Let's Be Real Here Pt.5 - These Red Pill Principles are OUTDATED

[zekko]

Are they looksmaxxed at 4/10 or can they improve?

I would guess it depends on why they are a four? If they're fat, sloppy, and out of shape, certainly they can improve. If they're already in shape but just ugly, their ceiling is probably lower

 

[Hamurabimbi]

Are they looksmaxxed at 4/10 or can they improve?

they can improve.

 

[Hamurabimbi]

I would guess it depends on why they are a four? If they're fat, sloppy, and out of shape, certainly they can improve. If they're already in shape but just ugly, their ceiling is probably lower

the former.

 

[corrector]

They look better than I do. I'm like 3/10. However, I'm 41.1% body-fat and obviously there is room for improvement, as I can see it there. My arms are also flabby like heck and am bald. I know my looks suck and that's why I'm not on any online dating sites or trying to approach or flirt with any woman. I know they will just be courteous or maybe even nice with me but nobody is going to really like this.

The things is, I'm at least committed or trying to lose the body-fat but am struggling. Currently I'm on this noom thing but it has not worked out so far on the first week.

 

[Solomon]

1. "The Wall" starts at 25-27 - By "Wall" it I am referring to a lack of attraction and desirability from the opposite sex. From what I have seen, women can have enough suitors well into their 40s (thanks to SM and OLD). So the notion that a 25-27 woman (up to 50) isn't desired, and would settle for a loser, is no longer valid.

Totally agree, it's Redpill Cope that's perpetuated by these Tik Tok compilation videos and guys with limited experience with women in the real world or Incels think that this will be their revenge. Newsflash if you're a bitter incel at 40 it doesn't mean that 40-year-old women will give you play all of a sudden if anything women at 40 are pickier than at 20. Most 20 year old women don't give a shyt about if you're rich or not hence they tend to date in their age group do you think Charlie going to a 4 year college is rich? hell no. At 40 a woman is looking for a man to be established in his career, have the game, be clean-cut, great in bed, and oh you have to be marriage material etc.

It's incel cope

2. A man in his 20s can't handle a woman in her 20s. He should chase his purpose, and can start looking for a 20-something woman when he is 35 - This is a very, very harmful advice. Although most men are broke at that age, the requirements towards them are minimal (usually to just be "on the right track"). I would also argue that most men are too introverted and passive, and could have acquired some experience starting from their late teens. Also, the more minor mistakes you make at a younger age, the wiser you are going to be at a younger age. Most men here seem to be late bloomers - having some or minimal experience with women in their late 20s or even early 30s, thus just starting at that age.

Why not do both? I was clueless about female nature until 24 years old. Once I came on this site I use to hit the field every weekend (also wrote field reports)while working 60 hours a week sometimes 24 hours straight. I don't recommend it for anyone but I did it because I wanted to become better. Guys who struggle with women in their 20s tend to be awkward, not social and lack confidence. You have to go out there and work on yourself to become the best version of you

3. The older you are, the more attractive you are to women - Women are not attracted to the age difference in itself, they are attracted to the skills and lifestyle that you have acquired. But as said in the previous point, that can be done earlier, at least partially. Also, the older you are, the more things you would need to have to have going for you (you are now judged by your accomplishments and assets, unlike when in your 20s).

Here's a simple example for this - Rich Cooper, one of the RP guys that I have watched 2-3 years ago and respect, makes 1-2k USD per hour of consultations. He also rode a Mclaren 720s (at least 3-4 years ago) and has some you tube clout. However, he is in an LTR with a single mother his age (47+?). So he is a high value man compared to most, yet he is not able to have and LTR with a 20-something woman, even though he has enough earnings, assets and clout.

You have a dating coach who lied to his audience for years about his girlfriend being younger, The fraud was selling courses come to find out his girlfriend is an older ran through former stripper (and older than him).

I agree with you women are attracted to skills and lifestyle acquired. You have delusional guys here who make 40K a year at age 40 and think they are gonna get a hot 20-year-old lmfaooo. Unless you are ripped to shreds or rich good luck with that

4. Concrete definition of a 'High Value Man" - nobody has given a concrete definition. Does a certain amount of net worth make you high value? Or is it you lifestyle? We have clearly seen the richest men in the world to be in scarcity with women, and choosing sub optimal women.

The below is genuine burning desire.

This is what a man should aim for. Bezos has 600x the net worth of Di Caprio, and being a world famous entrepreneur, who created a trillion dollar company, should have been the more desirable according to Red Pill.

At the time of this recording, Bezos was the richest man on earth.

- YouTube

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5. Women strive to be in LTRs - True. But only with either her top or nearly best suitors. I believe that the infamous "two thirds of young men are single" shows this. It has been my experience that more and more women chose to be single for a while, even though they can pick between many beta suitors.

