At what point does money become irrelevant?

AAAgent

Master Don Juan
Joined
Dec 10, 2008
Messages
2,649
Reaction score
319
I dont even watch MSM. All you have linked in terms of data is pretty much clickbait articles.

First you talk about hyperinflation which is 50% month over month vs the 5% year over year we're seeing. Give or take a few % since the official numbers are sugarcoated a bit. Still nowhere near hyperinflation.

Then you claim interest rate hikes will make pensions and 401ks worthless. No logic there.

Then you say the dollar could become useless within months, but then shortly after that you say the dollar will be fine until elections are over next year.

You present very few real numbers with charts and all of your writing just reads like aomething I'd see off twitter. You don't even have a short position.

Anyone can link together various events around the world and push some theory of the entire economy collapsing, but if they have no skin in the game their theory is largely not that strong.

Just reads like any other doomsday scenario.


I will say though, your theory isn't without it's merits. There is a lot of truth in there. My main issue is that the timing of what you say will happen is just too unrealistic. You are basically attempting to predict a black swan event. Things like this have too many moving parts to be accurately predicted down to the month/year.
- Hyperinflation, already addressed clearly. If you don't agree or see how this can snowball quickly, then we can agree to disagree.

- Interest rates affecting 401k's/stocks. These are not only being affected by interest rates directly but also indirectly. Many companies own government debt, especially financial companies like banks. This was previously a great way to safely park your excess cash or just cash in general to generate yield in a low to 0% interest rate environment. Because of how fast fed has increased interest rates essentially from 0 to 5%+ in the span of a little over 12 months, the value of these bonds has depreciated extremely quickly before companies have even had a chance to react. When interest rates go up, bond yield goes up, but principle value of the bond decreases.

When you're holding $500bn in 10 year government bonds per say at 2% yield, but suddenly in a span of 8 months later, the fed funds rate is 4.5%. You yield increases to 3%+ but now your bond principal value has just dropped by 15%. The yield doesn't make up for this loss and when financials are reported, these numbers eventually hit the books, show that the bank doesn't own enough assets to meet its liabilities and cause panic. 2020-2021 numbers are much worse for those who own the 10 year. This is what caused the collapse of the few banks earlier this year and regional banking crisis from March 2023 to May 2023. Many banks are still in danger zones, some are surviving due to M&A but


Due to rates and economic environment, funding and lending standards are tightening extremely. Those that need money, especially start-ups and small businesses aren't able to get it. Many banks just can't lend due to the above. Many of these companies will fold or also start laying off if they haven't already.

The rates are really hurting the economy in multiple ways. The longer or higher rates persist or get, the worse the situation is.

- Dollar crash can literally happen anytime. It's like a house of cards, similar to the market. Launching the BRICS currency, China dumping bonds, etc. You'll honestly need to do your own research as I don't have the time to detail everything here and it does take a lot of time to research, digest, and put the pieces together.

- Presenting few real numbers. Again, I can't explain and teach global economics, geopolitics, markets, trends, all in a single posts and provide sources. I've cited information that outlines the picture. If that isn't enough for you, again you can DYOR. That's exactly what I did.

- No skin in the game. I never said I had no skin in the game. I just said I wasn't shorting. I'm own physical metals, Bitcoin, and some cash. I've cashed out my 401k, although a bit early probably but im okay with this. I'll also be selling my stocks shortly. Will accumulate until end of summer and then pay off all debt and just weather the storm. If the storm comes before then, i'm already prepared anyway and won't be much affected. Just not shorting the market which is an unnecessary risk when i'm in assets that do essentially the same thing with lower risk.

- Reads like any other doomsday scenario. Yes, it's a bad scenario but i don't focus too much on the bad, although I expect it to be horrible. I'm more focused on how I can make money and at the very least, preserve my wealth during these times. Even if i'm wrong and the can gets kicked down the road, my assets will still do well an environments slowly get worse, instead of quickly getting worse but i'm hedged either way.
 

EyeBRollin

Master Don Juan
Joined
Oct 18, 2015
Messages
10,697
Reaction score
8,641
Age
35
- Hyperinflation, already addressed clearly. If you don't agree or see how this can snowball quickly, then we can agree to disagree.
Lay off the doomsday blogs. Inflation was much worse in the 70s and even that wasn’t hyperinflation. USA lacks the fundamentals for hyperinflation to be of concern. 5% year over year is only barely above optimal.
 

jaygreenb

Master Don Juan
Joined
Jul 24, 2012
Messages
1,139
Reaction score
565
Lay off the doomsday blogs. Inflation was much worse in the 70s and even that wasn’t hyperinflation. USA lacks the fundamentals for hyperinflation to be of concern. 5% year over year is only barely above optimal.
To be fair, they keep changing the rules on how it is calculated to pad the numbers. If calculated the same way as the 70's, today would be a lot higher
 

EyeBRollin

Master Don Juan
Joined
Oct 18, 2015
Messages
10,697
Reaction score
8,641
Age
35
To be fair, they keep changing the rules on how it is calculated to pad the numbers. If calculated the same way as the 70's, today would be a lot higher
I always hear about hyperinflation every time there is a Democratic President. I never hear about it when there is a Republican President. It would appear GOP tax cuts for the wealthy are never inflationary. Funny how that works.

