How to (Really) Get Girls

[BPH]

I’ve written long posts before, and my goal here is to write something as definitive and thorough as I possibly can. This forum provided me with resources that helped me develop back in my early high school days, so I’d like to return the favor, hoping that it helps somebody else get their start. This took a very long time to write, and I hope it's well-received.

Who Am I?

I am a 30-year-old white guy living with his parents in suburban Delaware. I make less than $40,000 per year, drive my family’s Pontiac Vibe or Toyota Prius depending on which isn’t experiencing car troubles, and sleep each night in my childhood bedroom which my artistic dad heavily stylized with circus themes back when I was a kid.

I say this because, despite all of my shortcomings on paper, the one thing I am exceptional at is dating and sleeping with attractive women. I lost my virginity when I was 17, about 2 months before I turned 18. Since then I believe I’ve slept with 94 different women, and seriously dated 3 of them. I have never in my life paid for sex, and my longest dry spell ever was only 4 months - and that was simply because it was the summer after losing my virginity when everybody went off to college.

If your circumstances are better than mine in paragraph 1, and you want a situation like mine in paragraph 2, then keep reading.

Who Is This For?

This is for all the people on the forum who don’t know who to follow. When I was young I tried to absorb as much information as possible from these PUAs and gurus. But when you pull back the curtain you find most of these guys are the same; they use paid models for “in-field approach videos”, tricks and gimmicks to get your attention, they’re selling courses and videos that promise nothing, and act like they have some secret Contra code of words that’ll magically make women’s panties drop. The same can be said for this forum - some guys have been here for years and have massive message counts and reaction scores. New guys will treat their advice as gospel, yet they may have no real-world experience.

So this is for the guys who will read this, and go out into the world to apply it.

Who Is This Not For?

If you’re looking for theories and philosophies regarding pick-up, I’m not your guy. This post will be about lived experiences and the current dynamics in the world - not ideals or how things should be, but how they are.

This is also not for you if you feel I need to prove my credibility. My journal is well documented, and it’s in my signature line on every post. You may think there’s no way this guy lives with his parents and bangs all these women, or that they must all be 5s and 6s, or drunk as hell when he meets them. I’m not here to provide receipts or convince you to listen to what I have to say. I encourage everybody to think critically and think for themselves, so if you have your doubts that’s perfectly fine, I gain nothing by keeping you here.

Disclaimer

There is no cheat code for this.

Getting good with women takes time - lots of it. Regardless of whether you’re looking to run up the notch count or find your future wife, this is a skill, and like any skill, requires time, exposure, and repetition to reach any meaningful level of proficiency. Some people are naturals - but if you’re reading this, that likely isn’t you. And that’s ok, I wasn’t either.

If you read this post and apply it to your own life you will get rejected, you will f*** up, you will c***block yourself, and you will have the most embarrassing stories in your friend group. You will make every mistake imaginable…but then you’ll learn how to avoid them in the future because you’ll recognize them and have the clarity to act differently.

This is not a band-aid fix to your girl problems, this is a lifestyle change. This is how you become a natural if you were not born one. If that’s what you’re looking to get out of this, then let’s continue…

Part 1 - Reality Check

First things first, some factors will be outside of your control that will affect your success with women. You may not want to hear some of these things, but once you come to accept the world as it is you’ll be able to create your own opportunities rather than curse the ones you don’t have.

Starting with the obvious: height matters. While there are certainly exceptions to the rule, most women will want a man taller than them - ideally one tall enough that they can wear high heels with and still be shorter. Thanks to social media and dating apps we live in a society where average women have access to nearly unlimited men…and they WILL choose the best from their options. Your appearance is the only thing a woman has to base her attraction on before knowing anything else about you, so the tallest guy (assuming he’s not butt-ugly in every other department) in a lineup usually wins.

Next: ethnicity matters. This is a little more fluid because it depends entirely on where you are in the world and how you compare to who else is there. For example, there was a post here not long ago by a black man who I believe said he had recently moved to Norway and was having trouble dating there. Because he is an anomaly in that culture, he will find people who avoid him due to his ethnicity - but he is also likely to find people who are attracted to him BECAUSE he is different than what they’re used to. So, while your heritage is something you can’t control, sometimes it’s all about finding the right market for your product - you.

Lastly, and most importantly: women are not innocent. Men will put women on a pedestal; believing they are beautiful, delicate, nurturing creatures incapable of the barbarism and degeneracy of man…that could not be further from the truth. You will never meet a better liar than a woman. You will never see somebody jump through quite so many hoops to maintain a false image as a woman. You will never be hurt as badly as you could be by a woman. And yet, to be successful with women I do believe you must love them. There are men on this forum who justify their actions because they are “getting back” at women who have wronged them, or taking their inadequacies with past partners and transferring those insecurities onto new ones. This is not the way forward. While I do believe it helps to have gone through a little heartbreak to shatter those rose-colored glasses, your goal should be to enjoy women and their company - not take power over them.

Part 2 - Self-Improvement

Thankfully, the list of things you CAN control is much longer. The best way to think about this is in terms of sales - and the product is YOU. If you want to sell your product to the hottest women you can, you’ll need to present them with something they want to buy. And because there is so much competition for their attention, you have to assemble the best product you can.

