on tinder and stuff for having multiple profiles of myself and i've never been able to fix it since (and refuse to buy a new phone with new sim etc to get around it)

 

[Gamisch]

This is about ROI. When the return on investment is low, people don't try to improve but just stop investing. Or they change how they invest (going the dating app rout exclusively), think the ROI is better until they find out that the women are not who they purport to be, get disappointed, stop investing in themselves at all and just become 'victims' complaining like senior citizens about how life was so much better / easier twenty years ago.


Most guys nowadays want convenience.


If that were true, a lot of guys would be cold approaching, not swiping on apps.

I can give you a list of the excuses on this board to prefer swipe apps over cold approaching:
If you fail on swipe apps, nobody notices except you (and Match dot com who will encourage you to increase your chances by subscribing), your failure to seduce the girl will be public.
On swipe apps you can hid your mediocre looks behind filters and selective photos, and write yourself a great introduction in a witty profile that you can keep refining without a deadline. In cold approaching, you have to think on your feet and improvise and you have to make sure you look your best. You can just check out potential dates while you take a crap.
On swipe apps you 'know' the women are looking for someone, in cold approach you risk spending time and effort on a potential date who turns out to be unavailable.
And on swipe apps you only have to appear handsome / interesting, in cold approaches you have to be handsome / interesting.

It's not tinder in real life. In real life your pool is significantly smaller for starters.

That's also a huge difference between men and women by the way. Men as you said , want convenience. That also means not too far away if possible. No man LOVES to travel to the other side of the country to MAYBE sleep with an hb3 If the hb3 is around the corner on the other hand... whereas a woman won't mind that distance if she decided that she wants that specific man.

Great point by the way: online you can pretend,in real you can't.

 

[AmsterdamAssassin]

Great point by the way: online you can pretend,in real you can't.

And neither can women pretend in real life to be smarter or better looking. What you see is what you get, mostly unfiltered. And women cannot just swipe you to the left because you're shorter than their preference.

Another advantage is that you can see the red flags much earlier, before you invest too much time, so you can curtail the approach if she reveals dealbreakers (smelling bad, speaking with a 'mouse-in-a-blender' voice, whining, pouting, bratty/princess behaviour) that you wouldn't notice on swipe apps.

In real life your pool is significantly smaller for starters.

Agreed, but you can choose the pool you want to fish in. It's better fishing in a pool with five delicious fish than in a sea filled with bottom feeders. My pool is Amsterdam. And I know my way around this pool like the back of my hand. I don't go hungry or thirsty.

Another example:
I'd rather go to a quality restaurant and choose my dinner from five gastronomic options, than sit at home and make a choice between twenty food delivery services having fifty dinner options that you know will not live up to their description.
A lot of men prefer the convenience of ordering food and since they have low standards and consider food 'fuel', they don't seem to mind that the convenience comes with lukewarm noodles and undercooked meat.
And then they complain on this forum that they can't seem to get gastronomic dinners when ordering food online. And they agitate against anyone who has no complaints about dinner because they go to restaurants.
And misery loves company, so they don't only complain about the quality of the food, they know someone who knew someone who got an actual gastronomic meal ordering food online. So, it is possible to get gastronomic food online. There is still hope that they don't have to get dressed and go out to a restaurant. They haven't succeeded finding any gastronomic dinners online, but that doesn't mean it isn't there. You just have to believe. And try out different ways to order online.
And they lambast people for going to restaurants. The fools who don't get that you can order great food online. Not that they got great food online, but comparatively to the effort that you put into it, it wasn't bad. And they probably just have to find a way around the algorithms or apply a better technique to get better food online. Here's another YouTube video proving that it's possible.
And then a virus breaks out and the government tells you not to go outside anymore and to order food. Hahaha, now the food ordering men have the advantage. They know where to order great food. Well, good food. What, yours is mediocre? What's happening?
Well, the swipe app food ordering cannot handle the sudden influx of all these extra orders, so the quality of the food suffers even more. Meanwhile, the gastronomic restaurant go bankrupt one by one and have to close their doors. So, the market poisons itself and now there are no more gastronomic dinners and you have to go back to making your own dinner if you want quality food.

