Getting Rejected On First Date Kiss Closes = Move On?

[jamesfromhouston]

Hi everyone.

One thing I have been reflecting on has been how I've handled kclose rejections. I want to know whether my approach is correct:

It's mostly been my personal rule that the first date should always result in at least a kiss close with the girl.

The logic for me is simple if the girl has high interest level and attraction in you, she will be receptive to the kiss close.
(In my mind, high IL + attraction = compliance to intimate escalation)

On the opposite end, if she is only conditionally interested in you and has low interest, she will reject the kiss close.
(In my mind, rejection means that she isn't fully attracted or is playing games or has certain conditions that she seeks).

So generally I go for the kiss close on the first date and if the girl rejects me, I basically move on and don't pursue any further interaction.

But sometimes I wonder whether my approach is right. I've passed on many girls over the recent past because of first date kiss close rejection but I wonder whether I should be more open-minded and relaxed in my rule (am I being too myopic?)

I guess what I am asking is whether you guys think this is a good barometer in dating.

I can anticipate some may argue that sometimes it takes time to generate comfort and attraction for kiss close to happen but on the other hand, I can also anticipate the more RP of you (whom which I align more to) would argue that attraction can't be artificially created, they're either into you or not and anything else would be wasting time with lukewarm women.

What are your thoughts?

 

[manfrombelow]

So generally I go for the kiss close on the first date and if the girl rejects me, I basically move on and don't pursue any further interaction.

What are your thoughts?

Basically I'm with you on this.

A kiss is the least that should happen on the 1st date in terms of sexual and physical attraction. For whatever reasons that a kiss cannot happen during or at the end of the 1st date, it always means low to very low interest level from the other side. So any more investment after that would be a waste of your own resources.

However, if the woman initiates contact after a no-kiss 1st date, then you can give her the benefit of the doubt by asking her out a second time, but that's another story, and you as the man should not sit there crossing your fingers hoping for that to happen.

 

[ThisIsSparta]

I only got rejected once after a first date and i ended up fvcking her 3 weeks later. In that case it turned out to be a control thing from her side.

In my opinion though, there is not allways the situation/atmosphere/location to get a 1st kiss in. If i just had a 1 hour coffee-1stdate to check her out i most of the time didnt go for a kiss. Drinks at night, or dinner at my place is a different story. In general, it wasnt a big deal if it didnt happen on 1st date.

On 2nd date however a kiss is pretty much mandatory, if it doesnt happen, nothing else is going to happen thats worth spending your time with that woman.

 

[Millard Fillmore]

If you break your own rules, she'll see you as a bad boy. j/k

Really I think this depends on the woman and the vibe you're getting and even the manner of rejection. I would just play it by ear and do what you feel.

 

[NorwegianDJ]

Your rules keep you in your head.
The world is no fun in your head, even when you get what you want.
Get out of your head.

 

[pipeman84]

I can also anticipate the more RP of you (whom which I align more to) would argue that attraction can't be artificially created, they're either into you or not and anything else would be wasting time with lukewarm women.

The RP clowns would say that if she doesn't have sex with you after 1st date, she's not attracted to you. She wouldn't have any issues giving Chad a blow-job in the restaurant's bathroom (Rich Cooper story) or have sex just after first meeting you at the foam party in Cancun (Rollo story). That's real attraction and you shouldn't settle for anything less. Yeah right, actually that's drugs, alcohol and mental illness mixed in various proportions.

IMO kiss on first date can't be used as a barometer of attraction. She might very well be attracted to you but also be a reserved and taking things slowly kind of girl ... in this case you shoot yourself in the foot, eliminating the kind of woman best suited for a relationship. On the other hand, she might be a mentally unstable girl with low self esteem who kisses almost any guy who looks half decent and gives her compliments.

 

[SW15]

It's mostly been my personal rule that the first date should always result in at least a kiss close with the girl.

The logic for me is simple if the girl has high interest level and attraction in you, she will be receptive to the kiss close.
(In my mind, high IL + attraction = compliance to intimate escalation)

On the opposite end, if she is only conditionally interested in you and has low interest, she will reject the kiss close.
(In my mind, rejection means that she isn't fully attracted or is playing games or has certain conditions that she seeks).

I guess what I am asking is whether you guys think this is a good barometer in dating.

I think your rule and your barometer make sense.

It is easier to get a kiss during a first date if it is the 2nd total in-person interaction. This is a reason to arrange first dates from some sort of in-person approaching rather than a tech-based method. @jamesfromhouston has been doing some approaching in nightlife venues.

It's more difficult to get a kiss on a first date arranged from a tech-based method because that's the first interaction total. Some women will feel some ASD about kissing in that situation. Plenty of men (including me) have gotten kisses on dates arranged from swipe apps.

I go for the kiss close on the first date and if the girl rejects me, I basically move on and don't pursue any further interaction.

sometimes I wonder whether my approach is right. I've passed on many girls over the recent past because of first date kiss close rejection but I wonder whether I should be more open-minded and relaxed in my rule (am I being too myopic?)