(There is no threat of hyperinflation. It is all election season rhetoric.)
 

jaygreenb

Master Don Juan
Joined
Jul 24, 2012
Messages
1,139
Reaction score
565
I always hear about hyperinflation every time there is a Democratic President. I never hear about it when there is a Republican President. It would appear GOP tax cuts for the wealthy are never inflationary. Funny how that works.

(There is no threat of hyperinflation. It is all election season rhetoric.)
I did not reference hyper inflation, I compared how it is calculated today. Not sure how this became political, are you ok?
 

jaygreenb

Master Don Juan
Joined
Jul 24, 2012
Messages
1,139
Reaction score
565
Hyperinflation was the topic of discussion. Calling 5% year over year rate as hyperinflation is either
political or delusional.
I know it is hard for you to stay on topic but lets try. You said 70's were worse and 5% is barely over ideal. I just pointed out todays 5% is not calculated the same as the 70s.
 

FlirtLife

Master Don Juan
Joined
Jan 31, 2023
Messages
519
Reaction score
263
There are three pretty distinct areas of this so depends what you are specifically referencing. They are Bitcoin, Alt coins and CBDC's
I was quoting a post by AAAgent [1] - a post you upvoted. Why don't you ask the poster what their post meant?

[2]
Government has put us on the brink of hyperinflation by massively increasing the circulating supply of dollars. They are trying to combat this by slowing down the m2 velocity and decreasing the amount people spend/exchange dollars by increasing interest rates. This is being counter-acted by many large nations abandoning the dollar and joining BRICS and Crypto thus decreasing the demand for purchasing dollars and using dollars compounding on the supply issue. ...
 

jaygreenb

Master Don Juan
Joined
Jul 24, 2012
Messages
1,139
Reaction score
565
I was quoting a post by AAAgent [1] - a post you upvoted. Why don't you ask the poster what their post meant?

[2]
Because you asked the question, i'll answer if you clarify what you are looking for
 

FlirtLife

Master Don Juan
Joined
Jan 31, 2023
Messages
519
Reaction score
263
I know it is hard for you to stay on topic but lets try. You said 70's were worse and 5% is barely over ideal. I just pointed out todays 5% is not calculated the same as the 70s.
Two can play at defending other posters. AAAgent posted "Government has put us on the brink of hyperinflation" [1], which is the topic. Multiple posters [2] [3] [4] have mentioned this is not hyperinflation, which is the topic. Was AAAgent wrong to say we are on the "brink of hyperinflation"? You consistently make excuses for his wild claims and conspiracy theories, be it pensions called "scam investments", or saying nothing when he posts we "are on the brink of hyerinfation". Yet when AAAgent insults me as a "dumba$$", that is a post you upvote?


[1]
Government has put us on the brink of hyperinflation by massively increasing the circulating supply of dollars. They are trying to combat this by slowing down the m2 velocity and decreasing the amount people spend/exchange dollars by increasing interest rates.
[2]
Are you aware of what hyperinflation even is? Hyperinflation is 50% inflation month over month. Right now the government has put us at maybe 4-5% year over year. Unless I'm retarded I don't see how 4-5% year over year is anywhere close to 50% month over month.
[3]
First you talk about hyperinflation which is 50% month over month vs the 5% year over year we're seeing. Give or take a few % since the official numbers are sugarcoated a bit. Still nowhere near hyperinflation.

Then you claim interest rate hikes will make pensions and 401ks worthless. No logic there.

Then you say the dollar could become useless within months, but then shortly after that you say the dollar will be fine until elections are over next year.
[4]
Hyperinflation was the topic of discussion. Calling 5% year over year rate as hyperinflation is either
political or delusional.
 

jaygreenb

Master Don Juan
Joined
Jul 24, 2012
Messages
1,139
Reaction score
565
Two can play at defending other posters. AAAgent posted "Government has put us on the brink of hyperinflation" [1], which is the topic. Multiple posters [2] [3] [4] have mentioned this is not hyperinflation, which is the topic. Was AAAgent wrong to say we are on the "brink of hyperinflation"? You consistently make excuses for his wild claims and conspiracy theories, be it pensions called "scam investments", or saying nothing when he posts we "are on the brink of hyerinfation". Yet when AAAgent insults me as a "dumba$$", that is a post you upvote?