And the good cooks are already in relationships.

 

[CornbreadFed]

And neither can women pretend in real life to be smarter or better looking. What you see is what you get, mostly unfiltered. And women cannot just swipe you to the left because you're shorter than their preference.

Another advantage is that you can see the red flags much earlier, before you invest too much time, so you can curtail the approach if she reveals dealbreakers (smelling bad, speaking with a 'mouse-in-a-blender' voice, whining, pouting, bratty/princess behaviour) that you wouldn't notice on swipe apps.

There's been countless times where I have seen hot women in public that seemed overall normal and interesting. However, I would see them walk back to their busted up trashed Nissan Rogues or they go fill their cart with junk/plan b pills.

 

[Solomon]

the second part of your response almost read like a man with a job, own place, not fat is entitled to have their pick in those places… which may be part of a self perpetuating cycle… it might be a misinterpretation on my part…

The crude reality I see out there is that unless you come from money, you’ll have to grind for money, put in the effort to build a “presence” that can actually attract a woman (notice I’m saying just one woman for starters), and even then nothing is granted. Human nature is futile and transient as individuals, but then it seems a constant that the 0.0001% will keep playing the masses for profit. And I mean it in all aspects of life.

and while this might seem off topic, I believe it’s relevant to the fact that this generation over-focus on how hard we have it, instead of focusing on doing and either failing or succeeding, and just keep grinding to the bitter end, enjoying the little things.

The 2nd part was to make fun of the LMS guys who claims you can't get Smokeshows without LMS. Those guys tend have limited beliefs which are projections on their reality.

Good qualities don’t entitle you to a mate. Without that natural chemistry, it’s not going to work. You can be the best looking, nicest, accomplished person, have great conversations, and still not find anyone who is a match. This is the reality the LMS guys can't factor in this is why outliers exist i.e.the nerdy guy with the hot chick, the fat guy with the hot chick, the broke guy with the hot chick etc.

 

[SW15]

what type of women do you generally go for?

Fit White women

yeah this is your problem. You are going for the top of the food chain and I’m assuming you don’t resemble a Chad bro in business.

I am a semi-successful White male. The first post of the thread below describes me well.

Women Don't Want a Semi-Successful Man

Men in this category, $75k-$125k salary, relatively in shape, drive a good car, has a few hobbies, women do not want. Why? Because this man has standards. Women do not want to work for their men. Women of today want a simp or a millionaire. Simple as that. This is what society aka social media...

www.sosuave.net

This is why I say I'm a small to medium sized fish in big ocean. I have some achievements but there are many times where it doesn't seem enough for cute to hot range women with BMIs in the normal range. Women's standards have been increasing due to their abundance.

I'm also interested in Hispanic women but I tend to run in circles with more bougie White women. I describe bougie White women as White women with a bachelor's degree or higher who hold white collar type jobs.

There's been countless times where I have seen hot women in public that seemed overall normal and interesting. However, I would see them walk back to their busted up trashed Nissan Rogues or they go fill their cart with junk/plan b pills.

I've not seen this when doing grocery store or retail store approaching. I can see this happening at Walmart (I don't approach there), some Kroger brand store locations (I have approached at Kroger), and Target. This is less likely to happen at Whole Foods or Sprouts type stores (also places where I have approached).

This could happen in some mall parking lots too.

Nissans have gone downhill in quality too. The older Nissans used to rival Toyota in quality. I have seen a lot of bad looking Nissans in recent years.

 

[CornbreadFed]

I am a semi-successful White male. The first post of the thread below describes me well.

The women you want tend to only go for the Golden Retriever energy fantasy football socially connected Travis Kelce white bro with the revival masculinity mustache. No offense, but if you were this type of guy then you wouldn't be struggling or on this site. They don't care about the other types of white men. Hell, an African American athlete bro is probably in a better position for these women than you are. The remaining white women that don't have these men locked up by now are never going to settle for anything less until they are nearing 45. This does not mean you are bad, but it does mean that you are shooting your shot at the wrong market. You are trying to sell Burger King to a bunch of Trader Joes shoppers essentially.

