What happened here?

[Duff55]

I have to say after reading many old articles here and consuming lot of content from people who used to post here before,i was pretty happy that i didnt have to use wayback machine here and that this site is still alive,but why is it so different?
I see people mentioning their looks every thread(ofc u should look best u can and not be in a bad shape),in accordance to who they should or shouldnt go for and etc.
It's like the whole idea has changed from You are the prize to am i genetically determined to be able to even try to game this girl, which is very self defeating and humbly from where it started and what was premise on this site i suppose way back,again i didn't use this site before so maybe this was always the case,but if for one place i hoped to not see people obsessing over their looks and things they cant change,i hoped it would be here

 

[The Duke]

I'd agree with everything @LARaiders85 said. I'd also add that todays crop of men care more about their looks than previous generations. 15+ years ago, men didn't get facials or manicures. You would have been considered a pu$$y if you did.

 

[Duff55]

I'd agree with everything @LARaiders85 said. I'd also add that todays crop of men care more about their looks than previous generations. 15+ years ago, men didn't get facials or manicures. You would have been considered a pu$$y if you did.

Times have changed and the game has changed. Social media and online dating are purely visual. In addition, the game has become more competitive, which means your superficial traits need to be more developed to compete.

when I first came here a decade ago, all I really had to do was be confident enough to say yes to the women that were already interested. That was basically what the advice here was: be confident, and take action. Not so today.

Yeah I see that being the case totally,but what I learned here and many people in the past,is to develop a right mentality,to flip the script and become a better man,no need for me to be telling u if u understood what I was talking about,but now it is like inner game is being less and less talked about,which is the essence of the game, and u can only improve visuals as much, so in this era of higher competition it is much more important to develop inner game and healthy mindset, which I don't really see being a case around here, and if u are gonna try to outcompete in superficial traits which seem to be more focused on right now, we just know many people will be out of it pretty fast, and i really do not think they are that important as they are emphasized, still I am from Balkan so maybe it could be here like it used to be in America 10-15 years ago, online dating is still pretty niche thing, still what I wanted to say mostly is a lot of people here nowadays are missing the core foundations on which this site is based on and it with OG's being less and less active this is site is shifting to a different direction.

 

[jaymbrs]

Times have changed and the game has changed. Social media and online dating are purely visual. In addition, the game has become more competitive, which means your superficial traits need to be more developed to compete.

when I first came here a decade ago, all I really had to do was be confident enough to say yes to the women that were already interested. That was basically what the advice here was: be confident, and take action. Not so today.

Couldn’t have put it any better. And honestly the change in the game is what drove me here. Before, getting women was second nature. Times were good. I used to scoff at the idea of OLD. Then I became baffled when things did a 180 when I hadn’t changed much at all. Suddenly I opened an account on match.com lol - pathetic.

 

[BackInTheGame78]

Easier to complain how hard it is so you don't do anything than to put any time or effort into yourself.

 

[Stanley]

I rarely see anyone give excess attention to looks on this board.

Most guys here understand its inherent pull in the marketplace, but I've yet to hear anyone go at length about it aside from the occasional blackpill posters here. In today's dating market in regards to OLD looks are paramount, everyone knows this. There has to be a degree of adaptability to the marketplace. That said if I guy is asking for advice in the health and wellness section about grooming or fitness I see that as a good thing, not bad.

It's like the whole idea has changed from You are the prize to am i genetically determined to be able to even try to game this girl, which is very self defeating and humbly from where it started and what was premise on this site i suppose way back,again i didn't use this site before so maybe this was always the case,but if for one place i hoped to not see people obsessing over their looks and things they cant change,i hoped it would be here

I seriously have not seen anyone here post obsessing over their looks at all.

Nearly every thread is about interactions with women, self improvement, advice and game. Many posters still advocate for men to value themselves more and actually be the 'prize'. you cannot be the prize unless you have something to offer in looks, money, status, talent, personality and so on. Looks is arguably the easy thing to cap out on. Sure, you're not going morph your physiology and become a greek god suddenly, but you can still hit the gym, get fit, dress well and groom yourself and elevate easily with a little dedication. Those that dwell on their looks and genetic potential are the one's perpetuating the victim mindset and finding excuses to justify their lack of success with women.

The majority of meaningful and insightful posts here are almost always in relation to inner game. Ignore the guys who lack accountability and don't put in the concerted effort to level up.

