Changes in game I am noticing in 2024.

[Jesse Pinkman]

Could just be US or Miami specific but ever since the end of 2023 and start of 2024, I am noticing some changes in game and the kinds of guys who are getting results vs. men that are not.

1. Social media has become almost paramount if you want to get women under the age of 30. In fact, every guy I know doing well with the 18-28 demographic has a well above average IG.

2. The apps have become a pay to play model and there is serious deflation in matches for almost all dudes I know. Hinge seems to work best but really, the fun is in an app like Raya or any exclusive app you can get into. Even gaming a site like Seeking is yesterday's news as a lot of women have caught on to this thanks to Myron Gaines from Fresh & Fit becoming famous for ripping women off of the site.

3. Women have become more aggressive and started to approach you more if they like you, I notice this a lot with younger women. We get opened more and it was not that common back in my day. Maybe guys who were older a decade ago and around younger women can give their take?

4. Nightlife is dying out from what it used to be. Way more high-end sit down places and way less clubs and bars where you can just meet women. Could be a Miami thing so maybe others from other cities can chime in. Way more places where you have to get a table rather than a place you can show up to and game. In fact, even promoters are being replaced by this app called "Tabler".

5. Women are becoming b1tchier during the day so daygame is less and less viable. I feel like it could be due to the creep culture with women showing off how guys watch them in the gym or something but women are not down to being cold approached as much during the day. Way more airpods and headphones in for women who just do not want to be bothered.

6. WAY HARDER to get a SNL, less and less common from all guys in game I talk to. You are more likely, be it nightgame or daygame, you get a Day 2 lay. SNLs are not nearly as frequent as they used to be for some reason.

7. It is almost like the entire dating market is waiting for its next real breakthrough that isn't common. First it was the rise of Tinder and Swipe Apps which led to older dating sites going on the shelf. As of right now, no app has unseated the Big 3 Dating Apps and that has led to this stagnation in the online dating market and overall market as a whole.

I will share more observations later.

 

[sangheilios]

@Jesse Pinkman

I agree with some of these points you mention and there are a few I want to address. Many of the observations you are making are related to the COVID lockdowns.

The whole nightlife scene never really recovered from the COVID lockdowns. I've seen tons of posts online of people mentioning this throughout many metros. In the metro area I'm currently at, I've seen a lot of reviews, comments or whatever you want to call them about the nightlife scene here and none of them were good. I saw a lot of comments about how things were nowhere near as good as Pre-COVID and that the atmosphere was terrible. I also recall seeing a lot of comments about how it's become much trashier and filled with ghetto people lol. Something particular I've been seeing is a lot of things about fights happening at clubs a lot here, even shootings, etc.

Over the last couple years I've heard a lot of people complain about Vegas and how the vibe and atmosphere there is just not the same, and this is a huge club/party area in the country.

With your comment about women being bitchier, I think there is something to this. During the lockdowns people became socially isolated, or at least far more than what they were used to. The weeks and months go by and the next thing you know you've become a shut in and basic social interaction has become more of an effort. People essentially became less social and more inward focused, isolated, shut in, etc. When you get into a pattern like this it can become incredibly difficult to break. What you are seeing is not so much dating related but more related to just basic social interactions.

Your comments about apps really haven't changed, apps have been trash for a long time.

Social media being a big deal is kind of meh in my opinion. Unless you are some sort of athlete or celebrity, this really isn't going to be much of a game changer unless you are willing to dive head first into the whole instagram phoney craziness. I would honestly steer clear of this.

People right now are NOT dating and are having substantially less sex than you probably realize, there are tons of stats to back this up btw. This has been a growing trend for well over a decade now and when COVID comes in it greatly accelerated it. The 2020s and 2030s are going to be an interesting time.

 

[Slowhandluke]

As of right now, no app has unseated the Big 3 Dating Apps and that has led to this stagnation in the online dating market and overall market as a whole.

Match group owns most dating apps and they are stifling innovation in order for them to get more $$$$. They have been buying competitors in the past when competitors get big enough.

Yes, the world is ready for a new paradigm. It will happen. Its only a matter of time.

