Are women even still open to meeting men the old-fashioned way anymore?

[SW15]

The Old-Fashioned Way for some of our parents, but mostly our grandparents and beyond was not going to the mega grocery store and having the balls to hit on the girl at the produce section.....The girl with the air pods at Kroger or jogging at the park probably has 3 vacations planned out in the span of 2 months, her weekend schedule is full by Monday morning, two dogs, and a boyfriend. This is nowhere close to being old fashioned compared to our grandparents.

I like this as I could relate to this. Over the years, I have been the guy looking at approach at places like Kroger or Whole Foods.

Airpods/earbuds/headphones are more common outdoors or at the gym than at Kroger.

Your comment about 2 dogs is a big change as compared to past generations. In past generations, people only got dogs after they got married or a bought a house. Since the 2000s, when Millennials entered their 20s, it has been far more common for people (mostly women) to get their dogs prior to having a steady partner. Also, a larger percentage of the population has dogs too. Millennials have been the most pet obsessed generation in hundreds of years, possibly all time.

It's difficult for an early stage relationship to develop properly when a woman has pre-planned vacations. Dogs often interfere with the development of a relationship too. A lot of time, a woman can't be very spontaneous on dates because of her dogs needing attention. A woman's dog responsibilities are almost on the same level as her being a single parent. This topic is rarely discussed on SoSuave but probably needs to be discussed more frequently.

For Millennials, our parents (Baby Boomers) or our grandparents (GI Generation -- 1910s-early 1920s births) weren't dealing with "dog moms".

In general, grocery store stranger approaching has always been a bit of a niche activity.

Their environment was much more enclosed, tough, and localized, and they knew it. It was social circle game but on Godzilla mode. The girl at the local church was probably going to go home and do chores for the rest of the day, so meeting an exciting new man would've made her day. Props, if you go to the same church as her too.

A lot of social circle type stuff has been displaced primarily by tech-based means of arranging dates.

Church participation has fallen off since Millennials entered adulthood.

High school formed relationships were more common for the Silent Generation (late 1920s - 1945 births) and early Baby Boomers. Those have fallen off. College formed relationships grew from the 1970s - 2000 (mainly from Boomers and Gen X) but longevity of college formed relationships have fallen off since Millennials started entering college in the early 2000s.

Social circles are still valuable today so I'm not entirely discrediting them. The problem is that fewer men have viable social circles as compared to GI, Silent, Boomer, and Gen X'er men.

Even today, social circle introductions are the best option for a normie range guy. Most men are normie range.

Social circle is great for getting a girlfriend. Pay close attention to the words "a girlfriend". That means one girlfriend. If you're looking for an extended relationship (2-5 years or more), your best bet for getting that with the least amount of grief and frustration is social circle.

 

[BergischerLöwe]

I think reliance on dating apps is for simps. Most dating apps have 2/3 male and 1/3 female members (or 3/4 male and 1/4 female), so the male competition is fierce and useless at the same time, since many of the dating app women just want validation, not sex.

Idk bout all that, I've never been a simp in my entire life and have neither supplicated nor sacrificed my self respect in some misguided bid to attract women. However it's an unfortunate fact that I've always had to rely on dating apps, and to a large extent it's been forced upon me. I never learned how to meet and attract women irl since I never dated in high school when you're supposed to learn that stuff, and due to my introverted nature cold approach wouldn't really work for me. I never really go out to bars unless my band has a gig anyway. At the end of the day, apps are the only way I can be visible to women, even if they have glaring shortcomings and are mostly a racket designed to exploit single men by making them pay to actually make the app usable. I have no way to end my dependence on dating apps and any real life alternatives don't apply to me. I can't do cold approach, I can't meet women thru hobbies, I can't meet women thru social circle either. So apps are all that's left. For some of us, using apps are our only option and we don't really have a choice

 

[Dash Riprock]

Was talking to my friend about online dating and the swipe apps (Bumble, Hinge, Tinder, etc.) and how they are frustrating. He lives in a major city, gets a decent amount of dates and is even frustrated with it.

I said "I would still rather meet a woman in person the old-fashioned way" and he said "Yeah, who knows if women are even still open to that idea" or something like that.

I wonder if there is some truth to that. Women (and men) are so reliant on technology and their own social media bubble that who knows if they are even open to meeting a man the old-fashioned way anymore (e.g. bars, volunteer event, social events, group hikes, gym, etc.) I notice it when I am out and about. Women are too busy looking at their phones, are in their own little worlds and seem to even avoid making eye contact with random attractive men.

