Path to learning Game

[Casanova Official]

Hey everyone. This is my first thread in this forum.

I thought I would introduce myself and ask you all Game luminaries for advice regarding learning Game. It's probably been 2 weeks that I found out about the red pill. What do you think is the fastest and most optimised path to learning game? What would be your path if you were to start over? Give me some bottlenecks that you faced while learning game and things to avoid.

For context, I have just started my college. I have never had a girlfriend but I did have an affair when I turned 16. It started perfectly. I was naturally good in studies and looks and AMOGed her boyfriend effortlessly without even trying. But as with everyone else who came searching for the red pill, I too lost frame and made mistakes and realised that there has to be a better way to do this. I did read the Art of Seduction by Robert Greene at that time but I had no idea that there is such a wealth of information specifically for men. I don't claim to be a natural but I do get a LOT of IOIs and AIs from girls. I probably have more female friends than male friends tbh. But, time and again, I have always felt that I make a lot of conversational mistakes. Many mistakes get pardoned because of my looks. But I feel this need within me to be perfect.

In the last 2 weeks I have read a lot of Game theory. I comfortably feel I know the basics. Since I have been doing a lot of research, I would be consolidating a list of materials, my thoughts and what I think my roadmap should look like. I acknowledge that I am new at this so feel free to critic and give me suggestions and correct me if I am wrong.

I listened to the Player's Guide by Rollo Tomassi twice on Audible. In his book, I found mention to some of the game luminaries

• Mystery - (I'm ignoring reading his work for now because almost everything seems to be based on his work)
• Neil Strauss - (I'm ignoring reading his work for now because it seems to me that he was the first person who was very articulate and reading the next gen books are enough to get a rough estimation of what his work was like.)
• Roissey (Heartiste) - I saw his video on how he tricked an entire population into believing he was a celeb. He is really short and not that good looking. That's why I felt that he must be extremely good at game. So I'm reading his book.
• Roosh - Got all 4 of his books for free on kindle. I love the uniqueness of his books. Rather than talking about the game he gives us an analysis of some of the Alphas and their special traits on what made them Alphas and what I can learn from each of them. His other books talk about specific scenarios for picking up girls like on a ship, in hong kong, etc. (Personally, I think analysing and emulating Alphas is the fastest way to learn gesticulations and body language and conversational nuggets. There are 3 Alphas that I am trying to emulate - Damon from Vamp Diaries, Robert Downey Jr, Ryan Reynolds. I would probably write a book on the analysis when I am done internalising it.)
• Thats more or less it. I have also been skimming through the pickup journey of Ryan Stone (his book Fuccfiles where he has outlined several lessons learned from a decade of women) and Nick Krauser (all 4 of his books on Memoir).
• Also been casually skimming through the other books of Nick Krauser where he talks about how he has perfected his Day game, the Frame Praxeology (which is free on kindle) by Rian Stone where he talks about the 4 pillars of having a unshakable frame (Physical, Intellectual, Emotional, Vision), also the books of Troy Francis, particularly the 3 part volume of Fifty Shades of Game where he talks about different fetishes like ****, Swinging, Stripper Clubs.

I don't intend to think about game as an exercise in philosophical speculation. But I feel like reading the diverse works of different PUAs, their experience, their way of thinking and the clarity that came in them after decades of practise is certainly something that would shorten my learning curve and make me aware of things that I could not have known or guessed.

And also, one more thing and this is weird but I had been doing two courses from a male pornstar (Stirling Cooper) on Sexual Dominance and Dirty Talk and i have been binge reading all of his books. He admits in his course that he had been influenced by Papa Tomassi and has applied the red pill concepts to his porn career. So his take is interesting.

While going through this forum and looking at the discussions, there were 2 personalities that caught my eye. Pook and Shark. The archived website of Shark and his book Black Flag are interesting takes on Game. While Rollo Tomassi mostly gives abstractions and descriptions on game tactics, Shark gives direct prescriptions. It's pure gold. The book of Pook and all of Pook's work also had a different angle on Game.

