The almost tragic truth about guys that end up being successful at cold approach.

[Plinco]

I don't think less of anyone on this forum, not even people I have had beef with. However, since posting the thread, my life has been busy and involved a ton of traveling and other stuff to where I have barely had the chance to get back to people.

To answer your question around the essence of being socially adjusted and what it means, you kind of nailed it, value is everything.

Now let me offer you concrete examples.

I had one wing who did really good with cold approach and now can rely on social circle game as well. Whenever we met, I always felt like I could just BE in front of him. The guy never judged me even when I was drunk and said some stupid stuff. More of all, he made me feel at ease when I was around him. We would hang out and I always felt like I could say anything and do anything in front of him that would make me avoid judgment.

When he interacted with women, it was a similar vibe. Women could just BE in front of him. Even girls from judgmental social circles slept with him because they felt that he could keep it secret. Most of all, he brought a great energy to all social interactions, you felt uplifted by just interacting with him. If he had bad days or some stuff going on, he fixed that first before coming out. If he approached women, they felt like they could leave at anytime without getting backlash.

Now let me offer you an opposite example.

I used to wing with this guy who was very reactive and toxic. Not only was he reactive and toxic, he was woefully unaware of how he came across. The guy would do an approach, a girl would tell him he is taken, and he would ask how she met her BF and she would answer social circle or work. Then the guy would talk to me during the entirety of that session about how the girl told him that and repeatedly say "see, they aren't meeting their man through this, all of them through social circle and cold approach". Like literally, the whole freaking session was about just that and I felt DRAINED even winging with this guy.

Then when he did approach, he would run right in front of the girl and block her path. The guy also dressed like crap, like he wore a blue collared shirt with blue shorts once to a bar.

But again, it is talking about the vibe of the latter guy. He had no idea how he was coming across to me when he constantly complained during the whole session. Even I felt drained being near that guy and I wanted nothing to do with him. No matter how many approaches he does, he will not get good at this.

I appreciate your response

 

[SW15]

what should guys like this do, would you say? Half my social circle says I'm a creep, and shouldn't both approaching women at all, but as far as I remember, all I was doing was starting casual conversations and gauging where to take things. If I got rejected, I would say "Have a good night" and move on. To this day I have no idea what I did wrong, and they seem unable to really tell me.

Stop approaching and I mean it. Chances are, you are giving off a creepy vibe in the way you come off and others are picking up on it. There is probably more to this that you are not mentioning. The other thing, stop approaching in front of your circle or at their events. Focus on social skills and approach women you do not know far away from your social circle and their events. Hopefully you are in a major city which is the only place cold approach can really work, if not, move to one and make that a priority.

Also, why are you gauging where to take things in a social circle setting? You probably came off as a guy with an agenda and others sensed it. If you get rejected in that environment, you are done.

It always seemed like approach advice for bar settings involved being there with people, so it would be less cringe. I was part of the RSD Inner Circle for Denver and it still wasn't very helpful.

The words 'creep' and 'creepy' are overused. With that said, if multiple people are saying that, there's likely something off about your in-person vibe. Random people over the internet can't fully diagnose what's going on with your in-person vibe. I think @Jesse Pinkman makes a good point in saying that you'll need to stop approaching for a bit and fix the ailments in your social skills and in-person vibe first before doing more approaches. Approaching is difficult.

Social skills don't matter as much if you're looking. It would be best if you were 6'0"+ with big muscles. If you look the part, you won't get accused of being creepy. A 6'2" guy with big muscles and a 5'7" overweight guy with a neckbeard can say the same thing to a woman. The 5'7" overweight neckbeard will be considered a creep and the 6'2" guy with big muscles can get away with average or subpar verbal game.

Denver is a tough place to get sex. Denver has excessive males, which is why it is called Menver. A lot of the RSD types are Average Frustrated Chumps studying game rather than actual skilled seducers.

It is best to do nightlife approaching with another guy with a solid vibe. Finding a good wingman is difficult. There's a difference between a good friend and a good wing. A man can be a decent male friend but not have good skills as a wingman.

 

[CornbreadFed]

Dude let me share something with you thats going right over your head.

"Women will use you for more then passports and countries"
All relationships are transactional. If you dont fully get this you will go deeper into the Blackpill hole and nwver come out.

Whether you just date or search for a wife it is all transactional. Worrying over what a woman is trying to extract from you is wasted worry.

