Psychological projection may be more common than I realized

[FlexpertHamilton]

I always thought that the insistence on psychological projection was an overused pop psychology trope. But as of late, I'm realizing it's probably pretty common and explains behaviors from a lot of people, particularly NPCs.

Women are solipsistic by default and they assume what they feel must be what everyone else feels. So with this in mind, it should be clear why projection from women is so common, because the literally cannot grasp how men think and certainly most cannot empathize with anything other than her own feelings.

A most recent example has come to my attention. It's common for women 30+ to shame older men for preferring young women. One of the most common responses is "you just want someone naive so you can manipulate them". This is a perfect example of projection. Because herwhole world is manipulation, she can't see it any other way.

 

[member162951]

Women are solipsistic by default and they assume what they feel must be what everyone else feels. So with this in mind, it should be clear why projection from women is so common, because the literally cannot grasp how men think and certainly most cannot empathize with anything other than her own feelings.

I'd like to challenge you on this^ thought process by asking in all honesty can YOU yourself empathize and grasp a woman's experience? Understand HER thoughts and feelings?

For example:

Because her whole world is manipulation, she can't see it any other way.

How about considering the possibility that because SHE has been manipulated so much by men, perhaps she was hurt deeply by boyfriends or a husband dumping her for a younger woman, she has difficulty seeing it any other way?

Versus her being manipulative herself?

I don't think that is a good attitude either (in fact it sucks), it's simply a different way of looking at it with empathy and understanding of HER plight and what she may think, feel and experience, which is exactly what you're accusing her of - lack of empathy and understanding of men.

BOTH genders can be solipsistic and project, women don't have the market cornered on that.

Read @Money & Muscle recent thread. He fully admits he's being selfish and only thinking of himself.
He's not thinking about how what he wants to do will impact his wife OR daughter.

That's just one example.

I do NOT disagree with you, only that solipsism and projection are not gender specific.

Both genders could do with a little more empathy and understanding of each other and their respective experiences versus jumping to negative assumptions about each other's character and intentions and trust me I say the same thing to women about men.

 

[Gamisch]

I'd like to challenge you on this^ thought process by asking in all honesty can YOU yourself empathize and grasp a woman's experience? Understand HER thoughts and feelings?

For example:



How about considering the possibility that because SHE has been manipulated so much by men, perhaps she was hurt deeply by boyfriends or a husband dumping her for a younger woman, she has difficulty seeing it any other way?

Versus her being manipulative herself?

I don't think that is a good attitude either (in fact it sucks), it's simply a different way of looking at it with empathy and understanding of HER plight and what she may think, feel and experience, which is exactly what you're accusing her of - lack of empathy and understanding of men.

BOTH genders can be solipsistic and project, women don't have the market cornered on that.

Read @Money & Muscle recent thread. He fully admits he's being selfish and only thinking of himself.
He's not thinking about how what he wants to do will impact his wife OR daughter.

That's just one example.

I do NOT disagree with you, only that solipsism and projection are not gender specific.

Both genders could do with a little more empathy and understanding of each other and their respective experiences versus jumping to negative assumptions about each other's character and intentions and trust me I say the same thing to women about men.

The last paragraph sounds great in theory, unfortunately it won't hold up in real life ( for a dude).

It's extremely important to realize that the moment you meet a new woman you'll have to deal with all of her projections and beliefs. Hence why we prefer young, bubbly women over the 30+ y.o ones. Not because of looks neccesarily, but rather because we all know that a 28 y.o woman lived like 4 lifes already including many life altering experiences.

 

[member162951]

The last paragraph sounds great in theory, unfortunately it won't hold up in real life ( for a dude).

It's extremely important to realize that the moment you meet a new woman you'll have to deal with all of her projections and beliefs.

Hence why we prefer young, bubbly women over the 30+ y.o ones. Not because of looks neccesarily, but rather because we all know that a 28 y.o woman lived like 4 lifes already including many life altering experiences.

OK but why not judge each woman separately, as an individual, versus lumping her into some arbitrary category based on her age?

Or just getting to know *her* and determining what *she's* about based on what you've learned about *her* through your interactions?

You do realize there are many 28+ women who are attractive, feminine and bubbly who either haven't lived four lives already or if she has, takes a fresh innocent approach to each new man she meets and every new experience?

I love this place but that's my only gripe - all the generalizations.

And not realizing and understanding that women experience their own struggles with men, it goes both ways.

Yes some women suck. They're manipulative, selfish, attention seeking sluts. Many are under 25 and more jaded than many 30+ women.

And less attractive! In some cases.

And there are men who also suck for the same or different reasons.