I think that in this forum, the Hall of Fame and the short tactics page are the only things that should be read. If I have something to ask which already has a thread then probably that's the only time I should use the Discussion Forum.

And also, I saw there were some book regarding woman's psychology but I think reading those now would be low utility. I should probably finish and internalise the knowledge from theses legendary PUAs so that the mistakes I make are better.

P.S: If anyone wants any book or course that I have mentioned above, feel free to contact me. We can work something out.

 

[Duff55]

U have read all of shark's work?
I suppose u might have stumbled upon my thread but doesn't matter, I think that he has covered so much and so vastly that u don't need much more information but I agree in the pursuit of some.
Since I am coming from a similiar position, little bit longer, what I had found resourseful with information was old roosh's forum, had a large variety of posts and many interesting things covered, the forum's archive link is with the same name but .network at the end, as I think if u have covered shark and pook u have all the basics covered already, or could learn them from them, and with more specific information roosh's forum is pretty good

 

[Casanova Official]

U have read all of shark's work?
I suppose u might have stumbled upon my thread but doesn't matter, I think that he has covered so much and so vastly that u don't need much more information but I agree in the pursuit of some.
Since I am coming from a similiar position, little bit longer, what I had found resourseful with information was old roosh's forum, had a large variety of posts and many interesting things covered, the forum's archive link is with the same name but .network at the end, as I think if u have covered shark and pook u have all the basics covered already, or could learn them from them, and with more specific information roosh's forum is pretty good

I was mostly casually skimming through stuff. It was like a cursory glance. I would have to read the entire material more thoroughly to be able to apply it in real life. Also, thanks for the suggestion. I will check Roosh's forum out. I think I need to focus more on my body language and gesticulations. Inner game will develop with time. Atleast outwardly I should be able to pull it off for now.

 

[gwoppin]

Theres a book by an ex-pimp called The Pimp Game. I downloaded a pdf version of it for free somewhere online and would definitely recommend. Its an easy read when youre on your commute, dont have to bring a book with you

 

[Casanova Official]

Theres a book by an ex-pimp called The Pimp Game. I downloaded a pdf version of it for free somewhere online and would definitely recommend. Its an easy read when youre on your commute, dont have to bring a book with you

Thanks for the suggestion. I have downloaded and read around 1/3rd of the book. I will write what I think about the book when I finish it. So far, after reading the description of the pimp, I feel as though the anonymity and lack of emotions has been over exaggerated. Also, in one part I read something along the lines of and I'm paraphrasing "A true pimp does not have sex with his ho's because doing so will make him human for them." Well... then what's the point of power without sex? I think what I understand from the works of the most Luminary PUAs is that an Alpha occasionally also shows borderline humility, so as to not absolutely turn off people with his arrogance. His humility is like a prize. Something that is rare. That makes him all the more valuable. It is earned. Similarly, for the woman, she needs to earn the sex with him. Even the cliche game tactic "****y and funny" has the part "funny". I feel that the description given about the pimp is inhuman to pull off. Even if someone gets uncontrollable power he would probably not be human enough to enjoy it.

I need to finish reading the mack, but I feel there might be a perfect concoction between the mack and pimp that would be regarded as the Alpha (the ideal lover). In heartiste, Roissey points out that a great boyfriend can never be the ideal lover. But there are glimpses of great boyfriend in the perfect seducers maybe just a few touches which is enough to keep a woman hooked. She will want to earn that part of him. She would see only glimpses of it and would never be able to get it in it's entirety. The moment she gets all of it is the moment she loses interest.

Or maybe there might be another way, where the ideal lover just ravishes her selflessly all the time and she loves getting objectified. She hopes she will be the one to tame him only to get ravished over and over again and then falling in love with it. Maybe I am just mixing my blue pill beliefs when I am thinking about giving her glimpses of care. Who knows. Guess I have to read more. Rollo Tomassi did say that when people stumble across the red pill, they tend to take in parts and mix it with their blue pill conditionings. I have always tried to read with an open mind though. Always realising that I might be wrong and even the author might be wrong. Only things that work in the laboratory of life is right, nothing else is.