Looks matter, plain and simple.

Going to the gym is the easiest and fastest way to improve in this area. You’d be amazed at how quickly lifting weights for an hour a day, 3-4 times each week can improve somebody’s appearance. Sprinkle in a healthy diet and a little cardio and you’re already easily in the top 25% of all men. If you’re just getting started, a great beginner routine is Starting Strength. It’s what I began with, and I think it’s so good that I’ll link it here for you all: https://startingstrength.com/get-started/programs

Beyond health and fitness, another area where you’ll want to improve and achieve excellence is in your career and financial situation. I myself struggle in this area, yet I still see plenty of success, so do not think financial freedom is a prerequisite to success so much as a lubricant for it. Having money will open doors to more opportunities with women, and they will be more tolerant of your other shortcomings because of it. Owning your own place, car, business, etc all attractive and more impressive the younger you are - and should be something all men aspire to achieve, regardless of how much it improves their standing with women. However, make no mistake, money can only compensate for so much, and does not guarantee anything. I have a cousin who went to school to become a lawyer - chasing the money and thinking he would finally attract all those women who passed him by once he came out the other side. Turns out that simply being a lawyer doesn’t help with panty-dropping if that’s all you have going for you.


The last point worth addressing here is “style”. Everybody likes what they like, but there are certain things every guy should be doing if they want to be taken seriously by the opposite sex. Shower, shave, wear clothes that are properly sized and fit well, get a proper haircut, brush your teeth, and smell nice, along with a laundry list of other little things that should be common sense that all men should do. I won’t tell you what clothes to wear or how to dress in public, because everyone here has their preferences. Just consider who you’re attracting - and if it’s not who you want, consider making adjustments. Except for fedoras, nobody should be wearing fedoras.

 

[BPH]

Part 3 - Learning Stage

This is the part where I think most people will stop because it is by far the most painful.

To get good at attracting and seducing women, you have to talk to them - you must approach them, in person. Not DMing. Not Snapchatting. Not texting. Talking, face-to-face. There is no substitute. We live in a world where women can go on Tinder or Instagram and pick whichever guy they like best in their DMs - but when you go up to her in person, there’s nobody else to choose from. She will either like YOU, or she won’t.

I firmly believe there is no way to skip this step while developing a meaningful skill set to attract women. You will be rejected, a lot. You SHOULD be getting rejected, because if you aren’t that means you’re aiming too low. You should not be going up to the 4s, 5s, and 6s of the world that you think are within your grasp - you should be stepping outside your comfort zone and talking to the women you REALLY want to be with, the ones you fantasize about. You must become comfortable being uncomfortable.

You might be wondering where to start with this, and that’s understandable. The way I got my start was by walking the boardwalk at this beach my family would visit each year for a vacation week, and I would approach every woman that I found attractive. Don’t even think about it - just force yourself to do it. Start with canned lines, maybe a corny flirty joke, it doesn’t matter. But make sure it is apparent that you are attracted to them - we are not here to become friends on Facebook…I said you will get rejected a lot, and you will, but the goal here is still to try and close. You are not going up to these chicks to hit a quota while blowing yourself out of the water - try. Tell her she’s cute, ask for her number, arrange a date, and see how far you get.

See, the thing is…you WILL get rejected a lot, but you will also see some successes along the way. The more you do this, the more you’ll realize what NOT to do. Maybe you were too busy talking rather than listening. Maybe you were so nervous you forgot to ask for her number. Maybe you were too busy trying to maintain eye contact and forgot her name. Whatever the case may be, what you’re doing here is learning. Over time, you’ll find yourself more relaxed in conversation. Your body language won’t be so tense. You’ll stop relying on “pick-up” lines and you’ll be able to flirt like a normal person.

What will happen is you will lose the fear of rejection, and you will no longer be outcome-dependent. And you’ll notice you’ll start getting rejected less and less.

Part 4 - Escalation Stage

You’re finally getting comfortable talking to these women, and you’re starting to get some results to show for it, probably in the form of phone numbers. Texting and phone etiquette is its own beast, so let’s tackle that first…

You will find countless articles, gurus, and courses describing the “optimal way” to text women, or the “secret” to seducing over the phone…thankfully there is a much simpler way to go about this for the uninitiated: mirror. What does this mean? Mirroring refers to matching the tone and energy of the person you’re interacting with. Still confused? Imagine one of your friends texts you multiple paragraphs about their day and you respond with a 1 or 2-word answer. Or vice-versa, picture simply saying “What’s up?” and getting a response the length of a novel. These are examples of mirroring NOT being followed. When it comes to texting women, it’s best not to overthink; don’t be too quick or too late to reply, mirror their responses with your own, and try to keep idle chitchat to a minimum. Beyond your initial message, once you get their number, texting should be used to set up plans to see the girl again, or respond if she reaches out to you - you should NOT find yourself spending hours on the phone talking about your day with this woman. You are not her girlfriend. Be flirty, avoid oversharing, and have a point to the conversation - ideally planning out your date. Like approaching, texting is a skill that will come with time, after countless f***-ups.

