Patience or Pipe Dream?

[kleathe1]

This will be a bit of a long post, but i wanted to put some context out there as it also follows my progress on the path of being a better man and better with women in general. I am 36 and my girlfriend of 14 years left me about 2 years ago. I got the "I love you but I'm not in love with you" speech. I was crushed and had no idea why or what caused her to leave. I am an engineer by trade so im very logical and rational so i immediately started consuming everything i could about why she left me and how to get an ex back etc. I quickly realized that i was a "niceguy" and had given up all my own sense of self and individual wants and needs to "keep her happy" and of couse she left me for it because i wasnt being a man.

After about 10 months of inner work, reading, learning, meditating, focusing on just being ok with myself, I decided I no longer wanted her back and I was going to start dating. I took a few pictures doing things I love and made a profile on a dating app. I figured since I was always busy working, this would be worth a try just to see if I got any traction. I met a girl who was 26 at the time who lives 2 hours away. This is where in hindsight i still had no idea how to properly don juan a girl so i made a ton of 101 mistakes right away. I talked on the phone way to much up front but she seemed crazy attracted to me.

She sent several pictures, gave herself orgasms on the phone with me multiple times over 3 months, but wouldn't meet me saying she is afraid she would fall in love with me and want to give up on her school and career goals. I asked her out 2-3 times and got similar excuses of being busy or backing out last minute so I backed off and started wondering why she seemed so genuinely attracted to me, says amazing things to me, is crazy honest with me about everything yet is scared of herself falling too hard for me...seems too good to be true so I gave her space (let's be honest...she asked for it). Like I do, I noticed a problem so I hit the books and learned that I was too available, talking on the phone way to much, letting her call whenever she wanted, texting too much, not giving her time and space to miss me, etc.

Now i knew a few things and i was determined to improve myself so i could get the relationship part of my life on track. One big problem....i really liked this girl which seems to be the hardest ones to cut the nice guy **** out with lol. She is intelligent and in the top 10 of her class at Vanderbilt working toward her LPN license and is a very hard worker. Doesnt drink but laughed that she would be willing to try getting tipsy with me to have fun sex together, she doesnt have a bunch of tatoos or piercings (my preference), very sexual and forward with how attracted she is to me, tells me how well rounded of a man i am, how she loves that she finally met someone mature that she can have genuine conversations with yet still has the inner kid and knows how to have fun, she says she feels safe when she talks to me and all kinds of crap that makes me so confused why she wont simply meet me for a date.

She continues to tell me she knows we wont be able to keep ourselves off of each other and she wants the next man she is with to be the one she marries, she wants to make sure she decides based on her "true feelings" and not based on the crazy lust i make her feel. . . Ok whatever...Over the next year (don't worry I've been dating someone else in the meantime) she keeps in touch with me every 2-4 weeks (I know probably for validation) but she talks to me like we are crazy lovers and she wants a life with me, kids, a house, amazing sex, adventures, shares her goals and dreams, fears, fantasies, stories of when she was a little girl, etc.

This girl has her **** together and I know her career is her priority right now and she says she cant wait to get past this chapter in her life because it's so stressful and busy, but is it possible she really is telling the truth and just wants to finish school before dating again? (Broke up with her ex of 2 years a year before we started talking) After not talking to her for a month or so she will say things like she wonders how long my hair and beard is and wonders if she would like it, tells me I'm such a good and well rounded man ( which I know I am), talks about wanting to be submissive and please me because she has to boss people around all day, loves how I give her space and let her "come to me" even if it's just phone calls. I have read all the dating advice to walk away don't look back etc. If she says she's busy it's just to let me down easy, she's just not that interested and just wants validation, I get it. I'm just curious if there may actually be something to it when she says she knows she will catch feelings and want to marry me if we meet and sleep together.

She hit me up right before Christmas to flirt and tell me she is still not seeing anyone and that she's happy and has done a lot of growth over the past year then called me the next morning and screwed herself on the phone to the sound of my voice and the fantasy of being with me. She called me last week and said she "has feelings of love" for me and "at this point even if i didnt have sexy biceps (she has a bicep fetish) it wouldnt matter because i have power over her and i make her melt just hearing my voice". I hadnt asked her out in about 8 months so i told her to come see me this weekend. She gave me the same story that she knows herself and she wont want to go back home and will want to give up her career and fall in love with me...this is over a year after we first started talking...what gives?