So if this woman divorce rapes you all the way to East Jabib, just be like it's cool because all relationships are transactional bro?

 

[CornbreadFed]

If marriage is not needed where you live dont do it.
Im not pro marriage or anti marriage. But living reactionary from fear is no way to live either.
I know many people that have been happy married for a long time.

Always an "if" with these posts.

Either way, unless your Filipina gf has a way to citizenship, she will have issues finding employment and etc. Unless you want to completely feed another mouth and constantly worry about ICE deporting your gf, you have to start the marriage process. The only other option is just completely do Long Distance Relationships, but who wants to do this. Now if you want to be a passport bro then go ahead because it might be an option for me later in my life. However, people need to understand that this isn't a simple and easy solution to your pvssy problems.

 

[Jesse Pinkman]

It is best to do nightlife approaching with another guy with a solid vibe. Finding a good wingman is difficult. There's a difference between a good friend and a good wing. A man can be a decent male friend but not have good skills as a wingman.

I am going to wager to say that it is d*mn near impossible. It really hit me this year and I keep mentioning it. The amount of downright P*ssies and weak + toxic men getting into pickup and game is at an all time high. Winged with one dude who would do the following:

1. Go up to girl approach, usually never getting a number because girl had BF
2. Ask her how her BF and her met
3. Proceed to tell me the whole session about how these girls are meeting their BFs and how it is not through cold approach

It became so draining that by the end of it, I wanted to get away from that guy. He ruined the entire vibe of the session with his constant complaining. The scary part is that he was actually one of the decent wingmen because he approached. The bar is so low man.

It is almost impossible to find a decent and supportive wing. You need to just go out there and do it solo. You just have to really want it, that is it.

 

[BillyPilgrim]

No half measures Jesse.

 

[BillyPilgrim]

Good OP Jesse. If you're skilled at making random small talk with people, you can be more improv and fresh with your targets and not rely on anything canned or obvious to open with. Better skilled at reading people too.

 

[SW15]

Winged with one dude who would do the following:

1. Go up to girl approach, usually never getting a number because girl had BF
2. Ask her how her BF and her met
3. Proceed to tell me the whole session about how these girls are meeting their BFs and how it is not through cold approach

That is shiit game. Also, I rarely ever get IHAB'ed anymore as compared to the 2000s. I think getting IHAB'ed is a sign of a lack of social calibration. It's likely I've approached a lot of women with boyfriends but I likely ejected from the interaction as I saw it wasn't going anywhere. When I have gotten rejected 2010-present, I have gotten much different excuses than the boyfriend excuse.

The amount of downright P*ssies and weak + toxic men getting into pickup and game is at an all time high.

More and more men are unattached and thirsty.

It is almost impossible to find a decent and supportive wing. You need to just go out there and do it solo. You just have to really want it, that is it.

I have rolled to bars solo and it's not that big of a deal. With that said, I prefer to roll to bars with a wing. Some interactions in nightlife are easier with a wing. Part of the reason I've been more of a daygamer is because daygame is more conducive to the solo guy than nightlife venue game.

I think that the lack of a good wing is a sign of something missing among male friends. I have had good male friends who weren't toxic and in LTRs, but they weren't good nightlife venue conversationalists. That doesn't make them bad or toxic people, just not the right person to help in night game.

I don't think pickup/seducer groups are a place to meet a good wing. I think a good wing is met in the same way other male friendships are formed. I think the friendship has to form first and then the seduction and night game element is introduced to the relationship.

 

[Divorced w 3]

That is shiit game. Also, I rarely ever get IHAB'ed anymore as compared to the 2000s. I think getting IHAB'ed is a sign of a lack of social calibration. It's likely I've approached a lot of women with boyfriends but I likely ejected from the interaction as I saw it wasn't going anywhere. When I have gotten rejected 2010-present, I have gotten much different excuses than the boyfriend excuse.



More and more men are unattached and thirsty.



I have rolled to bars solo and it's not that big of a deal. With that said, I prefer to roll to bars with a wing. Some interactions in nightlife are easier with a wing. Part of the reason I've been more of a daygamer is because daygame is more conducive to the solo guy than nightlife venue game.

I think that the lack of a good wing is a sign of something missing among male friends. I have had good male friends who weren't toxic and in LTRs, but they weren't good nightlife venue conversationalists. That doesn't make them bad or toxic people, just not the right person to help in night game.

