When do you call for a second date?

[sosuave213]

Doesn't sound promising but I guess we will see what happens. TBH sounds like you are the backup to the backup again with this one.

High interest women don't make it so hard to get them out again, they make it easy. Almost too easy, as in "I'm free any day this week, let me know what works for you".

She seems to be giving you a lot of obstacles and it's never a good thing to hear "I don't know" if she is free on day that you ask. To me that means "Let me see what other offers I get and I'll let you know Monday night".

Perhaps you should start asking "what's your schedule look like next week for getting together?", and then that way she could give you days she is available and you could pick one that works.

In this interaction she gives you "I don't know" and then you go into scramble mode.

Lessen the degree of difficulty and make things easier for yourself.

Also, stop falling in love with women after 1 date. You don't know anything about them or "how great" they are. You CERTAINLY couldn't know if she is "quality" or "diamond status" yet.

You are pedestalizing women you don't even know. Stop it. It hurts your ability to properly screen women and it hurts your ability to maintain the proper frame in date and between dates. The women also sense and feel this which doesn't work in your favor.

Bro. It's the holidays. Don't you have family that comes over for like two weeks?

Anyways there's no race to the finish line if she's worth keeping in touch for a second date. I'm not strictly interested in poon. I can look for that anywhere.

You are right that I am pedestalizing too soon. Any tips for fixing that? But don't ignore my earlier points either.

 

[BackInTheGame78]

Bro. It's the holidays. Don't you have family that comes over for like two weeks?

Anyways there's no race to the finish line if she's worth keeping in touch for a second date. I'm not strictly interested in poon. I can look for that anywhere.

You are right that I am pedestalizing too soon. Any tips for fixing that? But don't ignore my earlier points either.

So what if she did? No I don't have family that comes over for two weeks and even if I did that sure as hell wouldn't be an obstacle to seeing someone for a few hours one day. They can survive if a person has something else planned for a few hours. Would probably be a welcome break for both sides of they are staying that long.

You want to see it a certain way, I'm just telling you the more likely scenario is that she is waiting for a better option on that day based on the interaction. Or is simply stalling you out until she has someone she is more interested in make her an offer. This just means you aren't her first choice and she will likely be looking to replace you even if she goes on a few more dates with you. Just my opinion based on the interaction and my experiences in the last in these situations.

The easiest way to do it is by viewing yourself as the prize and not them. They need to be having those thoughts about YOU, not the other way around. They should be trying to prove all those things to you while you withhold judgment until you see a longer pattern of behavior from them. Not in a d!ckish way, just in a "we'll see" way.

 

[sosuave213]

So what if she did? No I don't have family that comes over for two weeks and even if I did that sure as hell wouldn't be an obstacle to seeing someone for a few hours one day. They can survive if a person has something else planned for a few hours. Would probably be a welcome break for both sides of they are staying that long.

You want to see it a certain way, I'm just telling you the more likely scenario is that she is waiting for a better option on that day based on the interaction. Or is simply stalling you out until she has someone she is more interested in make her an offer. This just means you aren't her first choice and she will likely be looking to replace you even if she goes on a few more dates with you. Just my opinion based on the interaction and my experiences in the last in these situations.

The easiest way to do it is by viewing yourself as the prize and not them. They need to be having those thoughts about YOU, not the other way around. They should be trying to prove all those things to you while you withhold judgment until you see a longer pattern of behavior from them. Not in a d!ckish way, just in a "we'll see" way.

Do you ever give good news?

 

[SW15]

Well, I called just now and didn't get an answer. Left a voice mail.

This is why I tend to avoid calling newer women. Voicemail is a problem and voicemail return rates have always been low. The voicemail/answering machine problem was a common problem for men from the 1960s until the mid-2000s when text messaging took off.

Millennials dislike voicemail (see 2014 article below) and I doubt Gen Z'ers like it any more than Millennials have. In general, I only leave voicemails for people I already know who have a propensity to actually return voicemails. Some of my friends/acquaintances won't actually return a phone call/voicemail.

https://www.npr.org/sections/alltechconsidered/2014/10/23/358301467/please-do-not-leave-a-message-why-millennials-hate-voice-mail

If you really want to use the phone to have a live conversation, it is better to arrange a time via text message for a phone conversation so that you aren't strung along in voicemail jail.

It usually takes some time to learn a woman's communication preferences. I like phone calls a lot but never before I've had a conversation with a woman about her communication preferences. I like to see where her preferences and my preferences overlap.