 

[Gamisch]

I have to say after reading many old articles here and consuming lot of content from people who used to post here before,i was pretty happy that i didnt have to use wayback machine here and that this site is still alive,but why is it so different?
I see people mentioning their looks every thread(ofc u should look best u can and not be in a bad shape),in accordance to who they should or shouldnt go for and etc.
It's like the whole idea has changed from You are the prize to am i genetically determined to be able to even try to game this girl, which is very self defeating and humbly from where it started and what was premise on this site i suppose way back,again i didn't use this site before so maybe this was always the case,but if for one place i hoped to not see people obsessing over their looks and things they cant change,i hoped it would be here

I agree that older posts had more depth to them, but i dont think sosuave is to blame.

Most members from back then are now perhaps 60+. They left many ,many nuggets but apparently modern men don't feel the urgency to study game anymore. So they also have nothing of substance to add to the conversation. Hence the 63% of men who didn't had sex last year...

OLD is been around for approximately ten years, and the first 2,3 years the playfield seemed fair to both genders. Then it all took a dramatic twist, and LMS became more and more important to even get a shot at a date. Naturally, a lotta men lack the foundations so they sought after advice hoping their results will improve.

So its a combination of volume of members, and a different era . Real DJ,S are a dying breed, ask women if you don't believe me

 

[characternote]

Interesting post.
I'd answer it a slightly different way.

I know where you are coming from as I remember when the whole community was very different and the kind of answers you'd get to questions were very different to what you'd get now.

If someone on an PUA forum from 2008 was like 'There's this stunning 18 year old who moved in near me. How do I get her? I'm 50. I'm overweight and bald and very short, so i'm not sure if she'd be interested' the replies he would get would be like 'Don't worry about age and height etc. Girls only care about game. You need to open with neg to take her down a peg and then throw in some DHV stuff to show that you are a leader of men. She's now very attracted. Once she starts chasing you, you can qualify her and ask her what she has other than her looks and then suggest a date'

If the same question was asked now, it would be like 'Dude. You have like a 1 in a billion chance if she's a 10/10 teenager and you're a kind of ugly older dude. All you can do is shoot your shot. Just say 'hi' and ask her out. It's a numbers game, afterall. You can't make her attracted!'

Now, it might sound like i'm sh1tting on the modern community, but in all honestly, I think people have basically woke up! 'Game' as it was marketed in the old days was simply built on some big lies. And it was easier to fool people when we didn't have things like youtube even! (not to mention how the smartphone/tinder etc really opened up peoples eyes!)

Once all of this stuff required lots of proof of concept and infields came along and the community began to scrutinize way harder (such as demanding live infield streams and not cherry picked infields) it's like everyone kind of realised that even the 'best' pickup dudes aren't hypnotising girls into bed! It's not possible. The best PUA's are playing a numbers game of approaching girls and seeing who's into them (which, lets be honest, is 'mostly' decided by her within about 2 seconds. E.g 'your looks'). If this wasn't the case, there'd be millions of infields of ugly guys approaching girls who tell them they are not interested/ignore him/whatever, and then he 'turns the ship around' with his pushpull and confident body language and bangs her. I've seen just about every infield in existance, believe it or not. And i'm sure you can guess how often what I just described happens. Or anything even close too it. Yes. Never lol

I do think 'inner game' is still pushed though, which is good. And I don't think sosuave or even teh community is extremely blackpilled to the point everyone is crying about not being super handsome. But at the same time, I think most people are just more realistic nowadays about the very real limits of game. Even the coaches themselves in fact have gravitated towards this idea of get as high value as you can with looking your very best etc, and then hit on girls in more or less any way you want as long as it's not completely retarded'. The days of worrying about how and when to qualify her or what neg to use or opening style etc have largely become redundant. It just doesn't matter. The game is played on the girls who are already into you!! (too paraphrase mark manson)

 

[Gamisch]

Interesting post.
I'd answer it a slightly different way.

I know where you are coming from as I remember when the whole community was very different and the kind of answers you'd get to questions were very different to what you'd get now.

If someone on an PUA forum from 2008 was like 'There's this stunning 18 year old who moved in near me. How do I get her? I'm 50. I'm overweight and bald and very short, so i'm not sure if she'd be interested' the replies he would get would be like 'Don't worry about age and height etc. Girls only care about game. You need to open with neg to take her down a peg and then throw in some DHV stuff to show that you are a leader of men. She's now very attracted. Once she starts chasing you, you can qualify her and ask her what she has other than her looks and then suggest a date'

If the same question was asked now, it would be like 'Dude. You have like a 1 in a billion chance if she's a 10/10 teenager and you're a kind of ugly older dude. All you can do is shoot your shot. Just say 'hi' and ask her out. It's a numbers game, afterall. You can't make her attracted!'

Now, it might sound like i'm sh1tting on the modern community, but in all honestly, I think people have basically woke up! 'Game' as it was marketed in the old days was simply built on some big lies. And it was easier to fool people when we didn't have things like youtube even! (not to mention how the smartphone/tinder etc really opened up peoples eyes!)