I don't think pickup/seducer groups are a place to meet a good wing. I think a good wing is met in the same way other male friendships are formed. I think the friendship has to form first and then the seduction and night game element is introduced to the relationship.

If you run game solo at the bar you need to be tighter than tight … so many things can go wrong, especially looking like an alcoholic, or friendless… I can do it, and I don’t recommend it because it’s not even time well spent. My friend is so mad at me these days for getting a girl friend because we cruised the bar so well together. I had the tighter game but he is super social too. It was truly super fun and we knocked em down a lot.

 

[TheMage]

Ever since getting into seriously daygaming more than a year ago and now looking to get back into it, I have noticed an almost tragic nature to cold approach and the people that usually get into it. After having winged with more than 10 different guys and seeing just how hopeless they were despite doing cold approach for a while, I realize that there is almost this tragic characteristic most of us do not notice about cold approach at first.

Why the vast majority of dudes who get into pickup and do "game sessions" are helpless.

I am ready to call out, most guys out there "sarging" are completely screwed and won't see serious success with women. The ones who go out every weekend to do "daygame sessions" are not going to see actual success (lays) from daygame for one reason. Most of them missed a critical step in their social development and it shows. It shows in how they come off to others, to the general public, and even to any socially adjusted guy. It does not matter what "game technique" they use or how many approaches they do, they are screwed and for them to continue to "cold approach" is to their detriment.

It is to a point right now where after going through more than 10 wings, I am officially done meeting wings on a pickup community. I could never introduce these guys to my normal friends because of how weird, strange, creepy, toxic, and low value they are. That is my point, you could not actually introduce these guys to someone who is cool with good social skills and especially not a hot girl and her friends because it would lower your value to do so!

Almost all of these guys have a major toxic trait to them that they are not even aware of. A lot of them, despite "taking action", come off in such a way that any socially adjusted person would want to run away from. These guys are a net drain to the people around them and almost all women instinctively pick this out. I can go more in-depth about some toxic traits I have noticed but it is safe to say that these men are toxic and missing key steps in their social development.

This applies to about 90% of dudes who get into PUA and go out "sarging".

This is why you have guys that do 100s of approaches but get no lays and have little to show for it, there are key things missing in their social development.

A socially adjusted guy won't have these issues but then again, socially adjusted guys rarely go into cold approach.

In most cases, a socially adjusted guy already made his friends in high school and college. Most of the times, socially adjusted guys are happy with an LTR and a loving girlfriend. Socially adjusted men end up meeting a girl through their friends or their circles and they end up with her long-term. Most of these men do not really have the need to get laid a lot because to them, an LTR is more satisfying.

So what guys actually end up being successful at cold approach?

If there is one thing I have found in guys that ended up being successful with cold approach to where they regularly got laid off of it, it is the fact that they were actually socially adjusted guys that happened to hit a rough patch at some point in life. Like these guys could have easily been the popular kid in school but some bizarre circumstance in their life happened which stopped them from even having a chance. Maybe they were home schooled, their parents were divorcing so their life took a hit, or they had a major thing happened that prevented them from happily socializing.

All the building blocks are already there. You can sit down, talk to these guys like normal people, and they can also relate to strangers in general in a way that most men that do cold approach cannot. Women pick up on this almost instinctively which is why these guys actually end up seeing lays from daygame and nightgame when they cold approach.

You can introduce these guys to your normal friends and hot girls you know and it will either be neutral to your status or elevate it. The only thing that was different for these guys compared to a Socially Adjusted guy is that they happened to fall into a tough time which stopped them from reaching their social potential but all the building blocks were there.

So what can the typical PUA student actually do?

I think most guys who get into Pickup should avoid cold approach at the start. These guys are better off learning how to socialize and connect with people. A lot of these guys can benefit from social hobbies that are more focused on social interactions but not necessarily getting laid. They are better off learning what is socially strange and off putting and what is desirable behavior.

Unfortunately, after a certain age, this becomes a lot tougher to learn. After 30 in most cases, men get so set in their ways that they cannot learn this.

If most guys spent a couple of years learning how to make small talk, socially connect with people, and how to make friends, they would have a better foundation for PUA and game actually not come off as weird, awkward, or strange when talking to women in public.

