Crises point. I want to settle but at what cost.

[Pandora]

OP you gotta consider what kind of world you would bring this kid into.

Exactly. I have gotten into a lot of Anti Natalism stuff recently. It makes sense. I just want kids to take care of me when I am old. Ima be very honest. Its kind of selfish lol.

 

[SmoothSmooth]

Kind of. The average man attracts low tier woman because most women are low tier. My SMV is not that low. I have shown my face before and I am good looking ( not the best). I don't make a lot of money but I make more than most of the chicks I date. My mouth piece game is better than 99% of the guys on this site.

The selection in the USA is just really bad. If the selection in the USA was good we would not be on this site. Even above average guys have to settle for bottom of the barrel chicks in America.

Yes I agree if I was a rich guy in his 30's then I would attract better women. Remember though, rich guys in America date single mothers too. You would be surprised. In our head we think that most rich guys are Bruce Wayne. Even Bruce Wayne would have a hard time dating in the West. A prime 20s something that is quality is married by 25. She is atleast engaged. Most girls over 25 that are hot will not make good wives.

a prime 20 year old that is quality would date a top tier 37 year old. The man would need money and status but could crush a 20 year old man if he still looked good. If he had a luxury car; nice pad etc he could have a rotation of prime women.

I would suggest focus on building your smv. There is still time. What do you do for a living? Give it 3 years. Have a plan. Accumulate resources and get in the best shape of your life

Travel, build a good instagram page; take pictures.

get off this site and build some real power in the real world. Alliances with interesting men. Sites like this are for teenagers. Not fully grown men. In my opinion.

 

[Stanley]

Exactly. I have gotten into a lot of Anti Natalism stuff recently. It makes sense. I just want kids to take care of me when I am old. Ima be very honest. Its kind of selfish lol.

It is not

 

[BackInTheGame78]

People make the same fallacy with hunter gatherer tribal units. They say " oh they died at 35". They never read the source material for these claims. They just heard it somewhere and ran with it. The anthropologist factored infant mortality into the age. They did bad social science. The high infant mortality decreased the number for average life span.

The truth is that if you survived infancy you could easily live up to your 60s and 70s. Go online and look at videos of isolated tribes. You can see on camera that there are many people that are of advanced age in the tribal units. Its not just 20 yr olds. There are many people in their 40s and/or 50s atleast.

Historians estimate that between 10-15% of people lived until age 50 or older and that if you lived until 50 you would be considered relatively "old" for that time.

So it happened, but it was still far less frequent than it is today.

 

[Pandora]

a prime 20 year old that is quality would date a top tier 37 year old. The man would need money and status but could crush a 20 year old man if he still looked good. If he had a luxury car; nice pad etc he could have a rotation of prime women.

I would suggest focus on building your smv. There is still time. What do you do for a living? Give it 3 years. Have a plan. Accumulate resources and get in the best shape of your life

Travel, build a good instagram page; take pictures.

get off this site and build some real power in the real world. Alliances with interesting men. Sites like this are for teenagers. Not fully grown men. In my opinion.

Hey man this is good advice. I agree but dont you think its a little theoretical? I dont know anyone who snagged a hot pure and submissive 20 yr old in their 30s. Actually I know 1 guy but he is a very handsome dude and the girl is basically Italian raised who came to America for college I think. It sounds good on paper but it does not exist. I used to live in college housing in my late 20s. Me and my older friends ran through those girls.

Very very few of them were wifey material. The few that are wifey material are not looking at you. They usually come from very conservative close knit communities.

Has 1 person on this board snagged a hot submissive wifey material girl under 25 yrs old? No. This is a myth that we need to give up in the manosphere. If you got one of these unicorns you are lucky. It was probably like this since the beginning of civilization. Good women are just very difficult to find.

Attractive, Young, Agreeable............pick 2 ( i just came up with this lol).

 

[BackInTheGame78]

Exactly. I have gotten into a lot of Anti Natalism stuff recently. It makes sense. I just want kids to take care of me when I am old. Ima be very honest. Its kind of selfish lol.

It might be best if you don't have kids then. They deserve a lot more from their father.

The world ALWAYS has issues that every generation think are "the worst" without having loved through any other generation.

No offense but I think knowing there was at least a 50% chance half your kids would die before they reached 16 would be far worse.

 

[SW15]

I dont know anyone who snagged a hot pure and submissive 20 yr old in their 30s.