Getting back on topic, now that you have some phone numbers your goal is to set up your next meeting with these women. You are the man, so it will be your job to plan this. I strongly suggest not spending too much money when doing this - a lot of guys will believe the expectation is to take these girls out to dinner or plan out an evening of activities. While there is nothing wrong with any of that, you will want to make sure these women are interested in YOU before you start investing significant time and money into them. Ideally, you’ll want to plan something semi-public, later in the day or even at night, doing something fun where you’ll be able to talk and get to know each other. Depending on your age, that may be a night out bowling, grabbing a couple of drinks at the bar, getting a smoothie somewhere together, etc.

There are a couple of points worth noting.

First, this is not a group outing and you are not there to entertain or treat her friends. It should be made very obvious in your interactions that you’re attracted to HER and want to see HER. Bringing along her friends might mean she doesn’t trust being alone with you, isn’t attracted to you, or just sees you as an all-expenses-paid night out.

Second, while you are in charge of planning the date, it’s not uncommon for the woman to weigh in with some suggestions or make changes due to availability (whether time or day). However, be very cautious if a woman is ever insistent, as this usually means she wants to partake in a certain event - not necessarily with you. What do I mean by that? For example, some women will expect to be wined and dined, will not accept coffee/drink dates, demand to be taken to a specific (often high-end) restaurant, etc. If she is more concerned with the destination than being in your company, do not waste your time and money on her.

Finally, you might be wondering why I suggested planning for something later in the day or at night. This is simply because you want to set yourself up for success if the date goes better than worse. How many times have you ever heard of a morning coffee date going so well that you both ended up in bed together on a Monday afternoon? Probably not as much as if the date went so well after a few drinks at the bar on a Friday night. Just because you’re expected to fail while you learn doesn’t mean you should stop yourself short of success when you find it.

Text the girl, be flirty, and set up the date. Next, we’ll go over how to close, both while on this date, and in general.

 

[BPH]

Part 5 - Closing Stage

The term “closing” will mean different things to different people - phone numbers…kisses…sex. While some of these should have occurred during the approach or while on the date, I’ll break down each one of these with their own sections, since they will all lead into each other.

Starting with the number close. Ignoring the fact that you may not need this if you meet a one-night stand at a bar, in most cases this is the first step you’ll be taking on the road to seduction. And thankfully it’s pretty simple - if your approach went well, all you have to do is ask. Keep in mind, we are asking for her PHONE NUMBER - not her Instagram, not her Snapchat, not her f***ing email. If she offers anything else other than the number it is a cop-out in 9 cases out of 10, and you should not waste any further time on her. You need the number to set up when you’ll be meeting with her next. In the early stages, you’ll probably start by ASKING for the number, but as you get more comfortable you’ll want to start TELLING her to give her your number. The difference lies in the confidence and assertiveness to assume she will give you her number, rather than asking because you’re unsure; “can I get your number?” versus “let me get your number”. Furthermore, you want HER number, rather than give her YOURS. This puts the ball in her court to text you, leaving the door open to her potential forgetfulness and removing any control you might’ve had.

Next, we’ll discuss the kiss close. Ideally, during your approach when you got her number, you made it obvious that you were attracted to her; “hey I think you’re gorgeous and wanted to say hi”, “you’re really cute, what’s your name?” etc. If not, hopefully, you made it obvious over text while setting up the date by sprinkling in a little flirting; “I can’t wait to see you”, “looking forward to our date”, etc. If your (hopefully mutual) attraction has been properly established then something as simple as a kiss shouldn’t come as a surprise to her. If you’ve never kissed before then you’ll probably find yourself frozen, looking for the perfect moment to make your move. I’m here to tell you there’s no such thing - you have to make those moments happen. If you’re confident that she’s on the same page as you, all you have to do is find a quiet moment, guide her chin to yours, and lean in. If you’re not so confident, or maybe can’t fully read the situation, I’ll drop a line that’s worked pretty well for me, so long as you can deliver it with certainty: “Hey, so let me ask you something, you think I’m attractive?” she’ll say “yes”, “and we’re both single, right?” she’ll say “yes” again, “then what would be your excuse NOT to kiss me right now?” This might sound corny, but it works way more often than it should and it’s a great way to get an answer if you’re unsure of her interest. In most cases, she won’t answer and just smile, which means to kiss her. Or she’ll say she doesn’t have one, which also means to kiss her. It should go without saying that you never want to force anything in these situations - you can go 90% of the way but still have her go the other 10%. “Technique” will be its own discussion, but kissing is also a skill that will improve with experience.

