Men should be even more aware of their age than women

[DreamAgain]

There is a lot of dialogue propagated out there that guys should use their twenties to accumulate resources, develop their careers, date around, basically postpone looking for a serious relationship until their 30s.

I want to dispel this as a dangerous and outright wrong idea if you are serious about finding a good wife and future mother of your children.

Simply put, the longer you wait to find a good woman, the chances are lower you will find one, simply because there aren't too many around. So, you may counter with the point: But DreamAgain, I'll just date younger, with more resources vs. the younger guys I'm at a competitive advantage, my SMV is higher, what is the problem with this?

The problem with this is precisely because the relationship becomes transactional: You are dangling the carrot of resources to a younger woman, and she is trading her youthful best years to secure those resources.

This is quite different from any notion of love and romanticism one should hopefully believe if they are choosing a woman to be his wife and mother of his children. Quite different from a plate, yes your 30s are an ideal time for acquiring plates, perhaps that is the whole purpose of this website and this post will fall on deaf ears.

The ideal time you should look for a wife is actually right around college or immediately after, 1-3 years as you start your professional career.

Here, you are still providing the hope of being a successful provider for the family, assuming you are well employed, have good grades with a promising chosen major. However, the onus is on the girl to take a leap of faith and believe you will have the sufficient resources down the road to do it. Because she cannot be sure of this, she still has to stake the majority of her decision to be with you on more fundamental parts of attraction: Does she like how you look, does she find you funny, does she enjoy your company, etc. This is the most natural way that bonding happens and the most healthy as well. I also argue it will bring you the most happiness, because you know most genuinely the girl likes you, well, for you.

In essence, the longer you postpone your decision to settle down and pick the "winner" so to speak, the smaller your pool of earnest candidates is you can trust, and of those earnest candidates, they are even smaller for girls that are actually worth choosing for the long haul.

How foolish would a man feel, toiling all these years, enduring crap in the workplace, studying so hard, only to give these resources away to a girl who tricked him into his affection?

Sure, detractors may say well never get married, never have kids.

I fundamentally believe a wife and family play an integral part in a man's life, and finding fulfillment professionally and through hobbies can only take his happiness so far. The same with plates. They will provide temporary physical pleasure but can never replace the love of a loyal wife and seeing your children flourish in the world.

 

[bat soup]

There is a lot of dialogue propagated out there that guys should use their twenties to accumulate resources, develop their careers, date around, basically postpone looking for a serious relationship until their 30s.

I want to dispel this as a dangerous and outright wrong idea if you are serious about finding a good wife and future mother of your children.

Simply put, the longer you wait to find a good woman, the chances are lower you will find one, simply because there aren't too many around. So, you may counter with the point: But DreamAgain, I'll just date younger, with more resources vs. the younger guys I'm at a competitive advantage, my SMV is higher, what is the problem with this?

The problem with this is precisely because the relationship becomes transactional: You are dangling the carrot of resources to a younger woman, and she is trading her youthful best years to secure those resources.

This is quite different from any notion of love and romanticism one should hopefully believe if they are choosing a woman to be his wife and mother of his children. Quite different from a plate, yes your 30s are an ideal time for acquiring plates, perhaps that is the whole purpose of this website and this post will fall on deaf ears.

The ideal time you should look for a wife is actually right around college or immediately after, 1-3 years as you start your professional career.

Here, you are still providing the hope of being a successful provider for the family, assuming you are well employed, have good grades with a promising chosen major. However, the onus is on the girl to take a leap of faith and believe you will have the sufficient resources down the road to do it. Because she cannot be sure of this, she still has to stake the majority of her decision to be with you on more fundamental parts of attraction: Does she like how you look, does she find you funny, does she enjoy your company, etc. This is the most natural way that bonding happens and the most healthy as well. I also argue it will bring you the most happiness, because you know most genuinely the girl likes you, well, for you.

In essence, the longer you postpone your decision to settle down and pick the "winner" so to speak, the smaller your pool of earnest candidates is you can trust, and of those earnest candidates, they are even smaller for girls that are actually worth choosing for the long haul.

How foolish would a man feel, toiling all these years, enduring crap in the workplace, studying so hard, only to give these resources away to a girl who tricked him into his affection?

Sure, detractors may say well never get married, never have kids.

I fundamentally believe a wife and family play an integral part in a man's life, and finding fulfillment professionally and through hobbies can only take his happiness so far. The same with plates. They will provide temporary physical pleasure but can never replace the love of a loyal wife and seeing your children flourish in the world.

This is true. Just look at the state of Rooshv. If you're looking for a potential wife, don't expect her to suddenly appear at the age of 40 as soon as you finish your 20-year long European sex tour.