 

[ManlyMan]

I have noticed a lot less approach invitations during the day. Almost none. At least one woman at all times wearing sun glasses in the store as if they do not want men to look at them in the eyes or something. The vibe has definitely shifted. pre-covid women were a lot more friendlier vibe pre approach and now they seem cold and distant. Also the demographics have changed a lot due to political stuff.

 

[Slowhandluke]

I have noticed a lot less approach invitations during the day. Almost none. At least one woman at all times wearing sun glasses in the store as if they do not want men to look at them in the eyes or something. The vibe has definitely shifted. pre-covid women were a lot more friendlier vibe pre approach and now they seem cold and distant. I figured it had to do with them watching something on social media. Because in reality men do not approach women in stores very often if not ever. Maybe just depression as there is a lot political turmiol and of course Covid. Also the demographics have changed a lot due to political stuff.

Women are trying to figure out what to do. Be the independent boss biatch... or listen to the tradcons/youtubers saying that they are making a mistake trying to be independent. Also, the economy is getting worse. People are getting laid off - I think more women then men because laying off a male plumber is harder than laying of a female "lifestyle" writer.

Also, women are still getting pumped and dumped by the minority of men:

Chicago man sues 'Are we dating the same guy?' Facebook page

A Chicago man is filing a lawsuit after a 'Are we dating the same guy?' Facebook page outed him for his alleged red flag behavior.

www.dailymail.co.uk

In all honest, it's really a shiet show for women right now. Not wanting to be approached makes sense to me after being in situationships after situations with chads. In other news, I went on a 2 week vacation NOT in the west. The women are happier there and much nicer. Such a nice change of scenery. After the trip, it has really showed me how entitled women here in the states are... also, they don't take care of themselves here.

 

[Bingo-Player]

7. It is almost like the entire dating market is waiting for its next real breakthrough that isn't common. First it was the rise of Tinder and Swipe Apps which led to older dating sites going on the shelf. As of right now, no app has unseated the Big 3 Dating Apps and that has led to this stagnation in the online dating market and overall market as a whole.

The next breakthrough won't be an app it will cycle back to IRL events and connection there may be some online element to organising but generally people I feel are starting to tire of online interaction

I talked to a lot of women IRL in 2023 I learnt a lot

Women dont like "pick up" they never have done even when they were largely unaware of it , the art was always picking them up without them realising it

It is a females job to seduce its in her feminine nature to try and gain all your attention

somewhere along the lines we have fvcked that dynamic up

Now Women are much much more aware of pick up These days and a lot of men are stereotypical cliches when it comes to dating either fvck boys / simps or Incels

Men all over the world are messaging women on dating apps with crap like

" hey whatsup " , "What you do for work" , " YOU'RE REALLY PRETTY "

ITS FVCKING BORING I dont blame women for switching off and becoming despondent

 

[Slowhandluke]

Men all over the world are messaging women on dating apps with crap like

" hey whatsup " , "What you do for work" , " YOU'RE REALLY PRETTY "

ITS FVCKING BORING I dont blame women for switching off and becoming despondent

In the past when the internet didn't exist, and the average woman saw 1 or 2 guys in her social circle/network, it was a compliment and she enjoyed it. Now she thinks that she deserves only the chads. The following is the type guy that will stand out to most women. Lying works.

Chicago man sues 'Are we dating the same guy?' Facebook page

A Chicago man is filing a lawsuit after a 'Are we dating the same guy?' Facebook page outed him for his alleged red flag behavior.

www.dailymail.co.uk

Remember the Tinder swindler? If you are an honest, average guy, you will fail in online dating. Why would an average girl pick an average guy with average looks when she can have her "dream man"? An average man can use any imaginative line possible, but it's uphill battle against someone who is willing to lie; or a genuine Chad that wants to play the field. A great, attractive, successful guy who wants a LTR will be removed from the dating market fairly quickly. What is left are the liars and the people who just want sex. I think average women are starting to realize this.. and it's causing some inner turmoil. Some thousand yard stares... and well, when that happens, women become less responsive.. hell, people become less responsive when they have the thousand yard stares.