6. "GAME" creates physical attraction - If you are at a given moment a woman's best option, no game is needed (unless you are socially awkward. The reverse however is not true. And by "GAME" am referring to the verbal and text methods a man uses to get faster into a woman's pants or heart. Not status, money or looks.

4. Kevin Samuels gave a concrete definition hence he became popular, Do I agree with it? no but he did give one
A lot of Redpill men think that money will fix their problems with getting women. Newsflash money will attract hotter women yes but if you're a fat slob or don't have any game you're gonna attract users and Golddiggers it's best as a man to work on your whole being spiritually, mentally, physically and financially. If you're a loser, then become rich and don't change your mindset then you're just a loser with money i.e. a trick

5. Agreed and lot of men don't qualify in 2023 hence the frustration. You also have a lot of men who are in their late 20s and 30s who are bums living at their parent's house, no jobs, overweight yet want a "10" lmfaoo delusional why would a 10 get with a bum when she has the best options in the world?

6. Looks get you in the door and even get you having knowledge of self and confidence keeps the woman

 

[NoFear]

All this arguments are mass media arguments to promote soyboyism and antimasculinity.
I wont agree with a lot of qwhat rich cooper says but he is right in some stuff specially in the stuff cited here.

 

[Hamurabimbi]

They look better than I do. I'm like 3/10. However, I'm 41.1% body-fat and obviously there is room for improvement, as I can see it there. My arms are also flabby like heck and am bald. I know my looks suck and that's why I'm not on any online dating sites or trying to approach or flirt with any woman. I know they will just be courteous or maybe even nice with me but nobody is going to really like this.

The things is, I'm at least committed or trying to lose the body-fat but am struggling. Currently I'm on this noom thing but it has not worked out so far on the first week.

T least you’re trying. You’re here. Only my Hapa friend is trying’. And he refuses to looksmax. The others have completely given up. Of course. My 4/10 is subjective. They’re my friends. So who really knows. I don’t even know what I am. (adequate I suppose).

 

[Smooth_texter]

You are (again) cherry picking.

Redpill is about REALITY vs dogmatism. Because every bluepilled man will come to a point where he'll have to admit that the redpill guy was right. The redpill guy can ALWAYS say"told ya so".

Can be 1 month, can be 10 years. RPiller will be right eventually, bluepilled man will cry that he shoulda woulda coulda listen when he was getting schooled.

1.yes..HER wall. She'll notice she went from hb9 to hb8..huge difference. Not for the AFC chasing her..but to Chad it is!!

2.also True. This is @Gamisch his catchphrase: women years are like dog years. Her window to get children marriage and all that good stuff with a TOP CANDIDATE is very small. Perhaps untill 40 . For a man that is easily 55/60.

3 also true. I notice it myself. Mind you,i keep hearing i look like end 20 begin 30 whole i amn hitting 40 almost. I get uncut and raw ioi EVERYWHERE I GO, from ages 15 to 65. Now, with all this experience..I am unstoppable. When i was 20 i bet i was prettier, but also HIGHLY insecure. 100s of women later (dating and sexing) , iam way more confident about the outcome while simultaneously not caring about said outcome. This is my ABSOLUTE prime. Oh, and I ve slept with at least four 19 y.olds after being 32 times 100s of sessions so..

4.well , you could argue that any man with a networth of more than a million = hvm. Or 5 million if you want. At some point its doesn't matter anymore, because leo is the 0,1 % of top men , and Bezos is the 0,01 %of top men. No woman will tell the difference. They van both Eat at the same restaurants drive the same cars ect. Leo tho, is the most sought after bro for almost 30 plus years. Who the heck is Bezos? a average dude with money. Fecking or sucking Leo =status for life ,more than doing that to Jeff.


5. Is you confessing to the rp? A typo?


6.you are NEVER her best nor first option..NEVER. but a woman is also realistic and she might live for the moment. If you play your cards right (GAME) you can definitely create attraction and turn her on.

Bottomline .the redpill is right and you proved it haha. Sleep well my brothers.

No, my point is that those specific principles in the red pill did not held in my experiences. The other things are valid.

 

[Gamisch]

No, my point is that those specific principles in the red pill did not held in my experiences. The other things are valid.

You and I can always have great discussions and disagreements without too much animosity. Thanks for that

 

[Smooth_texter]

"The Wall" is a lot more forgiving and a lot less punishing then a lot of red pillers/Manosphere men would like for it to be.

A childless, 35 year old woman who isn't overweight will still generate a lot of interest. The options won't be as good as when she was 25, but there are still enough options for her out there, especially if she lives in a more populated metro area (think 1 million+). Most 35 year old women have more options than most 35 year old men.

