You guys have done cold approaching all wrong

[tksniper]

I've been doing door to door solar sales for years and have generated my company over a million dollars. There is a principle we follow called "the law of averages". This states that after a few hundred approaches, everything reverts back to the mean. Meaning, if you are a quality salesman, you will always average a certain percentage of conversions. As long as you give yourself enough chances. However, there is one advantage we have over homeowners as solar consultants. We've had the "why go solar" conversation a million times. We practice it every day. When we show up to the door, even if we get a little "window of opportunity", it's a close. It's not even fair. The homeowners have had the "why go solar" conversation once or twice with their family members. It's sell or be SOLD. Who's going to sell to whom? The person who's had the conversation a million times and has mastered every objection and has every rebuttal ready to shoot fire at homeowners, or the homeowner, who's had the conversation once or twice? Add in to the fact that I am knocking tons of houses, building social momentum, getting out of my head, and calibrating to every objection, and the homeowner probably just woke up before answering their door.

The reason why you guys have done cold approaching all wrong is because you've had the "seduction" conversation FAR LESS than women - especially if you are going out to night clubs. The average attractive woman has had that conversation a million times. Meanwhile, you've barely managed to muster enough courage to have it a few times a week (if even). The women at night clubs have all the rebuttals and are calibrated to every possible situation you can think of. Unless you are obviously high value with the self confidence to match, you are not going to convince these women anything.

The guys who succeed at night clubs are guys who also have had that "seduction" conversation a million times.

So how do you position yourself as the guy who's had the "seduction" conversation a million times? By practicing being social at book stores, libraries, meet up groups, yoga classes, the gym, Starbucks, various coffee shops, etc. These are places where women dont have all the rebuttals and dominant guys don't reign in (or approach). THIS is where you can maximize your sales.

 

[Jesse Pinkman]

HA! Nice try buddy. Daygame has been popularized with the rise of PUAs. Entire malls in cities like Toronto are banning PUAs because since the dawn of clowns like Mystery and Neil Strauss, literally every other dude wants to be a dating coach. I live in Miami and see women get approached every day and it has made them numb. Most guys come off as creepy and even if you do not, you have to be so calibrated to make up for the fact that some random dudes approached her all day and made her feel on edge. Yoga classes are flooded with horny dudes looking to get laid.

However, here is where men have been doing game wrong.

It is not about volume, it is about efficiency.

I have known so many dudes who for years have been running their head against the wall doing "game". Every single f-cking day it is the same approach with these losers. The same cheesy "hey ur cute" or "hey u look good" opener. Spamming and doing it to 50 different women a day until one bites.

Meanwhile, the best guys are efficient. When they are newbies, they start out with a higher volume. Overtime, they find what works and that is why they get 10 approaches in a day but multiple dates. Meanwhile, some "game student" who is "taking action" does 50 approaches and barely gets anything.

Saying the same freaking opener 50 times is taking stupid action, it is the definition of insanity. Instead, try various openers, find which one works, and then work on getting better every day. It is why in a year I was able to have success while some dudes do this for ages and don't get anything.

 

[tksniper]

HA! Nice try buddy. Daygame has been popularized with the rise of PUAs. Entire malls in cities like Toronto are banning PUAs because since the dawn of clowns like Mystery and Neil Strauss, literally every other dude wants to be a dating coach. I live in Miami and see women get approached every day and it has made them numb. Most guys come off as creepy and even if you do not, you have to be so calibrated to make up for the fact that some random dudes approached her all day and made her feel on edge. Yoga classes are flooded with horny dudes looking to get laid.

However, here is where men have been doing game wrong.

It is not about volume, it is about efficiency.

I have known so many dudes who for years have been running their head against the wall doing "game". Every single f-cking day it is the same approach with these losers. The same cheesy "hey ur cute" or "hey u look good" opener. Spamming and doing it to 50 different women a day until one bites.

Meanwhile, the best guys are efficient. When they are newbies, they start out with a higher volume. Overtime, they find what works and that is why they get 10 approaches in a day but multiple dates. Meanwhile, some "game student" who is "taking action" does 50 approaches and barely gets anything.