A kiss is the least that should happen on the 1st date in terms of sexual and physical attraction. For whatever reasons that a kiss cannot happen during or at the end of the 1st date, it always means low to very low interest level from the other side. So any more investment after that would be a waste of your own resources.

First date kissing is a must. It shouldn't be the close. The first date kiss needs to happen somewhere in the middle of the date and it needs to be set up from physical touch (aka kino) escalation. If a man doesn't even try a kiss until near the end when the date is concluding, it becomes more difficult to get. From moment 1, use kino escalation to see how far things will escalate. It might even escalate to sex. As the man, you lead. If you're comfortable with first date sex, do it. A lot of times, first date sex isn't the best idea. It depends.

It is good that @jamesfromhouston makes it a goal to kiss on the first date, but that's not an end goal or a close.

It's also good not to offer 2nd dates without a first date kiss at a minimum.

 

[BackInTheGame78]

I’ve never kissed close on the first date, that’s for thirsty dudes.
Btw, leafing out on this forum and will come back with more experience

I strongly disagree with this

 

[SW15]

The RP clowns would say that if she doesn't have sex with you after 1st date, she's not attracted to you. She wouldn't have any issues giving Chad a blow-job in the restaurant's bathroom (Rich Cooper story) or have sex just after first meeting you at the foam party in Cancun (Rollo story). That's real attraction and you shouldn't settle for anything less. Yeah right, actually that's drugs, alcohol and mental illness mixed in various proportions.

It is easier for a 'Chad' to get fast sex from a woman. Women make rules for betas and break rules for alphas. A lot of women seem to men 'Chad' type men with sex in a bar/restaurant bathroom or near a foam party in a nightlife venue/spring break type destination.

I agree that drugs and alcohol can be contributing factors with this. However, a man can get first date sex or close to it without major consumption of drugs or alcohol. A combination of height, muscularity, low body fat, facial aesthetics, and net worth can result in major attraction that could lead to fast sex.

kiss on first date can't be used as a barometer of attraction. She might very well be attracted to you but also be a reserved and taking things slowly kind of girl ... in this case you shoot yourself in the foot, eliminating the kind of woman best suited for a relationship. On the other hand, she might be a mentally unstable girl with low self esteem who kisses almost any guy who looks half decent and gives her compliments.

This is why first date kissing is easier to set up with it being the 2nd overall interaction. A pre-date approach with a 5-15 minute conversation in-person is so meaningful.

On the date, kino escalation will determine if there's enough attraction for a minimum of kissing.

Prudish types won't react well to kino escalation though.

 

[CornbreadFed]

Kiss closing on a first date is insane.

 

[BackInTheGame78]

Kiss closing on a first date is insane.

This might be one of the dumbest things I've ever read on here and that is saying a lot.

 

[obelisk]

First date kissing is a must. It shouldn't be the close. The first date kiss needs to happen somewhere in the middle of the date and it needs to be set up from physical touch (aka kino) escalation. If a man doesn't even try a kiss until near the end when the date is concluding, it becomes more difficult to get. From moment 1, use kino escalation to see how far things will escalate. It might even escalate to sex. As the man, you lead. If you're comfortable with first date sex, do it. A lot of times, first date sex isn't the best idea. It depends.

^This. Context is everything. If you've made no effort at kino during the actual date then you are much more likely to be rejected with the kiss close. Concluding that the women is not worth more of your time is sound logic at that point but it might say far more about you screwing the first date up more than her having had lack of interest.

This has been laid out plenty in RP/PUA across numerous threads. Classic example of why being saying PUA concepts as a whole are useless is misguided.

 

[Pierce Manhammer]

It does baffle me that people don’t take culture into consideration in situations like this.

I’ve asked the OP more than once where these things are occurring and the answer wasn’t specific. And I will ask once again. Where is the preponderance of your experience based? What country? Your sentence construction seems like you are not a native English speaker. I reserve the right to be incorrect about this.

 

[jamesfromhouston]

It does baffle me that people don’t take culture into consideration in situations like this.

I’ve asked the OP more than once where these things are occurring and the answer wasn’t specific. And I will ask once again. Where is the preponderance of your experience based? What country? Your sentence construction seems like you are not a native English speaker. I reserve the right to be incorrect about this.

Every time I start a thread about anything, you'll pop in and ask me where I am or where I've been. I've already answered you several threads back where I've been dating and having these experiences.

You're a moderator. Why are you so obsessed with my exact location and trying to deconstruct my profile? Sosuave is a public forum where anyone can read these threads. Why should I divulge further information here or to you? I have the right to be vague and anonymous about personal information. What are you, the IRS? Have I broken forum rules? If you do not think my threads are valuable or offer insights or you doubt their veracity or don't see the value in my discussions then don't participate. Why interrogate me every single time?

