Are women even still open to meeting men the old-fashioned way anymore?

[AmsterdamAssassin]

I only used dating apps to find rope bunnies, but for regular dating I just chat up women on the street, in the stores, at events. I know how to get their attention and I'm socially skilled, so I have no problem hooking them 'the old-fashioned way'.

I think reliance on dating apps is for simps. Most dating apps have 2/3 male and 1/3 female members (or 3/4 male and 1/4 female), so the male competition is fierce and useless at the same time, since many of the dating app women just want validation, not sex.

"I'm not here often, contact me on IG" is plastered all over female profiles to show they are not desperate (I have the same sentence in my profile and I have to say, it does work, especially since women can contact me through IG without following me first).

IMO, it's fine to have a dating app profile, but don't overuse it and concentrate on meeting women in real life,

 

[SW15]

Women are still open to meeting men through in-person methods now.

For men who have been out of the seduction game for a while (think a man who has spent the last 10-20 years in the same relationship), here's what's changed.

The bar scene is still a thing, but it has changed. Since Tinder, Bumble, and Hinge all launched between 2012-2014, every unattached person has a "singles bar" within their own pockets on their smartphone. The "singles bar" on their smartphone has more people in it than any 1 or 2 bars they could hit up in a nightlife district in a given evening. This has had an effect on the nightlife scene. This started to change with dating websites in the 2000s, but dating apps are a more convenient method of delivery as compared to dating websites.

Women have actively been discouraging a lot of non-bar approaches through the use of earbuds/headphones. This has most affected parks, paths, and the general gym floor.

Grocery stores and fitness classes are mostly unchanged from 10-20 years ago in terms of approaching.

The mall and bookstores have been affected by Amazon and ecommerce. Malls draw in enough foot traffic still to be part of the approaching mix but aren't easy approaches. Bookstores are a little more difficult of an approach venue. In terms of the business of bookstores, Barnes & Noble seems to be surviving and there are a few other smaller chains that have found a niche too.

Co-ed sports leagues are still a thing, but are competitive since more men than women are naturally interested in most sports. They haven't changed much in the last 10-20 years.

 

[AmsterdamAssassin]

Women are still open to meeting men through in-person methods now.

For men who have been out of the seduction game for a while (think a man who has spent the last 10-20 years in the same relationship), here's what's changed.

Are your observations American-based? I find this much less the case in Europe.

 

[SW15]

Are your observations American-based? I find this much less the case in Europe.

Yes, my observations are based upon my experiences of living in two of the fifteen largest US metropolitan areas in the last 15+ years. I have spent the last 10+ years living in a Top 5 US metro area.

 

[AmsterdamAssassin]

Yes, my observations are based upon my experiences of living in two of the fifteen largest US metropolitan areas in the last 15+ years. I have spent the last 10+ years living in a Top 5 US metro area.

Sounds like the dating game turned to sh!te where you live. Sorry to hear that. Still, there are plenty of ways to game distracted women.
(as I'm sure you're aware of)

 

[CornbreadFed]

The Old-Fashioned Way for some of our parents, but mostly our grandparents and beyond was not going to the mega grocery store and having the balls to hit on the girl at the produce section. Their environment was much more enclosed, tough, and localized, and they knew it. It was social circle game but on Godzilla mode. The girl at the local church was probably going to go home and do chores for the rest of the day, so meeting an exciting new man would've made her day. Props, if you go to the same church as her too. The girl with the air pods at Kroger or jogging at the park probably has 3 vacations planned out in the span of 2 months, her weekend schedule is full by Monday morning, two dogs, and a boyfriend. This is nowhere close to being old fashioned compared to our grandparents.

 

[SW15]

The Old-Fashioned Way for some of our parents, but mostly our grandparents and beyond was not going to the mega grocery store and having the balls to hit on the girl at the produce section.....The girl with the air pods at Kroger or jogging at the park probably has 3 vacations planned out in the span of 2 months, her weekend schedule is full by Monday morning, two dogs, and a boyfriend. This is nowhere close to being old fashioned compared to our grandparents.

I like this as I could relate to this. Over the years, I have been the guy looking at approach at places like Kroger or Whole Foods.

Airpods/earbuds/headphones are more common outdoors or at the gym than at Kroger.