I think the only way to meet women "the old fashioned way" as you put it or "organically" as it's commonly known, is to be a part of a group she's also a part of. The group acts as a buffer. For example, a yoga class, a cooking class, wedding, BBQ, for younger guys a college class, etc. This way you can slowly work your way in. March right up to a girl in a Starbucks today and ask her out and sure, you might be successful (1-2% chance maybe) but the odds are WAY against you. 10-15 years ago this would have worked a lot better. But now, girls shaming guys or just being freaked out by being approached is very common. Plus, you may even end up on Tik Tok as the "Starbucks Creep."

 

[CornbreadFed]

I think that is a defeatist mindset. Dating apps might be the least risky and most convenient way for you to 'meet women',

100

 

[SW15]

March right up to a girl in a Starbucks today and ask her out and sure, you might be successful (1-2% chance maybe) but the odds are WAY against you. 10-15 years ago this would have worked a lot better. But now, girls shaming guys or just being freaked out by being approached is very common. Plus, you may even end up on Tik Tok as the "Starbucks Creep."

Any uncalibrated approach will be considered creepy, whether it's at Starbucks or a real coffee house. I wonder why men can no longer just have conversations with women without being creepy about it. Maybe men shouldn't think with their ****s when interacting with women.

A random approach at Starbucks/any coffee shop without much in the way of IOIs is likely to fail. It was also likely to fail 10-15 years ago. One of the biggest problems with any sort of random daygame is that most women at any point in time are in some sort of relationship and not seeking new penis. These women have no interest in socializing with anyone.

This is one of the reasons why approaching strangers is not very rewarding.

In theory, with approaching at bars, they are in the market for new penis because bars are where someone goes to find new social opportunities. However, the bar channel is difficult because women are expecting approaches and have their defense mechanisms way up. Also, plenty of average frustrated chumps are at bars, approaching women, and turning them off with bad approaches. That ruins the environment for all.

You have to join a group that does something you really like though, don't join a yoga class if you hate yoga.

I think the only way to meet women "the old fashioned way" as you put it or "organically" as it's commonly known, is to be a part of a group she's also a part of. The group acts as a buffer. For example, a yoga class, a cooking class, wedding, BBQ, for younger guys a college class, etc. This way you can slowly work your way in.

With fitness classes, there are many different formats. Yoga isn't the only game in town. Also, almost all fitness class formats are majority females, so ratios are good. However, the biggest challenge in fitness classes is that women are not very sociable before/after class. Part of this is due to most women being in a relationship at any given point in time.

In general, it is an easier approach to interact with some stranger woman after a fitness class than to randomly chat them up in a grocery store, mall, or outdoors.

 

[Dr.Suave]

I'm more like a 'backdoor man'

I had to read that twice. I was thinking you meant something else.

 

[I_have_BDE]

I think that is a defeatist mindset. Dating apps might be the least risky and most convenient way for you to 'meet women', but there are plenty of social activities you could join to meet women. One thing I could suggest is to find communities like through Meetup.com where people contact online to do activities together offline.

If dating apps are all you use, and you have no social life, what do you have to offer a woman?

Except there isn't a plentiful supply of hot women on OLD. 7, to maybe 7.5 is the ceiling on there and not very many of them. I guess if you want to date those 5s and 4s OLD is good then.

 

[BergischerLöwe]

I think that is a defeatist mindset. Dating apps might be the least risky and most convenient way for you to 'meet women', but there are plenty of social activities you could join to meet women. One thing I could suggest is to find communities like through Meetup.com where people contact online to do activities together offline.

If dating apps are all you use, and you have no social life, what do you have to offer a woman?

Isn't meetup just a bunch of single guys with the same idea? The idea of meeting women thru hobbies may be good in theory, but in practice, hobbies and social groups are bound to just be a sausage fest. As I've said before tho even if I came across a dateable woman in one of those groups I still wouldn't be able to act on it. Since I've never been able to land a date with a woman that way, if I made any kind of advance like that it would just be really awkward and wouldn't work. I've stated before that in the past whenever I came across an attractive woman in any small group kinda space, like one of my college courses in my college days for example, I would always suppress my attraction to her since I knew trying to chat her up wouldn't get anywhere. Not dating or talking to women back when I was a teenager when I was supposed to learn this kinda stuff has really come back to bite me now. The fact of the matter is that it's extremely unlikely that I'd meet a woman thru any kind of meetup group and in the off chance that I do I wouldn't be able to do anything. I'm not trying to sound defeatist by saying I have no choice but use apps, in fact it's the objective reality of my situation. There has not been a time in my life where trying irl has ever been a feasible solution. Apps are indeed horrible but they're all I got. If it wasn't for apps I wouldn't have been able to get laid in the first place.