 

[Serenity]

What do you think is the fastest and most optimised path to learning game? What would be your path if you were to start over?

Practice more than you read. That's what I did and I'd do it all over again. The reading material is just for inspiration regarding what to try, your personal experience will tell you everything you need to know about what works for you and what doesn't.

If you don't have a fragile ego incapable of handling failure and you're capable of learning from failure then you'll learn game very quickly.

Get out there and fvck around.

 

[Peaks&Valleys]

Nice first post... sounds like you've got a plan and are a man of action.

The "guru" I liked the most was Corey Wayne. I didn't see that you had mentioned him. Very good with internal game: becoming comfortable with yourself, and confidence and so forth.

I did read the Art of Seduction by Robert Green

Damn... how long did this take you? I only got about half way through, and that took me a while.. I didn't get much from it other than everyone's experiences are different... which would be huge contradiction to Rollo's books.

 

[Casanova Official]

Practice more than you read. That's what I did and I'd do it all over again. The reading material is just for inspiration regarding what to try, your personal experience will tell you everything you need to know about what works for you and what doesn't.

If you don't have a fragile ego incapable of handling failure and you're capable of learning from failure then you'll learn game very quickly.

Get out there and fvck around.

Yeah. I think you are right. I probably should focus more on executing.
There's this girl SMV 9 who is kind of interested in me. I feel a bit afraid to mess it up. Probably that's the reason I am going all out on reading books so that I don't mess up. That's probably stupid. But I feel I have made an amazing first impression and I don't wanna mess up.I know that any one girl should not be the point of origin and should not be put on a pedestal that's why I have been going out with multiple girls. And she knows that I am quite popular among girls. I don't wanna appear incongruent.

 

[Casanova Official]

Nice first post... sounds like you've got a plan and are a man of action.

The "guru" I liked the most was Corey Wayne. I didn't see that you had mentioned him. Very good with internal game: becoming comfortable with yourself, and confidence and so forth.

Damn... how long did this take you? I only got about half way through, and that took me a while.. I didn't get much from it other than everyone's experiences are different... which would be huge contradiction to Rollo's books.

I listened to the book around 7-8 times. Listen to the audible version. It's free.
I think the Art of Seduction is more of a book for all sexes. It does not take into account hypergamy and all that stuff. The process of seduction it proposes comes from the strategies used by history's greatest seducers. It's an amazing work and even Rollo quoted from that. But at the same time, I think that reading books that are prescriptions from PUAs would probably help a person advance faster. Once he is comfortable with game, he can then read about which techniques the greatest seducers employed. This would serve as an inspiration and he would be able to come up with creative solutions for his exploits.

Also, I think although Rollo Tomassi's book serve as a great foundation and introduction to Game, it's more like a description. I would at this stage atleast prefer books like Nick Krauser's Daygame Mastery and Infinite which are direct prescriptions. I would iterate what works and slowly as it is internalised, I would improvise and create creative solutions.

Knowing enough to execute on the OODA loop and practicing body language and gesticulations are probably the things that would get me to advancing in game the fastest.

 

[Serenity]

Yeah. I think you are right. I probably should focus more on executing.
There's this girl SMV 9 who is kind of interested in me. I feel a bit afraid to mess it up. Probably that's the reason I am going all out on reading books so that I don't mess up. That's probably stupid. But I feel I have made an amazing first impression and I don't wanna mess up.I know that any one girl should not be the point of origin and should not be put on a pedestal that's why I have been going out with multiple girls. And she knows that I am quite popular among girls. I don't wanna appear incongruent.

Fear itself is what you should fear, it will negatively affect your behavior in the moment. It becomes a self-fulfilling prophecy, you'll probably mess up because you fear messing up. Fear is generally worse than any other mistake when it comes to attraction.

You should expect failure and experiment. There will be other HB9's, but you'll never reach a breakthrough if you're held back by fear. Sacrifices must be made, it will be worth it in the long run and you'll thank yourself later for it.

Confidence isn't so much about knowing exactly what to do as it is about being fearless to try despite believing it could fail.