Finally, sex. When somebody refers to closing, or sealing the deal, the implication is that they went “all the way”. So how do we get there? Well, if you didn’t do an awful job kissing you’re already halfway there. What decides whether the two of you will go further is often a combination of things that are outside your control, along with logistical convenience. If she’s making out with you and you’re both getting touchy-feely, she’s almost certainly decided that she would sleep with you - if it’s not too difficult to actually do. What do I mean by this? Well, consider the following: Is there a place you can go that’s private, and ideally has a bed? Do either of you have roommates or family who you have to work around? Is she with friends that she can’t abandon/are worried about her leaving with you? Is she on her period? Does she have work early in the morning? There are dozens of factors that you cannot possibly expect to account for, which is why you want to stack the deck as heavily in your favor as you can. When setting up the date make sure it’s just the two of you. Try to schedule something in the evening or at night so it’s a natural segue into ending up at somebody’s place, and transitioning to bed. Set the date up on a weekend so there’s less likelihood of having to be asleep/awake by a certain time. I always advocate for dates at bars. They’re inexpensive, you’re in public so it shouldn’t be too intense, alcohol will act as a social lubricant so you can both ease your nerves and relax, they’re good spots to go on Friday or Saturday nights, and they’re open late so ending up at somebody’s place to call it a night is a natural next step if the two of you are on the same page.

When it comes to closing, I have a friend who once gave me a great analogy; “you never know how fast you can round a corner - until you crash”. Not great life advice, but in the context of sex he means that you never know how far you can go until you try. As the man, 99% of the time this will be based on YOUR initiation - you have to make the moves. Take your time, and never try to force anything if she stops you, but do test the waters. Start over the top of her clothes. If she’s comfortable with that, go underneath her clothes. If she’s still comfortable with that, take off her clothes. Obviously, if she skips any steps, feel free to match her pace. As far as the sex itself, unfortunately, getting good in this area will also come with time. The “Hub” is unironically a good place to learn some positions, and can give you some fun ideas. There used to be a good video called “How to eat pu***”, instructed by the stars themselves - and it was very informative. Stirling Cooper is also a former “star” who makes YouTube videos giving men sex advice. I strongly advise watching his video on how to properly finger - it might not sound like anything crazy, but possessing the skill to make a woman cu* without her needing to undress will do a lot to help convince her that she needs the “full experience”. And make sure to bring your own condoms (and to know how to put them on). Being good in bed is a valuable skill, and will be the difference between you spinning multiple plates…and not getting more than a one-night-stand.

In Conclusion

As long a read as this is, it still barely scratches the surface of what you’ll encounter in your dating lives. There are so many unique situations that they couldn’t all be covered by this piece. This is meant to merely serve as a path to success with women. To summarize; go to the gym, approach women, and learn from your failures.

That’s all there is to it…and you will learn that a woman who is interested in you will jump through all kinds of hoops to make herself available for you, and one who is not will give you all kinds of excuses instead.

Decide which is the worst pain; the quick, sharp pain of a rejection. Or the dull, throbbing, prolonged pain of settling for and staying with a woman who chose you, rather than one you chose.

It’s your choice. Good luck out there.

PS: Sorry about the multiple posts...character limits...

 

[pipeman84]

What a round about way of saying that it's a numbers game. So basically just brute force cold approach till some dumb hoe falls for it. Wow, what a revelation. How empowering. How suave.

As if the whole process is not emasculating and demeaning enough, you're talking about eating pvssy?! No self respecting guy should eat the pvssy of a slut. For all you know, a couple of different guys might've nutted in there last week, and now you're on your knees licking what's left of it.

 

[carnicerobcn]

Men you have understood everything and I am glad that you took the time to write these paragraphs, it is a good summary of how the game works!

 

[SW15]

Great set of posts to begin this thread. I'll leave comments in a few places.

money can only compensate for so much, and does not guarantee anything. I have a cousin who went to school to become a lawyer - chasing the money and thinking he would finally attract all those women who passed him by once he came out the other side. Turns out that simply being a lawyer doesn’t help with panty-dropping if that’s all you have going for you.

There are a lot of men who take a lot of rejections early in life (high school and college) and then think that money & career success will change things in the 2nd half of their 20s, 30s, and 40s. In conventional dating, it doesn't work out too well taking that approach. It's a bit of outdated thinking. Women have had their own workplace success and money/high annual salary/possessions alone won't do much to change things. Remember that women with bachelor's degrees + in the workplace have mostly eliminated the need for a beta provider type. While being a higher earning beta provider type might have worked for Boomers and early Gen X'ers pre-1990, it's not going to be a usable strategy now.

Some men might be able to get some "provider hunter" females with a seduction strategy centered around their high earning career. A lot of "provider hunter" females are women in their 30s-40s who are single moms. Does a 30+ childless male (most of these men will be childless) who is a reasonably successful lawyer, businessman, or STEM type guy (including medical doctors) want some similarly aged single mom? The answer is no.

Some of these high earning guys end up using various forms of directly paid sex, either using paid companions or sugar babies from platforms like Seeking.

Talking, face-to-face....You will be rejected, a lot. You SHOULD be getting rejected, because if you aren’t that means you’re aiming too low. You should not be going up to the 4s, 5s, and 6s of the world that you think are within your grasp - you should be stepping outside your comfort zone and talking to the women you REALLY want to be with, the ones you fantasize about. You must become comfortable being uncomfortable.

See, the thing is…you WILL get rejected a lot, but you will also see some successes along the way. The more you do this, the more you’ll realize what NOT to do.

