Men Want Marriage More Than Women

[BadBoy89]

It’s an older article but study finds men are cuddled in bed at home, counting down the days they have left to find a significant other.

Men Want Marriage More Than Women, Study Finds

On Valentine's Day, you can usually cue the stereotypical image of the poor single girl. But it may be men that are actually cuddled in bed at home, counting down the days they have left to find a significant other.

www.huffpost.com

As men are beginning to take more of a female role in relationships, wanting to settle down early, have children and start a life with another human being, it seems that more women are quick to abandon society's stereotype.

Article is 12 years old so it’s probably 12 times worse now.

Thoughts?

 

[pipeman84]

OK, so first off, the author is a masculine woman judging by her photo and this quote at the end of the article:

While men are now looking for stability and commitment, women are retreating towards self-satisfaction and independence. In my opinion, I'll be counting how many numbers are in my salary, and definitely not how many children I have (which in my mind now, is none). So for me, while a career may not keep me warm at night, I know it can buy me a fancy comforter that will.

She'll probably end up freezing her eggs and a cat lady.

The study is not actually a study but a survey of 5.000 people on Match.com, which means the sample is very biased, meaning the conclusions should be taken with a big grain of salt. Furthermore, we don't know how the questions were worded or what the actual percentages were (ie men want marriage more than women ... what does that look like ... 40% vs 38% which is statistical noise or 40% vs 10% which is quite a gap that warrants further investigation).

 

[RazorRambo24]

Don't believe everything you read. A vast majority of stuff written for websites these days is bull.sht.

Deeper dive into this: Apparently the author took this from a source from Time Magazine that found that men in th weirdest age range of under 24 and over 59 wanted marriage at the same rate as women.. Discluding the men age 25-to 58 who dont want marriage nearly as much as men.. Then she twisted it to say "men want more marriage". The same article she quoted said "at the same time, more women overall want marriage than men" .. Ah, Ya think?

and surprise surprise, neither of these articles cited where these "stats" were taken from.

Thisis why you can't read bull.sht on te internet and take it seriously.

 

[SW15]

There are surpluses of single men as compared to single women. Men are more likely to be lacking regular sex than women.

Before I go on, it's worth noting that married life in the last 10-15 years contains less sex than it did in the 1980s for couples under the age of 60.

When a man is lacking regular sex, the idea is even a limited sex marriage (think 1-2 times per month) starts to look good compared to long term incel status or Average Frustrated Chump status of multiple months to even 1 year without sex between extended relationships.

Since men are thirstier than ever and thirstier than they were in 2011 when the article was published, there are at least some men out there who were more desiring of marriages or committed relationships than women solely for the access to at least semi-regular sex. It's unknown how statistically meaningful this conclusion is.

Most men are beta males. Beta males have become less useful to women since women have been able to get degrees and white collar jobs. A lot of women can get their bachelor's degree in a liberal arts or business discipline, get some business or higher level government job, and make enough money to support themselves with a decent lifestyle. If they have an advanced degree, they can buy an even better lifestyle. On an individual level, these women I've described don't need a beta provider male. On a collective level, they still need men, but they don't often acknowledge it.

Women with bachelor's degrees + and white collar jobs can also enjoy massive abundance in their dating lives. They can get free dinners and/or free drinks from men (not necessarily simps) by using swipe apps or being active on social media and replying to DMs. This takes nearly zero effort. Women will dismiss most of these men after 1-2 dates, as most swipe apps interactions are "1-2 dates, no sex, no extended relationship". While enjoying freebies on early stages with abundance, women can screen for the highest value men, have sex with them, and go on. The highest value men don't commit to most of these women because they have no incentive to do so. Women end up ignoring and dismissing most of the betas who would commit to them while riding the penis carousel for somewhere between 10-20 years in a lot of cases.

Education, employment, and mating abundance allow women to behave like this.