I dunno, I realize this is a men's forum but I don't think it's particularly helpful to men to instill an attitude of distrust towards women or lump them all into one category versus taking the time to know each woman on an individual basis and at least least trying to understand her perspective.

Again, I say the SAME thing to women on the female forums about their piss poor attitudes about men.

I'm not liked there very much because of it.

Just my $.02. I'll get off my soapbox now. Lol

I'm female by the way.

 

[Kotaix]

99% of what people say is projection in one form or another.

 

[FlexpertHamilton]

I love this place but that's my only gripe - all the generalizations.

I actually think generalizations are a part of next-level nuance. In this example, the levels go like this: Level 1 - women are victims, they are the fairer sex and should be given the benefit of the doubt. Level 2 - women can be fact just as psychotic and abusive as men, be careful. Level 3 - both men and women are complex creatures, we should judge them individually instead of as a group. Level 4 - We should use stereotypes and generalizations based on observation, because they are based in truth. We should then go on to apply exceptions to unique individuals on a case by case basis and give people the benefit of the doubt when possible, but not generously.

I am arguing from level #4, which still includes level #3 in its assumptions. But the basic idea is, generalizations should be used first, until proven otherwise. As long as you're not succuming to any biases like confirmation bias espsecially.

I'd like to challenge you on this^ thought process by asking in all honesty can YOU yourself empathize and grasp a woman's experience? Understand HER thoughts and feelings?

For example:


How about considering the possibility that because SHE has been manipulated so much by men, perhaps she was hurt deeply by boyfriends or a husband dumping her for a younger woman, she has difficulty seeing it any other way?

Versus her being manipulative herself?

I do not pretend to know womens thoughts or feelings, but I do know they feel emotions, particularly negative emotions, much more than men, so I can empathize with that, and I do seek to understand their perspective. But I also know their feelings are highly volatile and not necessarily based in reality. So just because she feels a certain way doesn't mean it's reasonable.

I'm simply tired of extending olive branches to women to excuse their behaviors and giving them even more reason to be a victim. I think we're at a point in the culture where women have become the victims in every scenario, so it's time to shift the burden onto them and start looking at it another way. Of course I don't truly believe these generalizations are completely set in stone, but I think they're probably a more accurate starting point than to think "oh poor woman, she must have been traumatized" because they play this card all the time and it's a smokescreen.

BOTH genders can be solipsistic and project, women don't have the market cornered on that.

Read @Money & Muscle recent thread. He fully admits he's being selfish and only thinking of himself.
He's not thinking about how what he wants to do will impact his wife OR daughter.

That's just one example.

I do NOT disagree with you, only that solipsism and projection are not gender specific.

Women on the whole are much, much more solipsistic than men, though I do suspect that projection is probably extremely mmon for both genders. If men project it's probably not due to solipsism as much as it's due to general lack of empathy and/or narcissism, which isn't quite the same thing as solipsism, which is basically the mindset of "how I feel at this moment is the only valid thing in the world".

 

[AmsterdamAssassin]

I'd like to challenge you on this^ thought process by asking in all honesty can YOU yourself empathize and grasp a woman's experience? Understand HER thoughts and feelings?

That's why women seek me out.

 

[Gamisch]

OK but why not judge each woman separately, as an individual, versus lumping her into some arbitrary category based on her age?

Or just getting to know *her* and determining what *she's* about based on what you've learned about *her* through your interactions?

You do realize there are many 28+ women who are attractive, feminine and bubbly who either haven't lived four lives already or if she has, takes a fresh innocent approach to each new man she meets and every new experience?

I love this place but that's my only gripe - all the generalizations.

And not realizing and understanding that women experience their own struggles with men, it goes both ways.

Yes some women suck. They're manipulative, selfish, attention seeking sluts. Many are under 25 and more jaded than many 30+ women.

And less attractive! In some cases.

And there are men who also suck for the same or different reasons.

I dunno, I realize this is a men's forum but I don't think it's particularly helpful to men to instill an attitude of distrust towards women or lump them all into one category versus taking the time to know each woman on an individual basis and at least least trying to understand her perspective.

Again, I say the SAME thing to women on the female forums about their piss poor attitudes about men.

I'm not liked there very much because of it.

Just my $.02. I'll get off my soapbox now. Lol

I'm female by the way.

The generalizations are indeed also protection/ projecting mechanisms, BUT in my case imo they are equally fair as a business man talking about investing. He won't be able to predict the future, but due to experience he does have a feel of how things might go.

I do agree that many of us are jaded,but on the other hand: imo that's simply the trajectory of life for a man. Personally I've been all around the clock, from bluè to red to blackpill. Now I'm akin to say that you are right, past isseus shouldn't be set in stone. At some point the socalled " redpill rage " should be replaced by healthy appreciation for women.