 

[HaleyBaron]

The problem with this is precisely because the relationship becomes transactional: You are dangling the carrot of resources to a younger woman, and she is trading her youthful best years to secure those resources.

All relationships with women is transactional. The issue is how much emotion the woman puts behind it. And I counter: why do I care? If I am 40 and I get an 18 year old, I know what I want from her and she knows what she wants. Nothing else to it.

 

[DreamAgain]

All relationships with women is transactional. The issue is how much emotion the woman puts behind it. And I counter: why do I care? If I am 40 and I get an 18 year old, I know what I want from her and she knows what she wants. Nothing else to it.

All of them are transactional for you. Maybe they always were, that would be sad if true.

 

[HaleyBaron]

All of them are transactional for you. Maybe they always were, that would be sad if true.

There's nothing sad about it. Think about it, why do I have to depend on a woman for emotion? She's around for making kids and being there for me to stick my d*ck into once in a while. Men get their emotional needs from their friends, clan, and children. If you have neither of those, then it makes sense that you care how a woman feels about you.

Btw, young women can still feel things for older men. Emotions are still emotions at the end of the day.

 

[Pandora]

Idk man. A relationship between a 25 yr old female and 25 yr old male is often very chaotic and unhealthy. Do you remember how nuts the 25 yr old women were when we were young? They were hardly marriage material. They were focused on adventures and travel and parties aka CC.

Also a 25 yr old man has no money and does not have the masculine frame to handle a 25 yr old woman at peak SMV.

Thirdly, couples that marry young divorce at an obscenly high rate.

Fourthy, a very young man has not experienced anything yet. He has not even travelled the world and smashed exotic chicks etcs. He is just coming into his own. Is it wise for him to trade all his future adventures in for the boredom of marriage? Who knows...i guess its up to that individual person. Pick your poison.

 

[Velasco]

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1618379821113016321

 

[DreamAgain]

There's nothing sad about it. Think about it, why do I have to depend on a woman for emotion? She's around for making kids and being there for me to stick my d*ck into once in a while. Men get their emotional needs from their friends, clan, and children. If you have neither of those, then it makes sense that you care how a woman feels about you.

Btw, young women can still feel things for older men. Emotions are still emotions at the end of the day.

Well, I suppose if the kids don't know that Dad only considers Mom to be a warm convenient hole from time to time, then it can't hurt them.

 

[DreamAgain]

Idk man. A relationship between a 25 yr old female and 25 yr old male is often very chaotic and unhealthy. Do you remember how nuts the 25 yr old women were when we were young? They were hardly marriage material. They were focused on adventures and travel and parties aka CC.

Also a 25 yr old man has no money and does not have the masculine frame to handle a 25 yr old woman at peak SMV.

Thirdly, couples that marry young divorce at an obscenly high rate.

Fourthy, a very young man has not experienced anything yet. He has not even travelled the world and smashed exotic chicks etcs. He is just coming into his own. Is it wise for him to trade all his future adventures in for the boredom of marriage? Who knows...i guess its up to that individual person. Pick your poison.

The women are nuts because society is messed up, and men make the society. So really, men are to blame for the current state of things.

Not you or me individually, but as a collective.

A 25 year old peak SMV social media thot who's fishing for resources, yeah a 25 year old man without those resources is not the target for this woman.

 

[Jake_Gyllenhaal69]

Personally, 18-30(depends on career path), focus on college/skilled trade or whatever you need to have to make a decent living with stability. If you have the capital & resources to start your own business then go ahead, but most men do not.

Once you get your foot in the door outside school/grad school/whatever post uni program, you can start dabbling your feet into women. If you are trying to become a doctor or lawyer, then yeah you will have to wait a bit longer because you have extra school.

My biggest regret in life is majoring in business so I could have an easy life at hot girl uni to party and shvt. Most young men cannot control their SMV in college or HS so it is pointless to obsess over pvssy during this age.

 

[SW15]

The ideal time you should look for a wife is actually right around college or immediately after, 1-3 years as you start your professional career.

Here, you are still providing the hope of being a successful provider for the family, assuming you are well employed, have good grades with a promising chosen major. However, the onus is on the girl to take a leap of faith and believe you will have the sufficient resources down the road to do it. Because she cannot be sure of this, she still has to stake the majority of her decision to be with you on more fundamental parts of attraction: Does she like how you look, does she find you funny, does she enjoy your company, etc. This is the most natural way that bonding happens and the most healthy as well. I also argue it will bring you the most happiness, because you know most genuinely the girl likes you, well, for you.