Once all of this stuff required lots of proof of concept and infields came along and the community began to scrutinize way harder (such as demanding live infield streams and not cherry picked infields) it's like everyone kind of realised that even the 'best' pickup dudes aren't hypnotising girls into bed! It's not possible. The best PUA's are playing a numbers game of approaching girls and seeing who's into them (which, lets be honest, is 'mostly' decided by her within about 2 seconds. E.g 'your looks'). If this wasn't the case, there'd be millions of infields of ugly guys approaching girls who tell them they are not interested/ignore him/whatever, and then he 'turns the ship around' with his pushpull and confident body language and bangs her. I've seen just about every infield in existance, believe it or not. And i'm sure you can guess how often what I just described happens. Or anything even close too it. Yes. Never lol

I do think 'inner game' is still pushed though, which is good. And I don't think sosuave or even teh community is extremely blackpilled to the point everyone is crying about not being super handsome. But at the same time, I think most people are just more realistic nowadays about the very real limits of game. Even the coaches themselves in fact have gravitated towards this idea of get as high value as you can with looking your very best etc, and then hit on girls in more or less any way you want as long as it's not completely retarded'. The days of worrying about how and when to qualify her or what neg to use or opening style etc have largely become redundant. It just doesn't matter. The game is played on the girls who are already into you!! (too paraphrase mark manson)

I just went om a date with a womam who confirmed exactly what you say (the part I bolded ). The thing is before OLD a woman was limited to the men she'd met. She might've met 2 guys a week that gave her those tingles. Then the guy had to have the balls to actually approach her.

Nowadays women have OLD , so the "2 seconds judgement " gets countless extra layers. Most women will have a string of bad dates which only makes them raise their bar even further.

If anything, game is more important than it's ever been before.

 

[RazorRambo24]

Its just a diff ball game when your competition can be viewed in seconds on a phone.. and the girl you like can look at how many followers and influence a man has, what type of stuff he posts, hoow nice his physique is, how tall he is, etc in seconds.

That's why I made a thread about knowing your competition. Most guys are clueless thts why they settle for their standards.. not knowing the guys out there not only look better, have whiter teeth with nice smiles, lift weights, can salsa dance, have tattoos and good sense of fashion, a nice well kept beard, etc etc

 

[Barrister]

The outlook in general has changed on SS from what it was. I have noticed a shift in the five years I have been an active member here. We have more black pill posters than we used to and they are a minority but very vocal. A lot of these guys want something for nothing. A lot of the mainstay posters that were around back in 2018 are also now gone - guys who were instrumental in helping me get out of a rut myself.

However, I think much of what has changed is simply a response to the dating market. In general, women can access validation easier than ever by signing up for some worthless site like Tinder. That wasn't something that existed back in the early 2000s. So the overall advice has to change. What may sound like pessimism is actually just realism. The fact is most women on OLD are just a waste of time because they just want validation.

The brass tacks that were preached back in the early 2000s are still true today, however. And you can apply them just as you could back then if you actually cold approach women and aren't afraid to interact with them. I do think men are worse about simply interacting with women now and feeling like they are doomed to failure than they were back in the 2000s. Some of this is understandable; some of it is just downright silly and/or lazy.

 

[SW15]

todays crop of men care more about their looks than previous generations.

It's possible. Swipe apps are more looks oriented than daygame or even night game.

15+ years ago, men didn't get facials or manicures. You would have been considered a pu$$y if you did.

Incorrect, there was a big metrosexual thing in the early 2000s. A 2018 New York Times article revisits a 2003 NY Times article about the metrosexuality thing.

‘Metrosexuals’ Were Just Straight Men Who Loved Self-Care. Right? (Published 2018)

In the early 2000s, heterosexuals who favored European jeans, wine bars and fancy face creams — the calling cards of some women and gay men — sparked a marketing frenzy.

www.nytimes.com

 

[The Duke]

It's possible. Swipe apps are more looks oriented than daygame or even night game.



Incorrect, there was a big metrosexual thing in the early 2000s. A 2018 New York Times article revisits a 2003 NY Times article about the metrosexuality thing.

‘Metrosexuals’ Were Just Straight Men Who Loved Self-Care. Right? (Published 2018)

In the early 2000s, heterosexuals who favored European jeans, wine bars and fancy face creams — the calling cards of some women and gay men — sparked a marketing frenzy.

www.nytimes.com

I think it depends on where you live. True, That metrosexual thing started it all but it took longer to catch on in some areas. I'd say most trends start in NYC or LA and take a few years before moving inland.

It's still not accepted in many areas, typically non urban.