 

[Ricky]

The women you want tend to only go for the Golden Retriever energy fantasy football socially connected Travis Kelce white bro with the revival masculinity mustache. No offense, but if you were this type of guy then you wouldn't be struggling or on this site. They don't care about the other types of white men. Hell, an African American athlete bro is probably in a better position for these women than you are. The remaining white women that don't have these men locked up by now are never going to settle for anything less until they are nearing 45. This does not mean you are bad, but it does mean that you are shooting your shot at the wrong market. You are trying to sell Burger King to a bunch of Trader Joes shoppers essentially.

Does the golden retriever energy work long term? I kind of think its good for opening with and high energy is always good since there are so many lazy people but it needs to be modulated.. especially since a lot of women now are particularly low energy.

 

[CornbreadFed]

Does the golden retriever energy work long term? I kind of think its good for opening with and high energy is always good since there are so many lazy people but it needs to be modulated.. especially since a lot of women now are particularly low energy.

It does work long term, but golden retriever energy is something you cannot genuinely fake. These guys grew up with everything handed to them on a silver platter because of their early blooming genetics/status alone and the energy stems from that. Yes, these guys might let themselves go later, but that foundation core will always be there. As opposed to us, we were more than likely late bloomers, so we are always going to have that "vibe" about us that prevents us from developing Golden Retriever energy regardless of our status. Think of the Baltic States/Poland vs Western Europe. Yes, they are doing better and rising up in wealth now, but they will always have that Eastern European touch to them that they will never be able to drop.

 

[Ricky]

It does work long term, but golden retriever energy is something you cannot genuinely fake. These guys grew up with everything handed to them on a silver platter because of their early blooming genetics/status alone and the energy stems from that. Yes, these guys might let themselves go later, but that foundation core will always be there. As opposed to us, we were more than likely late bloomers, so we are always going to have that "vibe" about us that prevents us from developing Golden Retriever energy regardless of our status. Think of the Baltic States/Poland vs Western Europe. Yes, they are doing better and rising up in wealth now, but they will always have that Eastern European touch to them that they will never be able to drop.

I was the youngest of the family so kind of have been the entertainer, but i'm am ambivert and my introverted half requires a recharge. I can definitely be the golden retriever but i've found it can overwhelm lower energy women who are very interested at first.

Its an interesting balance. My joke is that i'm an introvert that is one drink away from being an extrovert.. and that drink can either be a cup of coffee or a beer.

 

[SW15]

The women you want tend to only go for the Golden Retriever energy fantasy football socially connected Travis Kelce white bro with the revival masculinity mustache.

Golden Retriever energy does play well with bougie, fit White women.

My highest notch count friend who I have mentioned on here is the perfect example of Golden Retriever energy. Another friend is a passable Golden Retriever energy guy.

I am not known as a Golden Retriever energy guy. I'm not surly and unfriendly but I'm not the most outgoing person either. There's a reason I identify with the lone wolf, sigma male type and why that is my avatar on SoSuave.

In November 2023, Courtney Ryan did a video about a mid 30 something woman who believes she is entitled to a woman with Travis Kelce energy. If a mid 30 something woman is seeking Travis Kelce energy, then it's a sign that a part of the single female market is delusional.

Females being delusional with their demands is why there are more men checking out of the dating market, which is what this thread is about. Females are demanding too much and rejecting too many men. A lot of men are opting out of the dating market after taking too many rejections. I have not opted out of the market. I've had some successes (will get into that in a moment) but also taken a lot of rejections from some mid women.

No offense, but if you were this type of guy then you wouldn't be struggling or on this site.

I have had successes that some men would like to have. I have a 30+ lifetime notch count with some longer term relationships mixed into that. That's an above average lifetime seduction resume. At the same time, I have experienced a lot of rejection and difficulty to achieve that. Roosh even talked about how he had taken a ridiculous amount of rejection in the field. I believe that I've had to put up with too much nonsense in order to achieve what I've achieved on notch count.