Hey, I am new to this world and your post gave me a lot of hope. I come from India, a state specifically where alcohol is banned so no clubs, bars, or parties. And since I'm from a very small town, not a lot of socializing happening at all. To give you a perspective of how small this ****ty town is, there were 7-10 profiles on Tinder, without any pictures and even fewer on Bumble.

Anyway, I do realize I have pretty good social skills and I hit a rough patch because of my med school. At first, I used to feel like I wasn't good at communicating, which might be true and I read books on it, experienced life more in general. I've come so far that I can easily make friends, connect with pretty much everyone (danced on the street with strangers and talked so long with cashiers that people in line got mad), and have a good time. Not socially awkward or creepy in any way which became apparent when I made a friend in New York and she literally pointed out a guy that was creeping her out. I could see his poor social skills.

Anyway, I just want to thank you because all this time this feeling gnawed at me, that something was wrong with me. I certainly need more experience which I know will come with time. Cheers!

 

[I_have_BDE]

The words 'creep' and 'creepy' are overused. With that said, if multiple people are saying that, there's likely something off about your in-person vibe. Random people over the internet can't fully diagnose what's going on with your in-person vibe. I think @Jesse Pinkman makes a good point in saying that you'll need to stop approaching for a bit and fix the ailments in your social skills and in-person vibe first before doing more approaches. Approaching is difficult.

Social skills don't matter as much if you're looking. It would be best if you were 6'0"+ with big muscles. If you look the part, you won't get accused of being creepy. A 6'2" guy with big muscles and a 5'7" overweight guy with a neckbeard can say the same thing to a woman. The 5'7" overweight neckbeard will be considered a creep and the 6'2" guy with big muscles can get away with average or subpar verbal game.

Denver is a tough place to get sex. Denver has excessive males, which is why it is called Menver. A lot of the RSD types are Average Frustrated Chumps studying game rather than actual skilled seducers.

It is best to do nightlife approaching with another guy with a solid vibe. Finding a good wingman is difficult. There's a difference between a good friend and a good wing. A man can be a decent male friend but not have good skills as a wingman.

I have a coworker who's like 6-8 and socially awkward and weighs around 320lbs. Not obese but big bone frame guy. The hot girls at work get creeped out by him when he tries to flirt or just small talk or complement them. A couple times hot girls told the managers on him because they felt uneasy by him and he can't get dates anywhere. I'm only 5-9 and the same girls never complained to managers about me.

I think in this case when you're VERY tall like that and come off awkward that too can make a woman feel uneasy due to the large size and with predators these days and all. 6-2 is tall but not towering like someone who's 6-8.

 

[BillyPilgrim]

I have a coworker who's like 6-8 and socially awkward and weighs around 320lbs. Not obese but big bone frame guy. The hot girls at work get creeped out by him when he tries to flirt or just small talk or complement them. A couple times hot girls told the managers on him because they felt uneasy by him and he can't get dates anywhere. I'm only 5-9 and the same girls never complained to managers about me.

I think in this case when you're VERY tall like that and come off awkward that too can make a woman feel uneasy due to the large size and with predators these days and all. 6-2 is tall but not towering like someone who's 6-8.

Then you learn to pimp walk and shrink your frame. Jesus.

 

[I_have_BDE]

Then you learn to pimp walk and shrink your frame. Jesus.

6-2 is the sweet spot. Being like 6-8 sucks when buying certain cars, flying, etc.

 

[Jesse Pinkman]

6-2 is the sweet spot. Being like 6-8 sucks when buying certain cars, flying, etc.

5'11 is the most depressing lol, we have that almost there feeling to us and are forever insecure about our heights lol.

 

[SW15]

5'11 is the most depressing lol, we have that almost there feeling to us and are forever insecure about our heights lol.

5'10" is not a good male height either. It's not bad. 5'10" isn't short but it isn't favored either. 5'9" is worse.

Below 5'9" and women consider you short, especially White women. Hispanic men below 5'9" can do well with Hispanic women below 5'9". White women think below 5'9" is bad and are typically unenthusiastic about 5'9"-5'11". 6'0"+ is what White women in the USA seek.

 

[CornbreadFed]

5'10" is not a good male height either. It's not bad. 5'10" isn't short but it isn't favored either. 5'9" is worse.

Below 5'9" and women consider you short, especially White women. Hispanic men below 5'9" can do well with Hispanic women below 5'9". White women think below 5'9" is bad and are typically unenthusiastic about 5'9"-5'11". 6'0"+ is what White women in the USA seek.