Some men might not make it through the heavy rejection phase. I'm not a big promoter of the idea of men taking a lot of rejection. Some men are too psychologically fragile to handle the rejections.

It would even take some effort to get mid-tier women in the 4.5 - 6.5 range in looks. Even 4.5 - 6.5 range women are heavily pursued these days, especially if they put themselves out on swipe apps. Guys are even trying to slide into the DMs of women in this range too.

A mid-tier looking man (most men will fall somewhere in the mid-tier) could reduce his rejections by focusing on the mid-tier women. He might be able to get himself a longer term girlfriend doing this. I think a lot of men would be satisfied simply by getting a longer term girlfriend. Going from incel/borderline incel to getting a mid-tier girlfriend who provides reasonably frequent sex is a big upgrade for this man. This isn't the type of man who would stand out in life but at least he's getting regular sex. The big problems for this type of guy would occur later on if he puts a ring on the woman and then gets wiped out in divorce court. That could happen.

Mid-tier guys in general tend to struggle when they lack a social circle. The easiest way for most mid-tier guys to get a girlfriend is through their social circle and not approaching strangers in-person, swiping on apps, or sending random DMs. The biggest problem with social circle becomes sustainability. In something like 2-10 years, the social circle arranged relationship will fail. Will you be able to go back to the social circle to get another girlfriend? Maybe one more time, but most men can't get more than 2 girlfriends lifetime out of a social circle. What happens to a guy who ends up relocating and then no longer has a viable social circle? He'll end up getting destroyed on apps most likely, or destroyed with in-person approaching.

now that you have some phone numbers your goal is to set up your next meeting with these women.

Keep in mind, we are asking for her PHONE NUMBER - not her Instagram, not her Snapchat, not her f***ing email. If she offers anything else other than the number it is a cop-out in 9 cases out of 10, and you should not waste any further time on her. can I get your number?” versus “let me get your number”. Furthermore, you want HER number, rather than give her YOURS. This puts the ball in her court to text you, leaving the door open to her potential forgetfulness and removing any control you might’ve had.

The value of a phone number has diminished a lot in the smartphone era. It was most valuable during the landline era and even somewhat valuable in the 2000s when pre-smartphone cell phones started to overtake landlines for people who were in their 20s then. Now, a smartphone number has no value. It's not even going to result in a voice call, which would have happened in the 1970s-1990s landline era or 2000s dumbphone cell phone era.

The better approach now is to set up your first dates with in-person approaches and to set up the dates while the other person is still in front of you. Exchanging phone numbers after that is a mere formality. Selling the concept of a first date behind an electronic screen with only text-based communication is going to make things more time and energy consuming and more difficult.

Agree that getting an Instagram, Snapchat, or even an email address is not a good idea. Email? Email has been dead for early stage seduction since some point in the 2000s. Email died due to smartphones and social media. I do remember some guys talking about email addresses in pickup in the 2000s. It was nearly worthless then and even more worthless now.

There won't be big battles to get phone numbers if the idea is pitching the get together first instead of the contact information exchange. If she refuses the date idea proposal in person, you won't have a need to ask for her phone number. Instagram and Snapchat won't even be discussed.

You are the man, so it will be your job to plan this. I strongly suggest not spending too much money when doing this - a lot of guys will believe the expectation is to take these girls out to dinner or plan out an evening of activities. While there is nothing wrong with any of that, you will want to make sure these women are interested in YOU before you start investing significant time and money into them. Ideally, you’ll want to plan something semi-public, later in the day or even at night, doing something fun where you’ll be able to talk and get to know each other. Depending on your age, that may be a night out bowling, grabbing a couple of drinks at the bar, getting a smoothie somewhere together, etc.

Since you are going to be pitching dates in-person, I recommend having some default dates in mind that you plan on your own time. These are typically going to be bar dates for first dates. Occasionally, an activity date might be worthwhile if the initial approach conversation reveals a very good common interest. I don't recommend beginners in approaching improvise on making date suggestions in person. The default bar dates drink to schedule in person is the best.

Dinner dates are a big no-no. There is a lot of discussion about why dinner dates in restaurants should not happen prior to sex. That's a good topic on its own. I didn't learn that rule until the early 2010s, close to 10 years after I initially began to read books and online content about dating and headed towards a more red pill philosophy. I wish I had learned that idea sooner.

I also think coffee shop dates are a bad idea because they don't have the best environment for escalating and creating some sort of romantic vibe. Getting first date kisses or first date sex out of a coffee shop first date is going to be extremely difficult.

you might be wondering why I suggested planning for something later in the day or at night. This is simply because you want to set yourself up for success if the date goes better than worse. How many times have you ever heard of a morning coffee date going so well that you both ended up in bed together on a Monday afternoon? Probably not as much as if the date went so well after a few drinks at the bar on a Friday night. Just because you’re expected to fail while you learn doesn’t mean you should stop yourself short of success when you find it.

The later in the day date (usually night time) is the better idea.

Daytime first dates can be useful for 2 night shift workers or on the weekends for those who work more conventional schedules.

Generally speaking, most men are going to want to schedule their first dates for 7 PM or later, if they are the typical drinks in bars first dates.