By the way, I know you are a female because you defend the sisterhood. I geuss that is a mechanism to protect one self simultaneously. Thats oke. We appreciate your presence .

Just know that the "edge" most women find attractive in a man, comes from somewhere..every player/don juan/ redpiller will go through enough women to know what's going on.

As @FlexpertHamilton already stated: a man whose on top of his game will be literally at the front of new developments. If only due to sample sizes. Example of this is that most men said that online dating was dead 5 years ago already, now women slowly start saying the same.

 

[member162951]

By the way, I know you are a female because you defend the sisterhood

I don't @Gamisch, not really. On the female forums when I hear trash talk, that men only want sex, are players etc, I defend them! You!

You would not believe the BS and shaming I hear directed at men, and I don't tolerate that either!

I play fair, and don't take sides just cause I'm female.

I realize I'm not gonna change the world lol, only suggesting that men and women at least try to empathize and understand each other's experiences because we ALL deal with BS from each other from time to time in various ways ....

 

[BillyPilgrim]

Women on the whole are much, much more solipsistic than men,

All you need to know about @JoyDivision1990 is the conspicuous absence of this from her argument in the comment you quoted. (and no, CatsMeow, I'm not responding to you).

 

[Mertz09]

I don't @Gamisch, not really. On the female forums when I hear trash talk, that men only want sex, are players etc, I defend them! You!

You would not believe the BS and shaming I hear directed at men, and I don't tolerate that either!

I play fair, and don't take sides just cause I'm female.

I realize I'm not gonna change the world lol, only suggesting that men and women at least try to empathize and understand each other's experiences because we ALL deal with BS from each other from time to time in various ways ....

“I don't @Gamisch, not really. On the female forums when I hear trash talk, that men only want sex, are”

What are the female forums names?
I’m interested, curious

 

[Smok1nAce]

99% of what people say is projection in one form or another.

Basically this. Took me years to understand. Its a gift and once you recognize the tonal shift in someone voice when they are you can gauge how conniving someone is.

 

[AmsterdamAssassin]

Again, I say the SAME thing to women on the female forums about their piss poor attitudes about men.

At least that makes them easy to circumvent. "This is all caused by the Patriarchy!" *smiling 180 spin and walking away.*

 

[CAPSLOCK BANDIT]

It's funny because projection isn't the full story, causality is; it is this idea that the continued consequences of our actions reveal our true nature, like an echo we put into the world that makes its way back to our ears but we fail to recognize our own voice

 

[Fruitbat]

On the younger women issue:

I had a group of friends, wealthy, liberal but they had a lot of parties I enjoyed going to.

when I met my wife (11 years younger, Asian) one night when drunk this happened:

Wives: Why are you going for a younger woman? You have nothing in common (plus other shaming)

me: I prefer younger women, find them attractive and want to have kids so that gives us more time and better chance

them: Yeah but you’re a professional, surely you want a professional woman?

me: No. I like homely women who are family first. There’s enough career in me for 2 people, it’s good to have a balance rather than both of us spending all our time in an office and the kids in daycare.

them: (no ****) so you’re saying women shouldn’t have careers?

me: No, it’s up to us to choose our own way. I’m just saying that’s what I prefer in women

them: oh, you want a doormat

me: No. I like feminine women who are family first and not ball breaking career women, just my preference

them: (kinda angry) that’s so not cool. You should encourage that.

me: So, one of your husbands is a MD of a large firm and is into fast cars. Your husband does MMA in his spare time. Your husband rides a motorbike. All of you have chosen masculine men, traditionally masculine men, not soft metro guys. So you like that in men, I like feminine, caring women. It’s just my preference

they had a super problem with this and I got nasty stares

After a while I stopped getting invited, and they all turned on me and now I never see them.

I spoke way too much truth to them.

In terms of projection, they were insisting that I was saying women had to act a certain way when actually they were the ones insisting that I had to adopt their values and preferences.

One of the problems with being unplugged is that it’s quite difficult to find friends. I wasn’t waving any of this in their face or making arguments. I wasn’t confirming to their standards and I was honest as to why.

I live in a liberal city and lots of people have an issue with me being with a younger Asian woman. It’s the last form of acceptable racism.
“We love diverse relationships and celebrate them. ah, no, not like that!”

 

[AmsterdamAssassin]

Wives: Why are you going for a younger woman? You have nothing in common (plus other shaming)

me: I prefer younger women, find them attractive and want to have kids so that gives us more time and better chance

me: women your age have lots of baggage, and my Ferrari has limited trunk space.