I think it's happening. I thought it might take 5 years for the average woman to see how they are being used and abused. But now, it might take only a couple of years. When I was younger, women didn't seem so stupid. After being pumped and dumped by 1 or two guys, they went and dated their "match".. Ultimately, most married and are happy. Current girls have been dating above their level. It's like "hopes spring eternal" for these women. But they seem to be noticing a "trend"

 

[SW15]

1. Social media has become almost paramount if you want to get women under the age of 30. In fact, every guy I know doing well with the 18-28 demographic has a well above average IG.

When Roosh wrote The Future of Game in 2010, he was predicting the next 20 years of Game (2010-2030)

The Future Of Game

He wrote that "Game Plus Fame Will Be More Important Than Anything". This is what you are observing with social media. A man needs a very strong IG to compete on IG. A man needs more Followers than accounts he's Following to succeed on IG. 50 Followers and 30 Following is a good ratio but too small. Women want something like 1,000+ Followers while only Following less than 40% of the Follower count.

3. Women have become more aggressive and started to approach you more if they like you, I notice this a lot with younger women. We get opened more and it was not that common back in my day. Maybe guys who were older a decade ago and around younger women can give their take?

This hasn't happened to me 2022-2024. Perhaps it has to do with things specific to me. I rarely ever have women approach me in person. I don't think I've been approached by a woman since prior to 2020.

There could be validity to the idea that Bumble has empowered women to start interactions and that has translated into the real world.

A decade ago, I was 30. Some of my interactions were with women 21-25. They were younger but not substantially younger. Women 21-25 then weren't approaching me in person then.

Today, at 40, I have some interactions with women 25-35. I am substantially older than a 25 year old now. I'm not being opened by women in their early to mid 20s now.

5. Women are becoming b1tchier during the day so daygame is less and less viable. I feel like it could be due to the creep culture with women showing off how guys watch them in the gym or something but women are not down to being cold approached as much during the day. Way more airpods and headphones in for women who just do not want to be bothered.

I have noticed this but it isn't a 2023-2024 thing. It's a trend that's gone on much longer.

The general gym floor has been dominated by earbuds/headphones for a long time. Around 2003-2004, I noticed in my college gym that the most attractive women were wearing earbuds with their early stage iPods but the majority of women weren't. By 2011, I noticed that almost all women were wearing earbuds on the general gym floor, and that is still true in 2023-2024.

Women are far more likely to wear earbuds/headphones on the general gym floor than men.

There is the fitness class workaround with earbuds/headphones. While fitness classes offer great ratios for men, women who attend fitness classes are not very sociable before/after classes. This is a not a 2023-2024 trend, this is something I noticed as far back as the early 2010s.

Women outdoors use earbuds/headphones to discourage approaches more and more. It's difficult to do park or walking path approaches because of earbuds/headphones. This is a trend that long precedes 2023-2024. This was going on in the 2010s.

In 2017-2019, I noticed more women appearing in grocery stores with earbuds. I've not seen this as frequently in 2022-2024. Indoor masking killed grocery store and mall game in 2020-2022. People are now open to being approached indoors again since 2022 but there's still somewhat of a hangover from the 2 years where indoor masking was common and indoor retail venue game was hurt.

I still think there's an advantage to non-bar approaching as compared to using a swipe app. Non-bar approaching in general is difficult and often unproductive for a lot of reasons.

4. Nightlife is dying out from what it used to be. Way more high-end sit down places and way less clubs and bars where you can just meet women. Could be a Miami thing so maybe others from other cities can chime in. Way more places where you have to get a table rather than a place you can show up to and game. In fact, even promoters are being replaced by this app called "Tabler".

I believe this. I haven't done much nightlife in recent years as the majority of my social connections are married men. Not only are they married men, they are also married men with children under 5 in most cases. I don't have anyone available to go to nightlife venues with me. Going solo to nightlife venues isn't that great either. While I have done it and have successfully approached while going solo to a nightlife venue, it's not enjoyable and I don't recommend it.

Nightlife venues seem to be hosting more swipe app dates than being places where people meet. Friday and Saturday nights after 8 PM would be few swipe app dates, since most people aren't going to do a first or second date during those time slots.

With swipe apps and DMs on Instagram being so accepted now, there's less of a perceived need to use bars to meet people.