Say "fvck it" and just do something, anything. You can analyze and learn after, not before and definitely not during interaction.

 

[Ugly bastard]

Hey everyone. This is my first thread in this forum.

I thought I would introduce myself and ask you all Game luminaries for advice regarding learning Game. It's probably been 2 weeks that I found out about the red pill. What do you think is the fastest and most optimised path to learning game? What would be your path if you were to start over? Give me some bottlenecks that you faced while learning game and things to avoid.

For context, I have just started my college. I have never had a girlfriend but I did have an affair when I turned 16. It started perfectly. I was naturally good in studies and looks and AMOGed her boyfriend effortlessly without even trying. But as with everyone else who came searching for the red pill, I too lost frame and made mistakes and realised that there has to be a better way to do this. I did read the Art of Seduction by Robert Greene at that time but I had no idea that there is such a wealth of information specifically for men. I don't claim to be a natural but I do get a LOT of IOIs and AIs from girls. I probably have more female friends than male friends tbh. But, time and again, I have always felt that I make a lot of conversational mistakes. Many mistakes get pardoned because of my looks. But I feel this need within me to be perfect.

In the last 2 weeks I have read a lot of Game theory. I comfortably feel I know the basics. Since I have been doing a lot of research, I would be consolidating a list of materials, my thoughts and what I think my roadmap should look like. I acknowledge that I am new at this so feel free to critic and give me suggestions and correct me if I am wrong.

I listened to the Player's Guide by Rollo Tomassi twice on Audible. In his book, I found mention to some of the game luminaries

• Mystery - (I'm ignoring reading his work for now because almost everything seems to be based on his work)
• Neil Strauss - (I'm ignoring reading his work for now because it seems to me that he was the first person who was very articulate and reading the next gen books are enough to get a rough estimation of what his work was like.)
• Roissey (Heartiste) - I saw his video on how he tricked an entire population into believing he was a celeb. He is really short and not that good looking. That's why I felt that he must be extremely good at game. So I'm reading his book.
• Roosh - Got all 4 of his books for free on kindle. I love the uniqueness of his books. Rather than talking about the game he gives us an analysis of some of the Alphas and their special traits on what made them Alphas and what I can learn from each of them. His other books talk about specific scenarios for picking up girls like on a ship, in hong kong, etc. (Personally, I think analysing and emulating Alphas is the fastest way to learn gesticulations and body language and conversational nuggets. There are 3 Alphas that I am trying to emulate - Damon from Vamp Diaries, Robert Downey Jr, Ryan Reynolds. I would probably write a book on the analysis when I am done internalising it.)
• Thats more or less it. I have also been skimming through the pickup journey of Ryan Stone (his book Fuccfiles where he has outlined several lessons learned from a decade of women) and Nick Krauser (all 4 of his books on Memoir).
• Also been casually skimming through the other books of Nick Krauser where he talks about how he has perfected his Day game, the Frame Praxeology (which is free on kindle) by Rian Stone where he talks about the 4 pillars of having a unshakable frame (Physical, Intellectual, Emotional, Vision), also the books of Troy Francis, particularly the 3 part volume of Fifty Shades of Game where he talks about different fetishes like ****, Swinging, Stripper Clubs.

I don't intend to think about game as an exercise in philosophical speculation. But I feel like reading the diverse works of different PUAs, their experience, their way of thinking and the clarity that came in them after decades of practise is certainly something that would shorten my learning curve and make me aware of things that I could not have known or guessed.

And also, one more thing and this is weird but I had been doing two courses from a male pornstar (Stirling Cooper) on Sexual Dominance and Dirty Talk and i have been binge reading all of his books. He admits in his course that he had been influenced by Papa Tomassi and has applied the red pill concepts to his porn career. So his take is interesting.

While going through this forum and looking at the discussions, there were 2 personalities that caught my eye. Pook and Shark. The archived website of Shark and his book Black Flag are interesting takes on Game. While Rollo Tomassi mostly gives abstractions and descriptions on game tactics, Shark gives direct prescriptions. It's pure gold. The book of Pook and all of Pook's work also had a different angle on Game.