I agree with this. It rarely plays out like this. For those that do attend college, most relationships with college-era girlfriends are over within 3-5 years of graduation.

When I first moved to my current city in the early 2010s, I met a new college graduate (he became a good friend in time) who had just moved to this city with his college-era girlfriend. She was about a "7" at this time, borderline cute-hot. They were both in their early 20s and had been together for one year. They stayed together over time and have now been together over a decade, they got married, and had kids together. Around 2-3 years into that relationship, there was a time when he did consider whether or not he wanted to stay with her or test the market elsewhere. He knew that if he dumped her, she'd be picked up elsewhere quickly and he didn't want to take that risk. At the time, she was in her mid-20s and had huge market value.

Likewise, she took a leap of faith on him. He was a good bet to realize potential and he did. She could have ridden the carousel and ended up a 35 or 40 year old woman with a big notch count, but she kept with her college-era boyfriend and kept her notch count down.

While their relationship has lasted a long time, there's no saying if it will continue to last or if it has even been good in recent years. The only metric is its longevity.

In essence, the longer you postpone your decision to settle down and pick the "winner" so to speak, the smaller your pool of earnest candidates is you can trust, and of those earnest candidates, they are even smaller for girls that are actually worth choosing for the long haul.

How foolish would a man feel, toiling all these years, enduring crap in the workplace, studying so hard, only to give these resources away to a girl who tricked him into his affection?

Sure, detractors may say well never get married, never have kids.

I fundamentally believe a wife and family play an integral part in a man's life, and finding fulfillment professionally and through hobbies can only take his happiness so far. The same with plates. They will provide temporary physical pleasure but can never replace the love of a loyal wife and seeing your children flourish in the world.

I feel this big time as a childless 39 year old male.

Simply put, the longer you wait to find a good woman, the chances are lower you will find one, simply because there aren't too many around. So, you may counter with the point: But DreamAgain, I'll just date younger, with more resources vs. the younger guys I'm at a competitive advantage, my SMV is higher, what is the problem with this?

The problem with this is precisely because the relationship becomes transactional: You are dangling the carrot of resources to a younger woman, and she is trading her youthful best years to secure those resources.

That type of transactional relationship is not likely to last long enough to raise a child to 18.

There's nothing sad about it. Think about it, why do I have to depend on a woman for emotion? She's around for making kids and being there for me to stick my d*ck into once in a while. Men get their emotional needs from their friends, clan, and children. If you have neither of those, then it makes sense that you care how a woman feels about you.

As a man, if you stay unattached or a serial monogamist into your mid-30s and beyond, your male friends will mostly disappear due to marriages and often marriages with children. Married men, especially married men with children, do not have much time for their unmarried and childless friends. Counting on male friends to meet your emotional needs is not very realistic.

 

[HaleyBaron]

Well, I suppose if the kids don't know that Dad only considers Mom to be a warm convenient hole from time to time, then it can't hurt them.

Children respect their dads more if they aren't whipped by the mother. Even child psychology has determined this. If he's a p*ssy, he can't protect them in their mind. That's why kids get into "My dad can beat up your dad" arguments in school.

 

[Jake_Gyllenhaal69]

As a man, if you stay unattached or a serial monogamist into your mid-30s and beyond, your male friends will mostly disappear due to marriages and often marriages with children. Married men, especially married men with children, do not have much time for their unmarried and childless friends. Counting on male friends to meet your emotional needs is not very realistic.

They also start to see you as "a bad influence" to their marriage or relationship and stop inviting you to things. Serial monogamist women can get away with this by just appearing as troubled hopeless romantics in distress.

 

[DreamAgain]

Children respect their dads more if they aren't whipped by the mother. Even child psychology has determined this. If he's a p*ssy, he can't protect them in their mind. That's why kids get into "My dad can beat up your dad" arguments in school.

Dude, what? I'm not saying be a doormat for your wife. Be firm when needed, show her the appropriate amount of affection when needed.

The problem is, if your wife sees you as a walking ATM, well no duh you won't respect her or love her. Do you see people expressing their affection to the ATM when they go to the bank? No, they collect what they came to there to collect and go about their day.

 

[HaleyBaron]

As a man, if you stay unattached or a serial monogamist into your mid-30s and beyond, your male friends will mostly disappear due to marriages and often marriages with children. Married men, especially married men with children, do not have much time for their unmarried and childless friends. Counting on male friends to meet your emotional needs is not very realistic.

Technically, I come from the school of thought that I don't need emotional support from anyone else. But I know there's other men who don't like being alone, so having a business or even doing community activities is a way to get that if they really want to. Sports, clubs, etc.