I have noticed a lot less approach invitations during the day. Almost none. At least one woman at all times wearing sun glasses in the store as if they do not want men to look at them in the eyes or something. The vibe has definitely shifted. pre-covid women were a lot more friendlier vibe pre approach and now they seem cold and distant. Also the demographics have changed a lot due to political stuff.

This is a problem I've noticed in Game as far back as the early 2010s. I noticed in the 2010s that I was getting fewer IOIs as compared to the 2000s. Millennial women were very poor at signaling interest. The rise of smartphones and earbuds had a lot to do with this. People are more absorbed in their own digital worlds. Real life body language stuff is fading. Gen Z is continuing this trend first established in the Millennial generation.

 

[CornbreadFed]

Gen Z men literally all look like NPCs with their broccoli hair or fade cuts and vapes. In addition, they don't have any game or personality whatsoever.

 

[SW15]

In the past when the internet didn't exist, and the average woman saw 1 or 2 guys in her social circle/network, it was a compliment and she enjoyed it. Now she thinks that she deserves only the chads. The following is the type guy that will stand out to most women. Lying works.

In the pre-internet era, women had less abundance. As a result of having less abundance, they had more reasonable standards. With women getting more abundance, they are only seeking top tier men. It used to be the Top 20% men but now there's evidence that it is getting closer to the Top 10%.

If you are an honest, average guy, you will fail in online dating. Why would an average girl pick an average guy with average looks when she can have her "dream man"? An average man can use any imaginative line possible, but it's uphill battle against someone who is willing to lie; or a genuine Chad that wants to play the field. A great, attractive, successful guy who wants a LTR will be removed from the dating market fairly quickly. What is left are the liars and the people who just want sex. I think average women are starting to realize this.. and it's causing some inner turmoil.

If you're a younger guy (mid-40s and younger), you have to be Top 10-20% to even bother doing online dating. That's how skewed the market is that this point. Guys who are only average to slightly above average are struggling big time on the swipe apps. They become pussie beggars and have a lot of "one date, no sex, no second date" type interactions where the woman ghosts him after the first date or gives him the "I had a good time but do not see this going anywhere" text. Average to slightly above average guys have to work hard for the privilege of getting ghosted or text rejected without sex after a first date. It's now worth.

Average Millennial women spent the 2000s and 2010s rejecting average Millennial men. Average Millennial men became so discouraged. When women spend 20 years rejecting average men, it changes market dynamics.

 

[Bingo-Player]

or a genuine Chad that wants to play the field. A great, attractive, successful guy who wants a LTR will be removed from the dating market fairly quickly.

Women are more switched onto chads than you think they do well with a specific type of woman ( low quality ) but any with an ounce of class or self esteem will stay well away from them

Great attractive and successful guys are not common , they are extremely rare and usually wont be found on dating apps because they will have good social circles and networks which bring them women naturally

Dating apps are now just a cess pit of people nobody else wants , you may find a diamond in the dirt occasionally but your gonna need to dig through a lot of sh1t to find it so much its not worth it

Just go out interact with people and social circles will build naturally

A 20 y/o HB 7 literally messaged me on insta last night because she recognised me in the gym and thought I was hot now we are going on a date and it will probably be sex straight away

we would never have met on a dating app becuase theres a 10 year ago gap between us and neither of us are on them

 

[Smok1nAce]

All I know is women are inherently becoming more insecure. Could be just me but you cant banter with them or throw innuendos. Its as if there constantly stuck in their head. I usually notice this with the 6s and below. Any type of flirting and they immediately direct the conversation or try ball busting.

They 7s and above, like you said are very direct and make it easy.

I've also more people jumping onto swipe apps.

 

[Solomon]

Could just be US or Miami specific but ever since the end of 2023 and start of 2024, I am noticing some changes in game and the kinds of guys who are getting results vs. men that are not.

1. Social media has become almost paramount if you want to get women under the age of 30. In fact, every guy I know doing well with the 18-28 demographic has a well above average IG.

2. The apps have become a pay to play model and there is serious deflation in matches for almost all dudes I know. Hinge seems to work best but really, the fun is in an app like Raya or any exclusive app you can get into. Even gaming a site like Seeking is yesterday's news as a lot of women have caught on to this thanks to Myron Gaines from Fresh & Fit becoming famous for ripping women off of the site.