 

[SW15]

The study is not actually a study but a survey of 5.000 people on Match.com, which means the sample is very biased, meaning the conclusions should be taken with a big grain of salt. Furthermore, we don't know how the questions were worded or what the actual percentages were (ie men want marriage more than women ... what does that look like ... 40% vs 38% which is statistical noise or 40% vs 10% which is quite a gap that warrants further investigation).

" A recent Match.com survey, which interviewed 5,200 people ages 21 to over 65 who were neither married, engaged or in a committed relationship, concluded that men were more likely than women to fall in love at first sight, to want to start a family, and to start a relationship with someone of a different religion or ethnicity than their own. So, the myth that men suffer from a severe case of commitment-phobia may be healed by the fact that women are now yearning for self-sufficiency. "

Your assessment of the survey results is mostly accurate.

While the sample size is large, the characteristics of the sample pool are biased. If someone wants to conclude men are more likely to want to be married, it's probably a good idea to ask already married people between ages 21-65 about being married. That will change the outcomes.

Even within the flawed sample, there would be issues. Back in 2010-11, Match would have overindexed on beta males relative to the general public. In 2010-11, men with more alpha characteristics were doing approaches in bars/daygame and not using Match.com or trying to pick up promiscuous women on OkCupid and Plenty of Fish (rough precursors to Tinder and Bumble). Even then, Match was a website that was geared more towards serious relationships than OkCupid or Plenty of Fish. While website dating was plenty popular by 2010-11, the peak of website dating wasn't what swipe apps would later become. A smaller percentage of singles used website dating then compared to swipe app users merely 5 years later (2015-16).

I agree that specific question wording and percentage differentials are relevant, even with the sample characteristics.

Don't believe everything you read. A vast majority of stuff written for websites these days is bull.sht.

Deeper dive into this: Apparently the author took this from a source from Time Magazine that found that men in th weirdest age range of under 24 and over 59 wanted marriage at the same rate as women.. Discluding the men age 25-to 58 who dont want marriage nearly as much as men.. Then she twisted it to say "men want more marriage". The same article she quoted said "at the same time, more women overall want marriage than men" .. Ah, Ya think?

and surprise surprise, neither of these articles cited where these "stats" were taken from.

Thisis why you can't read bull.sht on te internet and take it seriously.

Interesting. You did some good work there with the deeper dive. Even with the flawed sample of beta males 25-58 years old, men still didn't want marriage as much.

 

[BackInTheGame78]

Newer research says men are eschewing marriage at an alarmingly high rate these days and it is only getting worse with the younger generations.

Finally getting smarter even as they are getting more beta but it may not be for the reason people think.

It doesn't say the reason why...based on a huge portion of men being single and very high rates of men who don't have sex I'd venture to guess it's because these guys have no prospects to marry rather than them not wanting to get married

 

[SW15]

Newer research says men are eschewing marriage at an alarmingly high rate these days and it is only getting worse with the younger generations.

Finally getting smarter even as they are getting more beta but it may not be for the reason people think.

It doesn't say the reason why...based on a huge portion of men being single and very high rates of men who don't have sex I'd venture to guess it's because these guys have no prospects to marry rather than them not wanting to get married

I'm not sure men are eschewing marriage.

More women are rejecting a larger percentage of men. It could look like these men are eschewing marriage but they are not. The women don't want them. This is why MGTOW is useless. Most men who claim to be MGTOW are unwanted by women anyway. The typical female does not care when a MGTOW leaves the market. You're right that a lot of men have no prospects to marry.

 

[BackInTheGame78]

I'm not sure men are eschewing marriage.

More women are rejecting a larger percentage of men. It could look like these men are eschewing marriage but they are not. The women don't want them. This is why MGTOW is useless. Most men who claim to be MGTOW are unwanted by women anyway. The typical female does not care when a MGTOW leaves the market. You're right that a lot of men have no prospects to marry.

Honestly most men are rejecting themselves because they don't have the stomach to actually to get rejected enough to be successful.

They message a few women, if it doesn't work they give up. They go on a date, they get ghosted or rejected or LBJF'd and it wrecks them for a month.