I think that in this forum, the Hall of Fame and the short tactics page are the only things that should be read. If I have something to ask which already has a thread then probably that's the only time I should use the Discussion Forum.

And also, I saw there were some book regarding woman's psychology but I think reading those now would be low utility. I should probably finish and internalise the knowledge from theses legendary PUAs so that the mistakes I make are better.

P.S: If anyone wants any book or course that I have mentioned above, feel free to contact me. We can work something out.

Game simply doesn’t exist, if you don’t pass the looks test with a woman, it’s game over.

And if you have to turn to a P U A/dating roach, it’s a wrap, it’s over for you.

 

[Casanova Official]

Fear itself is what you should fear, it will negatively affect your behavior in the moment. It becomes a self-fulfilling prophecy, you'll probably mess up because you fear messing up. Fear is generally worse than any other mistake when it comes to attraction.

You should expect failure and experiment. There will be other HB9's, but you'll never reach a breakthrough if you're held back by fear. Sacrifices must be made, it will be worth it in the long run and you'll thank yourself later for it.

Confidence isn't so much about knowing exactly what to do as it is about being fearless to try despite believing it could fail.

Say "fvck it" and just do something, anything. You can analyze and learn after, not before and definitely not during interaction.

Loved it, man.
Fvck it. I will do whatever it takes. I will start approaching 5 HB9's+ everyday. The fear of rejection is fvcking with my mind because I have never had the need to ask anyone out. I always got asked out thus never learned to overcome this fear. I will be fearless no matter what.

Thanks for the priceless advice. It's for guys like you who have done it before me that I joined this forum. I will stick to your advice.

 

[Divorced w 3]

If I had to start over I would want to be told that you can drum up a lot of tension and attraction without saying a word, and to be aware more of tone, body language, and emotion and that the words would follow more naturally. When you act, act decisively and don’t sweat outcomes. Good material to read besides Pook is his compilation of Anti-Dump’s machine. I think the phrase ‘let life come to you’ is the perfect motto.

 

[Casanova Official]

If I had to start over I would want to be told that you can drum up a lot of tension and attraction without saying a word, and to be aware more of tone, body language, and emotion and that the words would follow more naturally. When you act, act decisively and don’t sweat outcomes. Good material to read besides Pook is his compilation of Anti-Dump’s machine. I think the phrase ‘let life come to you’ is the perfect motto.

Woah beautiful. How did get better at tone, body language and spontaneous articulation?

 

[RazorRambo24]

Honestly man I can tell by your post that you might not be right for game. To desire women comes innately as man and its good to desire that but to want to be a player and spin plates comes from external motivation, usually from a young age. The **** you're reading at your age makes oyu seem like a boring old white dude who has no idea where the hell to start. Your whole post comes off as a nerd/square wanting to be a player.

The thing that bothers me about alot of people on here is this: They don't have any good reason to want to be players or good with women, because they lack experience thats fundamental to getting into game, yet they want to read books and think they can get there ...

Its like someone whos fat and ugly with huge ears and a huge nose wanting to be a model knowing that it would be an incredible tough journey. What makes sense to me is the guy whos skinny who realized at a young age he can outrun most people wanting to be a professional track runner.

So my question to you is : why? why do you want to get into game? what makes you think you have the fundamentals to be good at picking up women/capitalizing and spinning plates?

 

[We_ArE_VeNOM]

Practice more than you read. That's what I did and I'd do it all over again. The reading material is just for inspiration regarding what to try, your personal experience will tell you everything you need to know about what works for you and what doesn't.

If you don't have a fragile ego incapable of handling failure and you're capable of learning from failure then you'll learn game very quickly.

Get out there and fvck around.

Hall of Fame post right here.

You gotta get out there and start living.

Start doing sh!t.

The most you will ever learn will come from your own experiences.

 

[FinallyAlpha]

Honestly man I can tell by your post that you might not be right for game. To desire women comes innately as man and its good to desire that but to want to be a player and spin plates comes from external motivation, usually from a young age. The **** you're reading at your age makes oyu seem like a boring old white dude who has no idea where the hell to start. Your whole post comes off as a nerd/square wanting to be a player.