 

[SW15]

Set the date up on a weekend so there’s less likelihood of having to be asleep/awake by a certain time. I always advocate for dates at bars. They’re inexpensive, you’re in public so it shouldn’t be too intense, alcohol will act as a social lubricant so you can both ease your nerves and relax, they’re good spots to go on Friday or Saturday nights, and they’re open late so ending up at somebody’s place to call it a night is a natural next step if the two of you are on the same page.

The timing on date scheduling can be a bit challenging. There used to be a school of thought that setting up first dates on a Friday/Saturday night showed that you lacked options because you were giving up a prime time slot to be a new female. Also, it was said that women were likely to reject those times because they wanted to use them for female friends.

In my experience, women 30+ are more likely to accept a Friday/Saturday night first date because their female friends won't be available due to LTRs, marriages, and possibly children at home. I still think it's a more difficult idea to get a woman under 30 to accept a first date on a Friday/Saturday night. Most are more inclined to accept weeknight first dates. Those weeknight first dates for working adults are always tough because you're usually up against the obstacle of being asleep/awake by a certain time. I've never liked that element of post-college dating. The asleep/awake by a certain time element can make first date sex more challenging. It might lead to 2nd or 3rd date sex instead. It might not be the best idea either to have first time sex with a new partner at 11 PM on Wednesday night after a long day and some alcohol. The combination of alcohol and fatigue might not be best for making a good sexual impression.

 

[BPH]

What a round about way of saying that it's a numbers game. So basically just brute force cold approach till some dumb hoe falls for it. Wow, what a revelation. How empowering. How suave.

As if the whole process is not emasculating and demeaning enough, you're talking about eating pvssy?! No self respecting guy should eat the pvssy of a slut. For all you know, a couple of different guys might've nutted in there last week, and now you're on your knees licking what's left of it.

The fact that you think women who "fall for approaches" are "dumb hoes" and "sluts who might've had a couple different guys nut in them this week" sounds like you're lacking this component...

And yet, to be successful with women I do believe you must love them. There are men on this forum who justify their actions because they are “getting back” at women who have wronged them, or taking their inadequacies with past partners and transferring those insecurities onto new ones. This is not the way forward. While I do believe it helps to have gone through a little heartbreak to shatter those rose-colored glasses, your goal should be to enjoy women and their company - not take power over them.

It's like working out - the guy at the gym with the 6-pack and the guy at the gym with the beer belly are mostly doing the same thing. The guy with the 6-pack has just been doing it for longer and has gotten better at making it a lifestyle change. There's nothing revolutionary about approaching women, some people just don't know where to start.

As far as thinking these women are "dumb", or "sluts" undeserving of the same pleasure they give you... you're entitled to your own opinion, close-minded as it may be.

Some men might not make it through the heavy rejection phase. I'm not a big promoter of the idea of men taking a lot of rejection. Some men are too psychologically fragile to handle the rejections.

True, and if that's the case they probably don't deserve the women they want. Not every man will do this.

The value of a phone number has diminished a lot in the smartphone era. It was most valuable during the landline era and even somewhat valuable in the 2000s when pre-smartphone cell phones started to overtake landlines for people who were in their 20s then. Now, a smartphone number has no value. It's not even going to result in a voice call, which would have happened in the 1970s-1990s landline era or 2000s dumbphone cell phone era.

While I agree that having multiple channels diminishes the value of a phone number, I still think it is the MOST valuable. I have had women comment that they liked that I had the balls to ask for their number rather than their Snapchat or their Instagram. I have seen dating profile specifically saying they won't take you seriously if you ask for either of those instead of their number.

Asking for a phone number establishes that you're interested in this person. You're not here to ogle at her story posts, like year-old photos, or create a Snap streak where you never meet again. I think the number still holds value.

The better approach now is to set up your first dates with in-person approaches and to set up the dates while the other person is still in front of you.

This would be EXTREMELY difficult for most guys to do if they're reading this post and likely new to dating as a whole. While it certainly helps to gauge the woman's reaction to your plans right then and there, it's also a lot of pressure - on both the girl and the guy. He has to come up with plans on the spot, that she would be most likely to enjoy, having just met her 5 minutes prior and established minimal rapport, where she's likely going about her day and doesn't have much time to give his idea any real thought.

I think this would lead to a lot of flakes, and half-baked date ideas. If you're approaching her at a bar or club, then you wouldn't really need to plan that out - you can just look to escalate and close right then and there that night. Anything else and she's likely in a rush, and attracted or not, probably won't be able to stick to a plan that was made up on the fly.

 

[AmsterdamAssassin]

When you say 'get girls' do you mean 'come to possess/own girls' or 'learn to understand girls'?

 

[pipeman84]

The fact that you think women who "fall for approaches" are "dumb hoes" and "sluts who might've had a couple different guys nut in them this week" sounds like you're lacking this component...
And yet, to be successful with women I do believe you must love them.
your goal should be to enjoy women and their company - not take power over them.