They are unwilling to go through enough volume to be successful and simply giving up before they have any real chance of success.

 

[BackInTheGame78]

Its the huffingting post and its wrong. A great swath of men dont want marriage.
Women inately want to lock a guy down. Its in their loins and DNA.
The huffington post type artichles take out nature and evolutionary biology

There is an ever increasing amount of men that have nobody to lock down even if they wanted to.

 

[SW15]

Honestly most men are rejecting themselves because they don't have the stomach to actually to get rejected enough to be successful.

They message a few women, if it doesn't work they give up. They go on a date, they get ghosted or rejected or LBJF'd and it wrecks them for a month.

They are unwilling to go through enough volume to be successful and simply giving up before they have any real chance of success.

Rejection is an interesting topic.

How much rejection is healthy? Too much rejection is not healthy. There is a psychological damage component that comes with too much rejection. Some male rejection is due to the man using flawed strategies and/or tactics. This isn't a numbers game when a man is doing the wrong things.

When a man experiences enough rejection, he's going to have his self-esteem ruined. He's going to perceive that the female market is telling him that he's worthless and a pile of poop.

The swipe apps are a tough environment for a lot of the men who use them. Less than 1% of most men's right swipes result in a match. That's a tough pill to swallow. After that, a few of the dates that get arranged fail, usually the "one date, no sex, no second date" variety. Plenty of matches ghost prior to the first date. All of those things hurt men emotionally.

In-person approaching isn't a much better experience for most men. Most men go to bars, get some drinks in them, do approaches, and end up going home empty handed, pissed off, and at least semi-intoxicated. That's not a pleasant experience. Daygame can be a similar experience. Plenty of men doing daygame have done 2 hour sessions in a mall or outdoors on a weekend afternoon and end up having nothing to do show for their efforts. That doesn't feel good. Plenty of men are getting ignored on the general gym floor, mainly by women wearing earbuds. Men can experience a solution to the earbud problem on the general gym floor by going to fitness classes at their gym or class-based studios, such as SoulCycle or Title Boxing. Despite good ratios and no earbuds in classes, women are not particularly social in fitness classes, and it can be a challenge to get dates there. Some men will even participate in co-ed sports leagues to attempt to bolster their romantic lives and it doesn't often work out there either. Not getting dates from any of these gym/fitness endeavor in-person approaches will also affect a man emotionally.

There isn't a simple answer to any of this.

 

[BackInTheGame78]

Rejection is an interesting topic.

How much rejection is healthy? Too much rejection is not healthy. There is a psychological damage component that comes with too much rejection. Some male rejection is due to the man using flawed strategies and/or tactics. This isn't a numbers game when a man is doing the wrong things.

When a man experiences enough rejection, he's going to have his self-esteem ruined. He's going to perceive that the female market is telling him that he's worthless and a pile of poop.

The swipe apps are a tough environment for a lot of the men who use them. Less than 1% of most men's right swipes result in a match. That's a tough pill to swallow. After that, a few of the dates that get arranged fail, usually the "one date, no sex, no second date" variety. Plenty of matches ghost prior to the first date. All of those things hurt men emotionally.

In-person approaching isn't a much better experience for most men. Most men go to bars, get some drinks in them, do approaches, and end up going home empty handed, pissed off, and at least semi-intoxicated. That's not a pleasant experience. Daygame can be a similar experience. Plenty of men doing daygame have done 2 hour sessions in a mall or outdoors on a weekend afternoon and end up having nothing to do show for their efforts. That doesn't feel good. Plenty of men are getting ignored on the general gym floor, mainly by women wearing earbuds. Men can experience a solution to the earbud problem on the general gym floor by going to fitness classes at their gym or class-based studios, such as SoulCycle or Title Boxing. Despite good ratios and no earbuds in classes, women are not particularly social in fitness classes, and it can be a challenge to get dates there. Some men will even participate in co-ed sports leagues to attempt to bolster their romantic lives and it doesn't often work out there either. Not getting dates from any of these gym/fitness endeavor in-person approaches will also affect a man emotionally.