I guess I'm just her fantasy when she is bored and horny to keep her from having to commit to actually dating me and not getting into a relationship with anyone else while she focuses on her career? Maybe shes screwing her ex and just calls me when he pisses her off? Feel free to roast away, but I'm wondering if anyone has any deeper feedback than "just walk away and stop being a simp." Thanks

 

[Black Widow Void]

Welcome aboard.

Yes, you're probably going to get roasted (due not only to content, but length) and so I'll make a quick comment beforehand.

Never become invested in a woman's words. The old saying "actions speak louder than words" is very true -especially with women.

 

[kleathe1]

Welcome aboard.

Yes, you're probably going to get roasted (due not only to content, but length) and so I'll make a quick comment beforehand.

Never become invested in a woman's words. The old saying "actions speak louder than words" is very true -especially with women.

Hahaha well I certainly didn't come here because I have it all figured out already. Thanks for the welcome, roast away.

 

[BeExcellent]

Actions over words. She refuses to meet you so that tells you everything you need to know. Still a hard lesson there, but she is leading you on in the worst way.

Stop investing in this girl. She is milking you for attention at her convenience. Otherwise yall would have met by now. Period.

 

[kleathe1]

I needed this. That's for the support brother.

 

[Kotaix]

I needed this. That's for the support brother.

FYI, BeExcellent is one of the few female members here.

As for your situation, it's painfully obvious that she is struggling to reconcile the "Be a boss b!tch, career woman who don't need no man" propagandistic expectations of modern women with what seems to be a natural desire to be a submissive tradwife.

I hadnt asked her out in about 8 months so i told her to come see me this weekend. She gave me the same story that she knows herself and she wont want to go back home and will want to give up her career and fall in love with me...this is over a year after we first started talking...what gives?

I'd just tell her to come visit you and give up her career and see what happens. She may just want you to prove that you can be the dominant one in a relationship. If that is the case, you'll have to continue that role in the relationship, assuming you want more than just sex with her.

The potential downsides are that she might be crazy and you end up with a clinger, but that's up to you to decide based on your interactions. You also might do damage to her mental state if she throws herself at you and you reject her. Do you actually want her that bad?

 

[BackInTheGame78]

This woman is basically mind fvcking you for her own fun.

 

[kleathe1]

I needed this. That's for the support brother.

Lmao...Sister

 

[kleathe1]

FYI, BeExcellent is one of the few female members here.

As for your situation, it's painfully obvious that she is struggling to reconcile the "Be a boss b!tch, career woman who don't need no man" propagandistic expectations of modern women with what seems to be a natural desire to be a submissive tradwife.


I'd just tell her to come visit you and give up her career and see what happens. She may just want you to prove that you can be the dominant one in a relationship. If that is the case, you'll have to continue that role in the relationship, assuming you want more than just sex with her.

The potential downsides are that she might be crazy and you end up with a clinger, but that's up to you to decide based on your interactions. You also might do damage to her mental state if she throws herself at you and you reject her. Do you actually want her that bad?

I know this is long and I write it just as much for clarifying my own thoughts as for anything else so dont feel like im composing an essay looking for some magical eloquent solution from the board. The solution is simple and its to leave her alone until she puts some action in her words, at which point i can detemine if she is even worth giving the time of day anymore. I've thought about this and it's the type of discussion I hoped to get from joining this forum. I admit there is some confirmation bias in that I gravitate towards opinions I want to hear versus opinions that steer me away from my desires. So here is me trying to be objective while realizing I still have some nice guy traits that I am working to get rid of.

It seemed to me that she is torn between wanting to remain in the top of her class, have all these fancy Dr. Offices throwing offers her way, high paying salaries, possibly of med school etc. And wanting to be this sweet loving woman who can enjoy pleasing her man with her femininity, sensuality, and sexuality, start a family, and have some land and peace away from the congestion of city life. This matches exactly what you said about the boss B vs tradwife. I honestly believe she has created scenarios in her head of both situations and simply doesn't want to choose since she gets (or did get) attention from both scenarios...this is fine as no matter how much I want to fvck her, I don't want an LTR with someone who isn't head over heels for me and willing to take some action to show me. Full disclosure, I do eventually want another LTR and a family, but I'm not rushing into one again.

That being said, the other comments about her just fvcking with me for her own enjoyment certainly have validity because she got to feel like she had my support and attention without having to do anything other than call on occasion, turn on her feminine wiles, and make it seem like sometime in the near future I may get the pleasure of actually playing out the fantasies we discussed...key word fantasies.

