63% of young American men are single while most women in the same age group are in relationships

[corrector]

Men who get laid by paying for it are not incel because they are having sex.

That is retarded because that would make every guy who is not paying for it a volcel by making it a choice between ability and willingness to pay. Then there is no incel period under that definition. According to any incel site, any guy who pays for it, and it's their only way of accessing women, then that person is an incel, and any person who partakes in using escorts while they are incel are escortcelling. An incel who uses escorts is an escortcel. Therefore their involuntary status is preserved and not undermined by paying for it.

MGTOWS by definition are not incels because they have made a decision that the juice is not worth the squeeze and have simply checked out of the dating market. You have either MGTOW or MGTOW monk-monk. What's missing in your post is the aspect of choice which undermines anything is unvoluntary in the first place. Incel actually means there is no choice involved and it really has to be an involuntary state or its voluntary celibacy.

By the way, not everybody thinks like you and believes the only reason you are here to get laid. When you project those beliefs on other people then you have a twisted view of the world that people lack a capacity of choice, in matters of celibacy, when they actually do have free-will.

 

[corrector]

Its not retarded. He has the ability to have the recources to get laid. Your morality is subjective.
Whats the difference with hubby doing chore play to get a blow job? Or the ring for the wedding?
The renovations so im more comfy?
200$ for an hour?

Married people generally are not considered incel. A single person who can't get a woman are either incel or MGTOW and is in a much different position to someone who is married. Only incels who use escorts are escortcelling, but it's possible that that label could be applied to MGTOWs who have checked out of the dating market.

 

[Gamisch]

Even among 30-49 year olds, there are more single men than single women.

Six out of 10 young men are single — the disturbing reasons why

New Pew Research Center data has found that 63% of men under 30 nowadays are electively single and experts have revealed the disturbing reasons why.

nypost.com

Better Bachelor has a good analysis of this too.

I disagree with the statememt that men shouldn't worry staying single. Especially 18-30. This is a man's prime in many ways.
Its a false premise that some day after 40 a great woman will show up out of nowhere ".

The game changed overnight..rules and stats that were applicable yesterday may not count today. If anything , i see older (35/40 +)y.o women almost exclusively dating younger men.

Whenever watch dating shows what stands out the most to me is the fact a guy joining these shows without having any game. I swear 80% of the time the man gets rejected. I geuss the producers from that show are somehow trying to really match people based on stats. But we all know that without GAME, a man is lost.

If anything, men should be chasing women as much as possible. Preferably they should start at age 14 , 15.

Fair enough. I think there's actually a shortage of hatred and bitterness in the places they're needed, though. Hatred and bitterness, I hope, are the social chemo that will eventually eradicate the cancerous growth that is today's society.

Shortage? You mean abundance? Women were never more hated and simultaneously feared by men. Women became an alien concept to most dudes.

I always say a don Juan needs a certain amount of bitterness. Like some recipes that taste great because the subtle mixture of sweet and sour. A experienced man (or woman) will have a heart with milage on it. The "non bitter " men most of the time gibe out this brotherly vibe ,rathr than a lover's vibe.You should try to use your bitterness as a tool.

Bitterness separates the boys from the men.

Here's a good video about navigating a social circle to get women:

I expected a analytical video about social circles, but it was rather a depressing "dear diary" type of monologue .

I hear no accountability from the narrator. Its always his or her fault that he wasn't the most popular kid . Completely dependent upon other's social skills. I wasn't the most popular kid, and rather introverted, but it did lead me to trying to learn running game by myself . When a man becomes hungry he'll either hunt or die.

Maybe so. But a pua is a simp in denial.

Yes but what would you rather be? A simp or an incel? Tbh i like the point you're making. Somehow mgtow sound cooler than simp. Back in the days mgtow meant strange loser on a long dryspell

When all thing are equal women ,logically, prefer a simp over a mgtow type of man. Simps at least are opportunistic enough to have some fun with.

I don't believe mgtow is something men like to do. It's the male equivalent of using stupid phrases to sugar coat reality. Women say they're having situationships, fwb, to not be called a ho4. Men use mgtow to not be called a loser.

 

[BillyPilgrim]

Went right over your head bro.
An incel is there by involuntary means.
A guy paying an escort is taking action and responsibility to his sexual needs. Big difference.

Yeah, not sure how you can be celibate if you're having sex. Escortcelling is a contradiction in terms.

 

[corrector]

Went right over your head bro.
An incel is there by involuntary means.
A guy paying an escort is taking action and responsibility to his sexual needs. Big difference.

Not by someone WILLING to have sex with him.

 

[corrector]

Yeah, not sure how you can be celibate if you're having sex. Escortcelling is a contradiction in terms.

Sex involves two willing people otherwise it's glorified fapping to the guy, and just a job with another loser (in her mind you are either cheating on your wife, girlfriend, or have a moral or social defect or deficiency in some way to be paying for it in the first place) to the lady.

 

[patb]

Shortage? You mean abundance? Women were never more hated and simultaneously feared by men. Women became an alien concept to most dudes.

I always say a don Juan needs a certain amount of bitterness. Like some recipes that taste great because the subtle mixture of sweet and sour. A experienced man (or woman) will have a heart with milage on it. The "non bitter " men most of the time gibe out this brotherly vibe ,rathr than a lover's vibe.You should try to use your bitterness as a tool.

Bitterness separates the boys from the men.

It can be a double edged sword, for sure.

Maybe the degree of misogyny is unprecedented -- women have certainly invited it by letting the mask slip, being all but immune to consequences as they now are. But I still see no shortage of simping and delusional nonsense. Certainly, the discontent has yet to reach the critical mass necessary to reshape society.

Yes but what would you rather be? A simp or an incel? Tbh i like the point you're making. Somehow mgtow sound cooler than simp. Back in the days mgtow meant strange loser on a long dryspell

It varies from day to day. I'm increasingly sliding towards the latter. A lifetime of eating **** is taking its toll, and I've done about as much to accommodate women and society as I will or can. Having started long ago as an overweight NEET, I'm highly skeptical that further "self-improvement" will be gainful. Despite having done most everything that's traditionally asked, I was actually treated better back then, simply because external factors have gotten so much worse.

I don't believe mgtow is something men like to do. It's the male equivalent of using stupid phrases to sugar coat reality. Women say they're having situationships, fwb, to not be called a ho4. Men use mgtow to not be called a loser.

I'd say that's somewhat true. But there's something to be said for knowing when to cut your losses and walk away. I'd agree they're not much different than incels -- last place aversion prevents them from admitting it. That's why I respect self-described incels -- honesty of that degree is a rare quality. Far rarer than the PUA's "courage" to entertain women's cancerous Queen of Hearts-esque demands.

 

[MatureDJ]

Sex involves two willing people otherwise it's glorified fapping to the guy, and just a job with another loser (in her mind you are either cheating on your wife, girlfriend, or have a moral or social defect or deficiency in some way to be paying for it in the first place) to the lady.

I think we all know that one way or another every non-Chad-tier man pays for it.

 

[SW15]

I think we all know that one way or another every non-Chad-tier man pays for it.

I agree with this. I believe that every man, including the top tier ones, pay for sex. It happens either directly or indirectly.

 

[MatureDJ]

Maybe so. But a pua is a simp in denial.

I shall have to disagree. PUA is simply maximizing one's status & opportunities regardless of the simping characteristic.

 

[MatureDJ]

I agree with this. I believe that every man, including the top tier ones, pay for sex. It happens either directly or indirectly.

There is certainly something to be said that even Chad has to spend some time in at least organizing his harem - and that if he didn't want to bear that burden, he would need to pay for it (like Charlie Sheen, a status-Chad).

 

[corrector]

I agree with this. I believe that every man, including the top tier ones, pay for sex. It happens either directly or indirectly.

Well this the canary in the coal mine. When people cant tell the difference of someone who is into you and someone who is doing it because its their job then there is no words.

Its good to see where this don juan board is going.

 

[corrector]

There is certainly something to be said that even Chad has to spend some time in at least organizing his harem - and that if he didn't want to bear that burden, he would need to pay for it (like Charlie Sheen, a status-Chad).

Chads cant escortcel because they know they can get a woman that is hb8+. Only a non chad who cant get an hb5+ can escortcel with an hb8+. Dont confuse an issue of convenience with a crutch.

 

[corrector]

All relationships are transactional. Thats a fact. Even the devine demanded this.

In the context of a traditional marriage a man is expected to provide.

 

[corrector]

Ya no kidding. Thats transactional. Its become a covert contract. Till death do us part...what dont you get??

Its not relevant to the arc of discussion because you are comparing apples to oranges. You really want to start a religious argument and use marriage to justify pre-maritial and extra-maritial sex and visiting hookers? We will have to do DM messaging then as its against the forum rules.

 

[corrector]

A cursury glance of reddits, and random articles do indicate that things like OF and sex work is being more mainstreamed and normalized. It does not have the same level of stigma as the 00s. But it could be that most guys are MGTOWS and incels. Even I have to acknowledge this trend on this board that more and more, "successful" guys are priced out in terms of money or time.

It is on CNN and its becoming a mainstream societal theme about only a small amount of guys are successful while most are not. The suicide rates are 4 times higher for guys and there are more mass shootings as more guys feel isolated.

Its up to the successful redpillers to take over the arc of discussion about escortcelling. Or maybe they are part of the 15% and won the genetic lottery and nobody cares what they have to say either.

 

[needimprovement250]

Porn is a lot like alcohol. As the Simpsons said, its the cause of - and solution to - all of life's problems, heh.

The amazing thing is how it makes singledom tolerable while perpetuating it at the same time, for the reasons you mentioned. Just like alcohol with boredom or stress.

I believe that reducing our standards in terms of what turns us on sexually is important so that we have more options to find good character, and porn doesnt help us do that. It raises standards and makes us attracted to hypersexual women instead of normal women. Just think about how many women looked good when you were young, if you remember a time before internet porn(Im old enough to remember).

On the flip side, porn can help keep you creative in the bedroom and prevent you from regretfully sleeping with women you arent compatible with or attracted to just to get laid. I have avoided hurting women this way and hurting myself by getting addicted to toxic women as well.

That statement from the Simpsons is very true. It definitely does make singledom more tolerable because most of us here know that it would be a whole lot worse if we had to be perpetually single without being able to see naked women at all and never get off. Porn is also not like what it used to be for previous generations of men, where you had to get your hands on a Playboy or go to the store to buy/rent a dirty movie on tape. We now live in a world where we walk around with internet connected devices in our pockets that can access millions of different porn videos at any given time, all for free. This data about how many single men there are also explains the rise of more personalized porn experiences via sites like OnlyFans and cam sites, where you can DM the girl you see in the videos and have conversations with them. Corrector accurately describes those sites as "the girlfriend experience of porn" I can speak from experience that perpetually single men will often seek out a more personalized porn experience because they want something that will make them feel less lonely in addition to getting them off. But it definitely does perpetuate the singledom because you're never sexually motivated enough to venture out into the dating world and the personalized porn experiences cost money, which is being spent on that instead of using the money to go on real dates.

It definitely does raise your standards when it comes to looks and sexual expectations, regular women start to become less attractive to you and you'll find yourself only wanting women that look like the ones you see in the videos. Another thing that can happen is becoming bored with one woman a lot faster since with porn, almost all men shuffle through several videos with different women whenever they watch it. This can make monogamy a lot harder to achieve if that's what a man wants since hes so used to always getting off to different women instead of the same one every single time.

Yeah a lot of couples do use porn to find new ideas in the bedroom and they also watch porn together on a regular basis, which could either be a good or bad thing depending on how you look at it. I know exactly what you're saying about it being helpful with stopping you from sleeping with the wrong women just because you want a release. There's someone who was interested in me, but she's kind of a toxic person and when I was over a week with out porn and getting off, I became very tempted to get in contact with her and see if we would end up having sex, but I looked at a porn video and got off, and then I came to my senses and realized that would be a bad idea.

 

[needimprovement250]

Yeah I agree porn is extremely unhealthy esp the more hardcore it gets. Getting off porn for me meant looking at just naked women and moving away from looking at sex acts. Something very depraved about getting off on some guy ****ing a woman.

Yep, I've heard it called virtual cuckoldry in NoFap communities and that's actually pretty true since you are watching another man having sex with a woman you're attracted to. I've actually spent money on private cam shows where its just me and the couple and afterwards I felt like sh*t because I pretty much just paid a guy for permission to watch him fu*k his gf. Porn is never healthy to get too involved in, but what you were doing was better than most other options when it comes to porn.

 

[needimprovement250]

Even semi-naked women/bikini if they are escort pics are extremely triggering because when they advertise a price and a service then your imagination goes hay-wire (especially if you start texting them for more details and they are replying to you like you are a potential client). You could have a picture of just a face on a fully clothed lady, but if it's next to an escort ad that implies she sells throating then even that face is triggering. Even Muslim women with hijabs on are triggering because you can be aroused by a woman's face alone. Honestly, it's hopeless. This week, I experience strong conviction in my conscious against looking at such women and their services, where they work from, because you are still lusting. The lusting in and of itself makes me feel bad.

I might rarely look at hardcore, and if I do, I'm usingly looking at thumbnails but don't actually play any videos because it seems gross, especialy with hd-playback, and it's just not something I feel naturally interested in. If it was just hardcore, then for me, porn would have been dead sometime in the 00s decade. If it wasn't for high-speed internet technology, then for me, porn would have been dead in the 90s decade. It's just escort pics that is holding me back with this.

I know exactly what you mean about the escort pics. There's one who works out of one of the legal brothels in Nevada and one of her specialties is helping inexperienced men. She'll even go on a practice date with you as part of your experience with her since there's a bar and restaurant onsite at the brothel so that you can also know how to act on a date while also gaining some sexual experience. When I looked at her pics, I began to fantasize what we would do during our session if I booked one with her and it was very triggering. I actually posted a thread on here months ago asking if I should go see this escort and the results were pretty divided.

If guys that are heavily using porn find it difficult to maintain an erection DURING sex, then they should consider whether their grip is ruining sensitivity. No pusssy is as tight as my grip....

The escort I just mentioned has actually talked about this on her website. Apparently her and other escorts call it "death grip" and she said that shes encountered several virgin men who couldn't get it up with her, despite them having no issues when jerking it to porn. She also advised any men who watch a lot of porn to go weeks without watching any or jerking it before coming to see her.

 

[needimprovement250]

I partially agree with this. More often than not, I feel that if a woman ever tells you she has a boyfriend you are just better off moving on. Even if she was interested, there's no real reason to actively pursue a woman that is in a relationship. We have to factor in some context though, if this is some random woman you crossed paths with I'd say it's safe to say she just isn't interested. If this is someone you have at least some capacity to see again she'll make it easy for you down the road. Just saying, I don't think it's safe to pursue women that are taken and have them monkey branch over, the guy could break a gasket and freak out over it.

I used to not care at all. Nowadays I feel like a scumbag if I’m trying to take someone’s girl from him.

In my opinion, if a woman is in a relationship and behaving that way with another man she has already checked out. The bf might blame the guy she has been entertaining, but the reality was their relationship was already over with and he just happened to be the other guy at that given space of time. She would have behaved the same way with any other man who by chance crossed paths with her and they both had at least some degree of mutual interest. However, a lot of men don't see it this way and they blame the guy for "stealing" his girl lol when he should just be mad at her or even himself. When I look at other people's relationships that involved stuff like this it's actually kind of obvious when one party has lost interest and is "quiet quitting". Ideally people can just have a proper discussion and allow one another to move on but that's often not how it works.

With all of this said, I'd definitely be wary of actually dating a woman who monkey branched from a bf over to me. As I mentioned above, if she acts like that with another man whilst in a relationship what is to say she won't do that again? A lot of guys might think they are special but chances are this isn't the case. You should also consider that there may even be something wrong with this woman where literally nothing is ever good enough or she is just never satisfied with men, who knows.

This section of the thread really stood out to me. As I am right now, I have a scarcity mindset that I'm trying to get rid of and that's why I'm having difficulty moving on from a woman that I met 6 years ago back in 2017. Since its been that long, I know that I need to call it quits and move on, but the problem is that I haven't met any women at all since her and I know that's what I need to be cured from this. I met her at a seasonal job and when I first met her, she was single and I tried texting her after the work season ended, but I failed miserably. I actually posted that text exchange here on SS from an old account that is no longer active and everyone who replied to that thread said that I messed up bad and that I probably killed all the interest she had in me, so I listened and never tried to text her again. She then got into a relationship with someone who was very abusive towards her, both physically and emotionally. When she was with him, I think she was willing to monkeybranch to me, but I missed her signals that she was giving me due to my inexperience and that's the same reason why I failed when texting her. She's since broken up with him and is dating a new guy who she's now living with (she lived with the abusive guy too), but she's aware that I'm interested in her and she still acts receptive towards me even while being with this new guy who she claims to be very happy with as he does everything for her including all the cooking and housekeeping and even her laundry. I ended up meeting her new bf and he was very unfriendly towards me and I was not unfriendly towards him in any way since I don't hold any ill will towards either one of them. I think he could tell that me and her have a rapport and he was not happy, I could totally see this guy freaking out and doing something drastic if she did monkeybranch over to me from him. Sometimes you just get that vibe from a person and they seem like the type of person to react in that way. Me and this girl are also opposites in several different ways in terms of things like our political views, the music and TV/movies we like, what we like do to for fun, etc. Its just that I hardly ever meet any women and I wish that I did because this girl would be an afterthought if that was the case.