Your comment about 2 dogs is a big change as compared to past generations. In past generations, people only got dogs after they got married or a bought a house. Since the 2000s, when Millennials entered their 20s, it has been far more common for people (mostly women) to get their dogs prior to having a steady partner. Also, a larger percentage of the population has dogs too. Millennials have been the most pet obsessed generation in hundreds of years, possibly all time.

It's difficult for an early stage relationship to develop properly when a woman has pre-planned vacations. Dogs often interfere with the development of a relationship too. A lot of time, a woman can't be very spontaneous on dates because of her dogs needing attention. A woman's dog responsibilities are almost on the same level as her being a single parent. This topic is rarely discussed on SoSuave but probably needs to be discussed more frequently.

For Millennials, our parents (Baby Boomers) or our grandparents (GI Generation -- 1910s-early 1920s births) weren't dealing with "dog moms".

In general, grocery store stranger approaching has always been a bit of a niche activity.

Their environment was much more enclosed, tough, and localized, and they knew it. It was social circle game but on Godzilla mode. The girl at the local church was probably going to go home and do chores for the rest of the day, so meeting an exciting new man would've made her day. Props, if you go to the same church as her too.

A lot of social circle type stuff has been displaced primarily by tech-based means of arranging dates.

Church participation has fallen off since Millennials entered adulthood.

High school formed relationships were more common for the Silent Generation (late 1920s - 1945 births) and early Baby Boomers. Those have fallen off. College formed relationships grew from the 1970s - 2000 (mainly from Boomers and Gen X) but longevity of college formed relationships have fallen off since Millennials started entering college in the early 2000s.

Social circles are still valuable today so I'm not entirely discrediting them. The problem is that fewer men have viable social circles as compared to GI, Silent, Boomer, and Gen X'er men.

Even today, social circle introductions are the best option for a normie range guy. Most men are normie range.

Social circle is great for getting a girlfriend. Pay close attention to the words "a girlfriend". That means one girlfriend. If you're looking for an extended relationship (2-5 years or more), your best bet for getting that with the least amount of grief and frustration is social circle.

 

[BergischerLöwe]

I think reliance on dating apps is for simps. Most dating apps have 2/3 male and 1/3 female members (or 3/4 male and 1/4 female), so the male competition is fierce and useless at the same time, since many of the dating app women just want validation, not sex.

Idk bout all that, I've never been a simp in my entire life and have neither supplicated nor sacrificed my self respect in some misguided bid to attract women. However it's an unfortunate fact that I've always had to rely on dating apps, and to a large extent it's been forced upon me. I never learned how to meet and attract women irl since I never dated in high school when you're supposed to learn that stuff, and due to my introverted nature cold approach wouldn't really work for me. I never really go out to bars unless my band has a gig anyway. At the end of the day, apps are the only way I can be visible to women, even if they have glaring shortcomings and are mostly a racket designed to exploit single men by making them pay to actually make the app usable. I have no way to end my dependence on dating apps and any real life alternatives don't apply to me. I can't do cold approach, I can't meet women thru hobbies, I can't meet women thru social circle either. So apps are all that's left. For some of us, using apps are our only option and we don't really have a choice

 

[Dash Riprock]

Was talking to my friend about online dating and the swipe apps (Bumble, Hinge, Tinder, etc.) and how they are frustrating. He lives in a major city, gets a decent amount of dates and is even frustrated with it.

I said "I would still rather meet a woman in person the old-fashioned way" and he said "Yeah, who knows if women are even still open to that idea" or something like that.

I wonder if there is some truth to that. Women (and men) are so reliant on technology and their own social media bubble that who knows if they are even open to meeting a man the old-fashioned way anymore (e.g. bars, volunteer event, social events, group hikes, gym, etc.) I notice it when I am out and about. Women are too busy looking at their phones, are in their own little worlds and seem to even avoid making eye contact with random attractive men.

I think the only way to meet women "the old fashioned way" as you put it or "organically" as it's commonly known, is to be a part of a group she's also a part of. The group acts as a buffer. For example, a yoga class, a cooking class, wedding, BBQ, for younger guys a college class, etc. This way you can slowly work your way in. March right up to a girl in a Starbucks today and ask her out and sure, you might be successful (1-2% chance maybe) but the odds are WAY against you. 10-15 years ago this would have worked a lot better. But now, girls shaming guys or just being freaked out by being approached is very common. Plus, you may even end up on Tik Tok as the "Starbucks Creep."