Understanding "nice guy syndrome" was a huge breakthrough for me and with some honest self reflection, it was me to a T. It made me feel like a weaker man than I actually was, but I have also reconciled with myself that the mental pendulum was aimed at swinging too far away from Nice Guy. Pook (and many others) talk about the opposite end of the spectrum being the Jerk, with the DJ being somewhere in the middle in embracing lack of attachment and neediness but still being able to be caring and able to emotionally support a woman through a masculine frame by being the rock against which the ocean waves of life and her femininity can crash and not move... I know now that for me, I do ultimately want to be in an LTR, and I don't have to feel like I'm being a weak Nice Guy for wanting that. However, going through this experience quickly showed me that there is still much work for me to do on myself and I have embraced this challenge. It is as if I have watched myself from a third point of view (fly on the wall) with bits of DJ shine through as well as Nice guy tendencies still clinging on as if the nice guy knows he is on the way out, but still desperately holds on for control of my personality.

That's all I've got for now I appreciate the help from this forum and look forward to the day when I don't feel like I need to be here for advice, but rather I can provide my $.02 to help some other AFC get through his own struggles.

 

[hellonwheels]

In addition to the advice “Actions speak louder than words” there’s also the issue with putting this woman on a pedestal based upon how you’re talking about her. Something I can struggle with as well when I really like someone.

Have found it helps when getting those pedestal feelings is to keep notes on things that suck about them.

 

[RBK]

Welcome aboard.

Yes, you're probably going to get roasted (due not only to content, but length) and so I'll make a quick comment beforehand.

Never become invested in a woman's words. The old saying "actions speak louder than words" is very true -especially with women.

"Watch what they do, not what they say"

 

[kleathe1]

In addition to the advice “Actions speak louder than words” there’s also the issue with putting this woman on a pedestal based upon how you’re talking about her. Something I can struggle with as well when I really like someone.

Have found it helps when getting those pedestal feelings is to keep notes on things that suck about them.

You are definitely not wrong about this, and for me it was certainly much more the case when I first met her. I recognize it for what it is and focus on things I don't like about a woman when I catch myself doing it.

It's interesting because it only happens with certain women and of course it's the ones we really like for whichever reason. Some say it is scarcity mindset and in essence I think it is the case, but it doesn't seem to be simply scarcity of women in my life, but rather scarcity of quality women that I see as being worth investing my time in. So basically for me at this stage in life, I need to stop working quite so much, and spend some time getting out doing more things I enjoy because I've put any hope in dating apps at about 5%.

Thanks for your input. It's nice to know others still have similar issues and learn how to handle them rather than just thinking everyone else has it all mastered.

 

[BillyPilgrim]

Troll her back, OP. Send her a vid of you working out your biceps and make her send you nudes.

 

[Dr.Suave]

That girl sounds like a tease. My father (may he RIP) always told me to avoid those.

 

[Bokanovsky]

Coles Notes version of OP's post: He was dumped by his girlfriend of 14 years. Then he "meets" a girl who would only talk to him on the phone and refuses to meet in person (editor's note: she's likely doing it to several other dudes).

Now a word of advice. You seem to be very naive for a 36 yo (likely due to the fact that you were in an LTR for much of your adult life). As such, you will be an easy target for predatory/crazy women like this "top 10 of her class at Vanderbilt" chick. You have to completely change your mindset when it comes to interacting with women. You can only be a victim if you allow yourself to be one. I hope that one day you will hopefully be looking back at the time when you wasted months talking to a chick you hadn't even met and laughing at your own naiveté.

 

[kleathe1]

I agree with this and it took me a while to realize it. Sometimes we just need the cold hard truth. It's one of those situations where I want to kick myself for being so blind but appreciate the experience as it was a springboard to me getting on the right path. I have used and applied what I've learned to my interactions with the girl I'm talking to now, and it's night and day difference what a simple change of mindset does. There is no substitute for experience. I appreciate your input.

 

[Bokanovsky]

I agree with this and it took me a while to realize it. Sometimes we just need the cold hard truth. It's one of those situations where I want to kick myself for being so blind but appreciate the experience as it was a springboard to me getting on the right path. I have used and applied what I've learned to my interactions with the girl I'm talking to now, and it's night and day difference what a simple change of mindset does. There is no substitute for experience. I appreciate your input.

There's no shame in making a mistake as long as your learn from it.