6ft 1 is worse, its common to go to some places and be the tallest person in the room, but then go to another and be average height or sometimes shorter lol.

 

[Jesse Pinkman]

I don't think pickup/seducer groups are a place to meet a good wing. I think a good wing is met in the same way other male friendships are formed. I think the friendship has to form first and then the seduction and night game element is introduced to the relationship.

Affirmative. I have been in awe as to just how crappy most of these guys are with women and just how often they display weak and toxic behavior DESPITE the fact that the dating coaches and gurus they follow advise against it. In a way, it is almost tragic. The average guy will never run into good content and quality material around game like these dudes have. However, these dudes are so toxic, hopeless, and beyond help that even that material is not saving them or turning the tides for them in any way.

I tried to get to the bottom of it and I really think it comes down to a few things. One is a massive and touchy ego, these dudes are beyond criticism and will argue with you or turn petty if you criticize them. In interactions, it is always about them and they always make it about them. You even see it in pickup groups where these dudes are often trying to be moderator or group leader and not actually trying to learn game. In one group I was a part of, the leader was a dude in his late 30s that went out for months and could not get a date by cold approach, this in a major city!

The next is just the fact that they are mentally and emotionally weak males that do not take well to rejection. Take the wing I made an example of. The guy gets rejected, asks girls how they met their boyfriends, the girls tell him how (usually social circle and work), and then THE WHOLE FREAKING SESSION this dude whines about it to me. He did this in multiple sessions and was woefully unaware of how he was coming across. It spoke to how weak he is as a man to where rejection depresses him and makes him into a toxic whiner that just keeps crying about how women are meeting men. I mean this guy was downright awful in terms of his vibe and how much he whined after a rejection, it wore on you and made your game weaker.

I think there is some OCD or some form of illness in these dudes. Like my whiney wing would whine but then cold approach out of the blue, it was truly sad to see.

Finally, I think these dudes lack direction or urgency in life. They don't have places to be and just think that they can keep doing this spam approach stuff forever. It shows in how they go out time and time again at nights, the same places, the same game, don't pull, and don't change a thing.

 

[Jesse Pinkman]

5'10" is not a good male height either. It's not bad. 5'10" isn't short but it isn't favored either. 5'9" is worse.

Below 5'9" and women consider you short, especially White women. Hispanic men below 5'9" can do well with Hispanic women below 5'9". White women think below 5'9" is bad and are typically unenthusiastic about 5'9"-5'11". 6'0"+ is what White women in the USA seek.

Elevator shoes and lifts will help us 5'11 guys.

If I was below 5'9, I would try to get as buff as possible. Shorter dudes put on muscle faster and I would capitalize on that. A role model for short guys would be dudes like Alexander Volkanovski (UFC Featherweight champ). Bulk up and dress stylish, some girls will fall for it.

 

[TheMage]

Along with their 6’2 boyfriends. Any girl, especially a gym girl who is usually hot and in shape, who has any sort of look to her and is under 30, is taken fast by the genetically blessed.

The whole point of Sosuave is get with hot girls under 30 with 0 divorces and 0 kids who arent sluts. Thats all we want here.. Not that the older crowd won’t take women in their mid 30s, and despite the fact that there may be competition for childless women in their mids 30s, but instinctively, men know how to act around older women and shouldn't need Sosuave.

Its a man’s DNA to go after young hot sexy women, just like it’s in a woman‘s DNA to go after taller men. It’s why women hate older men dating younger men, they freak out about Leonardo with his 25 year olds. Older women say: ‘It’s disgusting, it’s gross, he should act his age,”. Well no, it’s not. You are just angry because you lost your sex appeal and therefore you lost you power, and there is nothing you can do to get it back. So you have to criticize what others do to make yourself feel better.

Women: your leverage is your youth, your looks, and your fertility. Men don’t care about much else.

So if you’re not 6’2, should you just forget about said hot gym girls under 30 at all? I feel like the mid 30s women complaining about older guys dating younger girls :/

 

[I_have_BDE]

6ft 1 is worse, its common to go to some places and be the tallest person in the room, but then go to another and be average height or sometimes shorter lol.

Still easy to buy clothes. Being 6 8 is tougher.

I'm only 5-9 and my biggest issue around here is most pants sizes like 40 plus inch waist because of all the fat people and I'm trim.