Saying the same freaking opener 50 times is taking stupid action, it is the definition of insanity. Instead, try various openers, find which one works, and then work on getting better every day. It is why in a year I was able to have success while some dudes do this for ages and don't get anything.

You're just talking about calibration. If you do something long enough (like in sales), you'll know what works. You live in Miami so women are different from other parts in the states. Obviously Miami women have been hit on in all facets of life since puberty. I travel for my job and there have been plenty of cities where I would talk to women in a Starbucks or any coffee shop and they act like I'm the most confident guy they've met in a while.

 

[Jesse Pinkman]

You're just talking about calibration. If you do something long enough (like in sales), you'll know what works. You live in Miami so women are different from other parts in the states. Obviously Miami women have been hit on in all facets of life since puberty. I travel for my job and there have been plenty of cities where I would talk to women in a Starbucks or any coffee shop and they act like I'm the most confident guy they've met in a while.

Quite an assumption. Most people do the same stupid thing over and over and over and over again for years and then blame outside circumstances on it not working.

 

[tksniper]

Quite an assumption. Most people do the same stupid thing over and over and over and over again for years and then blame outside circumstances on it not working.

I can see that. I guess a more accurate statement would be if you do something long enough, smart guys who are accountable with no egos will realize what doesn't work and will be humble enough to adjust, and entitled guys will continue to blame the world.

 

[f(x)]

A crafted approach gets a crafted rejection, etc.

 

[member160292]

I can see that. I guess a more accurate statement would be if you do something long enough, smart guys who are accountable with no egos will realize what doesn't work and will be humble enough to adjust, and entitled guys will continue to blame the world.

It’s nice to know that someone shares that on here. Being humble has given me more opportunities with women even if I’m well below the ‘chad’ tier.

 

[SmoothSmooth]

Cold approach is like online dating or nightclubs. If you are in the top 5% of men in looks, height, money, status, voice/conversation and social skills, then you will CRUSH it. If a girl meets you and IMMEDIATELY feels ‘wow, this guy is attractive’ based on entirely superficial metrics, then cold approach will work for you. Those kind of guys ALREADY KNOW they have that effect on women and their confidence comes from years of successful interactions. Their preselection is instantly recognisable. The very second they approach a girl, she responds warmly, enthusiastically and feels honoured. They also have instagram pages which reflect their popularity so the woman’s initial impression is solidified when she searches him later on. Guys like that can have a very high conversion rate of 20% of approaches leading to date.

Cold approach is a waste of time for the average man. Unless he wants to spend hours of his life with cold and indifferent women, or women pretending to be polite. Average men should meet women either by gaining some kind of status in a small environment (eg through a hobby or social activity or employment), or through social circle and gaining a good reputation amongst friends

 

[characternote]

You can't negotiate attraction.
Comparing to sales where someone might actually be interested in buying solar (Good salesmen tend to qualify the potential buyer early for a good reason!) to dealing with objections because you're not her type is kind of apples and oranges

I had a funny reddit thread from the seduction sub saved that I was going to link, but I can't seem to find it

Basically, it was one of John anthony's students saying he could get any girl he wanted because he learnt the correct objection line for any objection she had, and he was coaching someone else in the thread who was writing field reports. The issue the guy writing the FR;s had was that the objection lines 'worked' when her objection was like 'we can't have sex tonight because i'm working tomorrow', but they weren't the type of 'objections' he was getting.

The 'objections' HE was getting was more 'you're not my type and i'm not interested in you. Have a good night' kind of thing. Or girls ignoring him and looking to their friends to save her after the dude was like 'Hey, I like your jacket' (or in his case, 'hey, can I meet you real quick' - taken from that fraud 'john anthony'). In these situations, there was no 'objection line' that worked. That included 'attraction material' when he reverted too a more old school method in the thread from memory. This just isn't a computer game. There is no super effective lines and techniques etc that is going to give you some sort of massive edge over anyone else. The best game in the world really means you have a much better chance of banging the girls who are into you. Not 'making' them into you

 

[Stanley]

You can't negotiate attraction.
Comparing to sales where someone might actually be interested in buying solar (Good salesmen tend to qualify the potential buyer early for a good reason!) to dealing with objections related too a lack of attrraction is kind of apples and oranges
I had a funny reddit thread from the seduction sub saved that I was going to link, but I can't seem to find it

