Game does not work in 2024 - Game is ruining your chances

[SmoothSmooth]

Hi guys
Backstory - I’m a 30 something year old Chad - good looks 6ft2 earning 6 figs
I was raised on pickup culture and have been consistently doing cold approaches and night game over the past 15 years.
I have had good success overall, however only recently have my results really started skyrocketing. I put this down to increase in age (30s are really the most attractive years for men), lifestyle (ability to afford luxury goods) and looks (getting in shape in my late 20s).
Throughout the past 15 years I’ve constantly reflected on my game and results and followed pretty much every respectable dating coach on the internet.

So here’s some points I want to share which I believe to be true

1. the woman chooses the man. In order for a woman to feel confident with her decision to sleep with a man, she must feel like SHE chose HIM, and not vice versa. It’s similar to how women will spend hours and hours shopping for a bag or the perfect pair of shoes, to find something totally unique yet impractical that they show off confidently.
the problem with pickup culture and cold approach is in many cases, it overwhelms the girl with your desire for her. Running up to a girl in the middle of the street, delivering some smooth compliment about her looks and running your stacks, Tom Torero style, does nothing but overwhelm her, which leads her to give out her number out of sympathy/politeness but does nothing to actually generate attraction. The same applies for online dating, where a match occurs and you try to run ‘text game’ to generate attraction (which actually makes her feel like you are choosing her), and therefore everything feels less personal and specific to her own inner fantasies

Mystery method is a lot more effective in this regard, where he talks about opening in a way which seems non-intentional and constantly subcommunicating LACK of intention in your body language (out of all the dating coaches, mystery has the most value to offer for sure)

2) looks and status are king. RSD is completely wrong in this regard, where ‘inner game’ is given the power to overcome all physical challenges. A good looking man with status does not need to obsess about inner game because women will make it 10x easier and constantly forgive lapses and mistakes he makes (see - Chris brown and Rihanna).

On the subject of looks - in order for a woman to respect a man as a viable option, he must be her physical type. See, women talk about types all the time. With men, we assess women looks based on their objective ranking amongst other women, where as women go for types. A guy who is an objective 6 but her type has a higher chance than a guy who is a 9 but not her type. So what is type, exactly? It’s 80% to with race/phenotypes and 20% style/clothing. Some women sexualise Italian looking, brown haired men in smart clothing as the sexual apex. Some women sexualise black athletic men. Some women go for nordic looking men with a skateboarder swag. Some women go for asian K-pop looking men. Her type is often a result of her influences and father figure. When you take money and status out of the picture, most women go for men that look like themselves - this has been my experience and is true based on simple of observation of most couples walking around. Hipster girls date hipster guys. STEM girls date STEM guys. A Chinese hipster guy will have it easy with a Chinese hipster girl. A Middle Eastern STEM guy will have it easy with a Middle Eastern STEM girl.

Most women will consistently prioritise a particular type of man throughout their life. They may deviate when the options-well dries up, but the type will always have priority. For example,if that Middle Eastern STEM girl dates a white American engineer on a whim, she will still remain excited and feminine around the Middle Eastern STEM men she encounters at work. The reason why you need to be a woman’s type, is because most women have a fantasy they want to project onto you. Of course dating coaches avoid this unsexy fact when they sell you the dream that ‘any guy can just get any girl’. Even if you could, her preferences have existed since childhood and will remain dormant in the background.

The problem with most men, is they do not neatly fit into a type.
The closer you to lean towards matching the conventional aesthetic of a type, the faster your results skyrocket. Being too unique in your style (eg rsd Tyler or mystery) or being too regular/everyday white guy in your style (eg james tusk) will make it much more harder for her sexualise you than conforming to a pre-existing popular culture archetype that she is interested in (eg LA skaterboy or upstate club scene DJ)

Any man that has sufficiently improved his looks, style and status will attest that these things are paramount in skyrocketing the quality and quantity of his dating options. Most dating coaches lie to their audience, and overemphasise ‘game’ and personality to make money, because working on your looks and status can legit take 3-4 years of hard work, discipline and focus.

3) beautiful women are fiercely independent agents in the mating process. This is the most important point that coaches hide. Healthy women with options cannot be ‘gamed’ into bed. You cannot ‘raise a woman’s attraction’ if she already has attractive options pursuing and courting her. You instead need to become one of these options. Women will decide within the first 5 seconds of meeting you whether they potentially want to sleep with you.