There isn't a simple answer to any of this.

Most people misunderstand what rejection actually is.

They take it personally.

It's not personal. It's simply immediate feedback that what you did with that particular person did not work the way you wanted it to.

This is fantastic feedback if you use it properly because you can try other things on the next date and then see if that helps. It's a process of trial and error where you keep what works and throw out what doesn't. Refine this enough and you will have a lot of what works and not a lot of what doesn't over the course of enough attempts. How quickly this happens depends on many factors including how willing a person is to mix things up, how good they are at adjusting and how well they learn to see patterns that happen when you date enough.

The process repeats over and over again and if you are using that feedback properly, you will begin to improve and see patterns of behavior that you can use to your advantage.

The problem is, most guys never give themselves a chance to get to that stage. It would be like starting to lift weights and because you couldn't bench press 315 lbs a week after you started like you saw a guy who has been training for 3-4 years you get discouraged and give up. The reason you weren't able to bench that weight wasn't because you were incapable of doing it necessarily, it was because you never took the time to build a foundation that would lead you to be able to build on top of it and continue improving until you were able to reach that goal. And even if you never were able to achieve that weight, you would have achieved a much greater weight than what you were capable of in week one if kept at it. Dating and success with women is no different than anything else in life.

To me, it makes no sense. Rejection is a chance for improving yourself because what you did didn't work. However, many people refuse to accept this and won't take responsibility for it and will blame the other person to save their ego. "It wasn't my fault, I did things right, it was their fault for not liking it." There is no possibility for growth with a mindset like this and as such they will continue to do the same things over and over again and continue to get the same results which isn't surprising.

Thomas Edison when asked what it felt like to fail more than 10,000 times while trying to create the incandescent light bulb answered "My dear boy, I did not fail 10,000 times, I simply found 10,000 ways that didn't work. But I only needed to find one way that did work."

If are unwilling to fail, and fail a lot at anything in life you will never truly succeed at it either. Unwillingness to accept this is what keeps people from succeeding more than anything.

 

[Hamurabimbi]

I have found almost all women want a relationship & marriage.

 

[BadBoy89]

The problem is, most guys never give themselves a chance to get to that stage. It would be like starting to lift weights and because you couldn't bench press 315 lbs a week after you started like you saw a guy who has been training for 3-4 years you get discouraged and give up. The reason you weren't able to bench that weight wasn't because you were incapable of doing it necessarily, it was because you never took the time to build a foundation that would lead you to be able to build on top of it and continue improving until you were able to reach that goal. And even if you never were able to achieve that weight, you would have achieved a much greater weight than what you were capable of in week one if kept at it. Dating and success with women is no different than anything else in life.

Good points for life and women in theory, but it’s not reality.

The “foundation” is great for life. You work at something, you study it, you practice, you do reps, and then it’s comes second nature It’s how men get rich, get ripped, build an empire, they become great at their “craft”

This does not work with women. Why? Because women respond to a man’s genetics and are not virgins. The sleep with alphas and make rules for betas. Women don’t care about the man’s “hard work”, they just want to get the spoils.

Now a man should improve for himself and well-being, but to tell a man “go to the gym, make money, use a moisturizer, dress well, be outgoing, be charming, get a haircut, look good and you will get a 33 year old ok looking non virgin who has slept with 20 guys who will make you wait months for sex.” Yeah, that’s HARD sell.

To me, it makes no sense. Rejection is a chance for improving yourself because what you did didn't work. However, many people refuse to accept this and won't take responsibility for it and will blame the other person to save their ego. "It wasn't my fault, I did things right, it was their fault for not liking it." There is no possibility for growth with a mindset like this and as such they will continue to do the same things over and over again and continue to get the same results which isn't surprising.