 

[AmsterdamAssassin]

I have no way to end my dependence on dating apps and any real life alternatives don't apply to me. I can't do cold approach, I can't meet women thru hobbies, I can't meet women thru social circle either. So apps are all that's left. For some of us, using apps are our only option and we don't really have a choice

I think that is a defeatist mindset. Dating apps might be the least risky and most convenient way for you to 'meet women', but there are plenty of social activities you could join to meet women. One thing I could suggest is to find communities like through Meetup.com where people contact online to do activities together offline.

If dating apps are all you use, and you have no social life, what do you have to offer a woman?

 

[AmsterdamAssassin]

I think the only way to meet women "the old fashioned way" as you put it or "organically" as it's commonly known, is to be a part of a group she's also a part of. The group acts as a buffer. For example, a yoga class, a cooking class, wedding, BBQ, for younger guys a college class, etc. This way you can slowly work your way in.

You have to join a group that does something you really like though, don't join a yoga class if you hate yoga.

March right up to a girl in a Starbucks today and ask her out and sure, you might be successful (1-2% chance maybe) but the odds are WAY against you. 10-15 years ago this would have worked a lot better. But now, girls shaming guys or just being freaked out by being approached is very common. Plus, you may even end up on Tik Tok as the "Starbucks Creep."

Any uncalibrated approach will be considered creepy, whether it's at Starbucks or a real coffee house. I wonder why men can no longer just have conversations with women without being creepy about it. Maybe men shouldn't think with their ****s when interacting with women.

 

[CornbreadFed]

I think that is a defeatist mindset. Dating apps might be the least risky and most convenient way for you to 'meet women',

100

 

[SW15]

March right up to a girl in a Starbucks today and ask her out and sure, you might be successful (1-2% chance maybe) but the odds are WAY against you. 10-15 years ago this would have worked a lot better. But now, girls shaming guys or just being freaked out by being approached is very common. Plus, you may even end up on Tik Tok as the "Starbucks Creep."

Any uncalibrated approach will be considered creepy, whether it's at Starbucks or a real coffee house. I wonder why men can no longer just have conversations with women without being creepy about it. Maybe men shouldn't think with their ****s when interacting with women.

A random approach at Starbucks/any coffee shop without much in the way of IOIs is likely to fail. It was also likely to fail 10-15 years ago. One of the biggest problems with any sort of random daygame is that most women at any point in time are in some sort of relationship and not seeking new penis. These women have no interest in socializing with anyone.

This is one of the reasons why approaching strangers is not very rewarding.

In theory, with approaching at bars, they are in the market for new penis because bars are where someone goes to find new social opportunities. However, the bar channel is difficult because women are expecting approaches and have their defense mechanisms way up. Also, plenty of average frustrated chumps are at bars, approaching women, and turning them off with bad approaches. That ruins the environment for all.

You have to join a group that does something you really like though, don't join a yoga class if you hate yoga.

I think the only way to meet women "the old fashioned way" as you put it or "organically" as it's commonly known, is to be a part of a group she's also a part of. The group acts as a buffer. For example, a yoga class, a cooking class, wedding, BBQ, for younger guys a college class, etc. This way you can slowly work your way in.

With fitness classes, there are many different formats. Yoga isn't the only game in town. Also, almost all fitness class formats are majority females, so ratios are good. However, the biggest challenge in fitness classes is that women are not very sociable before/after class. Part of this is due to most women being in a relationship at any given point in time.

In general, it is an easier approach to interact with some stranger woman after a fitness class than to randomly chat them up in a grocery store, mall, or outdoors.

 

[AmsterdamAssassin]

With fitness classes, there are many different formats. Yoga isn't the only game in town. Also, almost all fitness class formats are majority females, so ratios are good. However, the biggest challenge in fitness classes is that women are not very sociable before/after class. Part of this is due to most women being in a relationship at any given point in time.

'yoga' is just an example. It attracts a slightly different crowd than the fitness groups. I found many yoga groups also meet in the park, et cetera, and are generally more approachable.

In general, it is an easier approach to interact with some stranger woman after a fitness class than to randomly chat them up in a grocery store, mall, or outdoors.