4) 99% of dating coaches are complete sociopathic pathological liars. When you hear a man speaking of a high body count in the 100s, having beautiful women on rotation or Chads sleeping with all the women etc he is playing on your insecurities to make you pay for his product. The truth of the dating market is that even famous men go through the same BS.
Women by nature are wired to intensely screen men and gain commitment/power in their interactions with men. I have a friend who is a club promoter in NY and he has first hand seen Justin beiber get rejected by average looking girls and being called a ‘creep’.
Do women have one night stands and hookups? Yes, many of them do. But it’s usually very random, sporadic/unplanned and often done when they are on holiday eg spring break or a random night out after a break up. therefore, you cannot teach someone how to control or obtain this outcome beyond being good looking, going out loads, talking to loads of women, swiping on lots of women and hoping to get lucky.

Doesn’t sound fun, does it? Going out to clubs, till the late night, talking to loads of women until you find the one that is dumb enough to let you smash … or swiping on apps relentlessly until you find the one post-breakup girl thats desperate for some D. Well, that’s the reality of ‘getting consistent hook ups’. It is actually much more appealing and logical for men to find one reliable partner - a beautiful woman to give you sex consistently and with emotion, than to bang a bunch of random 6’s for 10x the effort, 10x the rejections, worse quality sex and at the opportunity cost of being a man that’s attractive to the top tier women (200 nights outs to get 4 hooks up with 6’s…could instead have been spent at the library working on your business or local sports team and led to meeting a 9)

5) top tier women have boyfriends. Chateau heartiste was the only PUA honest and open about this. Girls that are 8’s 9’s and 10’s (yes, 10’s do exist!) are ABLE to secure commitment from alpha males - they are ABLE to get the full package, so your little gimmicks and games in the hopes to secure a quick lay are futile. These women see casual sex as detrimental to their SMV and social standing, and would not find it appealing when they can easily secure sex with the top men AND get commitment/respect. To get these women you need to build rapport, build trust, have great conversation and a lot going for you. It relies 100% on genuine attraction and genuine compatibility which cannot be bought or taught (flexing money etc will not work either).

6) Attractive men screen women. Ie - ‘game’ tactics and PUA coaches often exclusively attract women with personality disorders - specifically sociopathic or narcissistic/BPD women. Most of the techniques taught - such as withholding validation, negging, ‘raising attraction’ are all geared towards women with personality disorders.
In reality, they should be teaching you how to screen for and attract healthy women, with healthy attachment styles. Do you want to seduce the village dumpster or do you want to spend your time with someone you can feel proud about and that feels proud about you? Being with girls with personality disorders will destroy you in the long run (look at will smith, jonny depp etc) and completely skew your sense of self worth. Healthy women care more about genuine connection, trust, good conversation, rapport/sharing empathy, rather than your ‘spikes’ and attempts at ‘escalation’ which are seen as odd, try hard and manipulative.

Guys that are genuinely attractive will not interact with 1000 girls hoping to get a 1 or 2 notches (desperation). Instead they will talk to a few women with zero intent/motivation. just making good conversation, and allow the woman to win him over/prove herself a good catch, with her femininity and how she makes him feel about himself.
Attractive alpha males go for women that appreciate and respect their simple conversation and time (because that’s the level of respect they are used to), not for women that are making it hard and forcing them to play games for their bare minimum

 

[SmoothSmooth]

7) and finally…
Leagues. Leagues are very real. Yeah, on holiday a 6 might hookup with a 8 and not tell anyone. But in the real world, girls are aware of leagues - socially and in dating.
this means that as you become more attractive, your dating pool shrinks. Yes! As a male 9, you now get harshly rejected by girls that consider you out of their league! So guys that 8s and above - attractive well groomed and successful - will get better results talking to women that are 9s and 10s than girls than are 8s or the same level/slightly below themselves! But there are very few of these women to go around, so when you find one, you’re probably going to commit for fear of loss! A high value man therefore isn’t swimming in sex with new women, because his option pool is much smaller. He gets hotter women, but he latches onto them when the opportunity arises.

You become insanely polarising now - harshly rejected by some women and absolutely adored by others.

When it comes to formal dating, women actually DO go for men in their league or only slightly above! a female dancer will date a male dancer instructor, a female doctor is going to date a male doctor, but a female dancer is going to feel insecure dating a male doctor and is much more likely to date a more skilled dancer she can relate to!

