OLD vs. Non OLD Approaches

[The Duke]

For those that have used both methods extensively, Could you have reached the notch count you have with out the use of OLD(online dating)? When OLD was good, I took full advantage of it and had a lot of success.

There is no way I could have gotten the big numbers from going out alone. I even tried but it was never as efficient. I also think I would have contracted more STD's relying on picking up random girls out of bars.

60% of the girls I got were from OLD, 30% were from bars, and 10% were from social groups, etc.

Now days I don't see OLD as effective. Too many attention wh0res, and too much trash on there. The return on investment isn't there like it once was for me. I have to swipe way more than Ever before, it takes too long.

 

[jamesfromhouston]

For those that have used both methods extensively, Could you have reached the notch count you have with out the use of OLD(online dating)? When OLD was good, I took full advantage of it and had a lot of success.

There is no way I could have gotten the big numbers from going out alone. I even tried but it was never as efficient. I also think I would have contracted more STD's relying on picking up random girls out of bars.

60% of the girls I got were from OLD, 30% were from bars, and 10% were from social groups, etc.

Now days I don't see OLD as effective. Too many attention wh0res, and too much trash on there. The return on investment isn't there like it once was for me. I have to swipe way more than Ever before, it takes too long.

I've had similar experiences to you.

I'd say 80% to 90% of my lays have come from OLD.

OLD is just so much more efficient.

IL wise, you're able to know superficially which girl is interested (at least initially) and start things from there.

Non-OLD just feels like an uphill climb.

But with that said, I too noticed that my effectiveness on OLD has declined progressively through the years.

I get much less swipes than before. Many of the girls on OLD are much more entitled than ever before. They ghost or fade easily.

Mind you, I pay for premium as well on some of them. It doesn't really help that much.

Also starting from last year, I actually got catfished for initially the first time but then a few more times. Because photo filters are getting better and it's really hard to assess true physical appearance of some of these girls until the meet.

With that said, I'd still stick to OLD more than cold approach, something I am horrible at. I've also been club and night gaming but it's really not as effective for me compared to OLD.

 

[Black Widow Void]

I haven't done OLD in quite some time, but when I did, I'd agree. My notch count really increased quickly in a shorter period of time. I'm grateful for that aspect, but some of the OLD gal's are a bit of a blur or (if I didn't keep a list, would be forgotten) Don't get me wrong. I had some girlfriends also from OLD, but most were quick lays.

I agree about OLD and that's the reason I left a few years back. These days, most women aren't "new." Instead, it seems that most women return because they just got out of a relationship or were pumped and dumped. Instead of stepping away and working on themselves, they immediately hop back on OLD. And when they re-join, they also arrive with yesterday's baggage. Some of these types may not even want to 'date' yet. But the attention that they receive will help them feel better about their past blunders.

I'm currently in a relationship, but before this, I was having good odds using Meetup. The female quality was better too. I'll share my angle.

I would scope out the attendees at some social event. With the attractive women, I'd check out their bios (how long they've been a member, how many meetups they've attended, but more importantly .... their interests and also the groups they belong to). During the meetup, I'd *ahem* *cough* bring up some subject with the group (the topic would naturally be something listed as an 'interest" on their bio).

I keep the conversations light and not too long and then mingle with other members. Two days later or so, I'll send them a light message about something she and I discussed. From there, I sort of feel out her response.

Meetups are really golden. You see and meet women for the first encounter under a non-intrusive and non-threatening environment. When you send them an e-mail, they already 'know' you and are more warm to responding.

---- side note: I met my current girlfriend though a meetup event. Here's how I intrigued her.
Her name is not the most common. Before the meetup, I searched her name on facebook. I found her page and also found out her birth date. Upon the meetup event, I brought up the subject of "astrology" (most women love that). After a minute or two, I looked at my female interest and said.. "I'd bet that you're a Pieces." She was amazed and intrigued. I then played it cool and interacted with other members. Two days later, I send an e-mail. The following week, it's coffee and the week after, it was a full blown date. The date ended after she made me breakfast (if you get my drift).

 

[DarwinTaurus]

The Duke... interesting percentage breakdown, however, what do you see as the solution, or best method today?

 

[mikedee]

85% from cold approach
15% OLD

The hottest ones from cold approach, girlfriends and FWB from cold approach too.

 

[AmsterdamAssassin]

I found that women I didn't meet in person were 'low interest'. Endless online chatting and clearly only looking for validation. And they only want to meet on a 'date'.

