You have to move fast with women

[Bingo-Player]

Translation: Awww you're a nice guy, but I'm going to reject you because you were not the man with balls I thought you were, and you didn't kiss me cause you were afraid of losing me, and that was the thing that actually lost me, the lack of courage, and it became a self fulfilling prophecy" or something like that.

Yea agreed

In my experiences a female doesn't mind the pace you go at as long as you are going in the right direction and making her pu$$y tingle

I mean a girl I was fvcking earlier in the summer waited a solid month for me ( mainly due to logistics ) but because I kept things flirty and sexual with pics / FaceTimes / messages she was fully aware that I wasn't heading into the freindzone and was happy to wait eventually I went down to see her and we smashed

I think its important to remember most women don't really know what they want from a man and sometimes if they are even attracted too him

its a ball ache but as men we literally have to tell them what they want , and there's all kinds of nuances and techniques to do this but at the core its how she perceives your masculinity

If she perceives you as a strong no bullsh1t type of guy she will submit to you , but if she senses in any kind of doubt in this perception she will test you , disrespect you and eventually freindzone you ( which is the ultimate disrespect )

Which is what has happened here

 

[Bigpapa]

Yea agreed

In my experiences a female doesn't mind the pace you go at as long as you are going in the right direction and making her pu$$y tingle

I mean a girl I was fvcking earlier in the summer waited a solid month for me ( mainly due to logistics ) but because I kept things flirty and sexual with pics / FaceTimes / messages she was fully aware that I wasn't heading into the freindzone and was happy to wait eventually I went down to see her and we smashed

I think its important to remember most women don't really know what they want from a man and sometimes if they are even attracted too him

its a ball ache but as men we literally have to tell them what they want , and there's all kinds of nuances and techniques to do this but at the core its how she perceives your masculinity

If she perceives you as a strong no bullsh1t type of guy she will submit to you , but if she senses in any kind of doubt in this perception she will test you , disrespect you and eventually freindzone you ( which is the ultimate disrespect )

Which is what has happened here

I think that your story is a bit different than mine

Mainly because between the first and the 2nd date you did not met. Only kept in touch. Then when things were ok logistically you pulled the trigger

Was the same thing for me, had like almost 2 weeks between the first and 2nd date and the discussions and vibe was great till the 2nd date happened and I failed to escalate

I disagree that women do not know if they are attracted or not. They do know from the get go if they are attracted or not, otherwise guys would not be frustrated that women do not want to go on first dates with them. On the contrary, they would complain about being friendzoned

Also friendzone is something that rarely happens. A myth just like the women hitting the wall or chads that are giga slayers ( if you ask me )

 

[pipeman84]

Let me know how it goes, but from my end it is not about having sex in the first 2-3 dates but about moving fast and showing clear sexual interest, and that if you do not show it she will assume that you are not interested in the same thing as she is and thus auto rejects

From my experience there is no difference between how a virgin, low notch girl or a hoe perceives things if you do not show clear sexual intent as soon as possible. You might prolong it, but if by the end of the 2nd date you did not even kiss her she will auto reject and thinking that you are a despicable person for not seeing what a beautiful girl she is

The definition of showing clear sexual interest will vary greatly between a normal girl and a hoe. The fact you're spending time with her, flirting, touching is more than enough hint you're interested in her, for a normal girl.

She can't auto reject if she likes you. If you didn't kiss her by the end of 2nd date she'll be even more aroused, and intrigued. That's what Doc Love called being a challenge, and it is a major male attraction trait, beside confidence and self control.
That provided you're with a clinically sane woman and you're giving the vibe of evaluating her, see if she's good enough to be invited into your life as opposed to giving the vibe of being too shy or unworthy of her.

 

[Bingo-Player]

I think that your story is a bit different than mine

Mainly because between the first and the 2nd date you did not met. Only kept in touch. Then when things were ok logistically you pulled the trigger

Was the same thing for me, had like almost 2 weeks between the first and 2nd date and the discussions and vibe was great till the 2nd date happened and I failed to escalate

I disagree that women do not know if they are attracted or not. They do know from the get go if they are attracted or not, otherwise guys would not be frustrated that women do not want to go on first dates with them. On the contrary, they would complain about being friendzoned

Also friendzone is something that rarely happens. A myth just like the women hitting the wall or chads that are giga slayers ( if you ask me )

Guys are constantly complaining about the freindzone its one of the most talked about topics within "game" on platforms like YouTube

Female gaze and male gaze are two completely opposing dynamics

A man can look at a woman and instantly know if he wants her or not , how she acts is really secondary to most men

Conversely a woman looks at a man and thinks " oh yea he looks ok "

But its what happens after that, is what really matters because women are so emotionally driven - this is their primary driver not physical attraction

She wants to feel your masculinity , your confidence , your sexuality

its why you will see very average looking guys with very attractive females

 

[Bigpapa]

The definition of showing clear sexual interest will vary greatly between a normal girl and a hoe. The fact you're spending time with her, flirting, touching is more than enough hint you're interested in her, for a normal girl.