Remember women are hard wired for commitment on some capacity, and if she isn’t better than you in some way - eg looks, she will see you as a threat with an ulterior motive. Women are often prideful and purposefully withhold validation to men that are more attractive than them so the man doesn’t get an ego around her.

if a girl is used to dating a particular type of man - eg a fairly handsome guy with an average income, a guy who is extremely handsome with a high income is going to put her in a state of auto rejection.

a girl who is a 9/10, in her fantasies, expects herself to be dating phenomenal winners and will truly appreciate his success. A girl who is a 7/10, may just fantasise about meeting a very handsome but socially humble man that puts her on a pedestal. The women at the top are usually models (the female heirachy is mainly based on looks but also education). They therefore have the smallest dating pools of suitable contenders, and thus very much appreciate a man who has built himself up to the top league, because such a man is huge a rarity.
As a guy who is an 8/9, you may be thinking a girl is an 8 because she has many redeeming qualities, but in reality she is a 7, and she auto rejected you because she can see you pulling more beautiful women than her.

On the internet, they talk about unrestricted hypergamy, but this is simply not the case. A woman does not want a man that looks down on her and feels he can do better than her. Girls will date men they are familiar with, men that match their social circles and family expectations, and most women have very realistic expectations based on their own dating experiences. Dating app swipes do not reflect the real world, dating apps are like video games for women and most matches lead nowhere.

 

[CheekyMonkey101]

This is a very good post.

All that comes down to it is making the best use of what you've got and filtering out girls who are attracted to you who you're attracted to as well. Trying to "win" over a woman with game and other things means you've already lost. It's best to find women with genuine desire, otherwise it's all a facade. Easier said than done, but that's how things are. Women are the selectors.

Being like Yad Daygame and acting like a complete bufoon does you no favours. You'll just be a dance monkey to her entertainment.

 

[SW15]

What is your definition of Game? My definition is that Game is any combination of looks, money, status, and personality used to seduce womene. I perceive that you have mistitled this. I think you're referring more towards the personality/charisma type elements of Game. If you are, I'm more inclined to agree. Looks + money are the most important elements of Game as I define the term Game.

1. the woman chooses the man. In order for a woman to feel confident with her decision to sleep with a man, she must feel like SHE chose HIM, and not vice versa. It’s similar to how women will spend hours and hours shopping for a bag or the perfect pair of shoes, to find something totally unique yet impractical that they show off confidently.
the problem with pickup culture and cold approach is in many cases, it overwhelms the girl with your desire for her. Running up to a girl in the middle of the street, delivering some smooth compliment about her looks and running your stacks, Tom Torero style, does nothing but overwhelm her, which leads her to give out her number out of sympathy/politeness but does nothing to actually generate attraction.

Valid point. If you're running street type game (including urban walking paths where I tend to do street game in my city), you don't want to do the typical azz clown type move where you run them down, turn your body around, and face them. Females have caught on to that and it is considered cringe now. A better approach on the streets/walking paths is approaching them from the opposite direction and then commenting about something unique about what they are wearing or some accessory they have. A lot of those street/walking path conversations will go nowhere but still better than the cringe approaches. Someone is more likely to have a longer approach that generates attraction with the approach style I describe. In general, street/park/path approaching is difficult. Women are also wearing earbuds a lot to reduce outdoor approaches or walking paths in groups with 1-2 other females too. It's possible to stop a Group of 2 of females on a walking path (I've done it) but more difficult.

2) looks and status are king. The problem with most men, is they do not neatly fit into a type.

Any man that has sufficiently improved his looks, style and status will attest that these things are paramount in skyrocketing the quality and quantity of his dating options. Most dating coaches lie to their audience, and overemphasise ‘game’ and personality to make money, because working on your looks and status can legit take 3-4 years of hard work, discipline and focus.

We basically agree on this, though I called it looks + money.

I think the best generalized look for pickup is 6'0"+ with lower body fat + some muscle definition.

Looks are #1 & it will likely take an extended time to enhance. Dating coaches can't really sell that. Money becomes a more important part of the equation when a man is 35+.

It is actually much more appealing and logical for men to find one reliable partner - a beautiful woman to give you sex consistently and with emotion, than to bang a bunch of random 6’s for 10x the effort, 10x the rejections, worse quality sex and at the opportunity cost of being a man that’s attractive to the top tier women (200 nights outs to get 4 hooks up with 6’s…could instead have been spent at the library working on your business

Agree on this in general. That one reliable partner often has a shelf life of around 3-5 years or so. Even if a man gets a reliable partner for a 2-5 year time period, that consistent sex is more advantageous than constantly seeking new shorter term casual sex.

5) top tier women have boyfriends. Chateau heartiste was the only PUA honest and open about this. Girls that are 8’s 9’s and 10’s (yes, 10’s do exist!) are ABLE to secure commitment from alpha males - they are ABLE to get the full package, so your little gimmicks and games in the hopes to secure a quick lay are futile. These women see casual sex as detrimental to their SMV and social standing, and would not find it appealing when they can easily secure sex with the top men AND get commitment/respect. To get these women you need to build rapport, build trust, have great conversation and a lot going for you. It relies 100% on genuine attraction and genuine compatibility which cannot be bought or taught (flexing money etc will not work either).