I think a lot of phone call game is going to continue to fade in forthcoming years. Phone calls even in non-romantic social settings are declining too.

 

[9-3enthusiast]

Yes, the phone-call is a dying medium.
Even at my age (60)
I've recently started seeing a new woman (51) - A Bumble pickup, late October.
After a few back and forths on Bumble, I suggested moving off it and SHE suggested a phone-call... which lasted around 45 mins with her being the one keeping it going (so I suspected high-interest)

However, as we have developed, the contact is almost always by text now - Occasional phone-calls, but rare.
She's a serial texter.. lots of emojis, GIFs, etc... and almost always initiates... she looks good for her age, could pass for early/mid 40s, and the seks is great - Also she's made time to be together several times over the holiday period... so all good right now.
I strongly suspect that the first (long) phone-call was her initial screeening method....

If a woman in my target demographic is such a texter... I can only imagine how rare actual phone-calls are in younger age groups....

 

[SW15]

If a woman in my target demographic is such a texter... I can only imagine how rare actual phone-calls are in younger age groups....

I'm 40 years and have primarily been interacting with women younger than I am since I turned 25. I found that 25 was the age where I could reliably find women younger than I am.

In the early 2010s, I moved to a new city as a late 20s unattached man. I started to really notice then with women in their mid to late 20s that it was getting unreasonably difficult to get women on phone calls. I had to adapt my game at that point in time.

Today, as a 40 year old, I still notice that getting women 40 and under on the phone for a voice conversation is difficult for new women. Even some women close to age 40 are not very inclined to use phone calls even in a more established interaction.

 

[BackInTheGame78]

Do you ever give good news?

When it's warranted.

There is a common theme in the interactions you have posted about.

1) You are almost in love puppy dog style with these women after one date. Stop that. It makes you seem weak n their eyes and you are making a lot of mistakes that you aren't aware of because of it.

2) You are invested in these women far, far more than they are invested in you. This is completely backwards from how it should be. A woman should have to work to earn this from a man. That's what helps them feel you have value, when they have to work to earn it. You are literally giving away the store for free the second they walk in the door and they believe you have little value because of it and they feel something is off.

3) You are viewing these interactions thru rose-colored glasses of what you want to see. That's a common thing, we have all done it. I, however, am not and providing you with what I see from a distance. Which is these women are low interest or on the fence by their actions when you ask for a follow up date. You don't want to see that, but you need to so you can think clearly and understand that 1 and 2 is likely leading this at least partially.

 

[sosuave213]

When it's warranted.

There is a common theme in the interactions you have posted about.

1) You are almost in love puppy dog style with these women after one date. Stop that. It makes you seem weak n their eyes and you are making a lot of mistakes that you aren't aware of because of it.

2) You are invested in these women far, far more than they are invested in you. This is completely backwards from how it should be. A woman should have to work to earn this from a man. That's what helps them feel you have value, when they have to work to earn it. You are literally giving away the store for free the second they walk in the door and they believe you have little value because of it and they feel something is off.

3) You are viewing these interactions thru rose-colored glasses of what you want to see. That's a common thing, we have all done it. I, however, am not and providing you with what I see from a distance. Which is these women are low interest or on the fence by their actions when you ask for a follow up date. You don't want to see that, but you need to so you can think clearly and understand that 1 and 2 is likely leading this at least partially.

Ok. So why did she bother listening to my voicemail and calling back at 10:30pm... even in the first date she discussed that she sees her family often and stays in touch with them.

No chick that's not interested will call back from a voicemail at 10:30pm.

I'm also a new guy in her life and her family has been around as long as she was alive, her parents were together until death, and she's the most confident chick I've dated thus far.

The only thing you're right about is that I'm way too easy, and you still haven't provided any solutions or recommendations to snap out of puppy love. Reported to the mods for spamming.

 

[BackInTheGame78]

Ok. So why did she bother listening to my voicemail and calling back at 10:30pm... even in the first date she discussed that she sees her family often and stays in touch with them.

No chick that's not interested will call back from a voicemail at 10:30pm.

I'm also a new guy in her life and her family has been around as long as she was alive, her parents were together until death, and she's the most confident chick I've dated thus far.

The only thing you're right about is that I'm way too easy, and you still haven't provided any solutions or recommendations to snap out of puppy love. Reported to the mods for spamming.