The thing that bothers me about alot of people on here is this: They don't have any good reason to want to be players or good with women, because they lack experience thats fundamental to getting into game, yet they want to read books and think they can get there ...

Its like someone whos fat and ugly with huge ears and a huge nose wanting to be a model knowing that it would be an incredible tough journey. What makes sense to me is the guy whos skinny who realized at a young age he can outrun most people wanting to be a professional track runner.

So my question to you is : why? why do you want to get into game? what makes you think you have the fundamentals to be good at picking up women/capitalizing and spinning plates?

Whatever your bona fides in game and seduction, what you have just written here is manifestly horsesh1t. You have gone out of your way to dissuade and put down a man 11 years younger than you, who is clearly enthusiastic and motivated about starting out a journey, bettering himself, learning and exploring.

It's like a kid picks up a basketball and some older dude comes along and tells him he's wasting his time. Toxic sh1t.

OP, please do not allow embittered people who are older than you to dent your enthusiasm for anything. Keep grinding and seek out good, practical advice.

they want to read books and think they can get there ...

But he can. And I really hope he proves you wrong.

 

[Michael Chief]

I began my journey in all this seduction stuff in 2003. I wasted a ton of time with methods that put too much emphasis in demonstrating value, or methods that were full of mental masturbation with pseudoscientific "evolutionary theory." I didn't realize how much that crap was holding me back until I started trying methods that emphasized more sexualization and kino escalation.

Some gurus think that stuff like value are "attraction triggers" that turn the girl on more and more until you can bed her. No, the truth is you just need a baseline level of being socially acceptable like having good hygiene, dressing appropriately, having friends, and being able to hold a conversation like a normal person. When it comes to seducing women after you get all that taken care of, it all boils down to what regular people call "flirting." We in the seduction community break it down into more actionable terminology like sexual state transfer, sexual framing, kino, breaking rapport, push/pull, etc. but too many people get lost in the social value side of things (or worse, some messed up ideologies that not-so-subtley try to justify misogyny) that they turn into weirdos who end up not knowing how to read a sexual vibe.

So, be wary of methods that put so much emphasis on social value and evolutionary theory. If you're already not socially awkward, work more on sexualization and kino escalation. Above all else, let the field be your teacher more than anything you ever read. Less mental masturbation, more action.

Game simply doesn’t exist, if you don’t pass the looks test with a woman, it’s game over.

And if you have to turn to a P U A/dating roach, it’s a wrap, it’s over for you.

Yo who the **** let this incel in here

 

[Duff55]

Honestly man I can tell by your post that you might not be right for game. To desire women comes innately as man and its good to desire that but to want to be a player and spin plates comes from external motivation, usually from a young age. The **** you're reading at your age makes oyu seem like a boring old white dude who has no idea where the hell to start. Your whole post comes off as a nerd/square wanting to be a player.

The thing that bothers me about alot of people on here is this: They don't have any good reason to want to be players or good with women, because they lack experience thats fundamental to getting into game, yet they want to read books and think they can get there ...

Its like someone whos fat and ugly with huge ears and a huge nose wanting to be a model knowing that it would be an incredible tough journey. What makes sense to me is the guy whos skinny who realized at a young age he can outrun most people wanting to be a professional track runner.

So my question to you is : why? why do you want to get into game? what makes you think you have the fundamentals to be good at picking up women/capitalizing and spinning plates?

Why would that bother you? I see no indication of him exclusively wanting to be a player, he even wrote in latter comment that he wants to seduce a girl close to him, as most people here when they started, but you are just insecure.
Good that u are trying to prevent people having control and becoming desirable, since after all it would mean less ***** for you, but move aside, u aint stopping anything really, and enjoy your day, what is now a ordinary day may become very scarce soon, when these unfit nerd guys start taking ur girls away, enjoy it while it lasts before u become a vague memory

 

[NorwegianDJ]

Get out of here while you still can
But do go into the unknown. Again and again.