There are also some higher notch count guys on this site, including one living with his parents with a 90+ notch count.

They don't care about the other types of white men.

This might have merit. Why do you think bougie, fit White women are only into a very specific type of White male while trashing the rest of White males? It's the Golden Retriever energy guy you described above that is most in demand.

Hell, an African American athlete bro is probably in a better position for these women than you are.

When I was in college, I noticed that it was more challenging to compete for pussie with African American college football and college basketball players on campus.

I don't run in the same circles as the African American pro athletes for the Dallas pro sports teams (primarily the Cowboys and Mavericks). I have not considered them as significant of competition for pussie as other White guys.

There are also some ex-college football and ex-college basketball players running around Dallas. These are guys who never made it to the NFL or NBA.

The remaining white women that don't have these men locked up by now are never going to settle for anything less until they are nearing 45. This does not mean you are bad, but it does mean that you are shooting your shot at the wrong market. You are trying to sell Burger King to a bunch of Trader Joes shoppers essentially.

Feminism has been promoting the idea to women of "Never Settle!" since the 1960s. It took a while for that message to sink in with women. The Millennial snowflake females born in the 1980s and raised in the 1990s/early 2000s believe the "Never Settle!" mantra. Late Gen X women (the 45-54 year olds of today) somewhat took that message to heart, but not to the extent of what you're seeing with the aging 1981-1989 born Millennial women, especially Millennial White women. I've mainly been interacting with 1980s born Millennial women over the years, but have noticed more interactions with early 1990s Millennial women in more recent years.

I'm not bad. I've kept my BMI in the normal range throughout my life. I exercise regularly and play sports. I have an advanced degree and an above average and above median salary. The semi-successful man description from that thread is applicable to me.

I'm not Burger King tier with those qualifications. You would have a stronger case if you said I was Kroger brand tier or Albertsons brand tier (see links below) and I was targeting Trader Joe's/Sprouts types. Burger King tier would be below average income and only a high school diploma. However, women's standards today are often so exaggerated that it is possible that some women might call me Burger King tier even though I'm not Burger King tier by a reasonable standard. There is data out there that has demonstrated that women rate 80% of men below average on looks, which is not mathematically possible.

Kroger - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

Albertsons - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

 

[The Duke]

I just wanted to say I don't have any complaints. Its all good times. I'm getting older, but they aren't! I put in the work and did the time to be where I'm at. Its never been easier. I hope you guys are blessed with pu$$y next year and pipeman gets all those virgins he dreams of.

 

[CornbreadFed]

I'm not Burger King tier with those qualifications. You would have a stronger case if you said I was Kroger brand tier or Albertsons brand tier (see links below) and I was targeting Trader Joe's/Sprouts types. Burger King tier would be below average income and only a high school diploma. However, women's standards today are often so exaggerated that it is possible that some women might call me Burger King tier even though I'm not Burger King tier by a reasonable standard. There is data out there that has demonstrated that women rate 80% of men below average on looks, which is not mathematically possible.

Lol it was an analogy. YOU are not burger King tier @SW15 . All I am trying to say is that the most sought after white women seem to want only go for Chads and the golden retriever dudes and refuse to settle for less. It does not make them better than you, but it is just what these women want. There's other white women and women in general that will happily go for the German Shephard, Border Collie, Siberian Huskey, and etc energy over the golden retriever energy. Cities like Dallas, Texas and Nashville, TN are just Chuckee Cheese Ball Pit playgrounds for Golden Retriever guys and there's really not much we can do about it.

I have had successes that some men would like to have. I have a 30+ lifetime notch count with some longer term relationships mixed into that. That's an above average lifetime seduction resume. At the same time, I have experienced a lot of rejection and difficulty to achieve that. Roosh even talked about how he had taken a ridiculous amount of rejection in the field. I believe that I've had to put up with too much nonsense in order to achieve what I've achieved on notch count.