My sentence construction seems like I am not a native speaker and you reserve the right to be incorrect? Wtf dude? Lol. Ok Mr Eloquent. I am sorry my language isn't up to your standards and somehow my experience is culturally detached from yours because of your suspicion as well as the personal requirement for me to verify my identity/location. I've been on SS since 2021. I've done nothing but actively contribute experience and engage in discourse for the value of the community; I do not know why you see a conspiracy in my presence on here.

 

[Pierce Manhammer]

In the grand tapestry of our threads, where wisdom flows like a barely trickling stream, I've sprinkled the groundbreaking revelation—brace yourself—that location and culture might just, ever so slightly, impact the game. Shocking, I know. And before you crown yourself the unique snowflake in this blizzard of insight, let me assure you, you're in good company.

As one of the benevolent overseers of this digital domain, I'm graced with the divine right to my personal opinions, much like you, provided they don't dance on the fine line of our forum rules.

Now, onto your defensive pirouette—truly, there's no need. The spotlight's not on you, no one's pointing fingers. But, just a thought: sprinkling a bit of "where" and "culture" seasoning on your advice-seeking posts might just make them a tad easier to provide you help with. And don't worry, dropping a hint that you're from Yonkers won't suddenly turn you into a celebrity with paparazzi on your tail. Furthermore, no one is criticizing your elocution, which is good - just has hallmarks of not being a native speaker. Breathe.

A girl from Marakesh is going to respond to sexual advances differently from a girl raised in Croatia. No one is requiring you to provide your location, it's simply an ask that is relevant to the discussion.

Does dating advice apply to all men

or is not all dating advice created equal?

www.sosuave.net

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Every time I start a thread about anything, you'll pop in and ask me where I am or where I've been. I've already answered you several threads back where I've been dating and having these experiences.

You're a moderator. Why are you so obsessed with my exact location and trying to deconstruct my profile? Sosuave is a public forum where anyone can read these threads. Why should I divulge further information here or to you? Have I broken forum rules? If you do not think my threads are valuable or offer insights or you doubt their veracity or don't see the value in my discussions then don't participate. Why interrogate me every single time?

My sentence construction seems like I am not a native speaker and you reserve the right to be incorrect? Wtf dude? Lol. Ok Mr Eloquent. I am sorry my language isn't up to your standards and somehow my experience is culturally detached from yours because of your suspicion as well as requirement for me to verify my identity/location.

 

[Dr.Suave]

What are your thoughts?

I dont kiss close the 1st date. I prefer to kiss-open at the start of the third date. Never been rejected this way.

 

[CornbreadFed]

This might be one of the dumbest things I've ever read on here and that is saying a lot.

Guess I’m a virgin. I have zero idea how I attracted my current gf since we kissed on the third date.

 

[BackInTheGame78]

Guess I’m a virgin. I have zero idea how I attracted my current gf since we kissed on the third date.

It doesn't matter what date you kissed on. To say it's "insane" to kiss someone on a first date is nonsensical.

In comparison over my time on OLD, I banged at least 65 women and every single one of them I kissed on the first date. And by kissing on the first date, that happened at varying points, not all at the end.

Now, if you had said something like "that isn't my style, I usually wait to kiss women" then that's fine, I'd be like you do you...to say it's "insane" is a completely different thing. As if no man has ever kissed a woman on a first date before.

 

[The Duke]

For a guy to be successful in seducing and dating women he needs to learn that there are no one size fits all rules for any of this. As @BeExcellent tries to tell you guys all the time, women are not some mathematical equation.

But here we have @jamesfromhouston making statements that look a lot like a mathematical equation to me:

The logic for me is simple if the girl has high interest level and attraction in you, she will be receptive to the kiss close.
(In my mind, high IL + attraction = compliance to intimate escalation)

Your equation doesn't factor in anything about the environment, her mental state, how comfortable she is, how conservative she is, etc. That is why it fails. There is so much more to women. They are all about feels and vibes in that moment. They aren't exactly rational. Math is rational, thats why it doesn't work to understand women. Your approach needs to be more sociological and psychological, than mathematical. Learn to appreciate and understand the nuances.

Focus on learning to read people, read body language, read the room, read the signs, read the vibe, etc. Get good at it and you will know with high accuracy if its appropriate to kiss her or not.

Hard and fast rules can be a beginning point for a guy just starting out, but you really need to develop skills in other areas.

 

[BPH]

I’ve never kissed close on the first date, that’s for thirsty dudes.
Btw, leafing out on this forum and will come back with more experience

Guess I’m a virgin. I have zero idea how I attracted my current gf since we kissed on the third date.

I can't tell if you guys are ****ing kidding...

This might be one of the dumbest things I've ever read on here and that is saying a lot.

Right? Like if kissing on a first date is thirsty, then what's ****ing?

I really need to make mental notes from some of these replies as far as whose advice I should completely ignore.