Let's not pretend all women are alike, deserving love and offering an enjoyable company. In part 3 you already categorised them using a totally superficial and subjective metric:

You should not be going up to the 4s, 5s, and 6s of the world that you think are within your grasp

 

[BPH]

When you say 'get girls' do you mean 'come to possess/own girls' or 'learn to understand girls'?

I mean capturing them in Pokeballs.

Let's not pretend all women are alike, deserving love and offering an enjoyable company. In part 3 you already categorised them using a totally superficial and subjective metric:

I also said this:

Lastly, and most importantly: women are not innocent. Men will put women on a pedestal; believing they are beautiful, delicate, nurturing creatures incapable of the barbarism and degeneracy of man…that could not be further from the truth. You will never meet a better liar than a woman. You will never see somebody jump through quite so many hoops to maintain a false image as a woman. You will never be hurt as badly as you could be by a woman.

My point is to treat women as they present themselves to you - each is different. Your outlook sounds jaded and resentful, as if you'd categorize a majority of them as "dumb sluts".

 

[pipeman84]

My point is to treat women as they present themselves to you - each is different. Your outlook sounds jaded and resentful, as if you'd categorize a majority of them as "dumb sluts".

If they just give their phone number to a total stranger who cold approached them and then have sex within 1-3 dates, then they are dumb sluts. That's as unequivocal as saying that all the women working in a brothel are sluts.
Majority of women are not like that, though, they won't respond to cold approach. And out of the minority who do, even fewer will continue past date 1 and into anything physical.

 

[BPH]

If they just give their phone number to a total stranger who cold approached them and then have sex within 1-3 dates, then they are dumb sluts. That's as unequivocal as saying that all the women working in a brothel are sluts.
Majority of women are not like that, though, they won't respond to cold approach. And out of the minority who do, even fewer will continue past date 1 and into anything physical.

Why must the women be doing something wrong, rather than the man something right?

I cannot remember the last time I met up with any woman I was interested in more than twice before we had sex. Making the generalization that they then must all be sluts is unrealistic.

Just because women have more options doesn't mean they exercise them. I rarely date, yet when I'm sleeping with a woman regularly she often isn't seeing anybody else. How do I know? They'll tell me. Could they be lying? Maybe. Though I don't think the exceptions make the rule.

 

[9-3enthusiast]

....the part where I think most people will stop because it is by far the most painful.

To get good at attracting and seducing women, you have to talk to her....
She will either like YOU, or she won’t.

I firmly believe there is no way to skip this step while developing a meaningful skill set to attract women. You will be rejected, a lot......

This is where I personally do well, and I'd strongly urge any guy who wants to be successful with women to concentrate on this
(I've snipped out all except the general principle of your post - Mainly so there isn't a wall of text here, but also because it's the general principle of it that I'm typing here...)

I personally think that the key is to be able to talk to ANYONE, whether male or female, and regardless of how attractive you find any specific woman. Become de-sensitised to the idea of being embarrassed while talking to a stranger, and treat everyone the same...
Makes it far easier to be able to walk up to, and speak, when you are in front of a woman you find attractive.

Speaking for myself: I was terrible with girls/women when I was younger (though I did eventually end up married with a family). During my 30s/40s I began giving presentations to groups regarding my primary hobby). It's amazing what it does for your confidence when a room full of people is listening to you/asking questions afterwards/etc.
And yes, occasionally I would notice a woman who had taken more than a casual interest in me (Being a family-man at the time, I did nothing about it)
After my divorce though, I found it very easy to speak to anybody, including attractive women, and since divorcing, this comfort at speaking to strangers has been a huge benefit in getting the attention of women.
I never specifically go out with the intention to 'approach', I just go about my day and when a woman catches my interest I'll speak to her. None of the PUA tactics you see in videos etc. Women generally aren't stupid, and they'll know instantly if you're trying to run 'game' on them. That's when the shutters come up.
The key is to come across as casual, and not like you care whether this goes anywhere or not. I suppose the correct term would be to avoid appearing 'Outcome dependant'.
You don't need to be astonishingly witty, or try to come up with an amazing opener... that'll just look try-hard from her perspective.
I simply make an observation on what is around at the time - Pretty much instantly I can tell if she's open to a few words, and then I'll try to gauge her interest - It's quite easy after a bit of practice.
If she seems interested, that's when I'll go for the contact details - If she's obviously not interested I just go about my day - no harm done, and no need for embarrassment.
An example or two that I've previously mentioned on SS:
Parking my car in town, so was she, I made a comment about the parking, she responded with a coy smile which I instantly recognised as 'interest'. So I kept the conversation going a few minutes, got her number.... and we had a few very good months together...
In a music store - She was looking at guitar strings with a note in her hand - I commented she looked puzzled. Turned out they were for her son, the conversation went well and we went for coffee there and then >>>> several weeks of 'fun' followed.

It really is that simple - and as @BPH says, it's a game of numbers... You'll get far more that are uninterested, you just learn to recognise this and move on.

In my opinion, the key points are to be comfortable talking to ANYBODY, until you get a 'hit'
And to quickly move on as soon as you realise this one isn't gonna happen.