3. Women have become more aggressive and started to approach you more if they like you, I notice this a lot with younger women. We get opened more and it was not that common back in my day. Maybe guys who were older a decade ago and around younger women can give their take?

4. Nightlife is dying out from what it used to be. Way more high-end sit down places and way less clubs and bars where you can just meet women. Could be a Miami thing so maybe others from other cities can chime in. Way more places where you have to get a table rather than a place you can show up to and game. In fact, even promoters are being replaced by this app called "Tabler".

5. Women are becoming b1tchier during the day so daygame is less and less viable. I feel like it could be due to the creep culture with women showing off how guys watch them in the gym or something but women are not down to being cold approached as much during the day. Way more airpods and headphones in for women who just do not want to be bothered.

6. WAY HARDER to get a SNL, less and less common from all guys in game I talk to. You are more likely, be it nightgame or daygame, you get a Day 2 lay. SNLs are not nearly as frequent as they used to be for some reason.

7. It is almost like the entire dating market is waiting for its next real breakthrough that isn't common. First it was the rise of Tinder and Swipe Apps which led to older dating sites going on the shelf. As of right now, no app has unseated the Big 3 Dating Apps and that has led to this stagnation in the online dating market and overall market as a whole.

I will share more observations later.

#1 may be true for Miami/NYC/LA etc but in the small midwestern town women don't really give a shyt even the smokeshow's everyone knows social media is "Cap" aka "Smoke N Mirrors" I know in Miami it matters
#2 Apps have been dead for awhile still find a PYT on Bumble and other apps but now you have to stand out more i.e be good looking
#3 I remember recently a woman approached me that we matched on Bumble and we were supposed to go on a date but she ghosted me, she didn't recognize talk about awkward. I noticed my friends who are attractive or socially well-known tend to get approached a lot. Myself not so much unless I'm dressed up on some Don Draper shyt
#4 @sangheilios covered it will, covid killed nightlife, in my area once quarantine lifted there was a brief surge in going out as women were stir crazy and people were happy to meet others, however a lot of clubs/bars died and the nightlife is not the same as pre-covid not even close. You're better of watching HBOmaxx with a plate or by yourself on a saturday night
#5 like @SW15 this is a trend that's been happening upwards the last decade and half. I remember women use to go out in 2006 to meet men even if they didn't like you they were polite post "IphoneERA" now you approach a woman if she doesn't like you, "You're a creep" and will get treated as such
#6 Most girls that go out aren't going out anymore to meet men, they already have a boyfriend/FWB situation or husband women are now going out to drink with friends or attention. There use to be bars/clubs in my area called "Meat Markets" were it was known you could hook up if you looked good or had tight game. These places are virtually all dead now
#7 is scary but true,the online dating bubble has burst unfortunatley the next bubble will be the "AI dating" bubble once ai robots come out in 2040/2050s it's a wrap. Viritual girlfriends are already a thing. There is a crypto company that went up 20X because of their app, not financial advice but it retraced and will make many rich, virtual ai girlfriends are a real thing that are already popular among incels and ignored men

Gen Z men literally all look like NPCs with their broccoli hair or fade cuts and vapes. In addition, they don't have any game or personality whatsoever.

Hate to say this but Gen-Z most of them are socially awkward AF and lazy. They don't have the social savynesss as previous generations and are dealing with "stunted growth" because of tech and covid, IMO. Heck I know a guy who is a mentee of mine and he does very well with girls he's also a millionaire but he still lacks social savyness at times, not saying he's awkward not at all but sometimes talking to him is pulling teeth. If you have your stuff together dating Gen-Z chicks is easy, they are simple girls who like to have fun and some like to watch anime lmfaooo

Women are more switched onto chads than you think they do well with a specific type of woman ( low quality ) but any with an ounce of class or self esteem will stay well away from them

Great attractive and successful guys are not common , they are extremely rare and usually wont be found on dating apps because they will have good social circles and networks which bring them women naturally

Dating apps are now just a cess pit of people nobody else wants , you may find a diamond in the dirt occasionally but your gonna need to dig through a lot of sh1t to find it so much its not worth it