 

[threeforfree]

I recently started paying way more attention to looks because I've pretty much checked off the other boxes. And I have time to kill so why not have better clothes, etc? I look a lot younger than I am, and I want to keep that as long as possible so I started taking better care of my face but not too overboard. When you're young, all your competitors are young too and the other stuff matters more. When you're 50 and going for the 30 year old, you don't want to look and act like a 50 year old even though she knows that you are. The longer you can keep that going, the better off you'll be.

 

[BillyPilgrim]

Easier to complain how hard it is so you don't do anything than to put any time or effort into yourself.

How does this relate to the game changes every other poster on the thread has noted?

Man, there could be a nuclear war and you'd be ragging on dudes for whatever.

Do you have *your* fallout shelter ready?

 

[BillyPilgrim]

OP you're 18. What has changed is that society has gotten worse. We are in an extraordinary time in history where many things are coming to a head - mostly behind the scenes - and the deteriorating dating market is one of many symptoms of this. There is a global subversion attempt of humanity currently underway and you may notice odd things happening at an accelerating rate going forward this year. This month even perphaps.

 

[forcerecon01]

It would be great to know what happened to "PuertoRicanLover and JakeThaSnake". They always said good stuff on here over two decades ago.

 

[Gamisch]

Its just a diff ball game when your competition can be viewed in seconds on a phone.. and the girl you like can look at how many followers and influence a man has, what type of stuff he posts, hoow nice his physique is, how tall he is, etc in seconds.

That's why I made a thread about knowing your competition. Most guys are clueless thts why they settle for their standards.. not knowing the guys out there not only look better, have whiter teeth with nice smiles, lift weights, can salsa dance, have tattoos and good sense of fashion, a nice well kept beard, etc etc

Great observation. The fairytale of "just be yourself and she will come" is a thing of the past. Players know you can score massively with women if you check as many seemingly superficial boxes as possible. It makes getting women just so much easier.

 

[patb]

Easier to complain how hard it is so you don't do anything than to put any time or effort into yourself.

Throwing down the gauntlet and saying no more is infinitely harder than spending your whole life as a circus attraction.

 

[patb]

Interesting post.
I'd answer it a slightly different way.

I know where you are coming from as I remember when the whole community was very different and the kind of answers you'd get to questions were very different to what you'd get now.

If someone on an PUA forum from 2008 was like 'There's this stunning 18 year old who moved in near me. How do I get her? I'm 50. I'm overweight and bald and very short, so i'm not sure if she'd be interested' the replies he would get would be like 'Don't worry about age and height etc. Girls only care about game. You need to open with neg to take her down a peg and then throw in some DHV stuff to show that you are a leader of men. She's now very attracted. Once she starts chasing you, you can qualify her and ask her what she has other than her looks and then suggest a date'

If the same question was asked now, it would be like 'Dude. You have like a 1 in a billion chance if she's a 10/10 teenager and you're a kind of ugly older dude. All you can do is shoot your shot. Just say 'hi' and ask her out. It's a numbers game, afterall. You can't make her attracted!'

Now, it might sound like i'm sh1tting on the modern community, but in all honestly, I think people have basically woke up! 'Game' as it was marketed in the old days was simply built on some big lies. And it was easier to fool people when we didn't have things like youtube even! (not to mention how the smartphone/tinder etc really opened up peoples eyes!)

Once all of this stuff required lots of proof of concept and infields came along and the community began to scrutinize way harder (such as demanding live infield streams and not cherry picked infields) it's like everyone kind of realised that even the 'best' pickup dudes aren't hypnotising girls into bed! It's not possible. The best PUA's are playing a numbers game of approaching girls and seeing who's into them (which, lets be honest, is 'mostly' decided by her within about 2 seconds. E.g 'your looks'). If this wasn't the case, there'd be millions of infields of ugly guys approaching girls who tell them they are not interested/ignore him/whatever, and then he 'turns the ship around' with his pushpull and confident body language and bangs her. I've seen just about every infield in existance, believe it or not. And i'm sure you can guess how often what I just described happens. Or anything even close too it. Yes. Never lol

I do think 'inner game' is still pushed though, which is good. And I don't think sosuave or even teh community is extremely blackpilled to the point everyone is crying about not being super handsome. But at the same time, I think most people are just more realistic nowadays about the very real limits of game. Even the coaches themselves in fact have gravitated towards this idea of get as high value as you can with looking your very best etc, and then hit on girls in more or less any way you want as long as it's not completely retarded'. The days of worrying about how and when to qualify her or what neg to use or opening style etc have largely become redundant. It just doesn't matter. The game is played on the girls who are already into you!! (too paraphrase mark manson)

Old school game advice was actually very counterproductive for someone prone to analytical paralysis. It did a lot of harm, I think.