Neither have I. Most men in their 30s settle for whatever woman they can get close to their own age. 35-40 years old is supposed to be peak male SMV but most 35-40 year old men are with women 1-3 years younger who are well past their primes. These men are picking between childless carousel riders like the women in the two threads below or single moms.

The Modern Middle Aged Woman: High Notch Count, Big White Collar Career, Lives for Herself

https://www.today.com/life/essay-life/wrong-relationships-future-worth-rcna67037 This is a story of a woman who is in her early 40s now. She's an early Millennial. She claimed to be 40 last year and turning 41 in February according to a post on LinkedIn today. That means she was born in...

www.sosuave.net

37-year-old single influencer sick of waiting for the ‘perfect partner’ enjoys solo honeymoon

An Influencer who was fed up being single decided to take herself on a “solo honeymoon” and vowed to stop depending on men to make her happy. Brittany Allyn revealed that in 2022 she traveled to London and froze her eggs before booking her dream vacation in France and Italy, reports Jam Press...

www.sosuave.net

I don't understand why a man would freak out about not having a kid.

You're 38 bro give up on kids. That ship has sailed.

I haven't been freaked out about it at all. My time for having a kid has likely passed. At a certain point, it doesn't make a lot of sense for a man to have kids, even if he's able to get a much younger girlfriend. Men who have kids in their late 30s/early 40s have to consider how having kids will affect their retirement plans, something that isn't as big of a concern when a man has kids when he's 25-35. Additionally, how healthy will a man be in his 40s and 50s with school aged children? Can he actually keep up with them?

 

[sangheilios]

Wait am I missing something/ why would 37 be late to have kids? You’re attracting low tier women because I’m assuming your smv is low. If you were rich at 37 I can imagine you could date plenty of prime young 20 something year olds

That's not necessarily true.

Contrary to what some of the posters on here believe, when a man starts getting into his mid 30s and up he is going to find that he has limited options. Most women within a realistic dating age range for them, so late twenties and up, are already going to be married or in serious relationships. What is going to be available is essentially women that are complete left overs or single moms. A single mom doesn't necessarily mean she is low quality if she is in this age bracket, she could have been divorced with kids, etc. However, dating single moms and forming relationships with them comes with a unique set of issues, which is not really the topic of this thread.

If your game is to be rich in order to land much younger women this is an option. However, the problem is you'd have very fake relationships with women like this that would honestly require a high degree of maintenance. Also, you'd have to be incredibly wealthy in order to pull this off OR be willing to spend a ton of money. We aren't talking something that is realistic for the vast majority of men, making 200k+ as a nuclear engineer is not going to cut it. We are talking celebrity or pro athlete status wealth, this is so rare it's not even worth discussing.

 

[sangheilios]

Neither have I. Most men in their 30s settle for whatever woman they can get close to their own age. 35-40 years old is supposed to be peak male SMV but most 35-40 year old men are with women 1-3 years younger who are well past their primes. These men are picking between childless carousel riders like the women in the two threads below or single moms.

The Modern Middle Aged Woman: High Notch Count, Big White Collar Career, Lives for Herself

https://www.today.com/life/essay-life/wrong-relationships-future-worth-rcna67037 This is a story of a woman who is in her early 40s now. She's an early Millennial. She claimed to be 40 last year and turning 41 in February according to a post on LinkedIn today. That means she was born in...

www.sosuave.net

37-year-old single influencer sick of waiting for the ‘perfect partner’ enjoys solo honeymoon

An Influencer who was fed up being single decided to take herself on a “solo honeymoon” and vowed to stop depending on men to make her happy. Brittany Allyn revealed that in 2022 she traveled to London and froze her eggs before booking her dream vacation in France and Italy, reports Jam Press...

www.sosuave.net

I haven't been freaked out about it at all. My time for having a kid has likely passed.

Depends, a guy in his early to mid 30s who took care of himself and is in shape could still realistically date a woman that is 25+. I honestly believe that is one of the biggest factors right there and is something that a man can realistically work on. Telling a man to use rich man game is not one of them lol. I think it definitely starts changing though as you get into your mid 30s and closing in on 40. Sure, you could still be in really good shape, the problem is that women that are still within a realistic dating age range for you will NOT be single. Even at 35-40, a guy that is in shape could realistically date a woman that is 27-30. Women is this range have long been locked into a long term relationship. It's not impossible at all and I don't think any man in this age range of 35+ should feel this way, the numbers just aren't on his side.