The equation changes when a woman has a child. Single moms in their 30s/40s will still be able to get a decent amount of sex, but they will struggle to get commitment. Even a lot of thirsty, beta, average frustrated chumps won't commit to a single mom. Yes, there are thirsty, average frustrated chumps who will commit, but many of them already have children themselves.



When a man is in his 20s, he is well positioned to date women who are in their 20s. This makes sense. It's more difficult for a 35 year old man to get a 23 year old girlfriend than it is for a 25 year old man to get a 23 year old girlfriend. A man needs a social life while he is in his 20s. It makes sense for men to date age appropriate women while in their 20s. It's even possible that some of these relationships can have longevity and maybe even higher quality longevity. However, most relationships have a shelf life of goodness of around 5 years, no matter how long they last.



If you're an older man, you will likely need to make a good amount of money and have a solid net worth to date 10+ years younger, something that starts for men in their early 30s.

I know Rich Cooper had dated a single mom in the past but wasn't sure if he is still dating one.



The critique that "nobody has given a concrete definition of a high value man" is something that black piller Wheat Waffles said when critiquing the red pill.

To me, Game is some combination of looks, money, status, and personality. Guys like Bezos and Bill Gates based their game entirely around money and status. Guys who use Seeking are primarily basing their game on money and possibly status.



Agree



I think looks matter most in seduction, primarily if you are an under 35 guy. Women do consider money and status more for 35+ men. Personality (which is verbal and text methods) usually matter less than looks and money.

I agree with all of these additional details, except your definition of the "GAME" part.

I think that "GAME" is only the verbal, text and body tricks to get faster into a woman's pants or heart. Looks are mostly defined by genetics, and money reflect your willigness to compete and improve in the business world. A man can be a successful entrepreneur or Manager, and still be MGTOW.

 

[Smooth_texter]

Just to clarify. I am responding to the Red Pill bold text. Not OP’s commentary. So. For example. #5 I’ve found most women want an LTR and are pretty up front and relentless about it.

So we basically agree on everything. If you read the explanation of #5, you would see that indeed women strive to be in LTRs, but only with their top suitors. So any man that was pressured to enter an STR/LTR means that was a woman's top pick and she had a "Fear of missing out".

 

[Smooth_texter]

Nothing is ever that linear or black and white. People who think in those simple terms just haven't experienced enough in life to be able to see how diverse/dynamic things are when it comes to dating, social dynamics, etc.

I feel for alot of people.. I think people are just way more sheltered than they think they are. I think the problem is just the system of being trapped into career, jobs, education, and thes robotic lives that haven't allowed some people to really go out , explore, experience, learn, grow, socialize enough to really have this wide compass.

Yes, I have actually made similar comments in other threads.

Most men's biggest mistake is that usually they overdevelop a certain a aspect their lives (usually career, as advised by many RP influencers), and they underdeveloped others (or did not develop them at all).

This has been one of my major mistakes as well.

 

[SW15]

Most men's biggest mistake is that usually they overdevelop a certain a aspect their lives (usually career, as advised by many RP influencers), and they underdeveloped others (or do not develop them at all).

Not a mistake if you have big muscles! 6'0"+ and big muscles is the combination to attract women.

 

[Smooth_texter]

I agree, "The Wall" is a just a cope used by butt hurt men that need an escapism from their pitfalls.



50/50, I think spinning plates/chasing tail is a waste of time and should be done at an earlier point in life. I think all men can benefit from a healthy LTR that helps them grow and feeds their sexual desires at the same time.



This I 100% agree with and I love your example. This is another cope used by bitter man as an escapism for their pitfalls.



For the red pill to ever be taken seriously again and to adapt to a modern audience, it needs to retire this High Value Man/Alpha & Beta Male nonsense. These terms are stupid and greatly embarrassed the Godfather of the Redpill when he couldn't answer the question himself.



Agreed, there has to be some form of physical attraction initially.



I disagree with you on this point. I think women strive to be in LTRs with their ideal men and are pickier up front. Mostly novice men or men in scarcity will ignore qualities of women and dive in to LTRs blindly.

I have read your comments and actually think that there is no disagreement.

With regards to 2. A man in his 20s can't handle a woman in her 20s - I have made the same argument, that "there is a time and place for everything". That a man should start dealing with women as early as he can, in order to already be a man at 25, and be able to handle a woman in her 20s.

Regarding 5. Women strive to be in LTRs - I think that you have read only the bolded text. Women actually strive and pressure to be in LTRs with their best pick.

 

[Smooth_texter]

The wall starts after 23. There are exceptions.