When I meet women in person, they're often already down to do things together.

 

[SW15]

Now days I don't see OLD as effective. Too many attention wh0res, and too much trash on there. The return on investment isn't there like it once was for me. I have to swipe way more than Ever before, it takes too long.

I'd say 80% to 90% of my lays have come from OLD.

But with that said, I too noticed that my effectiveness on OLD has declined progressively through the years.

I get much less swipes than before. Many of the girls on OLD are much more entitled than ever before. They ghost or fade easily.

I pay for premium as well on some of them. It doesn't really help that much.

I haven't done OLD in quite some time, but when I did, I'd agree. My notch count really increased quickly in a shorter period of time. I'm grateful for that aspect, but some of the OLD gal's are a bit of a blur....I had some girlfriends also from OLD, but most were quick lays.

I agree about OLD and that's the reason I left a few years back. These days, most women aren't "new." Instead, it seems that most women return because they just got out of a relationship or were pumped and dumped. Instead of stepping away and working on themselves, they immediately hop back on OLD. And when they re-join, they also arrive with yesterday's baggage. Some of these types may not even want to 'date' yet. But the attention that they receive will help them feel better about their past blunders.

Caleb Jones (aka Alpha Male 2.0 & Blackdragon) long ago proposed a '5 Phases' model for effectiveness of any individual dating technology, going all the way to video dating technology from the 1980s. The first link below is his 2020 update to that article. He had written that article also in 2015 (see second link below). You only need to look at the first link, the second link is just there to show that the first link pulled most of the ideas from it.

How To Be Successful With Online Dating FOREVER - Alpha Male 2.0

Every online dating technology, whether it’s a website, an app, or a service, goes through five phases of effectiveness. When you understand these phases and you use them to your advantage, you will no longer be worried when a certain dating site, service, or app stops working or doesn’t work as...

alphamale20.com

There Is No Hookup Culture - Alpha Male 2.0

Enable Dark Mode Enable Light Mode Get Free Email Updates! Join us for FREE to get instant email updates! -By Caleb Jones Several of you have emailed me this article which has been making the rounds lately, lamenting about the “hookup culture” caused by apps like Tinder. At the same time, I’ve...

alphamale20.com

Part of the reason that tech-based dating is more difficult now is that there hasn't been a disruptive new technology platform in the space in many years. Tinder launched in 2012 and Bumble launched in 2014.

Each individual technology now takes less time to go from Phase 1 to Phase 5. It took Match.com about 15-20 years to move from Phase 1 to Phase 5. Tinder and Bumble did it in about 4-7 years.

 

[Hamurabimbi]

OLD is very efficient. I didn’t get into it until just before Covid and was only on for less than a year. But it was absolutely amazing. Your matches already find you attractive and they’re horny.

 

[Rainman4707]

For those that have used both methods extensively, Could you have reached the notch count you have with out the use of OLD(online dating)? When OLD was good, I took full advantage of it and had a lot of success.

There is no way I could have gotten the big numbers from going out alone. I even tried but it was never as efficient. I also think I would have contracted more STD's relying on picking up random girls out of bars.

60% of the girls I got were from OLD, 30% were from bars, and 10% were from social groups, etc.

Now days I don't see OLD as effective. Too many attention wh0res, and too much trash on there. The return on investment isn't there like it once was for me. I have to swipe way more than Ever before, it takes too long.

A big NO. Thank the world for online dating. It was my main way to get laid and find women, Really enhanced my life. Yes i know people call it, but in my opinion it is a good way to meet people.

 

[jamesfromhouston]

 

[Pierce Manhammer]

A simple filtering rule to avoid filters is to ask for a video call, joke about people not looking like their photos. If they’re unwilling start wondering. A simple work around is to ask for a picture of them doing something silly, like touching their nose or grabbing their ear.

You do, however, need to do this with the right frame, and jokingly in order for it to be effective.

 

[BPH]

I'm gonna disagree with a lot of the replies here and say that OLD was, and still is, s***. It is entirely supplementary; if something happens from it, great, but I expect nothing.

Tinder came out when I was a freshman or sophomore in college, and it was definitely better back then because everybody knew it was "the hookup app", and there weren't all these bots, fake accounts, CashApp wh***s, etc. I'd have to really think about it, but I would estimate 15 or fewer of the women I've been with have come from OLD, so only about 20% or so.