Just go out interact with people and social circles will build naturally

A 20 y/o HB 7 literally messaged me on insta last night because she recognised me in the gym and thought I was hot now we are going on a date and it will probably be sex straight away

we would never have met on a dating app becuase theres a 10 year ago gap between us and neither of us are on them

I agree with this, successful guys can't be bothered using dating apps unless they are in a drought or trying to do some covert cheating but to each it's own. Dating apps have become a cess pit like you said with girls who are low quality even the pretty ones

There is a positive though for all of this if you as a guy truly have your shyt together, body-wise, money-wise, logistics etc. Meeting and getting women in 2024 is easier than it's every been. The competition in regards to most of our fellow men is really lackluster. Even if you're not the best-looking guy you can clean up. I do think Lifestyle matters in 2024 more than ever this may go inline with the Instagram thing @Jesse Pinkman is talking about, but I can assure you if you level up the access to the quality women you get will change dramatically. If you're 35+, smoking weed all day, out of shape making 35K a year or living in your mom's basement on sosuave crying about not getting a chick you're not in the game

 

[DonJuanjr]

Could be just me but you cant banter with them

I've noticed this as well. Getting offended over the dumbest shjt. Like they forgot how to be social, and went gamma.

 

[MatureDJ]

Yes, the world is ready for a new paradigm. It will happen. Its only a matter of time.

NewParadigmHopeCope.

 

[Jesse Pinkman]

There is a positive though for all of this if you as a guy truly have your shyt together, body-wise, money-wise, logistics etc. Meeting and getting women in 2024 is easier than it's every been. The competition in regards to most of our fellow men is really lackluster. Even if you're not the best-looking guy you can clean up. I do think Lifestyle matters in 2024 more than ever this may go inline with the Instagram thing @Jesse Pinkman is talking about, but I can assure you if you level up the access to the quality women you get will change dramatically. If you're 35+, smoking weed all day, out of shape making 35K a year or living in your mom's basement on sosuave crying about not getting a chick you're not in the game

Great point Solo and I am actually going to do a post on this as in the past 2 years, I have gamed with "PUAs" and game guys as well as guys who seriously have it together. There are differences I have noticed in terms of results as well as how they approach life and women. Man, you bring out the best in me alongside @SW15 and @CornbreadFed. Would not be the same without you guys.

 

[Slowhandluke]

.

NewParadigmHopeCope.

things change... they always do... from match makers, to personal ads in newspapers... then on video cassettes, then the internet.

things that don't work fall to the waste side.

 

[FlexpertHamilton]

What the fvck is up with guys saying they leave SoSuave but then return? Imagine telling a girl to fvck off and then call her the next day.

Addiction probably. Traditional message boards aren't much different than social media, just toned down.

 

[MatureDJ]

.

things change... they always do... from match makers, to personal ads in newspapers... then on video cassettes, then the internet.

things that don't work fall to the waste side.

I like how the 2nd chick has a big slice of chocolate cake. Harridans really need to CookingMax to stand out. If I saw a gal on Tinder that advertised herself that way, I'd be very motivated to get with her.

 

[Solomon]

I've noticed this as well. Getting offended over the dumbest shjt. Like they forgot how to be social, and went gamma.

Women imo are also suffering from "stunted growth" hence the lack of Social awareness Millennial women have and lack of social skills from Gen-Z being a lady is truly starting to become a lost art. Gen-Z women have some of the worse dress styles I have seen since the 80s (which makes sense cause a lot of their dress style is inspired from that era lmfaooo)

Great point Solo and I am actually going to do a post on this as in the past 2 years, I have gamed with "PUAs" and game guys as well as guys who seriously have it together. There are differences I have noticed in terms of results as well as how they approach life and women. Man, you bring out the best in me alongside @SW15 and @CornbreadFed. Would not be the same without you guys.

Yup I recommend anyone who is having issues with women find a solid guy who is good with women and study
This helped me out a ton in 2006 before I got here. I know it's not easy to make friends but networking should be in every man's arsenal even if it's not a "friend" a "Mentor" a "wingman" who can give you some honest critique. I think this helps the learning curve tremendously although personally, I stay away from PUA types these days. I've met some before even on the forums and they are not always the best to learn from as some have personal issues that they need to deal with that have nothing to do with women