A man in his 30s usually has better experience to handle a girl in her 20s than a guy in his 20s. Again, there can be exceptions.

The older you are, the more attractive you are to women. This is true, at least with certain type of women. If this wasnt true, the term "daddy issues" would have never existed in the first place.

Chad Thunderc0ck is a High Value Man. Basically, someone who has similar Looks/Money/Status as Chris Hemsworth / Thor

Women want to be in LTRs. Most of them do, at least before they get brainwashed, jaded, pump & ghosted, etc.

Game can create attraction, sometimes. Too many variables at play.

For the most part, I believe these principles are still valid.

Dr, I think it's a bit more nuanced that that.

Wall - yes, if you have grown together with a particular woman, and she has bad genetics, it's posssible to see a decrease in her beauty even at 23. My point is not about that, it's about how desirable would that woman be.

Man in his 30s - as I have stated in the OP, a man in his 20s is better positioned to attract a 20 something woman (attending same places, common generational interests, both at peak looks phase). The older you are, the more things you have to have going for you, in order for her to go with you and ignore her age group.

Chad - I disagree on that. "Chad" is her best looking pick. She is purely physically attracted to him. A man that is MGTOW, or a blue pill beta can have money and status (example - Gates or Bezos in their respective relationships)

Women want to be in LTRs - yes, most strive, but with their best pick. And yes, after racking too much experience, they become jaded.

Game - I think that it can increase attraction, but it cannot create it. Picture this extreme example - someone like Danny De Vito hitting on Angelina Jolie at her peak (2000-2004). He can use cold reads, push/pull and so on - she would not care. She chose Brad Pitt instead.

 

[Smooth_texter]

Maybe he likes her? Maybe he relates to her better since she is his own age. Guys here tend to judge other guys' women by what they themselves want, instead of what the other guy wants.

That said, Cooper doesn't strike me as a master seducer type, honestly. He seems like a guy who will have a relationship on his terms, and not tolerate any disrespect, so he's red pill in that sense. But he doesn't strike me as a guy who's particularly concerned about trolling bars on Friday night looking for some 21 year old to have a casual hookup with.

I do not know his personal motivation. I get your point.

This was what he has mentioned on his podcasts 2-3 years ago. The only reason why I bring it up is because he is saying that men should date women in their 20s, but he is not doing it.

 

[SpartanWarrior77]

I'll counter with a different example, Zan Perrion (look him up, read his book if you haven't already ) who got in a relationship with a 22yrs old when he was 48 ... that was back in 2012, they're still together and married.

The main issue with RP gurus like Cooper or Corey Wayne is that they just talk, they don't walk the walk. My impression of them is that they are just as insecure and butt hurt as a 20s something guy ... so why would a 20s something girl stay with an 'old' guy once the facade is removed? She gets none of the benefits of being in a relationship with a mature guy so why would she stay in it?

Ive met Cooper. Hes afraid of talking to chicks at least when i was with him that one time. He was bragging about some short haired girl hes seeing. She was like a 5. Hes more of a self improvement guy that sort of knows how to avoid the "trainwreck" more than anything. Kimda more defense. Doesnt know how to do well on offense.

 

[SpartanWarrior77]

I kind of agree with #2 or at least wanna comment on it from a diff angle. In my experience being single for a long time in my 20s has been very very difficult. It was good in the beginning to get experience but after a while, it got old. Im still single. I did have a GF for a few years. The problem is that many of us struggle with isolation so to wait until 35 can be very difficult. The loneliness of being at the peak of ur sexual prime as a man and going to bed alone almost every night is pretty disheartening.

 

[Smooth_texter]

Obsessing over wealth as defining your own value is blue pill, in my opinion. Guys live their entire lives and never get over that idea. It's the biggest self defeating concept out there. You c0ckblock yourself at a young age, then later end up with a shallow b1tch who only wants you for your money...what a life!

I meant qualities, skills, assets and so on. Basically judged on everything when you are older. If you are in your 20s, being on the right path alone is enough.

I agree that judging a guy by his net worth or assets alone is beta and setting a provider type of relationship. But if you look at almost all definitions of a "High Value Man" from the popular podcasts, the one thing that always comes up is the earnings/net worth.

 

[Smooth_texter]

Redpill to me is a level of experience and realization that women are what they are. You can accept or stay mad and quit.

I don't get too caught up in the details being hashed out above because everyone will have a different perspective that is true to what they have experienced in life. Just like what RazorRambo said. Get out more and you might broaden your own perspective.

I agree on the red pill mindset as a whole.

However, there are some destructive ideas like "men in their 20s cannot deal with a woman in her 20s", which might lead to men in that age group purposely missing out on experiences with similarly aged women.