 

[DreamAgain]

They also start to see you as "a bad influence" to their marriage or relationship and stop inviting you to things. Serial monogamist women can get away with this by just appearing as troubled hopeless romantics in distress.

I don't blame them. I know some men at work who are single, in their 50s, likely never married, and they have many psychological problems. They have unpleasant personalities.

When you don't know someone, you go by averages and likelihoods. Sure, not all men will be like this, but a stranger is a stranger until they're not.

 

[oliver109]

I don't blame them. I know some men at work who are single, in their 50s, likely never married, and they have many psychological problems. They have unpleasant personalities.

When you don't know someone, you go by averages and likelihoods. Sure, not all men will be like this, but a stranger is a stranger until they're not.

Being single for a long time takes it's toll, i feel for them though unfortunately i don't really know what the solution is.

 

[pipeman84]

I think OP makes a couple of wrong assumptions:
1. that guys purposefully avoid a serious relationship up until their mid 30s. I don't think that's true for most cases, certainly not for me. Firstly, masculinity is about going out and exploring the world, gaining experience, accumulate resources, become a leader. Secondly, some guys do find a good girl in high-school or college. But for the many that don't it's a combination of lack of good girls with their lack of interest in settling down (which is natural).

2. that guys reach their mid 30s, have explored and conquered the world and now that they are ready to get married, they're too dumb to differentiate between true love and transactional arrangement. I don't think that's true in the majority of cases....they're aware of what's going on, but will just settle for mediocrity, just as many who marry in their 20s do...they don't do it out of true love but because of pressure from family/social circle or fear they won't find anyone better.

 

[Ricky]

So may thoughts on all of this. I think there is some benefit to waiting to marry until your 30's anyways.

The mathematics of finding someone worth your time is non-trivial. You can't base LTR decisions purely on looks although looks are a factor.

I ended up with an HB8 in my opinion. She was in her late 20's when we met. I had been with many women by this point.

I was in several short and several long term relationships by this point.

 

[SW15]

Children respect their dads more if they aren't whipped by the mother. Even child psychology has determined this. If he's a p*ssy, he can't protect them in their mind. That's why kids get into "My dad can beat up your dad" arguments in school.

My dad worked a lot and did not spend much time with me up until my parents' divorce when I was 15.

Unfortunately, when my dad was around, he said some very beta things to me. He was into the whole "happy wife, happy life" narrative. We know that's complete bullshiit but he was saying that whole Baby Boomer beta male thing. Beta stuff could work for Boomers. For Millennials, betas were not desired by the time we reached sexual maturity circa 2000. My mom also believed in "blue pill, nice guy" stuff. I had to do a lot of de-programming from my mom's and dad's beliefs.

As a man, if you stay unattached or a serial monogamist into your mid-30s and beyond, your male friends will mostly disappear due to marriages and often marriages with children. Married men, especially married men with children, do not have much time for their unmarried and childless friends. Counting on male friends to meet your emotional needs is not very realistic.

They also start to see you as "a bad influence" to their marriage or relationship and stop inviting you to things. Serial monogamist women can get away with this by just appearing as troubled hopeless romantics in distress.

Most social circles are filled with people with a "blue pill" ideology towards romantic relationships.

There's a difficult social dynamic that exists between unattached/serial monogamist men and their long term attached/married friends.

Neither side really wants to be around the other. Serial monogamist men can be invited to some couples stuff with married and long term couples. That's a best case scenario. Unattached men find gatherings where it's all couples to be very uncomfortable and the couples don't really want the unattached men around in most cases either.

These problems also compound when the married couples start having children. Unattached, childless men don't want to be around infants, toddlers, or early elementary school aged children.

Married men also have less time for one-on-one male type activities like bowling, tennis, fishing, golfing, or hunting with their unattached/serial monogamist male friends.

Most "blue pill" social circles don't want unattached men around because of the "bad influence" factor. Unattached men are the least desired people in blue pill social circles, followed by the serial monogamist man who never commits. Unattached women and carousel riders are not as negatively perceived by most social circles.

wrong assumptions...that guys purposefully avoid a serious relationship up until their mid 30s.

Most men don't do this.

wrong assumptions...that guys reach their mid 30s, have explored and conquered the world and now that they are ready to get married, they're too dumb to differentiate between true love and transactional arrangement. I don't think that's true in the majority of cases....they're aware of what's going on, but will just settle for mediocrity, just as many who marry in their 20s do...they don't do it out of true love but because of pressure from family/social circle or fear they won't find anyone better.

Agree with this. Most 30 something men who are single ending up settling for whatever mediocre to subpar woman close to their own age that they can get. I think the fear they won't find anyone better is a more relevant factor than the pressure from family/social circle.