 

[SW15]

While I agree that having multiple channels diminishes the value of a phone number, I still think it is the MOST valuable. I have had women comment that they liked that I had the balls to ask for their number rather than their Snapchat or their Instagram. I have seen dating profile specifically saying they won't take you seriously if you ask for either of those instead of their number.

Asking for a phone number establishes that you're interested in this person. You're not here to ogle at her story posts, like year-old photos, or create a Snap streak where you never meet again. I think the number still holds value.

If you don't arrange the date on the spot while she's in front of you like I recommend, then the phone number would be most valuable when we compare it to Instagram, Snapchat, or anything else.

I still don't like having to "sell a date" over text message. I also don't want to jump through hoops to get someone on a voice call either. Millennials and Gen Z have never been good at answering their cell phones. If you really wanted to do a phone call, you'd have to arrange it from text message, which is a hoop to jump through. Playing phone tag is something no one wants to do in this era. It wasn't even pleasant to do in the 1990s-2000s when I first entered dating.

The better approach now is to set up your first dates with in-person approaches and to set up the dates while the other person is still in front of you.

This would be EXTREMELY difficult for most guys to do if they're reading this post and likely new to dating as a whole. While it certainly helps to gauge the woman's reaction to your plans right then and there, it's also a lot of pressure - on both the girl and the guy. He has to come up with plans on the spot, that she would be most likely to enjoy, having just met her 5 minutes prior and established minimal rapport, where she's likely going about her day and doesn't have much time to give his idea any real thought.

I think this would lead to a lot of flakes, and half-baked date ideas. If you're approaching her at a bar or club, then you wouldn't really need to plan that out - you can just look to escalate and close right then and there that night. Anything else and she's likely in a rush, and attracted or not, probably won't be able to stick to a plan that was made up on the fly.

If you have a standard first date offer (drinks in a bar), then this is not that difficult. How difficult is it to say "Let's meet for a drink at X bar at 7:30 PM on Y date?". It would take some forethought to know good first date bars but that can be researched on Google/Instagram if you're new to a city. For those that have lived in the same city for a while, they already know the good date bars.

In nightlife venues, the objective is rarely getting the first date. In nightlife venue approaches, the objective is more of same night sex. I think fewer people are setting up first dates from nightlife venue approaches now than they would have 20 years ago when I first turned 21.

In non-bar (often called daygame) approaches, these are approaches that are better suited for those seeking dates that will lead to extended, committed relationships.

She can check her calendar on the phone. There's no reason she would not be able to stick to a plan that looks like it was made up on the fly but actually was pre-planned. I doubt the flake rate on this is any higher than the flake rate elsewhere. I have no data to prove the point, but it seems to feel better to make date plans in the flesh rather than behind an electronic screen with words only.

In a typical 5 minute conversation from a daygame approach, a man wouldn't know enough to plan a customized first date so he'd be offering a pre-planned standard first date offer to everyone he can get into an extended conversation. In daygame, most conversations fizzle out within 30-60 seconds, before a date offer can even be extended.

 

[AmsterdamAssassin]

In a typical 5 minute conversation from a daygame approach, a man wouldn't know enough to plan a customized first date so he'd be offering a pre-planned standard first date offer to everyone he can get into an extended conversation. In daygame, most conversations fizzle out within 30-60 seconds, before a date offer can even be extended.

While I don't do 'daygame', my conversations with strangers often last a lot longer than five minutes. Granted, I don't mean I stop people in the street, but I do get stopped in the street sometimes and I don't spend a lot of time conversing, but most of the time when I have conversations with strangers I'm seated on a terrace or in a diner enjoying coffee and the conversations easily last up to 15-30 minutes.

 

[BPH]

While I don't do 'daygame', my conversations with strangers often last a lot longer than five minutes. Granted, I don't mean I stop people in the street, but I do get stopped in the street sometimes and I don't spend a lot of time conversing, but most of the time when I have conversations with strangers I'm seated on a terrace or in a diner enjoying coffee and the conversations easily last up to 15-30 minutes.

I think, in your particular case, context is VERY important.

You're in your 50s or 60s walking around with an eyepatch and a cat on your shoulder...that's not exactly who I'm expecting to help with this or what @SW15 is referring to when he mentions a typical conversation.

As I've said, exceptions don't make the rule.

 

[Divorced w 3]

Nice thread

 

[AmsterdamAssassin]

You're in your 50s or 60s walking around with an eyepatch and a cat on your shoulder...that's not exactly who I'm expecting to help with this or what @SW15 is referring to when he mentions a typical conversation.

Granted, with my eyepatch and cat I'm probably interesting to talk to (which might motivate curious women to come over and talk with me), but that doesn't explain why these women talk with me for longer than it takes for them to learn they cannot pet my cat.

The main difference is that I wasn't raised in the internet age and I learned 'the hard way' how to have engaging conversations with women without the benefit of a forum that tells me how to act around people. That's the missing piece here, not the eyepatch and the cat. I'm just better at having conversation with women because I have more experience with women.

 

[Pierce Manhammer]

Good job BPH, didn’t read the whole thing but bully for you for writing it all up.

Don’t listen to the haters, some are the equivalent of the dudes that strap on c4 belts are walk into markets to get their 72 virgins…