 

[BergischerLöwe]

March right up to a girl in a Starbucks today and ask her out and sure, you might be successful (1-2% chance maybe) but the odds are WAY against you. 10-15 years ago this would have worked a lot better. But now, girls shaming guys or just being freaked out by being approached is very common. Plus, you may even end up on Tik Tok as the "Starbucks Creep."

This is exactly why I've never tried to learn cold approach. It may have worked for some back in 2008 but now it doesn't. It really is true that women nowadays are freaked out when guys approach them in public and there's active psyops to discourage it. People have already tried to cancel me on the internet before for a different reason (got into a verbal altercation in public with a communist that almost turned into a physical fight and the fgt posted my name and face on social media in an attempt to defame me). It was a really distressing experience for me, and there's no way in hell I would ever risk trying to cold approach when that sort of thing could happen to me for that too.

 

[SW15]

Isn't meetup just a bunch of single guys with the same idea?

Meetup is a bunch of thirsty, low value men approaching subpar to mediocre at best women.

It may have worked for some back in 2008 but now it doesn't.

It was a low percentage play in 2008 as well.

It really is true that women nowadays are freaked out when guys approach them in public and there's active psyops to discourage it.

Millennial and Gen Z women are more socially inept than the previous generations. I've seen some social ineptitude from the wives of my male friends, who are around 35 today. The 35 year old wives of my friends aren't even the youngest generation, but they've been somewhat socially inept for a while. One friend has a wife who once claimed she was never approached at a grocery store. It is likely the case that someone started an interaction with her but she was too socially inept to realize what was going on or he wasn't attractive enough so it didn't count as an approach.

Also, many women use earbuds to discourage approaching too.

 

[BergischerLöwe]

Meetup is a bunch of thirsty, low value men approaching subpar to mediocre at best women.



It was a low percentage play in 2008 as well.



Millennial and Gen Z women are more socially inept than the previous generations. I've seen some social ineptitude from the wives of my male friends, who are around 35 today. The 35 year old wives of my friends aren't even the youngest generation, but they've been somewhat socially inept for a while. One friend has a wife who once claimed she was never approached at a grocery store. It is likely the case that someone started an interaction with her but she was too socially inept to realize what was going on or he wasn't attractive enough so it didn't count as an approach.

Also, many women use earbuds to discourage approaching too.

Yeah man doesn't seem like I'd get anywhere with cold approach

 

[SW15]

Yeah man doesn't seem like I'd get anywhere with cold approach

If you're using a variety of in-person tactics to implement a date arranging strategies, you're going to need to spend a lot of time doing it.

If you're starting from scratch, you're going to have to do multiple nights a week out at events or bars to get some prospects for first or second dates for many weeks.

In 2013, Roosh wrote an article about doing one approach per day minimum. That's a more manageable way to build out prospects. For a lot of men, doing one approach per day means that they'd have to visit a coffee shop, bookstore, or mall. Some days, it could be at the grocery store. Some days at the gym. Some days in a co-ed sports league or other hobby group.

Approaching is a long slog. Swiping is worse though it feels more convenient because you can sit at home in comfortable clothes doing it and you might be able to send enough texts to arrange a crappy date. Most dates from swipe apps are garbage dates that aren't even worth showing up for and end up as "1 date, no sex, no second date". It's better to arrange fewer dates through real world stuff and have more of those first dates turn into something meaningful.

 

[BergischerLöwe]

If you're using a variety of in-person tactics to implement a date arranging strategies, you're going to need to spend a lot of time doing it.

If you're starting from scratch, you're going to have to do multiple nights a week out at events or bars to get some prospects for first or second dates for many weeks.

In 2013, Roosh wrote an article about doing one approach per day minimum. That's a more manageable way to build out prospects. For a lot of men, doing one approach per day means that they'd have to visit a coffee shop, bookstore, or mall. Some days, it could be at the grocery store. Some days at the gym. Some days in a co-ed sports league or other hobby group.

Approaching is a long slog. Swiping is worse though it feels more convenient because you can sit at home in comfortable clothes doing it and you might be able to send enough texts to arrange a crappy date. Most dates from swipe apps are garbage dates that aren't even worth showing up for and end up as "1 date, no sex, no second date". It's better to arrange fewer dates through real world stuff and have more of those first dates turn into something meaningful.

It's too long a slog to try and stick to without falling off the wagon. Guess I'll have to just keep swiping and pray for a miracle. I'll never feel comfortable approaching in public like that