I think a guy's notch count level stops after 10-15 girls because at that point it is not that hard to get sex. A high smv guy isn't a virgin, but has the ability to have high quality women respect and pursue him. For example, there's no reason for me go out and up my notch count right now. I would rather focus on other things that bring me more value that would also make me appear more attractive to younger women or whomever. The guy I know with the highest notch count (100 plus) has been in a lot of failed relationships and witnessed horrible things like walking in to his GF blowing another guy and watching her wife his stuff off her face to seeing his ex fiance get fvcked in a porta potty. You can have a high notch count but still have a miserable time with women if you just exploit sloots and lower quality women in general.

 

[AmsterdamAssassin]

Females being delusional with their demands is why there are more men checking out of the dating market, which is what this thread is about. Females are demanding too much and rejecting too many men. A lot of men are opting out of the dating market after taking too many rejections. I have not opted out of the market. I've had some successes (will get into that in a moment) but also taken a lot of rejections from some mid women.

The thing is, checking out of a corrupted dating market isn't the worst strategy when dealing with delusional women. Everyone has demands and wishes (except for the thirsty men who will f*ck everything with a hole and a pulse), but it's a red flag (both for men and women) when these demands far exceeds their 'market value'.
Problems is the thirsty guys who have no boundaries or standards as long as they can empty their nutsack.

I just wanted to say I don't have any complaints. Its all good times. I'm getting older, but they aren't! I put in the work and did the time to be where I'm at. Its never been easier.

That's the crux of the matter. You put in the work, you do the time, you have self-esteem, boundaries and standards. And when you reach that stage, then women are not automatically 'in' but have to qualify in order to join.

 

[jhonny9546]

I mean this video perfectly explains the struggles of someone who can't love themselves and, consequently, cannot accept love from others.

This is the case of many men going MGTOW because majority of women grown up in the capitalism era, had their parents absent in their life, and cannot love themselves.

I can see this daily in my sister's relationships and those of some friends.

But, one simple question arises, since we cannot categorize every woman as a cluster B or Borderline: can these individuals actually change permanently for the better? Learn to love themselves?

 

[SW15]

Cities like Dallas, Texas and Nashville, TN are just Chuckee Cheese Ball Pit playgrounds for Golden Retriever guys and there's really not much we can do about it.

I think that Golden Retriever energy phenomenon tends to be more of a thing in the Southeast and Texas big cities. Dallas, Nashville, and Atlanta are the biggest cities where that plays well.

When I lived in Phoenix (a Sun Belt city, but more influenced by Southern California), I didn't notice it as much.

Bougie, White women in Dallas tend to go for what I've called cookie cutter White guys. These are more outgoing White guys with lighter features.

Motorcycle riding, nightclub/strip club bouncers in Dallas do not have Golden Retriever energy and they manage to get laid. Those guys tend to get laid with strippers and female bartenders.

All I am trying to say is that the most sought after white women seem to want only go for Chads and the golden retriever dudes and refuse to settle for less. It does not make them better than you, but it is just what these women want. There's other white women and women in general that will happily go for the German Shephard, Border Collie, Siberian Huskey, and etc energy over the golden retriever energy.

In Dallas, I have not always gone for the most sought after White women. I have gone for some Average to Cute range women (around 5.5-7). Some of these women can present with attitude problems. I haven't been shooting too high on my targets over time.

The guy I know with the highest notch count (100 plus) has been in a lot of failed relationships and witnessed horrible things like walking in to his GF blowing another guy and watching her wife his stuff off her face to seeing his ex fiance get fvcked in a porta potty. You can have a high notch count but still have a miserable time with women if you just exploit sloots and lower quality women in general.

That sounds quite bad. I know another high notch count guy who has mainly dated batshiit crazy women that he's met on dating websites and dating apps over the years. He's dealt with some high drama type unpleasant situations.

 

[Chow Mein]

I just wanted to say I don't have any complaints. Its all good times. I'm getting older, but they aren't! I put in the work and did the time to be where I'm at. Its never been easier. I hope you guys are blessed with pu$$y next year and pipeman gets all those virgins he dreams of.

Cheers to you, brotha!