She can't auto reject if she likes you. If you didn't kiss her by the end of 2nd date she'll be even more aroused, and intrigued. That's what Doc Love called being a challenge, and it is a major male attraction trait, beside confidence and self control.
That provided you're with a clinically sane woman and you're giving the vibe of evaluating her, see if she's good enough to be invited into your life as opposed to giving the vibe of being too shy or unworthy of her.

Dunno man, this is not my experience or the experience of others

Are you sure you are not idealistically instead of being realistically?

 

[Bigpapa]

Guys are constantly complaining about the freindzone its one of the most talked about topics within "game" on platforms like YouTube

Female gaze and male gaze are two completely opposing dynamics

A man can look at a woman and instantly know if he wants her or not , how she acts is really secondary to most men

From what I have seen in most cases the “friendzone” happened because the guy did not escalate when they had the opportunity , not because the woman actually thought that he will make a good friend . Most women do not believe that guys and girls can be platonic friends. They are realistic ( guys are way more idealistic in general )

When the guy does not escalate when he has the opportunity women will become bitter and think that you rejected them so they reject you before you reject them as a way to save face

I agree with the rest

 

[Bigpapa]

I have to agree with piperman here. You can't go too slow if you do the right things but you can go too fast doing the right things.

I am not saying that in theory he does not have a solid point, was just saying if this applied to reality actually gives the results we think they will

Not really my experience though

Which leads to 2 possible options:

A) I did not do things as I should have ( very unlikely though )
B) it is a theoretical framework that can not be applied to reality and thus is more a philosophical topic than something empirical

What is your experience?

You ever managed to go on the 3rd date without at least kissing the girl prior? And if yes, it happens often or it is something that happens rarely?

 

[pipeman84]

Dunno man, this is not my experience or the experience of others

Are you sure you are not idealistically instead of being realistically?

You can't call Doc Love, the first man in 6k years to understand women, an idealist.

 

[Bingo-Player]

I rarely see very average looking guys with very attractives females, it happens yes, sometimes. When I do, I also see that the guy drives a Mercedes Jeep or any other expensive car.

Go to any downtown metro area or shopping centre and sit and watch for a few hours you will change your mind

Also when on holiday hotel poolsides are a great window into this

Attractive women with what we would perceive as an average guy , but under the surface there is something about him she is connected too

 

[Bigpapa]

You can't call Doc Love, the first man in 6k years to understand women, an idealist.
View attachment 11036 View attachment 11036

Dunno if you are serious or ironic

 

[pipeman84]

Dunno if you are serious or ironic

Very serious. I can be dismissed as just some guy on a forum but Doc Love had decades of experience in the seduction community and interacted with lots of guys via his columns on various sites and radio shows.

 

[Bigpapa]

You will never see a girl like this with a very average guy, unless money is involved.

Or status

Status > money

You can be broke as f8ck but if for some reason you have status you will over perform in the vast majority of cases someone that has money

Think about extreme sports athletes or musicians in some sh1tty bands, or footballers in the lower divisions. Or athletes playing sports that are not that well paid unless you are at the very top ( volleyball, handball, basketball in Europe, etc )

Most footballers who are not pros yet and just play at good football academies most of the time have hot girlfriends, even though they have little to no money and the prospect of going pro in the best scenario is a couple of years away

 

[Ricky]

It really depends on the girl and the culture. For example in Quebec taking your time is autosabotage, but in Russia or with EE girls, going to fast is something to avoid. There is no defined "protocol" to follow, you gotta feel the girl's vibe and be able to read the signs accurately which is not easy. I've read your thread quickly but I think you didn't do anything "wrong", sometimes it just doesn't work, don't try to understand, girls are fvcked up.

The only thing I would say, don't mix drugs and dating (I have nothing against weed as I smoked for 15 years) but I think it's a better idea not to mix the two, weed + dating = weird situations.

I totally agree about this. Published timelines need to be created for this

 

[Bigpapa]

Status yes, status and/or money.