Seddit is a joke and always will be

 

[tksniper]

You can't negotiate attraction.
Comparing to sales where someone might actually be interested in buying solar (Good salesmen tend to qualify the potential buyer early for a good reason!) to dealing with objections related too a lack of attrraction is kind of apples and oranges

I had a funny reddit thread from the seduction sub saved that I was going to link, but I can't seem to find it

Basically, it was one of John anthony's students saying he could get any girl he wanted because he learnt the correct objection line for any objection she had, and he was coaching someone else in the thread who was writing field reports. The issue the guy writing the FR;s had was that the objection lines 'worked' when her objection was like 'we can't have sex tonight because i'm working tomorrow', but they weren't the type of 'objections' he was getting.

The 'objections' HE was getting was more 'you're not my type and i'm not interested in you. Have a good night' kind of thing. Or girls ignoring him and looking to their friends to save her after the dude was like 'Hey, I like your jacket' (or in his case, 'hey, can I meet you real quick' - taken from that fraud 'john anthony'). In these situations, there was no 'objection line' that worked. That included 'attraction material' when he reverted too a more old school method in the thread from memory. This just isn't a computer game. There is no super effective lines and techniques etc that is going to give you some sort of massive edge over anyone else. The best game in the world really means you have a much better chance of banging the girls who are into you. Not 'making' them into you

it’s an apples to apples comparison when you factor in the law of averages. In sales if you are confident in your product and yourself, all you need is play the numbers game. For 15 leads, I get 1 close and make $2500 -$5000. This is assuming I am confident in my product and myself and improving my game everyday.

With women, for every 15 approaches I usually get a few dates. Practice being social where men arent typically social, improve yourself to the point where your value is high enough, and just play the law of averages.

What the best salesmen and best ladies men have in common is they dont Have ego and pride holding them back. They know that they just need to bring their numbers up. The more they approach, the more the law of averages will work in their favor.

Attraction is just like marketing. In marketing, you want to become a niche and appeal to the 10%. It’s not possible to appeal to everyone so don’t even try.

The challenge is getting rejected by the 90% and not losing your attitude. Those are the guys who get laid the most or get the most sales.

Sales has really helped my attitude with women. Every time I get rejected in either sales or women I just tell myself “Of course that’s supposed to happen. I’m supposed to get rejected 90% of the time.” And eventually I either get the woman or the sale.

There are some salesmen who think they can overturn every objection. This is bad salesmanship. The best salesman know only 10% will like his product and he spends most of his time just disqualifying people until he runs into that 10% that’s worth his time and effort. It’s called QTQP (quality time, quality people). This is how you protect your energy.

With women, it works the same way. If you are a good enough product and believe in yourself, just get the rejections out of the way and disqualify women until you run into one that appreciates what you have to offer and CLOSE.

 

[Divorced w 3]

I've been doing door to door solar sales for years and have generated my company over a million dollars. There is a principle we follow called "the law of averages". This states that after a few hundred approaches, everything reverts back to the mean. Meaning, if you are a quality salesman, you will always average a certain percentage of conversions. As long as you give yourself enough chances. However, there is one advantage we have over homeowners as solar consultants. We've had the "why go solar" conversation a million times. We practice it every day. When we show up to the door, even if we get a little "window of opportunity", it's a close. It's not even fair. The homeowners have had the "why go solar" conversation once or twice with their family members. It's sell or be SOLD. Who's going to sell to whom? The person who's had the conversation a million times and has mastered every objection and has every rebuttal ready to shoot fire at homeowners, or the homeowner, who's had the conversation once or twice? Add in to the fact that I am knocking tons of houses, building social momentum, getting out of my head, and calibrating to every objection, and the homeowner probably just woke up before answering their door.

The reason why you guys have done cold approaching all wrong is because you've had the "seduction" conversation FAR LESS than women - especially if you are going out to night clubs. The average attractive woman has had that conversation a million times. Meanwhile, you've barely managed to muster enough courage to have it a few times a week (if even). The women at night clubs have all the rebuttals and are calibrated to every possible situation you can think of. Unless you are obviously high value with the self confidence to match, you are not going to convince these women anything.