I think the worst thing for men in this age range is basically just letting themselves go. I've noticed over the years that there are tons of guys at the gym in their late teens up to about 25 or so. However, I've found that fit men at close to 30 and beyond are far more the exception than the norm.

 

[SW15]

Contrary to what some of the posters on here believe, when a man starts getting into his mid 30s and up he is going to find that he has limited options.

I have experienced these feelings since I turned 35.

Even at 35-40, a guy that is in shape could realistically date a woman that is 27-30. Women is this range have long been locked into a long term relationship. It's not impossible at all and I don't think any man in this age range of 35+ should feel this way, the numbers just aren't on his side.

It's not easy to get a 27-30 year old while between 35-40 years old. I only knew one 35-40 year old who got a woman between 27-30, and he got her on the strength of his social circle from living in the same city his whole life and having a good beta provider job. If he were a beta provider without a social network, he would have only gotten a woman close to his own age with some sort of baggage.

Most women within a realistic dating age range for them (mid-30s & up), so late twenties and up, are already going to be married or in serious relationships. What is going to be available is essentially women that are complete left overs or single moms. A single mom doesn't necessarily mean she is low quality if she is in this age bracket, she could have been divorced with kids, etc. However, dating single moms and forming relationships with them comes with a unique set of issues, which is not really the topic of this thread.

If your game is to be rich in order to land much younger women this is an option. However, the problem is you'd have very fake relationships with women like this that would honestly require a high degree of maintenance. Also, you'd have to be incredibly wealthy in order to pull this off OR be willing to spend a ton of money. We aren't talking something that is realistic for the vast majority of men, making 200k+ as a nuclear engineer is not going to cut it. We are talking celebrity or pro athlete status wealth, this is so rare it's not even worth discussing.

Men in their mid-30s and up using swipe apps are typically only going to get mutual matches from complete leftovers close to their own age. They might be charismatic enough to do a little bit better with in-person approaching of strangers, but that's a difficult path. Most men from their mid-30s to mid-40s have social networks of mostly couples, because their male friends are mainly paired off at this point, or they have a newly divorced guy as a friend. In other words, he lacks social circle options.

I think a $200k annual salary with a decent net worth would be enough for rich man game. It would also help having height and hair too. $200k annual salary, 6'0"+, and a full hairline would do well according to @Mike32ct and his "Height, Hair, Money" idea. Even with inflation, most men aren't making $200k. Even a 40 year old man making $130k doesn't see a lot of demand, despite being better than average.

 

[sangheilios]

I have experienced these feelings since I turned 35.



It's not easy to get a 27-30 year old while between 35-40 years old. I only knew one 35-40 year old who got a woman between 27-30, and he got her on the strength of his social circle from living in the same city his whole life and having a good beta provider job. If he were a beta provider without a social network, he would have only gotten a woman close to his own age with some sort of baggage.



Men in their mid-30s and up using swipe apps are typically only going to get mutual matches from complete leftovers close to their own age. They might be charismatic enough to do a little bit better with in-person approaching of strangers, but that's a difficult path. Most men from their mid-30s to mid-40s have social networks of mostly couples, because their male friends are mainly paired off at this point, or they have a newly divorced guy as a friend. In other words, he lacks social circle options.

I think a $200k annual salary with a decent net worth would be enough for rich man game. It would also help having height and hair too. $200k annual salary, 6'0"+, and a full hairline would do well according to @Mike32ct and his "Height, Hair, Money" idea. Even with inflation, most men aren't making $200k. Even a 40 year old man making $130k doesn't see a lot of demand, despite being better than average.

Like I said to the other poster, if your goal was to have a serious long term relationship and children then what the hell are you doing waiting until you are closing in on 40? Not you specifically, but all of these things we are discussing would be of no concern if men just accepted this. It's the same idea of a woman focusing on career for years and than wondering why she is still single AND childless at 40 lol. However, this is much more of a crisis for women than it is for men, very few women would ever truly be happy or comfortable being in this state at such an age. I feel that men it's not so black and white, in fact I get the vibe that most would prefer to live a bachelor's type lifestyle, where you can enjoy time with friends, hobbies, etc. and have some sex here and there. I feel most men only get into relationships to have a regular source of sex and not really for things like companionship, etc.

 

[SW15]

Like I said to the other poster, if your goal was to have a serious long term relationship and children then what the hell are you doing waiting until you are closing in on 40? Not you specifically, but all of these things we are discussing would be of no concern if men just accepted this.