The thing with status can mean literally anything

If you work in a cool bar for example you will have status

If you have a ****ty blog that has some traction, you will get status

But status is always niche, and unless you get some universal status it will be very difficult to transposed the status in your niche to another one

Universal status is at being at star level, which is very difficult to reach for the very vast majority of people no matter how talented and hard working they are

 

[Ricky]

I do not usually smoke weed, I do not really like it. But since the girl mentioned that she does this from time to time I thought that it is a great excuse for her to come to your place or you to go hers

Did this a couple of times in the past and it worked just fine. It took 5-10 minutes till I started escalating and never actually smoked weed with them

Oh ok that makes more sense then. Some women are really into it and others not at all. I never used it for years and not its a very rare occasional thing

 

[CAPSLOCK BANDIT]

Some people still demonize marijuana, some others have gone as far as saying it could be used as a date rape drug and at minimum they say it can "Blur the lines" as the headline of the article I'll post states.

Overall it's just ridiculous that this notion even exists but... It does!

I'll tell you, one time I met this chick for the first time, we went back to my place and just like we sexted about, I tied her up and had her squealing with joy, a day later she texted me "Hey, I feel like some of the things that happened yesterday were not OK" and I just about crapped myself, thinking how precarious of a situation this actually was, tying up a chick on first meet was liability wise a terrible idea.

She went on to describe how some guy once tied her up and then smacked her breasts for an hour really hard until they were red and bleeding, I wanted to outright blame her but I knew I was already in a precarious situation so I just consoled her and that was the last time we ever hooked up.

Be careful on first meet up, might seem benign but you never know.

spectatornews.com
https://www.spectatornews.com › th...
The blurry line between marijuana and sexual assault - The Spectator

 

[SW15]

Always be escalating and closing.

Iron Rule of Tomassi #3

Any woman who makes you wait for sex, or by her actions implies she is making you wait for sex; the sex is NEVER worth the wait.

She must also be receptive to the escalation.

 

[Ricky]

I think the title of this thread is totally wrong and can mislead guys who don't know any better.
If you're talking about situations like drunken ONS or hookups with other tourists in a party destination, then yeah, it makes sense to move fast.
Other than that, as Doc Love used to say, you can't move too slow with a clinically sane woman, only too fast.
The girl could have lost interest in you for a myriad different reasons, the fact you didn't kiss her on first date or grabbed her by the pvssy within 2 hours of spending time together on the second date are not valid reasons.

I agree with Doc love in principle but nowadays peoples sense of time is totally different due to the apps and the constant battle for our shortening attention spans.

i often like to tell people how i like the era from say 2000-2006 where you would actually send an email to a woman and not worry if she didnt respond for a couple days. It was normal. I would of course use instanf messenger with women then but you knew you had their captive attention as they were at the computer.

Now you never know where a woman is when you text her, you have no idea who she is with or what she is doing and even worse… you are competing for her attention with a bunch of online simps and even worse a bunch of mindless entertainment on TikTok and other apps.

so i think the biggest problem is keeping womens attention and holding it. We need to think like persuasion experts and social media scientists.

 

[pipeman84]

I agree with Doc love in principle but nowadays peoples sense of time is totally different due to the apps and the constant battle for our shortening attention spans.

i often like to tell people how i like the era from say 2000-2006 where you would actually send an email to a woman and not worry if she didnt respond for a couple days. It was normal. I would of course use instanf messenger with women then but you knew you had their captive attention as they were at the computer.

Now you never know where a woman is when you text her, you have no idea who she is with or what she is doing and even worse… you are competing for her attention with a bunch of online simps and even worse a bunch of mindless entertainment on TikTok and other apps.

so i think the biggest problem is keeping womens attention and holding it. We need to think like persuasion experts and social media scientists.

Don't forget, Doc Love used to repeat his system works for clinically sane women with no emotional baggage. How many women on dating apps would qualify under that criteria?
Some things from his works are dated (home phone number ) but the main framework which is based on psychology, masculine - feminine dynamics remains intact.

 

[Bigpapa]

Don't forget, Doc Love used to repeat his system works for clinically sane women with no emotional baggage. How many women on dating apps would qualify under that criteria?
Some things from his works are dated (home phone number ) but the main framework which is based on psychology, masculine - feminine dynamics remains intact.

How many people are really sane to begin with?

Society quite f8cked in the head if you ask me. This does not mean though that women are bigger hoes now than they used to be in the past either

Expecting that people to be sane I think is again a fallacy, a Don Quixote type of thinking