The guys who succeed at night clubs are guys who also have had that "seduction" conversation a million times.

So how do you position yourself as the guy who's had the "seduction" conversation a million times? By practicing being social at book stores, libraries, meet up groups, yoga classes, the gym, Starbucks, various coffee shops, etc. These are places where women dont have all the rebuttals and dominant guys don't reign in (or approach). THIS is where you can maximize your sales.

This is like saying, let’s go practice hitting golf balls, I have a baseball game coming up and the pitcher throws a tight splitter. I wanna be ready.

Night game and day game are like Cantonese and English. Reference, I’m a salesman also. Congrats on hitting a million in sales.

 

[SW15]

Arranging first dates and getting laid has some similarity to business development and marketing. They are not entirely analogous though.

Door-to-door sales is the business equivalent of spam game.

In business, people are now pissed off by telephone cold callers, door-to-door salespeople, spam emailers, and spam cold pitches in the LinkedIn DMs. Telephone cold calling, door-to-door sales, and spam email are outdated practices by decades. Cold pitching in the LinkedIn DMs has been ineffective for nearly a decade as well.

If you're using a spammy technique in either business development or in seduction, it's possible to be effective, but a spammy technique user will need to increase the volume of interactions constantly to get the same outcome.

Right now, almost no one would give a door-to-door solar salesperson a window of opportunity. Almost no one fields cold calls on the telephone either. Random email response rates have gotten worse every year, as have responses from cold pitches in the LinkedIn DMs.

Men who approach women in person are experiencing similar things. Earbuds, smartphones, and dog walking have reduced the number of women who are open to fielding an approach dramatically. Yes, it's possible to start an approach on a woman wearing earbuds and/or walking 1-2 dogs in a park/on a path, but that approach likely won't go anywhere. Outdoors, women not wearing earbuds or with dog aren't even that inclined to talk with a random man either, but at least the odds are higher there.

@Jesse Pinkman is correct that efficiency matters more than volume. There is a need for some amount of volume because if a certain volume threshold isn't met, increased efficiency isn't going to result in effectiveness. Even efficient men are finding that there's a need for more and more volume as more and more women are resistant to in-person approach tactics. A lot of women don't need to field in-person approaches when they have a swipe queue on apps that is hundreds deep and a backlog of social media DMs that is also hundreds deep as well. That last sentence tends to affect game at nightlife venues more so than non-bar approaching, but it's still affecting non-bar approaching. Unattached women can afford to wear earbuds to the gym and outdoors to reduce in-person approaches because they have strong pipelines for arranging dates.

 

[SmoothSmooth]

You can’t negotiate attraction
You can only learn to how pass her tests, maintain the perception of value, and build comfort with a woman who is already attracted to you. This what we call ‘game’.
Let’s say a girl meets 15 guys a week she feels some level of immediate attraction for. She can only pick one. So if you’re one of the 15, game is what makes you win again the other 14. A guy who isn’t in the initial 15, is just invisible to her or straight up annoying.

Game doesn’t make you one of the 15. Social status, looks, height, race, money, fashion, career does. So self improvement is the only thing that can help a man who isn’t instantly attractive to women. if you have below average looks - a top tier body, status (eg a good career or instagram popularity etc) and money (designer clothes etc) can make you part of the 15.

a woman would pick an attractive loser over an unattractive winner (unless she is looking for a beta provider). That’s why you see so many beta guys, with zero game but they have looks and style and manage to get a hot girlfriend (even if she’s not ‘crazy’ about him due to his beta tendencies)

 

[miso]

Something that would be really interesting would be if someone created a VR AI system that acted like random cold approach women so guys could practice the conversational parts at home as many hours as they want. It won't help as much with the physical frame part but at least it would be something that guys could practice as much as they want wherever they want without any downside. I know it's highly unlikely anyone would spend millions to develop this but I think there would be a strong commercial case for a salesman trainer AI and that could be adapted to a cold approach AI.