I agree that top tier women (7.5+) are able to secure commitments from top tier type males.

In general, when a man is approaching these top tier females, he's approaching a time when she has a boyfriend and isn't truly in the market for new penis/a new boyfriend.

I'll give a example. A man goes to a fitness class at a big name chain brand studio (e.g. SoulCycle, Title Boxing). The class is majority female (70%+). He'll try to do some post-class approaches on the most attractive women . Most females will ignore him and/or barely respond to his openers. They won't outright say anything but most of them will already have boyfriends.

This happens in venues other than fitness class studios too. Happens in the grocery stores, malls, outdoor parks/paths, and a general gym floor.

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Think about this thread below....

Rankings of Every Way You Can Meet a Woman According to a YouTube Channel

Here is the complete list, ranked in order of best to worst: S-Tier: - Throwing an event or party - Instagram Cold DM- Creating Content on Instagram and Boosting it - Paying a club promoter to introduce you to women - Being famous, even just small-time locally famous - Being a musician A-Tier...

www.sosuave.net

According to this, we spend most of our time using substandard methods for trying to arrange first dates and/or find sex partners. Standard daygame methods, nightgame methods, and swipe apps (outside 90th percentile + men) are least effective.

 

[SmoothSmooth]

PUA culture teaches you to see dating as a adversarial/conflict scenario, which involves one upping, analysis and manipulation, which is how it is with women that have personality disorders (it’s called antagonistic attachment style). Your and her status is constantly being assessed and the goal is to win. If she rejects you, your status has been compromised (rather than it being a lack of physical chemistry or compatibility)

In reality for healthy people, dating is a predictable, easy going, rapport and comfort building experience, a unique connection being built with someone who finds you INTERESTING. Someone that cares and values your thoughts and opinions because they see you as valuable to them - versus you being useful to them. She dates you because you are her type, in her league and have similar interests. She values this because it’s very hard to meet people on that wavelength, she isn’t looking to replace you. Someone with a personality disorder has ‘‘object inconsistency’ - constantly fluctuating feelings and lack of stable identity, they are constantly comparing you and basing your overall worth on how you make them feel in that particular moment.

Most of PUA’s have admitted to having mothers with personality disorders.

Healthy women are very negatively attuned to perceived slights and status-grabs which pua culture marks as ‘alpha’ behaviour

 

[SW15]

Most of PUA’s have admitted to having mothers with personality disorders.

I'm guessing that you're talking about the big name PUAs, not the average student of the big name PUA influencers.

I made a similar thread about this a couple of years ago.

Why Have So Many Well Known Pickup Artists Had Major Personal Issues?

Tom Torero: Has a scandal surrounding non-consensual recordings. Dies unexpectedly. Family confirms his death was a suicide. Roosh: Sister dies of breast cancer. Leads to emotional breakdown. Has a religious conversion and condemns pickup, seduction, and all non-marital sex. Neil Strauss: Was...

www.sosuave.net

In reality for healthy people, dating is a predictable, easy going, rapport and comfort building experience, a unique connection being built with someone who finds you INTERESTING. Someone that cares and values your thoughts and opinions because they see you as valuable to them - versus you being useful to them. She dates you because you are her type, in her league and have similar interests. She values this because it’s very hard to meet people on that wavelength, she isn’t looking to replace you. Someone with a personality disorder has ‘‘object inconsistency’ - constantly fluctuating feelings and lack of stable identity, they are constantly comparing you and basing your overall worth on how you make them feel in that particular moment.

True. Fewer people are emotionally healthy. It isn't easy to find an interaction like this that leads to a longer term relationship.

 

[SmoothSmooth]

When a normal, healthy woman is attracted to a man, his frame is validated from the start. She finds this man interesting and validates this, allowing him to easily take the masculine role and feel comfortable in his status with her and move onto more interesting things like getting to know each others inner world and having fun on dates. His interest is appreciated and consistently reciprocated.


A woman with a personality disorder is constantly invalidating and toying with your frame (even subtly), and many PUA tactics are based around trying to navigate this dynamic. Alpha/beta, push pull, dhv, spike, emotional distance etc are all attempts to regrab frame after being invalidated

a high value guy does not continue any interaction where he feels he is not being afforded full respect, simply because he has other options that will make it very clear that they appreciate his compliments, effort and attention. He is not going to try to prove or regain his frame as an attractive option. He is afforded it from the very start by many women.

as a general rule of thumb, if you have to do anything more than have good conversations, be smooth, mysterious, positive, insightful, interesting, well groomed and respectful (ie deliver value) to get laid, then you’re either interacting with a toxic person or the wrong person.