Thomas Edison when asked what it felt like to fail more than 10,000 times while trying to create the incandescent light bulb answered "My dear boy, I did not fail 10,000 times, I simply found 10,000 ways that didn't work. But I only needed to find one way that did work."

If are unwilling to fail, and fail a lot at anything in life you will never truly succeed at it either. Unwillingness to accept this is what keeps people from succeeding more than anything.

When women come into the picture, it’s about “emotions” and “looks”, it’s not about science or physics the way Edison did things.

A 39 year old childless man gets stood up for a business meeting, he upset for maybe 1 hour, shrugs it off, goes a beer with his buddies.

Same 39 year old childless man get stood up by a 28 year decent looking fertile girl. You think he just shrugs that off?

 

[BackInTheGame78]

Good points for life and women in theory, but it’s not reality.

The “foundation” is great for life. You work at something, you study it, you practice, you do reps, and then it’s comes second nature It’s how men get rich, get ripped, build an empire, they become great at their “craft”

This does not work with women. Why? Because women respond to a man’s genetics and are not virgins. The sleep with alphas and make rules for betas. Women don’t care about the man’s “hard work”, they just want to get the spoils.

Now a man should improve for himself and well-being, but to tell a man “go to the gym, make money, use a moisturizer, dress well, be outgoing, be charming, get a haircut, look good and you will get a 33 year old ok looking non virgin who has slept with 20 guys who will make you wait months for sex.” Yeah, that’s HARD sell.



When women come into the picture, it’s about “emotions” and “looks”, it’s not about science or physics the way Edison did things.

A 39 year old childless man gets stood up for a business meeting, he upset for maybe 1 hour, shrugs it off, goes a beer with his buddies.

Same 39 year old childless man get stood up by a 28 year decent looking fertile girl. You think he just shrugs that off?

That's nonsense. You can improve with women just like with anything else in life. Yes, you may not be able to CONSITENTLY get hot women if you aren't good looking, etc, but you can still improve from where you are currently at and likely significantly when it's all said and done.

To suggest otherwise is ludicrous. That's literally what game is...mixing in things you can improve and control with what you can't. Are you trying to claim a guy with no game whatsoever who goes on enough dates and becomes comfortable with talking to women and learns game and implements it will not improve his ability to obtain women, including the attractiveness of the women? If so, there really is nothing to discuss because you don't live in the same reality I do.

 

[BackInTheGame78]

Thats not my fcking problem. Biology doesnt change because of some group of guys not being able to deal with their dik problems. Not hard to get...

Agreed. It's not hard, most guys aren't willing to put the work in.

 

[Stanley]

Anecdotal, but most the guys I know in their 20s have zero interest in marriage aside from some very relationship focused types. Most either want nothing or want to hold off until they're more financially secure among other things. Inversely every girl I know who is beyond her mid 20s in clamoring for marriage material as expected

 

[BadBoy89]

Are you trying to claim a guy with no game whatsoever who goes on enough dates and becomes comfortable with talking to women and learns game and implements it will not improve his ability to obtain women, including the attractiveness of the women?

Maybe. Personally I’ve learned how to act with women from tv shows than actual dating.

All I’m saying is the effort the man puts in is not worth the payoff for a non virgin woman. Others may disagree.

 

[BMX]

No. Wall-hitters have opened me with lines such as "I am 35-years-old!" as of recent. They are just now realizing the scam they fell for, and I simply know enough to sidestep that sh!t. House pets aren't relationship material either.

 

[SW15]

House pets aren't relationship material either.

There has been no generation more pet crazed in USA history than the Millennial generation, which is the current generation at ages 35-40 now.

Wall-hitters have opened me with lines such as "I am 35-years-old!" as of recent. They are just now realizing the scam they fell for, and I simply know enough to sidestep that sh!t. .

Mostly every single one of those 35 year old women could find commitment if they weren't overly fussy. Female abundance and female fussiness is the problem.

 

[Epicwinguy]

I'm not the most successful playa by any stretch, but even I don't want to settle down or have kids. I don't understand why guys on here are so in love with the idea.