 

[We_ArE_VeNOM]

So how do you position yourself as the guy who's had the "seduction" conversation a million times? By practicing being social at book stores, libraries, meet up groups, yoga classes, the gym, Starbucks, various coffee shops, etc. These are places where women dont have all the rebuttals and dominant guys don't reign in (or approach). THIS is where you can maximize your sales.

Exactly.

Egg*fukin*zakly.

But remember who you are speaking to.

You are speaking to a bunch of guys who don't have the balls to approach women outside club or party atmospheres.

They shun the idea of telling a woman what they are REALLY thinking (Mode One), and would rather gamble their money, time, power, and self esteem away with erotic hypocrites and manipulative timewasters.

 

[We_ArE_VeNOM]

.

Most guys come off as creepy

I've said this countless times in different variations, and I will say it again...

Men of whom women are attracted, do NOT come across as creepy.

If a woman finds you attractive, she will more likely than not be receptive to your approach.

Which is exactly why on my very first thread, I stressed the concept of increasing your sexual market value (SMV), so that you can be what Rom Wills calls; a select man to women.

and even if you do not, you have to be so calibrated to make up for the fact that some random dudes approached her all day and made her feel on edge. Yoga classes are flooded with horny dudes looking to get laid.

Miami may be an exception, but I don't buy the idea that women are out there getting approached by random dudes...not to the extent that you are claiming.

Again, Miami may be the exception, but generally speaking, it ain't that serious.

Especially during the day in what I would call the "commons" (grocery stores, coffee shop, library, etc).

Now, in the club, at a party, or on the beach....perhaps.

But not at grocery stores or coffee shops.

However, here is where men have been doing game wrong.

It is not about volume, it is about efficiency.

That is where you have the game wrong.

It is about volume, AND efficiency.

It is a numbers game. The more women you approach, the more your chances increase of getting sum.

And you want to be efficient.

What does efficiency look like?

Opinions vary.

But in my opinion, good efficiency is a closing rate (from approach, to number, to intimate physical contact), is 30% or higher.

So, if you approach 100 women (volume), and you snag 30 of them (efficiency)...you are swimming in the part of the lake where not many men are qualified to swim in.

You can then sit at the "cool kids" table in the lunch room.

I have known so many dudes who for years have been running their head against the wall doing "game". Every single f-cking day it is the same approach with these losers. The same cheesy "hey ur cute" or "hey u look good" opener. Spamming and doing it to 50 different women a day until one bites.

I can't help but think this is a shot at me, considering the fact that I've been advocating the simple "hey, ur cute" approach and have been criticized for such an opener/approach.

Newsflash: If the woman is attracted to you, "hey, ur cute" should be all you need to say....and as a guy with a 35% closing rate, it works...at least for me it does.

Simple, direct, and bold.

Meanwhile, the best guys are efficient. When they are newbies, they start out with a higher volume. Overtime, they find what works and that is why they get 10 approaches in a day but multiple dates. Meanwhile, some "game student" who is "taking action" does 50 approaches and barely gets anything.

Saying the same freaking opener 50 times is taking stupid action, it is the definition of insanity. Instead, try various openers, find which one works, and then work on getting better every day. It is why in a year I was able to have success while some dudes do this for ages and don't get anything.

After a man increases his sexual market value, and build confidence in himself..

It will be less about what he say, and more about how he looks, thinks, and feels.

 

[We_ArE_VeNOM]

@Jesse Pinkman is correct that efficiency matters more than volume. There is a need for some amount of volume because if a certain volume threshold isn't met, increased efficiency isn't going to result in effectiveness.

Well, realistically speaking, when it comes to cold approaching; the average man will get rejected more often than not.

So in order to offset the rejections and to actually be efficient, you need to increase the volume of your approaches.

That is why in sports (lets say, basketball), in order earn the right to be ranked as one of the best free throw shooters in the game (by percentage), the player must have a certain amount of free throw attempts (volume) to qualify.

Even efficient men are finding that there's a need for more and more volume as more and more women are resistant to in-person approach tactics. A lot of women don't need to field in-person approaches when they have a swipe queue on apps that is hundreds deep and a backlog of social media DMs that is also hundreds deep as well.

Which is why a lot less guys are out there cold approaching women, and also why you will stand out from amongst your "peers" when you are the one guy that is approaching them/her.