Punishing bad behavior gone too far / done wrong?

[Randolph]

Hi there!

I have a question regarding punishing behavior in a relationship.

I have been reading a lot about stating what you are dissatisfied with, enforcing a boundary and withdrawing attention. I’m not sure if I’m doing it too harshly or bad women just make it worse when you do it.

on the contrary I have a friend who have a long term relationship that is actually successful, he’s read all the rp stuff and he’s not one of those “happy wife happy life dudes” he’s told me that I need to cut that **** out and take the leader role in conflict to adress it and resolve it in a quick manner as possible.

I’ve tried both methods and found that his one is the most successful however I still have this withdrawing behavior ingrained and tend to resort to it when I get really annoyed.

let me give you an example. A girl and I have dated for a year or so, we’ve had a lot of conflict due to me enforcing and putting down boundaries but it has yielded positive results. (One can argue if it was worth the time tho)

One conflict in particular has been around she’s been storing a lot of stuff at my moms. We’ve had an agreement that the things should have been gone 6 months ago. She has been putting it off and ignoring some of my moms texts and other times she’s responded but things have always come up and it has been put of.

last week we had agreed to go there and start moving the stuff. I made a plan and asked her multiple times to contact a place where we could drop stuff off for auction.
The day comes and we have agreed to follow my plan and then go on a small staycation when we were done.
Adding here that she has a bad habit of dropping bad news/ changes last minute.

she calls me first thing in the morning and says we can’t go to the action place because I haven’t spoken to them. I respond with “how?? I’ve been on your ass about this for days”
“You better call them asap”

ends up with “we can’t show up there today”

I get really annoyed and tell her “we’ve made a plan for days and it’s just not time to delay this **** anymore, this does not fly. Your not respecting my time nor my mother by continuously putting this of”

she’s reaping with “you just love to get angry about stuff don’t you”

me: “nope I hate it but of course people react negatively when you disrespect their time.”

we don’t say much on the way there, I help out with some small stuff and says let’s get out of here.

I drive her home and say something along the lines of “glad we got the ball rolling atleast, we’ll keep in touch”

this is not the conversation verbatim but you get the picture.

Staycation cancelled of course.
part of me feels that I overreacted and stepped on my own **** for cancelling everything and ignoring her for days.

anyway, I didn’t direct my anger towards her but this type of disrespectful behavior towards my time and my mother really got to me and she hadn’t really been adding to the + account lately either so I was actually seething for a good 2 days.

this was Thursday and I didn’t reach out at all. Saturday night she sends some instagram post about relationships which I ignore. On Monday she calls me and asks “why the hell haven’t you called me?”
“I guess you don’t care and you can pick your **** up here I’m done with beeing ignored”

I responded
“I’ll pass your place on the way, I’ll grab em right away”

her “it’s so easy for you, you would do that without any afterthought?!” And hung up.

adding to that prior in the conversation I said I was angry and disappointed with you but ignoring you for 4 days is uncalled for.

Of course it’s hard to judge this based on one instance but I somehow feel that this way of attention withdrawal works better when dating than in a relationship or am I doing it wrong?

How do you deal with this attention withdrawal in relationships? Did I do too much to fast.

my friend would have told me to adress the ****ty behavior when it happened, which I did. And then instantly resolved it. Prolly would have been better but I want you guys take.

she has obviously been really hurt by this and the times I’ve done it before.
“I’ve been in so much pain, I’ve had pain in parts I didn’t know existed and this made me physically ill”

Anyway, she says the way I acted showed her that I don’t value her and the relationship and therefore it’s over.

I want your thoughts on my reaction, did I go too far?

also the beta in me was seething like “she should be sorry, this is so disrespectful I can’t believe she hasn’t called to apologize “

 

[BackInTheGame78]

Trying to make someone respect you when they don't is like trying to force someone who is 500lbs to be on a diet when they don't want to be.

If she doesn't respect you then find a woman who does and stop wasting your time on her.

You are trying to force her to behave a way that she doesn't want to towards you.

That's actually showing a lack of respect for yourself if we are being honest.

 

[BPH]

This is a toxic unsustainable relationship.

Break up with her and move on. My ex was like this.

 

[SW15]

I agree with @BPH . Get rid of her and move on.

Being in a romantic relationship with her is analogous to working a dead end corporate job that doesn't help grow your skills and offers a toxic workplace culture.

She has zero respect for you, similar to how a toxic employer does nothing for you.

 

[AmsterdamAssassin]

I see a pattern of men getting it on with low-interest women and then complaining they don't get the desired results. Maybe some of you should hold out until you mean a woman who actually wants to be with you.

 

[BackInTheGame78]

I agree with @BPH . Get rid of her and move on.

Being in a romantic relationship with her is analogous to working a dead end corporate job that doesn't help grow your skills and offers a toxic workplace culture.

She has zero respect for you, similar to how a toxic employer does nothing for you.

The bigger problem is that OP has taught her over time to have zero respect for him, ironically by not having respect for himself.

Woman cannot respect men who don't respect themselves. Eventually they start to loathe them.

 

[New_Journey]

Hahaha answers are hilarious. Breaking up with her, its not the worse idea, but you'll be kicking the can down the road, all those issues you have in this relationship, you'll repeat in the next if you don't fix your $hit.

he’s read all the rp stuff and he’s not one of those “happy wife happy life dudes” he’s told me that I need to cut that **** out and take the leader role in conflict to adress it and resolve it in a quick manner as possible.

Learn from him, he knows what's up.

we’ve had a lot of conflict due to me enforcing and putting down boundaries

Why conflict? You say your boundaries and you move on, if she breaks them, you break up, there is no conflict.

One conflict in particular has been around she’s been storing a lot of stuff at my moms

Its not her fault, you allowed her to store $hit in her house.

We’ve had an agreement that the things should have been gone 6 months ago. She has been putting it off and ignoring some of my moms texts and other times she’s responded but things have always come up and it has been put of.

You are the fvcking man of the relationship dude, why are you delegating that $hit to her. If her stuff in your moms house bother you, you take that $hit and move it. Why do you wanna wait for her?

I made a plan and asked her multiple times to contact a place where we could drop stuff off for auction.

That is not your problem, is her to figure out, you pack her $hit, you drop them at her house for her to take care of it. This is captain save a ho3 attitude like a bunch of men in this forum.

I get really annoyed and tell her “we’ve made a plan for days and it’s just not time to delay this **** anymore, this does not fly. Your not respecting my time nor my mother by continuously putting this of”

Words without action is meaningless, that's what women do. Be a fvcking man, get all that $hit from your mom's house, take them to her house and let her figure out. Earn some respect from her. You allow yourself to be in this position, it is on you to leave that position.

anyway, I didn’t direct my anger towards her

Why not? Are you scared of her? Are you ashamed of being angry? Do you feel anger is a bad emotion?

this was Thursday and I didn’t reach out at all. Saturday night she sends some instagram post about relationships which I ignore. On Monday she calls me and asks “why the hell haven’t you called me?”
“I guess you don’t care and you can pick your **** up here I’m done with beeing ignored”

Trnaslation: I feel you are my b!tch, I disrespected your time, your mom, made you cancel the staycation, didn't do the $hit we agreed on, and you can't even get angry at me. Since you are my b!tch, whay you haven't called your man?

ignoring you for 4 days is uncalled for.

You're right, you should have ignored her for 1 month, instead of only 4 days. Now she knows you feel bad, and she picked on that. BE READY FOR THE NEXT DAYS WITH MASSIVE $HIT TEST MY FRIEND.

Of course it’s hard to judge this based on one instance but I somehow feel that this way of attention withdrawal works better when dating than in a relationship or am I doing it wrong?

What do you mean by works? If I ignore her, it will work on what? To change somebody first, you have to change yourself for good.

my friend would have told me to adress the ****ty behavior when it happened, which I did

Nothing changed. She stills doesn't respect you, crosses your boundaries, treats you like a her b!tch. Everthing got worse in fact, as you'll see in the coming days and weeks.

Anyway, she says the way I acted showed her that I don’t value her and the relationship and therefore it’s over.

See, I just read this part. No respect from her. Ignore what she says, watch what she does.

also the beta in me was seething like “she should be sorry, this is so disrespectful I can’t believe she hasn’t called to apologize “

This is good, this is a start, you know you got a problem.

You want her to be sorry? You want her to value you like you're the only man for her? Start by reading Dread by Rian Stone, then read Frame by Rian Stone.

In the meantime, since you guys are "done" (not really, she's bluffing, trust me), get all $hit from your mom's house, take them to hers and focus yourself on reading and making an actual change in you.

She is not the problem, you are. Women mirror the men in their life.

 

[Randolph]

Thank you we've established that she doesn't respect me, Id like more feedback on my handling of this, like a ***** or not harsch enough?

About grabbing her ****, it's a lot of stuff, not just to grab, its likely to fill a whole truck and I'm not about to put in that work or money. I said I can help you move it, otherwise Ill have people come put it in the yard if its not done by x date. (avoiding legal repecusions, over here its illegal to throw away someone elses stuff even if its on your property but you can put it outside to get destroyed by weather)

Im not afraid of getting angry but and I was. She broke down crying and asking for forgiveness and tried to make things right with me right then and there.

However, like you say, maybe im not angry enough.

 

[Randolph]

Some people referred to low IL women. This is not the problem here, she is all over mer all the time. Begging me to **** her and spend more time with her etc. However I suspect that she might be a BPD or something of the sort.

Also her inlaws has warned me about her on the DL.
Her sisters BF of 12 years gave me pretty clear signs this summer when we visited them and most of her family seem to keep her at arms lenght. I see this disrespectful behavior extend to pretty much anyone shes involved with and not just me.

I've actually read frame and dread. And stayed with this woman in order to try and sort my $hit out applying these concepts.


on the part with boundaries and conflict, have you read no more mr nice guy? women will often protest a boundary to see if you are for real or not.

 

[Randolph]

Also her inlaws has warned me about her on the DL.
Her sisters BF of 12 years gave me pretty clear signs this summer when we visited them and most of her family seem to keep her at arms lenght. I see this disrespectful behavior extend to pretty much anyone shes involved with and not just me.

However, if staying with a disrespectful person isnt a sign of low self respect, I dont know what it.
It stings a bit to aknowledge but thats why I post here in order to shed light on the things I want to improve.

 

[New_Journey]

Some people referred to low IL women. This is not the problem here, she is all over mer all the time. Begging me to **** her and spend more time with her etc. However I suspect that she might be a BPD or something of the sort.

Also her inlaws has warned me about her on the DL.
Her sisters BF of 12 years gave me pretty clear signs this summer when we visited them and most of her family seem to keep her at arms lenght. I see this disrespectful behavior extend to pretty much anyone shes involved with and not just me.

I've actually read frame and dread. And stayed with this woman in order to try and sort my $hit out applying these concepts.


on the part with boundaries and conflict, have you read no more mr nice guy? women will often protest a boundary to see if you are for real or not.

Women want a strong man with backbone, you are not that guy. The last thing I'll say is this, if you don't fix your attitude, you'll have the same disrespect in the next relationship. Good luck

 

[Randolph]

Women want a strong man with backbone, you are not that guy. The last thing I'll say is this, if you don't fix your attitude, you'll have the same disrespect in the next relationship. Good luck

Thank you

 

[BPH]

I largely agree with @New_Journey on a lot of these points. The only thing I will say differently is that while it IS your role as a man to lead, I wouldn't expect to have to do everything FOR her - not being able to do the bare minimum to assist you in meeting a deadline is ridiculous coming from a full-grown woman.

That said, I really need to drive this point home because I'm not just saying this as some red pill random on the Internet giving you the generic advice to "sack up" - I am TELLING you, you need to break up with this woman. I have dated this woman.

Tell me how much of this sounds familiar...

Everything starts off great. She's super attractive, the sex is great, she's really sweet and you enjoy spending time with her, she's generous and thoughtful...so you fall in love with her pretty quick...

Then you find out she has some serious trauma; maybe she was r*ped, maybe she's bipolar, maybe her ex was abusive, maybe she has a drug habit, maybe she was a foster kid. Doesn't matter, you're a good guy, you figure she just needs exposure to the right people, so you show her love and she shows it back.

But then things start to fall apart in her life and she starts blaming them on you. She picks fights about things that don't matter or aren't even your fault. She accuses you of cheating on her and holds a microscope to each woman in your life, searching for which one you're messing around with.

Given her trauma and her history, you tolerate it and persevere. You think to yourself that she's been through so much that she's self-sabotaging because she doesn't think she deserves to be happy at a deep, deep level - she's used to the abuse and toxicity, so she gets bored by the stability of it all and creates drama where it doesn't exist.

You reach a breaking point. You leave, or block her, or break up with her, or ghost her. She breaks down and bashes you for how easy it was to let her go, and how you must not have really loved her.

Some time passes, and she finds a way around the block; maybe Instagram, maybe Facebook, maybe a friend's phone. She starts reminding you of the good times you've had. She apologizes and acknowledges how her past is getting in the way of her future with you, and promises to do better. She invites you to talk things over, and that turns into make-up sex.

Then the process repeats.

If this is your relationship, you must cut it off.

 

[Tyrion]

I largely agree with @New_Journey on a lot of these points. The only thing I will say differently is that while it IS your role as a man to lead, I wouldn't expect to have to do everything FOR her - not being able to do the bare minimum to assist you in meeting a deadline is ridiculous coming from a full-grown woman.

That said, I really need to drive this point home because I'm not just saying this as some red pill random on the Internet giving you the generic advice to "sack up" - I am TELLING you, you need to break up with this woman. I have dated this woman.

Tell me how much of this sounds familiar...

Everything starts off great. She's super attractive, the sex is great, she's really sweet and you enjoy spending time with her, she's generous and thoughtful...so you fall in love with her pretty quick...

Then you find out she has some serious trauma; maybe she was r*ped, maybe she's bipolar, maybe her ex was abusive, maybe she has a drug habit, maybe she was a foster kid. Doesn't matter, you're a good guy, you figure she just needs exposure to the right people, so you show her love and she shows it back.

But then things start to fall apart in her life and she starts blaming them on you. She picks fights about things that don't matter or aren't even your fault. She accuses you of cheating on her and holds a microscope to each woman in your life, searching for which one you're messing around with.

Given her trauma and her history, you tolerate it and persevere. You think to yourself that she's been through so much that she's self-sabotaging because she doesn't think she deserves to be happy at a deep, deep level - she's used to the abuse and toxicity, so she gets bored by the stability of it all and creates drama where it doesn't exist.

You reach a breaking point. You leave, or block her, or break up with her, or ghost her. She breaks down and bashes you for how easy it was to let her go, and how you must not have really loved her.

Some time passes, and she finds a way around the block; maybe Instagram, maybe Facebook, maybe a friend's phone. She starts reminding you of the good times you've had. She apologizes and acknowledges how her past is getting in the way of her future with you, and promises to do better. She invites you to talk things over, and that turns into make-up sex.

Then the process repeats.

If this is your relationship, you must cut it off.

There’s a lot of similarities with one that I was with. I ended it and she mocked me with “you’ll be back, you always come back”
Three weeks later she took her own life.

 

[Randolph]

I largely agree with @New_Journey on a lot of these points. The only thing I will say differently is that while it IS your role as a man to lead, I wouldn't expect to have to do everything FOR her - not being able to do the bare minimum to assist you in meeting a deadline is ridiculous coming from a full-grown woman.

That said, I really need to drive this point home because I'm not just saying this as some red pill random on the Internet giving you the generic advice to "sack up" - I am TELLING you, you need to break up with this woman. I have dated this woman.

Tell me how much of this sounds familiar...

Everything starts off great. She's super attractive, the sex is great, she's really sweet and you enjoy spending time with her, she's generous and thoughtful...so you fall in love with her pretty quick...

Then you find out she has some serious trauma; maybe she was r*ped, maybe she's bipolar, maybe her ex was abusive, maybe she has a drug habit, maybe she was a foster kid. Doesn't matter, you're a good guy, you figure she just needs exposure to the right people, so you show her love and she shows it back.

But then things start to fall apart in her life and she starts blaming them on you. She picks fights about things that don't matter or aren't even your fault. She accuses you of cheating on her and holds a microscope to each woman in your life, searching for which one you're messing around with.

Given her trauma and her history, you tolerate it and persevere. You think to yourself that she's been through so much that she's self-sabotaging because she doesn't think she deserves to be happy at a deep, deep level - she's used to the abuse and toxicity, so she gets bored by the stability of it all and creates drama where it doesn't exist.

You reach a breaking point. You leave, or block her, or break up with her, or ghost her. She breaks down and bashes you for how easy it was to let her go, and how you must not have really loved her.

Some time passes, and she finds a way around the block; maybe Instagram, maybe Facebook, maybe a friend's phone. She starts reminding you of the good times you've had. She apologizes and acknowledges how her past is getting in the way of her future with you, and promises to do better. She invites you to talk things over, and that turns into make-up sex.

Then the process repeats.

If this is your relationship, you must cut it off.

it's actually freaking scary how on point you are about this woman. If you didnt live in the states I could have swore we dated the same woman. Like I said, I've felt it from the moment I met her that something was way off with this one but she got me hooked early with a pregnancy. (I've been so stupid)

especially this one:
"She accuses you of cheating on her and holds a microscope to each woman in your life, searching for which one you're messing around with." Unlocking my phone while I was sleeping and unfollowing pretty much every girl on instagam.

Calling all the time to check my wereabouts and who I'm with etc.

She has bashed me for a year for dating 3 other women at the same time as her.

And this:

"she gets bored by the stability of it all and creates drama where it doesn't exist "

 

[Randolph]

There’s a lot of similarities with one that I was with. I ended it and she mocked me with “you’ll be back, you always come back”
Three weeks later she took her own life.

holy ****

 

[BPH]

it's actually freaking scary how on point you are about this woman. If you didnt live in the states I could have swore we dated the same woman. Like I said, I've felt it from the moment I met her that something was way off with this one but she got me hooked early with a pregnancy. (I've been so stupid)

especially this one:
"She accuses you of cheating on her and holds a microscope to each woman in your life, searching for which one you're messing around with." Unlocking my phone while I was sleeping and unfollowing pretty much every girl on instagam.

Calling all the time to check my wereabouts and who I'm with etc.

She has bashed me for a year for dating 3 other women at the same time as her.

And this:

"she gets bored by the stability of it all and creates drama where it doesn't exist "

She is a cancer who will keep you from developing as a man.

Being successful with women is a result of lifestyle choice and being congruent with the kind of guy a woman would want to sleep with. She will damage your self-image until it's beyond repair and she convinces you that she's the best you'll get.

I've asked this forum about my ex before, because I was not equipped for that level of baggage either. You can read about one particular fight here: https://www.sosuave.net/forum/threads/valentines-day-am-i-the.272812/

She basically broke up with me over text because she was passive aggressive with me after I had spent the weekend prior to Valentine's with her, but not the DAY itself, due to work.

The fact that you have a kid with her complicates things, though I'd DEFINITELY ensure it's yours. Otherwise this will become pretty inescapable.

 

[Randolph]

I largely agree with @New_Journey on a lot of these points. The only thing I will say differently is that while it IS your role as a man to lead, I wouldn't expect to have to do everything FOR her - not being able to do the bare minimum to assist you in meeting a deadline is ridiculous coming from a full-grown woman.

Totally agree.

 

[BackInTheGame78]

There’s a lot of similarities with one that I was with. I ended it and she mocked me with “you’ll be back, you always come back”
Three weeks later she took her own life.

That sucks but you are not responsible for other people's decisions.

 

[Randolph]

She is a cancer who will keep you from developing as a man.

Being successful with women is a result of lifestyle choice and being congruent with the kind of guy a woman would want to sleep with. She will damage your self-image until it's beyond repair and she convinces you that she's the best you'll get.

I've asked this forum about my ex before, because I was not equipped for that level of baggage either. You can read about one particular fight here: https://www.sosuave.net/forum/threads/valentines-day-am-i-the.272812/

She basically broke up with me over text because she was passive aggressive with me after I had spent the weekend prior to Valentine's with her, but not the DAY itself, due to work.

The fact that you have a kid with her complicates things, though I'd DEFINITELY ensure it's yours. Otherwise this will become pretty inescapable.

Thanks for sharing!

Read the first few pages and shes really an *******.

Mine very rarely if ever go for overt disrespect but more on the covert expectation kind of way, expecting people to cater to her and guilting people who dont and playing the victim.

"why are you doing this to me?" "how can you treat me this way?" "you must not love / care for me" "I can't believe you won't do this for me" "do you think my sisters boyfriend treats my sister this way?" "my ex always made me coffee in bed and you cant even do it once?"
the crocodile tears are constantly flooding.