I don't think a man in his late 30s/early 40s can be faulted for this anymore. Not with the Millennial generation now entering their late 30s/early 40s. In general, older Millennials were dealt a bad hand with the late 2000s recession and the early 2020s. It's entirely possible for a guy now to be around 40 and have had some failed LTRs that failed prior to marriage and having kids. It's actually better when relationships fail prior to kids or marriage because the breakup is easier.

It's the same idea of a woman focusing on career for years and than wondering why she is still single AND childless at 40 lol. However, this is much more of a crisis for women than it is for men, very few women would ever truly be happy or comfortable being in this state at such an age.

I feel that men it's not so black and white

Women can dictate their outcomes in the mating market more so than men. So a woman getting to 35-40 and not having kids when she wanted them is a different. With that said, there are women who aren't careerists who do end up unmarried and childless at 33-40 due to some combination of circumstances that were somewhat out of her control. This is rarer, but it does happen.

I get the vibe that most would prefer to live a bachelor's type lifestyle, where you can enjoy time with friends, hobbies, etc. and have some sex here and there. I feel most men only get into relationships to have a regular source of sex and not really for things like companionship, etc.

There are men that want children. I have met some of them in my local area social circle in the past 10+ years. Even among the men who wanted children, they were more relaxed about it than their wives were.

Sex is the primary motivating factor for men to get into relationships because a lot of men would be incel/borderline incel without their relationships. However, I think a lot of men do value the companionship element because they struggle to get enough time from male friends who are often tied down with wives, children, and careers.

 

[pipeman84]

Has 1 person on this board snagged a hot submissive wifey material girl under 25 yrs old? No. This is a myth that we need to give up in the manosphere. If you got one of these unicorns you are lucky. It was probably like this since the beginning of civilization. Good women are just very difficult to find.

Man, you can't look at samples of say 50 people on this forum or in your extended social circle and draw definitive conclusions that this or that is or isn't possible. Even with those tiny samples you don't know 100% what's going on. For instance, there was a user here on SS, Colossus, who found his wife when she was 24-25. Read more about it here: https://www.sosuave.net/forum/threads/retired-reflections-on-marriage-hoes-and-dating.239222/
Zan Perrion met his wife when she was 22 and he was 48 ... they're still together 10yrs later.

IMO, it's a waste of time to concentrate on all this statistical BS, ie you gotta be this exact age, have this exact hair and dyck length and minimum X amount of money to get a quality girl. Real life is much more complex and nuanced than that.

 

[DonJuanjr]

IMO, it's a waste of time to concentrate on all this statistical BS, ie you gotta be this exact age, have this exact hair and dyck length and minimum X amount of money to get a quality girl. Real life is much more complex and nuanced than that.

Tell that to the gammas on here....

 

[EyeBRollin]

Avoid the single mommas bruh. At 38, you can still pull a childless chick 25-35.

 

[Solomon]

OP these situations are all RED flags, yikes

 

[sangheilios]

Avoid the single mommas bruh. At 38, you can still pull a childless chick 25-35.

I totally agree and it is possible. This is what I was getting at with my other posts on this thread. When a man gets past a certain age range his realistic dating pool will become far more limited and mostly be made up of single moms, leftovers, etc. I don't care what any man says, unless you are incredibly wealthy, have celebrity status or exceptionally attractive this is the reality you will be faced with. It's totally possible to land much younger women, it's just the numbers are not in your favor and it's a much more difficult prospect than if you were a decade younger. Best advice for men in their 30s is to stay in shape. I'm only 33 and I've found what is available is quite limited, I can't even imagine what it would be like if I was closing in on 40 or have already surpassed it.

 

[EyeBRollin]

I totally agree and it is possible. This is what I was getting at with my other posts on this thread. When a man gets past a certain age range his realistic dating pool will become far more limited and mostly be made up of single moms, leftovers, etc. I don't care what any man says, unless you are incredibly wealthy, have celebrity status or exceptionally attractive this is the reality you will be faced with.

It’s not that rare. I have 3 buddies in their 40s, all married to women in their 30s. None of them are “top tier” men (they aren’t bums either).

 

[itouchyou]

You're 38 bro give up on kids. That ship has sailed.

Can't tell if this post is a joke. I guess if you're speaking about dating for the average 38 year old who has a dad bod, makes average money, is balding, single, and has no game.. ok. But if he's got a spouse, why would it be bad to have kids at that age?