 

[CornbreadFed]

1. the woman chooses the man

Agreed

2) looks and status are king.

Absolutely, the Red Pill/Manosphere often overlooks this crucial aspect and simplifies attraction to just a couple of archetypes. It's frustrating to see men striving to emulate a particular "Chad" or type, only to find themselves unsuccessful. This topic definitely deserves a thread on its own!

The problem with most men, is they do not neatly fit into a type.

That's the primary factor leading men down the path to frustration, whether it's adopting an incel or gymcel mentality. They lack a defined personality type or struggle to cater to one effectively. While there's a market for every male personality type, many incels attempt to pursue women who desire a stereotypical Chad or Golden Retriever type, often idealized from their experiences in high school or college. Despite efforts to improve physical appearance, wealth, or consuming RP/Manosphere content, these women won't be attracted to them. It's time to accept reality and move forward.

3) beautiful women are fiercely independent agents in the mating process. This is the most important point that coaches hide. Healthy women with options cannot be ‘gamed’ into bed. You cannot ‘raise a woman’s attraction’ if she already has attractive options pursuing and courting her. You instead need to become one of these options. Women will decide within the first 5 seconds of meeting you whether they potentially want to sleep with you.

Agreed

4) 99% of dating coaches are complete sociopathic pathological liars.

This is a debatable subject. At the end of the day, these coaches are salesmen, and they are adapting to their customers or market trends. Coaches offer bits and pieces of advice that are useful, but they should be 100% taken for their word though.

5) top tier women have boyfriends.

Absoulety! The only girls running around letting themselves get dubai porta-pottied are trashy women. In addition, the RP/Manosphere bases their content and frustration off these women to fuel their cope and downwards spiral.

6) Attractive men screen women.

Indeed, it's not just about attractive men, but a wide range of men who screen potential partners. Many men have standards and are selective in their dating choices, but this reality can get lost in the Red Pill bubble.

Guys that are genuinely attractive will not interact with 1000 girls hoping to get a 1 or 2 notches (desperation).

Agreed

Leagues. Leagues are very real. Yeah, on holiday a 6 might hookup with a 8 and not tell anyone.

1000000% agreed

 

[Hamurabimbi]

Hi guys
Backstory - I’m a 30 something year old Chad - good looks 6ft2 earning 6 figs
I was raised on pickup culture and have been consistently doing cold approaches and night game over the past 15 years.
I have had good success overall, however only recently have my results really started skyrocketing. I put this down to increase in age (30s are really the most attractive years for men), lifestyle (ability to afford luxury goods) and looks (getting in shape in my late 20s).
Throughout the past 15 years I’ve constantly reflected on my game and results and followed pretty much every respectable dating coach on the internet.

So here’s some points I want to share which I believe to be true

1. the woman chooses the man. In order for a woman to feel confident with her decision to sleep with a man, she must feel like SHE chose HIM, and not vice versa. It’s similar to how women will spend hours and hours shopping for a bag or the perfect pair of shoes, to find something totally unique yet impractical that they show off confidently.
the problem with pickup culture and cold approach is in many cases, it overwhelms the girl with your desire for her. Running up to a girl in the middle of the street, delivering some smooth compliment about her looks and running your stacks, Tom Torero style, does nothing but overwhelm her, which leads her to give out her number out of sympathy/politeness but does nothing to actually generate attraction. The same applies for online dating, where a match occurs and you try to run ‘text game’ to generate attraction (which actually makes her feel like you are choosing her), and therefore everything feels less personal and specific to her own inner fantasies

Mystery method is a lot more effective in this regard, where he talks about opening in a way which seems non-intentional and constantly subcommunicating LACK of intention in your body language (out of all the dating coaches, mystery has the most value to offer for sure)

2) looks and status are king. RSD is completely wrong in this regard, where ‘inner game’ is given the power to overcome all physical challenges. A good looking man with status does not need to obsess about inner game because women will make it 10x easier and constantly forgive lapses and mistakes he makes (see - Chris brown and Rihanna).

On the subject of looks - in order for a woman to respect a man as a viable option, he must be her physical type. See, women talk about types all the time. With men, we assess women looks based on their objective ranking amongst other women, where as women go for types. A guy who is an objective 6 but her type has a higher chance than a guy who is a 9 but not her type. So what is type, exactly? It’s 80% to with race/phenotypes and 20% style/clothing. Some women sexualise Italian looking, brown haired men in smart clothing as the sexual apex. Some women sexualise black athletic men. Some women go for nordic looking men with a skateboarder swag. Some women go for asian K-pop looking men. Her type is often a result of her influences and father figure. When you take money and status out of the picture, most women go for men that look like themselves - this has been my experience and is true based on simple of observation of most couples walking around. Hipster girls date hipster guys. STEM girls date STEM guys. A Chinese hipster guy will have it easy with a Chinese hipster girl. A Middle Eastern STEM guy will have it easy with a Middle Eastern STEM girl.

Most women will consistently prioritise a particular type of man throughout their life. They may deviate when the options-well dries up, but the type will always have priority. For example,if that Middle Eastern STEM girl dates a white American engineer on a whim, she will still remain excited and feminine around the Middle Eastern STEM men she encounters at work. The reason why you need to be a woman’s type, is because most women have a fantasy they want to project onto you. Of course dating coaches avoid this unsexy fact when they sell you the dream that ‘any guy can just get any girl’. Even if you could, her preferences have existed since childhood and will remain dormant in the background.

The problem with most men, is they do not neatly fit into a type.
The closer you to lean towards matching the conventional aesthetic of a type, the faster your results skyrocket. Being too unique in your style (eg rsd Tyler or mystery) or being too regular/everyday white guy in your style (eg james tusk) will make it much more harder for her sexualise you than conforming to a pre-existing popular culture archetype that she is interested in (eg LA skaterboy or upstate club scene DJ)

Any man that has sufficiently improved his looks, style and status will attest that these things are paramount in skyrocketing the quality and quantity of his dating options. Most dating coaches lie to their audience, and overemphasise ‘game’ and personality to make money, because working on your looks and status can legit take 3-4 years of hard work, discipline and focus.

3) beautiful women are fiercely independent agents in the mating process. This is the most important point that coaches hide. Healthy women with options cannot be ‘gamed’ into bed. You cannot ‘raise a woman’s attraction’ if she already has attractive options pursuing and courting her. You instead need to become one of these options. Women will decide within the first 5 seconds of meeting you whether they potentially want to sleep with you.

4) 99% of dating coaches are complete sociopathic pathological liars. When you hear a man speaking of a high body count in the 100s, having beautiful women on rotation or Chads sleeping with all the women etc he is playing on your insecurities to make you pay for his product. The truth of the dating market is that even famous men go through the same BS.
Women by nature are wired to intensely screen men and gain commitment/power in their interactions with men. I have a friend who is a club promoter in NY and he has first hand seen Justin beiber get rejected by average looking girls and being called a ‘creep’.
Do women have one night stands and hookups? Yes, many of them do. But it’s usually very random, sporadic/unplanned and often done when they are on holiday eg spring break or a random night out after a break up. therefore, you cannot teach someone how to control or obtain this outcome beyond being good looking, going out loads, talking to loads of women, swiping on lots of women and hoping to get lucky.

Doesn’t sound fun, does it? Going out to clubs, till the late night, talking to loads of women until you find the one that is dumb enough to let you smash … or swiping on apps relentlessly until you find the one post-breakup girl thats desperate for some D. Well, that’s the reality of ‘getting consistent hook ups’. It is actually much more appealing and logical for men to find one reliable partner - a beautiful woman to give you sex consistently and with emotion, than to bang a bunch of random 6’s for 10x the effort, 10x the rejections, worse quality sex and at the opportunity cost of being a man that’s attractive to the top tier women (200 nights outs to get 4 hooks up with 6’s…could instead have been spent at the library working on your business or local sports team and led to meeting a 9)

5) top tier women have boyfriends. Chateau heartiste was the only PUA honest and open about this. Girls that are 8’s 9’s and 10’s (yes, 10’s do exist!) are ABLE to secure commitment from alpha males - they are ABLE to get the full package, so your little gimmicks and games in the hopes to secure a quick lay are futile. These women see casual sex as detrimental to their SMV and social standing, and would not find it appealing when they can easily secure sex with the top men AND get commitment/respect. To get these women you need to build rapport, build trust, have great conversation and a lot going for you. It relies 100% on genuine attraction and genuine compatibility which cannot be bought or taught (flexing money etc will not work either).

6) Attractive men screen women. Ie - ‘game’ tactics and PUA coaches often exclusively attract women with personality disorders - specifically sociopathic or narcissistic/BPD women. Most of the techniques taught - such as withholding validation, negging, ‘raising attraction’ are all geared towards women with

My favorite ‘dating guru’, Assanova, has said this. I generally agree. Game is basically. don’t be a weirdo.

 

[Jesse Pinkman]

I disagree with a lot of this thread as someone who used to be a part of the normal world and then turned to PUA. The reality is that most Chads, if you notice and really look around, are settling for women below their looks scale. The problem is not that game doesn't work, it is just that you are likely doing it wrong. Just a few things to point out.

Yes, looks and status do matter, but both are also under your control.

Most men can easily get to being a 7 by all accounts, you don't need to have the perfect genetics for it. The Black Pill will never tell you this and neither will anyone harping about "archetypes". Status however is very subjective and can change from crowd to crowd and group to group. I have been around enough normal people though to understand that the average dude or even anyone who is a "Chad" is not actually slaying to the degree you think they are, a lot are just flat out settling.

Archetypes are mostly BS.

I think archetype are the new Aspie way to blame everything on race because everyone knows dudes blaming race. Yes, girls might be partial to a certain kind of a guy but they also change by the moment. She might want some dude who looks like her brother until she is out one night and a guy approaches her at the right time, now she is going home with him. Women have regularly slept with dudes who are not their archetype.

The hot girls taken stuff is also kind of BS.

Most in big cities are just casually shopping around and plenty will leave their boyfriend if a better guy comes around. That is the modern way.

 

[CornbreadFed]

Archetypes are mostly BS.

I think archetype are the new Aspie way to blame everything on race because everyone knows dudes blaming race. Yes, girls might be partial to a certain kind of a guy but they also change by the moment. She might want some dude who looks like her brother until she is out one night and a guy approaches her at the right time, now she is going home with him. Women have regularly slept with dudes who are not their archetype.

I think when it comes to sex only, archetypes are BS. Yes, women will sleep with men outside their archetype to fool around or maybe they got tricked by the guy. As a black guy, I have been able to sleep with white women in the cleat/status chaser archetype, only dates white men archetype, and even lesbian archetype lol. However, it has never amounted to anything past a one-night stand or a difficult relationship where she is constantly in her bvtchy feminine mode because you are not the guy she wanted at the end of the day. Afterwards, you see her in a relationship with the archetype guy she wanted or permanently single because she could not obtain this guy. If you are looking for sex alone then yes archetypes are complete BS I agree. However, if you are looking for something more than sex then you will have to take archetypes in to full account.

 

[Plinco]

This is the wrong approach. Don't think of it as there is a separation of game, looks, or status, just like there is no separation of mind and body. They all go together.

 

[characternote]

of course, but then, it didn't 'work' in 2023 either. Or 2000. Ever, in fact lol

People were lied too by PUA coaches and stuff who wanted you to believe that if you just use the 'right verbals', in the right order/stage of an interaction, along with good body language etc, then you can get the girl. Even if you are old and bald and she's 18, thinks you're an old ugly guy who she's not attracted too, and who likes skinny guys with long floppy hair who are handsome and 'around' her age lol. In truth, that old dude running his game is invisible to her

But none of this is surely news to anybody here? I thought the whole 'game'/PUA thing died out years ago? I mean, even on PUA sites! (like this one) it's not as if anyone ever talks about verbals and techniques and 'negs' and cold reads and ablablabla is it?

If someone posts a thread asking about girls or how to get a girl, I know what the replies here will be. It'll be along the lines of ''get in better shape. Get better looking. Hit the gym more, And make more money'' - none of which is 'game' in the classic sense of the word

This became very obvious to me (and others i'd spoken too at the time) when you really start to properly watch infields. Looks at the patterns carefully. Look at their lays. And look at their rejections. In short, the girls they bang are 'yes girls' who essentially liked how they looked and were thus receptive to their approach. Their 'game' simply never worked when they opened a girl who decided (before he'd opened his mouth) that she wasn't interested in him. It's simply a numbers game.

 

[Plinco]

If someone posts a thread asking about girls or how to get a girl, I know what the replies here will be. It'll be along the lines of ''get in better shape. Get better looking. Hit the gym more, And make more money'' - none of which is 'game' in the classic sense of the word

It depends on what you define game as. If game is similar or the same in concept to having good social skills, then doing the above helps with game.

 

[SmoothSmooth]

I think when it comes to sex only, archetypes are BS. Yes, women will sleep with men outside their archetype to fool around or maybe they got tricked by the guy. As a black guy, I have been able to sleep with white women in the cleat/status chaser archetype, only dates white men archetype, and even lesbian archetype lol. However, it has never amounted to anything past a one-night stand or a difficult relationship where she is constantly in her bvtchy feminine mode because you are not the guy she wanted at the end of the day. Afterwards, you see her in a relationship with the archetype guy she wanted or permanently single because she could not obtain this guy. If you are looking for sex alone then yes archetypes are complete BS I agree. However, if you are looking for something more than sex then you will have to take archetypes in to full account.

Exactly. A ONS is about what D1ck is available in that given night, within close proximity and is the most obviously highest value based what she can see then and there. So any good enough looking guy can potentially smash if she is adamant on having sex that particular moment.

beyond that, being her archetype is 95% of the battle. Most women lust after the same type of dude over and over. Girls create their entire personalities around being appeasing to the archetype of man they want to date.

 

[SmoothSmooth]

of course, but then, it didn't 'work' in 2023 either. Or 2000. Ever, in fact lol

People were lied too by PUA coaches and stuff who wanted you to believe that if you just use the 'right verbals', in the right order/stage of an interaction, along with good body language etc, then you can get the girl. Even if you are old and bald and she's 18, thinks you're an old ugly guy who she's not attracted too, and who likes skinny guys with long floppy hair who are handsome and 'around' her age lol. In truth, that old dude running his game is invisible to her

But none of this is surely news to anybody here? I thought the whole 'game'/PUA thing died out years ago? I mean, even on PUA sites! (like this one) it's not as if anyone ever talks about verbals and techniques and 'negs' and cold reads and ablablabla is it?

If someone posts a thread asking about girls or how to get a girl, I know what the replies here will be. It'll be along the lines of ''get in better shape. Get better looking. Hit the gym more, And make more money'' - none of which is 'game' in the classic sense of the word

This became very obvious to me (and others i'd spoken too at the time) when you really start to properly watch infields. Looks at the patterns carefully. Look at their lays. And look at their rejections. In short, the girls they bang are 'yes girls' who essentially liked how they looked and were thus receptive to their approach. Their 'game' simply never worked when they opened a girl who decided (before he'd opened his mouth) that she wasn't interested in him. It's simply a numbers game.

You know game and pua is BS because even on pua sites like this…90% of the posts are about guys complaining about getting laid and how hard dating is lol.

The truth has always been - the woman selects the man. The best you can do is look as good as possible and be as interesting/high status as possible, and just be normal.

people just don’t want to put the years of work in to become high value and interesting and they will never experience what it is like to be CHOSEN by women

 

[ManlyMan]

Agree with OP.

Owen Cook type guys are not going to be able to go to they gym and maximize his looks. Not all guys are going to benefit from that. So agree with the vibe topic he talks a lot about as well.

 

[zekko]

A good looking man with status does not need to obsess about inner game because women will make it 10x easier and constantly forgive lapses and mistakes he makes (see - Chris brown and Rihanna).

Very interesting post. I suddenly realize I am going on my 25th year on this forum . I would say for about the first 20 years, it seemed like I just kept hearing the same things over and over and over. PUAs really tried to put everything into a one size fits all formula. Some of it I agreed with, and some of it I didn't, but there was a very definite point of view that kept getting repeated here. Then in maybe the last five years or so, it has changed, and you don't hear so much of it anymore. Now it seems more like it's all "Women today suck, life sucks, there's nothing you can do about it, so have sex if you can, and don't get too close to anyone" or something like that.

I guess the real reason for the change is the PUA fad is over. You don't see all those PUA gurus trying to sell their books and sites so much. Politics and things like the #MeToo movement have given them a bad name. There are still guys (and gals) on YouTube giving advice. But it's not the big business it used to be, it's not as common.

Now the part I quoted, where you mentioned Chris Brown and Rihanna. I'm sure in the past guys would have jumped out of the woodwork to tell you that she was attracted to him because he mistreated her. That used to be a big theme here and in the manosphere. If you didn't treat the girl bad, she would think you were a "nice guy" and she would leave you for some piece of garbage that did. Now certainly some women seek out abusive men, but these women by and large have issues, and should be avoided. I like that you put their relationship on looks and status instead.

 

[Hamurabimbi]

Attractive guys don’t need coaches or game (Just don’t be too weird or creepy) to get girls. I think we all know that. But guys who aren’t attractive need something. If not Game…what? As an example, my Hapacel friend has neither looks nor Game. Though he makes decent money & travels & has many friends (male & female). He is still a -Cel.

 

[The Duke]

Attractive guys don’t need coaches or game (Just don’t be too weird or creepy) to get girls. I think we all know that. But guys who aren’t attractive need something. If not Game…what? As an example, my Hapacel friend has neither looks nor Game. Though he makes decent money & travels & has many friends (male & female). He is still a -Cel.

I was friends with a Chad before. At bars, I witnessed many young attractive females approach him. So many times he stood there and had no idea what to say. Like a deer in the headlights. The girls would ask me if he had a girlfriend or what was wrong with him.

I had no problem engaging these females. I was happy to be their 2nd choice. Hahaha.