I have no problem with 'cold approaching', it's very easy for me to make conversation and gauge whether there is an interest in intimacy, but I 'live in abundance' already so I don't need to seduce women. Therefore the flow of the conversation is more natural and I'm rarely viewed as 'weird' for engaging people in conversation. Be it at the grocery store, the mall or outdoors. I rarely go out, but if I go to bars it's the ones where you can have a conversation.

A random approach at Starbucks/any coffee shop without much in the way of IOIs is likely to fail. It was also likely to fail 10-15 years ago.

I don't know about Starbucks, as I prefer the kind of coffee that doesn't need a menu, but I think that if you approach only to get into a woman's pants, you will fail everywhere as your need will expose you. If you're the type to easily strike up a conversation, locations rarely matter.

One of the biggest problems with any sort of random daygame is that most women at any point in time are in some sort of relationship and not seeking new penis. These women have no interest in socializing with anyone.

I'm not boyfriend material, more like a 'backdoor man', so I don't care if they are in a relationship.

 

[Dr.Suave]

I'm more like a 'backdoor man'

I had to read that twice. I was thinking you meant something else.

 

[AmsterdamAssassin]

I had to read that twice. I was thinking you meant something else.

I will stretch her holes and leave through the backdoor while the boyfriend/husband comes in the front door.

 

[I_have_BDE]

I think that is a defeatist mindset. Dating apps might be the least risky and most convenient way for you to 'meet women', but there are plenty of social activities you could join to meet women. One thing I could suggest is to find communities like through Meetup.com where people contact online to do activities together offline.

If dating apps are all you use, and you have no social life, what do you have to offer a woman?

Except there isn't a plentiful supply of hot women on OLD. 7, to maybe 7.5 is the ceiling on there and not very many of them. I guess if you want to date those 5s and 4s OLD is good then.

 

[BergischerLöwe]

I think that is a defeatist mindset. Dating apps might be the least risky and most convenient way for you to 'meet women', but there are plenty of social activities you could join to meet women. One thing I could suggest is to find communities like through Meetup.com where people contact online to do activities together offline.

If dating apps are all you use, and you have no social life, what do you have to offer a woman?

Isn't meetup just a bunch of single guys with the same idea? The idea of meeting women thru hobbies may be good in theory, but in practice, hobbies and social groups are bound to just be a sausage fest. As I've said before tho even if I came across a dateable woman in one of those groups I still wouldn't be able to act on it. Since I've never been able to land a date with a woman that way, if I made any kind of advance like that it would just be really awkward and wouldn't work. I've stated before that in the past whenever I came across an attractive woman in any small group kinda space, like one of my college courses in my college days for example, I would always suppress my attraction to her since I knew trying to chat her up wouldn't get anywhere. Not dating or talking to women back when I was a teenager when I was supposed to learn this kinda stuff has really come back to bite me now. The fact of the matter is that it's extremely unlikely that I'd meet a woman thru any kind of meetup group and in the off chance that I do I wouldn't be able to do anything. I'm not trying to sound defeatist by saying I have no choice but use apps, in fact it's the objective reality of my situation. There has not been a time in my life where trying irl has ever been a feasible solution. Apps are indeed horrible but they're all I got. If it wasn't for apps I wouldn't have been able to get laid in the first place.

 

[BergischerLöwe]

March right up to a girl in a Starbucks today and ask her out and sure, you might be successful (1-2% chance maybe) but the odds are WAY against you. 10-15 years ago this would have worked a lot better. But now, girls shaming guys or just being freaked out by being approached is very common. Plus, you may even end up on Tik Tok as the "Starbucks Creep."

This is exactly why I've never tried to learn cold approach. It may have worked for some back in 2008 but now it doesn't. It really is true that women nowadays are freaked out when guys approach them in public and there's active psyops to discourage it. People have already tried to cancel me on the internet before for a different reason (got into a verbal altercation in public with a communist that almost turned into a physical fight and the fgt posted my name and face on social media in an attempt to defame me). It was a really distressing experience for me, and there's no way in hell I would ever risk trying to cold approach when that sort of thing could happen to me for that too.

 

[AmsterdamAssassin]

Isn't meetup just a bunch of single guys with the same idea?

Depends on the groups.