A majority of the women I've been with have come from cold approaching, fraternity parties, bars, or the gym.

But yeah they're definitely worse now. I remember waiting in line at the bar while some girls in front of me were talking about how one of them matched with this guy on Bumble because she "just wanted to see if he liked me", before stating she had no intention of messaging him...like yeah, a dating app where a woman has to become the man and make the first move is losing popularity? Who would've guessed...

I would suggest not investing too much of your time (and none of your money) in OLD. It's a nice bonus when you get a hot match, but I'd consider myself quite good-looking and even when I do get a match, more often than not it doesn't move beyond the texting stage.

 

[SW15]

OLD was, and still is, s***. It is entirely supplementary; if something happens from it, great, but I expect nothing.

This has been my experience.

 

[We_ArE_VeNOM]

.

OLD has its place in the grand scheme of things (getting laid), and the compare & contrast aspect of the subject gives us something to talk and think about.

But the problem is; it is without context.

You cant logically compare OLD to non-OLD.

Why?

Because is glaringly obvious that for most of you, the vast majority of your exchanges with women that you are ATTEMPTING to hook up with comes from OLD..and only a small percentage of your exchanges with women comes from non-OLD.

Let's say in two weeks, you had verbal and/or physical interactions with 20 women of whom you met via OLD.

And in those same two weeks, you only cold approached 2 women.

One method has wayyy more volume than the other, so you can't compare the two.

Either...

A. Do what I do; treat them both separate and log stats for both.

or

B. Treat them the same, as long as there equal value on both sides...and then you can REALLY see which one is working better for you.

 

[Barrister]

My notch count would be significantly lower without OLD in play.

The quality from cold approach is always far higher. But the lays are much easier with OLD. If you use OLD fairly religiously and aren't hideous to look at you can hook up with a new woman from OLD exclusively I would say at least every couple of weeks -- more if you are in a major metro area. Cold approach is enhanced by venue and time of day. OLD doesn't have those limitations and its sole purpose is generally for hookups or plates.

 

[SW15]

The quality from cold approach is always far higher. But the lays are much easier with OLD. If you use OLD fairly religiously and aren't hideous to look at you can hook up with a new woman from OLD exclusively I would say at least every couple of weeks -- more if you are in a major metro area. Cold approach is enhanced by venue and time of day. OLD doesn't have those limitations and its sole purpose is generally for hookups or plates.

I think this depends on a man's goals.

If a man is seeking some sort of medium to longer term relationship (6 months +), he's better off approaching strangers in real life. As you say, quality is better from approaching in real life.

Notch count is not the only valuable metric. Sex frequency is another. In a medium to longer term relationship, sex becomes more frequent for some period of time. There aren't as many gaps between one night stands and casual sex situationships.

To a point, it is easier to retain than attract new women. Seeking new one night stands or casual sex situationships requires a man to be in hardcore sales/marketing mode at all times. That's an effort that can be emotionally taxing.

The serial monogamist who never legally marries (typically has monogamous relationships lasting 6 years - 5 years) does get to take advantage of less effort sex while in the retention period. It lowers his notch count compared to a hardcore seducer but may raise his frequency of sex.

Serial monogamist type guys are likely better off as real life stranger approachers.

 

[Solomon]

I would suggest not investing too much of your time (and none of your money) in OLD. It's a nice bonus when you get a hot match, but I'd consider myself quite good-looking and even when I do get a match, more often than not it doesn't move beyond the texting stage.

You're quite good looking but women don't want to talk or meet up with you?

 

[CountSuavula]

Just being personable and talking in real life heavier on the romantic interest and less often asking to hang out as friends in a less confrontational way. I like the women in my neighborhood nearby as to I can keep my tabs on them. Mutually I like the neighborhood women keeping tabs on me too.

 

[BPH]

You're quite good looking but women don't want to talk or meet up with you?

That's not exactly uncommon...

When I was dating my ex she showed me her Tinder to try to demonstrate some "notes" feature where you could leave them a message if you swiped right and didn't match but LITERALLY every right swipe was a match.

Being a hot guy on a dating app doesn't make me special.

 

[SW15]

LITERALLY every right swipe was a match.

That's definitely true for mid looking women and better. There are even below average women who have immense abundance due to apps.

Being a hot guy on a dating app doesn't make me special.

It makes you more competitive. 6'0"+ fit men are what every woman on a swipe app is seeking. She believes she is entitled to that man.