Aristotle said it 2300 years ago ... ideal age for a man to get married is when he's about 37 with a woman who's about 18. Nowadays you see guys like Arnold, Stallone, Statham who became fathers at 40+. IMO that makes the most sense, logically and evolutionary speaking.

To me, there are two extremes when it comes to kids.

1) Have them young, at say 25 and another at 28. By the time you're 46, your kids will be gone to college and that's it, empty nest. Not only that, but you've spent your most youthful years child raising, and those years are spent most likely struggling to make ends meet, with jobs that make it difficult to spend time with your kids. What else is left for your life after 46 when your kids are gone? Most couples struggle to find things to do with their time.

2) Have them late, say at 35 and 38. When you're 56, your kids will be gone. If you were smart about your finances, you'd be retired. You'll have built up to a great career and have a nest egg by 35, so money for raising your kids will never be a problem. Because you've risen to a higher level in your career, your workload will be less, affording you more time to spend with your kids. Since you had your kids at your prime, you will have enjoyed your youth to the fullest.

The only advantage to having kids young is that you might be in better shape to spend time with your grandkids, if that matters a lot to you. Other than that, I see no upside.

Of course I am in the second category so maybe there is confirmation bias. But from a logical perspective, to me it makes sense even if I was young.

Depends, a guy in his early to mid 30s who took care of himself and is in shape could still realistically date a woman that is 25+. I honestly believe that is one of the biggest factors right there and is something that a man can realistically work on. Telling a man to use rich man game is not one of them lol. I think it definitely starts changing though as you get into your mid 30s and closing in on 40. Sure, you could still be in really good shape, the problem is that women that are still within a realistic dating age range for you will NOT be single. Even at 35-40, a guy that is in shape could realistically date a woman that is 27-30. Women is this range have long been locked into a long term relationship. It's not impossible at all and I don't think any man in this age range of 35+ should feel this way, the numbers just aren't on his side.

I think the worst thing for men in this age range is basically just letting themselves go. I've noticed over the years that there are tons of guys at the gym in their late teens up to about 25 or so. However, I've found that fit men at close to 30 and beyond are far more the exception than the norm.

The key for mid 30s men is to be vigilant with their looks and max out in their career. That's a mans' peak, IMO.

I have experienced these feelings since I turned 35.

It's not easy to get a 27-30 year old while between 35-40 years old. I only knew one 35-40 year old who got a woman between 27-30, and he got her on the strength of his social circle from living in the same city his whole life and having a good beta provider job. If he were a beta provider without a social network, he would have only gotten a woman close to his own age with some sort of baggage.

Men in their mid-30s and up using swipe apps are typically only going to get mutual matches from complete leftovers close to their own age. They might be charismatic enough to do a little bit better with in-person approaching of strangers, but that's a difficult path. Most men from their mid-30s to mid-40s have social networks of mostly couples, because their male friends are mainly paired off at this point, or they have a newly divorced guy as a friend. In other words, he lacks social circle options.

I think a $200k annual salary with a decent net worth would be enough for rich man game. It would also help having height and hair too. $200k annual salary, 6'0"+, and a full hairline would do well according to @Mike32ct and his "Height, Hair, Money" idea. Even with inflation, most men aren't making $200k. Even a 40 year old man making $130k doesn't see a lot of demand, despite being better than average.

Yes, apps are harder in mid 30s. Women have filters because realistically, the stereotype is true that the vast vast majority of men let themselves go in their 30s, not to mention their mid to late 30s. Men who don't fit the mold at that age are unicorns.



I will end the post with this - all the best looking male actors (Don Draper in Mad Men, Brad Pitt in Fight Club, Christian Bale in Dark Knight, Ryan Reynolds in Deadpool, etc) were all in their mid to late 30s. Tell me that without their fame, a woman would reject them if they approached her and she found out their age. I find it hard to believe. I guess the equation is the older you are, the more you must have to offer in order to date younger women.

 

[pipeman84]

Aristotle said it 2300 years ago ... ideal age for a man to get married is when he's about 37 with a woman who's about 18. Nowadays you see guys like Arnold, Stallone, Statham who became fathers at 40+. IMO that makes the most sense, logically and evolutionary speaking.

I'll add Charles Bronson to this list. I recently came across this photo, he's holding his daughter Zuleika, he must've been around 53-54yrs old here: