Highly demanding corporate jobs ruin your social and dating life

[Smooth_texter]

Hi forum.

As the title says, I think that (mentally) demanding jobs do not leave time and energy for dealing with women.
I also live in the suburbs of a large city, far from downtown and the popular venues, so basically my only options are swipe apps.

I manage to get dates here and there, and even had briefly a FWB from there, but the texting and screening required way more time and effort that I imagined.
Basically it's an underwhelming experience, and I do think that a man should do day game, have social circles and so on, but I currently cannot dedicate time during the week for that.


What has been your experience with a stressful job?

 

[EyeBRollin]

My career has required frequent out of town work travel. It has been much more helpful in dating / mating than it has been hurtful.

 

[Stanley]

I think a lot of guys (most) in the western world feel this to an extent. Depends on the Job, but with assumption of typical rat race 9-5 office job I'd say yes. You gotta make an effort to get out there

Seems relevant ↓

The new archetype Roman( the average guy that has trouble finding women)

This deserves it's own thread. I will copy some posts from earlier this week so I dont have to repeat things or even miss and leave out crucial information.

www.sosuave.net

 

[SW15]

I think that (mentally) demanding jobs do not leave time and energy for dealing with women.

I agree with you.

I also live in the suburbs of a large city, far from downtown and the popular venues, so basically my only options are swipe apps.

My sense is that your suburban location is likely a bigger problem than your job, unless you are working 50+ hours weekly. Then you would have two near equally significant problems. Swipe apps are also a large part of your problem too.

When you consider large cities, men need to live in neighborhoods with a significant concentration of unmarried people. That's the only way a man can have a strong chance in a bigger city. Suburban areas near large cities are mainly attached people or divorced moms staying in the same school district for their children. The two common attached groups in the suburbs are Empty Nesters (couples who moved to the suburbs for raising their now grown children) or those with children under 18. Both married moms and divorced moms exist in the suburbs.

Basically it's an underwhelming experience, and I do think that a man should do day game, have social circles and so on, but I currently cannot dedicate time during the week for that.

You will need to make some sort of significant change. Your current path in unsustainable. You'll need to change your job, change your neighborhood, change your method of meeting women, or assess/change your relational goals.

 

[RazorRambo24]

Being an business owner/self made for such a long time has made me more lustful, more sexually addicted but also more adept than I ever was before at connecting with women. These days its all second nature.. and its gotten me in trouble a few times. Regardless, I'm cutting out one aspect that will help me calm things down a bit and thats cutting out going to the club as much so I can focus on my plates as well as cutting out porn and masturbation because its just leading to more and more chasing thrills and dopamine gratification of novel sex encounters.

P.s.last year ia ctually got a 9-5 just to keep myself more busy, do more things, meet more people ,etc..how did that turn out? I ended up meeting and talking to like 6-7 diff women there and sleepign with 3 of them. when i got fired due to one girls bitterness about finding out i left the job with another girl one night.. it basically outed me as a womanizer because oen of my best friends told everyone in our department what happened lol ... some of us really live this womanizing/player lifestyle... and the craziest part of it all is i have 3 beautiful ass plates i have sex with at least once a week.. sex addiction is real

 

[Hamurabimbi]

no. pre-Covid, I was working 60 hours/week. didn't really negatively affect much. though not really sustainable long-term. Sleep was sacrificed.

 

[SW15]

I find a 60 hours a week job to be devastating for opportunity, physique, and maintaining the correct mindset.

If a man works 60 hours a week, he likely does not have good habits around diet and fitness to get the physique of a top tier man. He's likely to fall into the normie category of looks there. Being normie leads to scarcity.

I see where the mindset problems would happen.

Conceptually, if you were a 10/10 male but had 15 minutes a week free to date, you have as much scarcity as anyone. Lack of free time creates scarcity of opportunity and therefore options and sex. When you do get your opportunities, you are often too drained to really make the most of them.

All of this makes sense.

On the flip side, there's something about being a brooding guy in a downtown bar that women like. I pulled more than I would have thought when I was in my darkest place, although more BPDs per capita than when I was healthier.

In 2015, Roosh wrote that women in their primes prefer sex with damaged men.

Women In Their Prime Prefer Sex With Damaged Men

 

[Smooth_texter]

My career has required frequent out of town work travel. It has been much more helpful in dating / mating than it has been hurtful.

Good to hear that there are jobs that actually aid a person in meeting women. Is it a corporate related job?
I am working almost entirely remotely, which is a hindrance.

 

[Smooth_texter]

I think a lot of guys (most) in the western world feel this to an extent. Depends on the Job, but with assumption of typical rat race 9-5 office job I'd say yes. You gotta make an effort to get out there

Seems relevant ↓

The new archetype Roman( the average guy that has trouble finding women)

This deserves it's own thread. I will copy some posts from earlier this week so I dont have to repeat things or even miss and leave out crucial information.

www.sosuave.net

My job is 9-6, and if decide to work from the company premise, I have another 2 hours of public transportation (that is why I do it remotely, and go to the office once a week, rarely more often).

 

[Smooth_texter]

I agree with you.



My sense is that your suburban location is likely a bigger problem than your job, unless you are working 50+ hours weekly. Then you would have two near equally significant problems. Swipe apps are also a large part of your problem too.

When you consider large cities, men need to live in neighborhoods with a significant concentration of unmarried people. That's the only way a man can have a strong chance in a bigger city. Suburban areas near large cities are mainly attached people or divorced moms staying in the same school district for their children. The two common attached groups in the suburbs are Empty Nesters (couples who moved to the suburbs for raising their now grown children) or those with children under 18. Both married moms and divorced moms exist in the suburbs.



You will need to make some sort of significant change. Your current path in unsustainable. You'll need to change your job, change your neighborhood, change your method of meeting women, or assess/change your relational goals.

Hi SW.

Both are a hindrance.

- Work wise
Last week, I worked 12 hrs on Wednesday, and 13hrs on Thursday. Friday had regular hours. On Saturday I was basically recovering and spent the day not wanting to see people, basically I was a couch potato/vegetable.
- Location
A. Being at a good location saves time and creates convenience. One of my best friends is literally within walking distance of one of the best piano bars in my city, and one of the best cafes. My situation is opposite. The women who I went on dates with for the last 6 months either directly commented or hinted that I was "far from downtown"
B. The suburbs and the local community around me - here there are actually young families with both partners in their early thirties, with either a baby or a small child. So it is a safe bet to say that women here are off the market. I am basically an outcast here, since I have not started a family. I moved here as the housing was affordable (and there is peace and quiet, after a long day at work).
- Meeting women - OLD has supplied me with damaged women aged 35+. Some were single moms. I am fully aware that this is suboptimal at best. I think that I have improved a lot my game and have built a solid foundation, but I struggle to find a new funnel that feeds me women.


Realistic action plan:
1. Location - I have just bought my flat in 2021, finished it last year and moved in. I will not be relocation or paying extra money to live downtown, just to be easier to pick up modern women.
2. Job - I just landed this new job, at a good role and in a great company, compared to the average employer in my country. This is the kind of opportunity for which hundreds of people here compete, so it would be hard to replace. Maybe there would be 2-3 employers that are better than this one. I will not be changing the employer in the near future.
3. Meeting women - I would need to take on hobbies, but only on the weekends, or at least initially. Also, I would need to dedicate time to either day game sessions downtown on Saturdays and Sundays, or at clubs on Friday or Saturday night.

Neverthless, I agree with you that I need to make drstic changes, and have been thinking about that for a while now. I literally feel trapped in my current way of living and that life and opportunities bypass me.


Regards,
Smooth_texter

 

[Smooth_texter]

Conceptually, if you were a 10/10 male but had 15 minutes a week free to date, you have as much scarcity as anyone. Lack of free time creates scarcity of opportunity and therefore options and sex. When you do get your opportunities, you are often too drained to really make the most of them. I find a 60 hours a week job to be devastating for opportunity, physique, and maintaining the correct mindset. On the flip side, there's something about being a brooding guy in a downtown bar that women like. I pulled more than I would have thought when I was in my darkest place, although more BPDs per capita than when I was healthier.

Gym-wise, I have time to go only on the weekend, usually once. Which we know is not really enough. However, I will try to go very early before work, as soon as it becomes a bit warmer here. My Job schedule is pretty random at times and I cannot be sure that I would be able to work out right after work.

Regarding the second point - I fully agree. Women can sense and are attracted to a guy that has been around enough clubs or women. If you have been doing this a lot, you become a lot smoother, find out what works best on women, know more people etc. Opposed to a guy that deals with Excel spreadsheets all day and is semi socially retarded.

 

[EyeBRollin]

Realistic action plan:
1. Location - I have just bought my flat in 2021, finished it last year and moved in. I will not be relocation or paying extra money to live downtown, just to be easier to pick up modern women.

For younger girls <25, I’d say buy a rental property in a college town. You’ll see a ton of prime age women when you go there to manage.

 

[Smooth_texter]

Some good threads on the topic. I wrote the second one.

**** Corporate America slavery

A friend asked me to reflect on leaving corporate america a year ago: “How do you feel now that you've had some time?” My response: I feel like corporate work is retarded. Especially after reading the book “Sapiens”, it seems history repeats itself in a cycle of humanity overall improving at...

www.sosuave.net

Your corporate high status job (banking, wall street, finance, law, medicine, accounting) is destroying your SMV

If you are here then you value being attractive to women and having options in your choice of women, whatever the ultimate goal might be. Here is why the short term boost to your SMV from a well paying, high status job is the opposite of consistent, long term success with women: Looks: 1. Long...

www.sosuave.net

While I agree and have read a lot about the topic and capitalism as a whole since my early twenties, I do not have any realistic alternatives. My parents have also been working for companies and were not entrepreneurs.

I also have had the same problem as @SW15 - I graduated HS in 2007. I went to college and started working in 2009. Basically at the lowest point of the previous recession. There were a lot of compromises on my side regarding compensation, just to be able to work for good companies. This basically took a lot of time to fix and by the time I had somewhat decent income, I was already 30 years old.

 

[Jake_Gyllenhaal69]

I also live in the suburbs of a large city, far from downtown and the popular venues, so basically my only options are swipe apps.

Stopped reading after this. Your logistics are dog shvt, fix them. My sex life improved 200% just by moving to inside the city vs trying to go into the city for dates from the burbs.

 

[SW15]

Stopped reading after this. Your logistics are dog shvt, fix them. My sex life improved 200% just by moving to inside the city vs trying to go into the city for dates from the burbs.

I agreed with this point earlier in the thread.

Being at a good location saves time and creates convenience. One of my best friends is literally within walking distance of one of the best piano bars in my city, and one of the best cafes. My situation is opposite. The women who I went on dates with for the last 6 months either directly commented or hinted that I was "far from downtown"

Yes, and @Jake_Gyllenhaal69 said this too. Your logistics are dog shiit.

I am surprised that you got some swipe app dates given your logistics. Women have abundance on the swipe apps. Why would they waste time on a geographically undesirable guy? The best case scenario with most desirable single women given your logistics is a "one date, no sex, no second date" interaction. A 21-32 year old single woman who is childless isn't going to be interested in some man living in a family-centric suburban neighborhood.

B. The suburbs and the local community around me - here there are actually young families with both partners in their early thirties, with either a baby or a small child. So it is a safe bet to say that women here are off the market. I am basically an outcast here, since I have not started a family. I moved here as the housing was affordable (and there is peace and quiet, after a long day at work).

That's a fairly typical suburb. I can name suburbs near me that are a lot like that. I have people in my local area social circle who are in their 30s, in a suburban single family house, and are either pregnant or have an infant/toddler.

Meeting women - OLD has supplied me with damaged women aged 35+. Some were single moms. I am fully aware that this is suboptimal at best. I think that I have improved a lot my game and have built a solid foundation, but I struggle to find a new funnel that feeds me women.

This is expected. The women on apps closest to your home, where you are likely swiping from, are far more likely to be single moms. The apps aren't going to work for you in your location if you desire to get childless women.

Realistic action plan:
1. Location - I have just bought my flat in 2021, finished it last year and moved in. I will not be relocation or paying extra money to live downtown, just to be easier to pick up modern women.
2. Job - I just landed this new job, at a good role and in a great company, compared to the average employer in my country. This is the kind of opportunity for which hundreds of people here compete, so it would be hard to replace. Maybe there would be 2-3 employers that are better than this one. I will not be changing the employer in the near future.
3. Meeting women - I would need to take on hobbies, but only on the weekends, or at least initially. Also, I would need to dedicate time to either day game sessions downtown on Saturdays and Sundays, or at clubs on Friday or Saturday night.

Neverthless, I agree with you that I need to make drstic changes, and have been thinking about that for a while now. I literally feel trapped in my current way of living and that life and opportunities bypass me.

When I consider your realistic action plan, I see more hesitation and excuses rather than a commitment to action.

I can understand not wanting to change jobs with the current economy.

You are probably going to have to change location or drastically change your social life.

If you don't change jobs and don't change location, your only viable dating strategy is to meet women through your existing social circle. Women who are strangers that you meet will not be impressed with your suburban location that is far from downtown. If you can get social circle introductions, those social circle introductions might be more willing to look past your location if you have other qualities whereas stranger women are not going to be motivated to look past that. Since you are using SoSuave, I doubt you currently have a good social circle.

You currently can't devote enough time either hobbies, day game, or night game. All 3 of those take up a lot of time.

If you keep your job and move to a better location near more single people, that's your only hope in terms of approaching.

Apps are likely to also be a waste of time for you, as they are for the majority of men.

I also have had the same problem as @SW15 - I graduated HS in 2007. I went to college and started working in 2009. Basically at the lowest point of the previous recession. There were a lot of compromises on my side regarding compensation, just to be able to work for good companies. This basically took a lot of time to fix and by the time I had somewhat decent income, I was already 30 years old.

Many people who finished their education around the time of the late 2000s recession had some significant issues.

Did you drop out of college in 2009 or did you only go to a 2 year college?

I finished my master's level degree right before Lehman collapsed in 2008. I got destroyed in the 2008-2009 job market. I had to take a huge discount to get employed.

 

[Smooth_texter]

I agreed with this point earlier in the thread.



Yes, and @Jake_Gyllenhaal69 said this too. Your logistics are dog shiit.

I am surprised that you got some swipe app dates given your logistics. Women have abundance on the swipe apps. Why would they waste time on a geographically undesirable guy? The best case scenario with most desirable single women given your logistics is a "one date, no sex, no second date" interaction. A 21-32 year old single woman who is childless isn't going to be interested in some man living in a family-centric suburban neighborhood.



That's a fairly typical suburb. I can name suburbs near me that are a lot like that. I have people in my local area social circle who are in their 30s, in a suburban single family house, and are either pregnant or have an infant/toddler.



This is expected. The women on apps closest to your home, where you are likely swiping from, are far more likely to be single moms. The apps aren't going to work for you in your location if you desire to get childless women.



When I consider your realistic action plan, I see more hesitation and excuses rather than a commitment to action.

I can understand not wanting to change jobs with the current economy.

You are probably going to have to change location or drastically change your social life.

If you don't change jobs and don't change location, your only viable dating strategy is to meet women through your existing social circle. Women who are strangers that you meet will not be impressed with your suburban location that is far from downtown. If you can get social circle introductions, those social circle introductions might be more willing to look past your location if you have other qualities whereas stranger women are not going to be motivated to look past that. Since you are using SoSuave, I doubt you currently have a good social circle.

You currently can't devote enough time either hobbies, day game, or night game. All 3 of those take up a lot of time.

If you keep your job and move to a better location near more single people, that's your only hope in terms of approaching.

Apps are likely to also be a waste of time for you, as they are for the majority of men.



Many people who finished their education around the time of the late 2000s recession had some significant issues.

Did you drop out of college in 2009 or did you only go to a 2 year college?

I finished my master's level degree right before Lehman collapsed in 2008. I got destroyed in the 2008-2009 job market. I had to take a huge discount to get employed.

While I agree on the logistics part (and have pointed that out myself in the first post) - I have already bought and own the place, so this is constant, not a variable.

Regarding OLD - the majority of women with whom I was on dates were 35-40. I have lost at least 6-7 already interested for a date women under the age of 27 due to not having Instagram. I think that if you hook her emotionally, logistics won't be an issue for a FWB, or a once a week situationship. Regular relationships are a different beast though.

Regarding my social circle - I am on the same boat as the majority of the 25+ years old men. Meaning that the social circles that I was in either broke completely or we gather extremely rarely (no actual difference between the two). As difficult as it is, my best solution for this would be to take on new hobbies and befriend other 30+ years old single men (since we would have more in common).

Regarding meeting women - since I have started working a new job, I will put in the work in order to become efficient and reduce or fully eliminate (as far as I can overtime). This would free up at least partially my schedule, which would be great during the late spring/summer.
I could start going to the office more regularly, and just chill for an hour or two downtown, after work (this is where the new hobbies/dedicated cold approach sessions might come in handy). Also, although this is family dominated suburb, there are single millennial women here and there (not ideal), so I could try to scope the area.


And regarding the education question - I was both working and studying. I finished my Bachelor's degree in 2011, and my Masters' in 2013. Started working in 2009, but by the time I was earning somewhat ok money, it was 2017 (I was 29 already). So I shrugged off many opportunities for hobbies and meeting women due to financial insecurity back in my 20s.

 

[Solomon]

Stopped reading after this. Your logistics are dog shvt, fix them. My sex life improved 200% just by moving to inside the city vs trying to go into the city for dates from the burbs.

This, logistics are so underrated on this site, There is a building an old buddy of mine use to live that's where he met all the girls
It was a building with nothing but successful people both men and women. Who were young they would often hang out,bbq and it had a swimming pool filled with hot chicks in the summertime. Even if you live 30 minutes outside of the city people know that it's a "Instagram hot spot"wheree hot (young)chicks wanna be seen because the place is associated with success plus it was right in the city 5 minutes from all the popular bars and clubs Someone is always throwing an afterparty 7 days a week no matter the time of year

This isn't in NYC or LA that I'm talking about but in a small town in the midwest

 

[handle]

I think it is industry-dependent. For many years I worked in an intense white-collar industry with a lot of crunch time and long hours at deadlines. Insane parties once milestones were hit, and if you were in the biz you could party at other companies too. Sort of an informal party circuit throughout the city. Maintaining an LTR outside the industry was a challenge but random hookups were pretty easy. Felt a bit like being in college.
On the flipside I know people who work in certain tech roles where the social scene barely had a pulse.
I also agree with other posters that the location of your office is a huge factor. Working at some firm out in the boonies is not the same as being downtown.

 

[SW15]

And regarding the education question - I was both working and studying. I finished my Bachelor's degree in 2011, and my Masters' in 2013. Started working in 2009, but by the time I was earning somewhat ok money, it was 2017 (I was 29 already). So I shrugged off many opportunities for hobbies and meeting women due to financial insecurity back in my 20s.

By the time you finished your bachelor's and master's level degrees, the economy was in better shape. I finished my MBA in the 2007-08 school year. Graduating in 2008 and looking for a job in 2008 and 2009 were brutal. I had to take a job at a pay rate well below what a newly graduated MBA should be making. My earnings and career progression in 2023 are still impacted by my 2008 graduation date and the job market of 2008-09.