[1]


[2]


[3]


[4]
This is getting a little weird. I agree with a lot of the overall sentiments but I'm not going to cite each sentence and what percentage I agree. Some of the details not completely on board with but a lot of the overall themes to different extents and timelines. Pick something specific and i will clarify for you

In regards to hyper inflation, think it is possible and wouldn't rule it out, definately will happen in other countries. What timeline and likely hood, no clue. I made that pretty clear in my prior posts, very well could kick the can for a long time. I do not know
 

jaygreenb

Master Don Juan
Joined
Jul 24, 2012
Messages
1,139
Reaction score
565
Definitely agree, there are a lot of different areas that could break down and set off a chain of other failures. The only real question for me is how effective can the fed/govt play wack a mole and how long can it be delayed. Personally think it would be prudent to be positioned for short and longer term scenarios. For example, in 2020, when covid started to kick off and all markets were falling off a cliff. At that point in time I would have never guessed what level of stimulus would happen or that the markets would just rip to the upside for a few years. One of those the markets can stay irrational longer than you can stay solvent. So basically, be ready for anything
Like right here
Two can play at defending other posters. AAAgent posted "Government has put us on the brink of hyperinflation" [1], which is the topic. Multiple posters [2] [3] [4] have mentioned this is not hyperinflation, which is the topic. Was AAAgent wrong to say we are on the "brink of hyperinflation"? You consistently make excuses for his wild claims and conspiracy theories, be it pensions called "scam investments", or saying nothing when he posts we "are on the brink of hyerinfation". Yet when AAAgent insults me as a "dumba$$", that is a post you upvote?


[1]


[2]


[3]


[4]
 

AAAgent

Master Don Juan
Joined
Dec 10, 2008
Messages
2,649
Reaction score
319
This is getting a little weird. I agree with a lot of the overall sentiments but I'm not going to cite each sentence and what percentage I agree. Some of the details not completely on board with but a lot of the overall themes to different extents and timelines. Pick something specific and i will clarify for you

In regards to hyper inflation, think it is possible and wouldn't rule it out, definately will happen in other countries. What timeline and likely hood, no clue. I made that pretty clear in my prior posts, very well could kick the can for a long time. I do not know
Better man than me. Spoon feeding is a pet peeve of mine. Especially since I spent a great deal of time learning these things on my own, figuring this out on my own to get to where I'm at.
 

MatureDJ

Master Don Juan
Joined
Apr 30, 2006
Messages
11,295
Reaction score
4,664
First off, every financial calculation must adjust the after-tax income for the cost of living (especially housing) of wherever the job home is vs. some reference (e.g., a place out in the sticks where the land value is basically zero, or at least some minimum that you would be satisfied with). Next is that there should be some baseline spending amount that you feel is worth working to earn - i.e., anything over this would be "I don't care for the utility of the spending if I have to work extra for" - and earning over this amount would mean that you spend that same baseline amount but sock away the excess. Then finally, there is the point of "critical mass", where you are financially secure at that desired baseline amount of spending forever (or until some age when you figure extra money wouldn't matter); once you hit that point, you should retire.
 

MatureDJ

Master Don Juan
Joined
Apr 30, 2006
Messages
11,295
Reaction score
4,664
When I was married between my spouse and I we made ~750k US a year full comp, base salaries amounted to ~525k.

I out earned her by almost 6 figs.

I left that career to pursue my current one which pays a fraction of the aforementioned, I am 1000% happier.
You FinanceMog the sheet out of me.
 

Pierce Manhammer

Moderator
Joined
Jun 2, 2021
Messages
5,028
Reaction score
6,032
Location
PRC
You FinanceMog the sheet out of me.
Eh, I did once upon a time, but I also lived in like the 2-3rd highest COLA zip in the US. A dozen eggs is $7, a gallon of good OJ is over $10.
 

FlirtLife

Master Don Juan
Joined
Jan 31, 2023
Messages
519
Reaction score
263
@TheEveningChronograph - You have a problem with my investment advice, what is it?

You will find the 4% rule discussed on reddit, YouTube, in news articles, on Investopedia and Wikipedia. It's very basic, and if you reject it, feel free to tell reddit, YouTube, Investopedia and Wikipedia they're all wrong.

WHOA WHOA WHOA! Who TF gave you permission to dish out anything besides sh!tty financial advice?!? Suck it long.
 
Top