Who knows why. It's not relevant. You continue to do mental gymnastics to see things the way you are determined to see things.

You'll learn eventually, or you won't. That's up to you, I can't do it for you. I can only lead the horse to water, I can't force it to drink. You believe everything a woman tells you it seems in a naive sort of way.

I was like that too at one point in my younger years. Unfortunately, this is not the ideal mindset to have when dating/screening women. I had to learn this thru many failed interactions/dates with women who seemed interested early on and then seemingly cooled quickly.

I actually have provided you them. Date more women. Before you set up a 2nd date with her you should have set up at least 2 dates with other women you have been talking with and gotten at least 3 more numbers from new women.

Did you do that? Your focus should ALWAYS be on building and expanding your pipeline of women first and foremost. More messages lead to more numbers lead to more dates lead to more lays lead to more abundance lead to more potential women wanting to be your girlfriend.


If you did, your focus should not be so laser-like on her. You are operating from a scarcity mindset right now. A woman does not want to be with a man because she is his only option. She wants to be with a man who chooses her among his many options. The result is the same, but how and why it gets to that point is subtly but very importantly different.

Make no mistake, women KNOW when a man has options and when they don't. They can almost smell it like a shark smells blood in the water. It permeates your entire being and your every action and interaction with them.

Cool on the report, I'll let the other mods handle that.

 

[BackInTheGame78]

I'm 40 years and have primarily been interacting with women younger than I am since I turned 25. I found that 25 was the age where I could reliably find women younger than I am.

In the early 2010s, I moved to a new city as a late 20s unattached man. I started to really notice then with women in their mid to late 20s that it was getting unreasonably difficult to get women on phone calls. I had to adapt my game at that point in time.

Today, as a 40 year old, I still notice that getting women 40 and under on the phone for a voice conversation is difficult for new women. Even some women close to age 40 are not very inclined to use phone calls even in a more established interaction.

I almost always ask if they like talking on the phone or how they prefer to communicate. Makes life easier.

If they say they like talking on the phone I'll engage them that way every so often.

 

[SW15]

I almost always ask if they like talking on the phone or how they prefer to communicate. Makes life easier.

If they say they like talking on the phone I'll engage them that way every so often.

I find it is a good practice to discuss communication preferences with a woman early on in the interaction. You're correct that it does make life easier. I will initially lean toward text messages until I find the time to have the conversation about preferences.

 

[sosuave213]

Who knows why. It's not relevant. You continue to do mental gymnastics to see things the way you are determined to see things.

You'll learn eventually, or you won't. That's up to you, I can't do it for you. I can only lead the horse to water, I can't force it to drink. You believe everything a woman tells you it seems in a naive sort of way.

I was like that too at one point in my younger years. Unfortunately, this is not the ideal mindset to have when dating/screening women. I had to learn this thru many failed interactions/dates with women who seemed interested early on and then seemingly cooled quickly.

I actually have provided you them. Date more women. Before you set up a 2nd date with her you should have set up at least 2 dates with other women you have been talking with and gotten at least 3 more numbers from new women.

Did you do that? Your focus should ALWAYS be on building and expanding your pipeline of women first and foremost. More messages lead to more numbers lead to more dates lead to more lays lead to more abundance lead to more potential women wanting to be your girlfriend.


If you did, your focus should not be so laser-like on her. You are operating from a scarcity mindset right now. A woman does not want to be with a man because she is his only option. She wants to be with a man who chooses her among his many options. The result is the same, but how and why it gets to that point is subtly but very importantly different.

Make no mistake, women KNOW when a man has options and when they don't. They can almost smell it like a shark smells blood in the water. It permeates your entire being and your every action and interaction with them.

Cool on the report, I'll let the other mods handle that.

The chick had a blast. She couldn't keep her hands off me, look at the texts she's sending afterwards and she did not want the date to end.

We also kissed many times of course, she felt my d!ck on her leg in one of these occasions when I hugged her from the side and kissed her, No make out which was strange but perhaps OK.

This is in contrast to the last girl which in the first date was one makeout and three disinterested kisses at best, and she showed no enthusiasm to take it further, in fact telling me to "take it easy". I got no resistance this time.

I'm not worried at all about the future.

 

[BackInTheGame78]

The chick had a blast. She couldn't keep her hands off me, look at the texts she's sending afterwards and she did not want the date to end.

We also kissed many times of course, she felt my d!ck on her leg in one of these occasions when I hugged her from the side and kissed her, No make out which was strange but perhaps OK.

This is in contrast to the last girl which in the first date was one makeout and three disinterested kisses at best, and she showed no enthusiasm to take it further, in fact telling me to "take it easy". I got no resistance this time.

I'm not worried at all about the future.

That's great. The problem is you assume this means there is a 95-100% chance of a 2nd date happening when the truth is it's a 0-100% chance. The expectations men have after dates like this is why they get so down in the dumps with dating when things don't work out. When you rightfully have no expectation that you'll ever see a woman again until you fvck her, since that's the only true indication of her interest level, it won't bother you if things go south with any particular interaction since you'll have others lined up soon after.

I've done far more than that on first dates and have done that several times with no 2nd date. Why? Who knows. Not worth worrying about. That's why having a pipeline is essential because it doesn't matter then.

And as far as talking about her texts and how they show interest, huh?

Nowhere did I see anything about her talking about a "next time" or saying how she looks forward to seeing you again or asking when you are free to meet up again. THAT is high interest. Not her sending some neutral text.

 

[sosuave213]

That's great. The problem is you assume this means there is a 95-100% chance of a 2nd date happening when the truth is it's a 0-100% chance. The expectations men have after dates like this is why they get so down in the dumps with dating when things don't work out. When you rightfully have no expectation that you'll ever see a woman again until you fvck her, since that's the only true indication of her interest level, it won't bother you if things go south with any particular interaction since you'll have others lined up soon after.

I've done far more than that on first dates and have done that several times with no 2nd date. Why? Who knows. Not worth worrying about. That's why having a pipeline is essential because it doesn't matter then.

And as far as talking about her texts and how they show interest, huh?

Nowhere did I see anything about her talking about a "next time" or saying how she looks forward to seeing you again or asking when you are free to meet up again. THAT is high interest. Not her sending some neutral text.

That last paragraph got the point across. I guess I'll date other chicks in the meantime.

 

[FlexpertHamilton]

I do not call or text after 1st dates anymore, period.

I recently had a date with an attractive latina au pair; we had a seemingly great time and she had high IL but the goodbye was cold. So I figure, she's probably not that interested after all which was proven when she never even texted me. But how could you even know that if you don't even give her a chance to chase you? Besides, the least she can do is thank me, which i'll respond to at least trying to setup the 2nd date whenever seems appropriate.

If she can't even be bothered to even send a thank you text, next her. The audacity of any woman who would do this is baffling; you started talking to her, read the room, asked her out, made the plans/logistics, tried to show her a good time, likely paid for the date, while all she did was show up (and probably not even on time), and then you're still expected to continue to initiate and carry the process beyond the 1st date? That's ridiculous to me.

If we're assuming the girl did in fact text you after the date and whatnot, then just go with your gut and set it up whenever feels right, it doesn't fvcking matter she's not going to lose interest if you ask her out the next day, and if that does disqualify you, then her IL probably wasn't very high to begin with.

All this said, my best 1st dates tend to have 2nd dates in the works before the first one even ends.

 

[sosuave213]

@BackInTheGame78 https://www.loveshack.org/forums/topic/333503-dating-for-2-3-months-together-or-apart-for-holidays/ girls don't want anything to do with a guy they just met for the holidays.

 

[BackInTheGame78]

@BackInTheGame78 https://www.loveshack.org/forums/topic/333503-dating-for-2-3-months-together-or-apart-for-holidays/ girls don't want anything to do with a guy they just met for the holidays.

Pfft...nice sample size of one. Anything to continue your obsessive narrative tho I guess.

Go date other women. For your own sake.

 

[sosuave213]

Pfft...nice sample size of one. Anything to continue your obsessive narrative tho I guess.

Go date other women. For your own sake.

But I don't want to, this is the one.

 

[Stanley]

"When do you call for a second date?"

When you want to. Do what you want to do and see if she's down to come along for the ride. Don't overthink s**t

But I don't want to, this is the one.

Careful here...

 

[BackInTheGame78]

But I don't want to, this is the one.

Sure she is. The fact you even think this shows you are going to get spit up and chewed out in the dating world and nothing anyone can say here will help you.

After one date this is an absolutely nonsensical comment that shows an internal neediness and desperation that will constantly push women away from you as if you have leprosy even if they initially are interested.

Good luck, I'm not taking the bait anymore and I'm not a fan of watching someone willingly crash and burn in a giant fireball which is pretty much assured for you.