Dishonesty Question

[NickSavage]

(I've been lurking here for a while, but finally coming out of the shadows because I have some questions)

I have a plate that turned into a GF. There's more context to that, but the short story is that I'm not very good at avoiding exclusivity and a few other factors. The GF is great in many respects. Professional woman, makes solid 6 figures, attractive, plays sports, etc. Last weekend, however, something happened and it has negatively impacted my opinion of her. Although it's a fuzzy situation:

To explain, she plays a sport. She was very excited for me to go to watch her play, and of course, I was happy to. The game itself seemed to go pretty well, both women were evenly matched in terms of their skills, so the score was close the whole time and both women got very competitive with each other. TBH, I think she really wanted to win because I was there, and she wanted to impress me perhaps???

Anyway, the game was very close and when they came down to match point, she won but her competitor very loudly accused her of cheating and made a big deal out of it in front of everyone. Very embarrassing for her (less so for me since I don't normally hang out at this sports club). But it was very awkward and I wasn't sure how to even talk to her right after the match.

I don't know if she was cheating "per se". I was watching the game, but I couldn't tell from my vantage point. I think the sympathetic interpretation is that she was calling as many balls in her own favor as she could - which is not uncommon in competitive sports. On the other hand, I think she probably called some in her own favor that should have been called the other way. How deliberate was it? I don't know. But if I were to be honest with myself I'd say she went too far in her own favor based on what I saw.

Ok, so here's my ethical dilemma:

• If I considered her GF/Wife material, I would definitely be disappointed in her dishonesty and would be very suspicious of her even though her dishonesty was done for my benefit. But I'm never going to marry her or anyone else, and I'd really rather just spin plates. I'm only in an exclusive relationship because I'm terrible at avoiding them.
• If she's a plate, then is it a huge IOI for a woman to risk social blowback by cheating in a sports club she is socially invested in for my benefit?

What do you guys think of this? Should I consider her a plate and this is a positive sign in a weird way? Or because I'm exclusive with her, should I be applying an ethical consideration to this potential deceptive event as I would if I considered her a GF/Wife?

 

[Barrister]

You say she is a "plate turned GF" - did she actually ask about exclusivity? Or was this assumed?

I am guessing this a tennis match? You seem to be speculating and assuming she was dishonest - but have no clear evidence that she was "cheating." Yet you seem to be inclined to believe she was. Reading between the lines, it sounds like you just want a reason to dump her. This would be a pretty arbitrary thing to get hung up on IMO otherwise. Whenever people play sports they are going to do anything they can to win. Why you let the fact she called a few 50/50 balls in her own favor affect your opinion of her I have no idea.

Have you tried talking to her about this to see if she actually was cheating? And frankly, if you just aren't into her there is nothing wrong with that. Tell her it isn't working out and just move on.Considering her a plate isn't going to work though. She thinks you are bf/gf clearly - so you trying to get sparse time-wise and show up periodically to have sex won't fly.

 

[SW15]

If this was tennis, the person returning a shot or a serve calls balls in or out if there are not referees present. In most amateur/recreational tennis matches, there are not referees/line judges present.

I tend to play borderline balls when I play tennis.

Your gf can't call her own shots in or out, that's the responsibility of her opponent. Your girlfriend might have called some balls on the line and actually in play out and gotten some cheap points that way. Stuff like that happens all the time in amateur tennis.

Your girlfriend's tennis match would be an arbitrary reason to dump someone, especially since you don't present real evidence of cheating. It's not a great sign though.

Your biggest problem has nothing to do with your girlfriend's tennis hobby. Your biggest problem is your lack of frame. Read Iron Rules of Tomassi. Iron Rule #1 -- Frame is EVERYTHING.

The Iron Rules of Tomassi

One of the most influential books in my life has been The Rational Male by Rollo Tomassi. It’s a book I wish every man could read, and I…

medium.com

 

[BPH]

• If I considered her GF/Wife material, I would definitely be disappointed in her dishonesty and would be very suspicious of her even though her dishonesty was done for my benefit. But I'm never going to marry her or anyone else, and I'd really rather just spin plates. I'm only in an exclusive relationship because I'm terrible at avoiding them.
• If she's a plate, then is it a huge IOI for a woman to risk social blowback by cheating in a sports club she is socially invested in for my benefit?/QUOTE]

Read the bolded parts then tell me why you even care.

 

[NickSavage]

Thank you for the thoughtful responses. I think you guys all have very good points. I've allowed the relationship to get past plates and so the reality is that I'm the BF of someone I preferred to be a plate.

Regarding the "proof" or whatever of cheating at tennis (yes, tennis). That's kindof my point. I couldn't point to any particular ball she was either calling or challenging as being incorrect. I was sitting in a position that made it hard to tell. It was the plurality of circumstances seemed to lean very heavily toward the fact that she was "aggressively advocating" in circumstances where I thought she might have been in the wrong and should have relented. Sometimes, she was clearly right though, and I think if the match hadn't been close it wouldn't have mattered.

I guess my point is that I do consider sportsmanship to be an indicator of someone's character. Maybe if there were an open position called "Girlfriend" in my life, this is an excuse to DQ her? But I think what you guys are suggesting is that if I'm thinking about DQ'ing over a tennis match, then that's probably where my head is at anyway...

hmmm

 

[The Duke]

(I've been lurking here for a while, but finally coming out of the shadows because I have some questions)

I have a plate that turned into a GF. There's more context to that, but the short story is that I'm not very good at avoiding exclusivity and a few other factors. The GF is great in many respects. Professional woman, makes solid 6 figures, attractive, plays sports, etc. Last weekend, however, something happened and it has negatively impacted my opinion of her. Although it's a fuzzy situation:

To explain, she plays a sport. She was very excited for me to go to watch her play, and of course, I was happy to. The game itself seemed to go pretty well, both women were evenly matched in terms of their skills, so the score was close the whole time and both women got very competitive with each other. TBH, I think she really wanted to win because I was there, and she wanted to impress me perhaps???

Anyway, the game was very close and when they came down to match point, she won but her competitor very loudly accused her of cheating and made a big deal out of it in front of everyone. Very embarrassing for her (less so for me since I don't normally hang out at this sports club). But it was very awkward and I wasn't sure how to even talk to her right after the match.

I don't know if she was cheating "per se". I was watching the game, but I couldn't tell from my vantage point. I think the sympathetic interpretation is that she was calling as many balls in her own favor as she could - which is not uncommon in competitive sports. On the other hand, I think she probably called some in her own favor that should have been called the other way. How deliberate was it? I don't know. But if I were to be honest with myself I'd say she went too far in her own favor based on what I saw.

Ok, so here's my ethical dilemma:

• If I considered her GF/Wife material, I would definitely be disappointed in her dishonesty and would be very suspicious of her even though her dishonesty was done for my benefit. But I'm never going to marry her or anyone else, and I'd really rather just spin plates. I'm only in an exclusive relationship because I'm terrible at avoiding them.
• If she's a plate, then is it a huge IOI for a woman to risk social blowback by cheating in a sports club she is socially invested in for my benefit?

What do you guys think of this? Should I consider her a plate and this is a positive sign in a weird way? Or because I'm exclusive with her, should I be applying an ethical consideration to this potential deceptive event as I would if I considered her a GF/Wife?

A woman that can't be fair in a game, will not be fair with you in a serious Long term relationship. If you judged correctly then this is a serious red flag. It means she puts herself first regardless of morals and values. She should be plate material/girlfriend only.

 

[NickSavage]

Ok, but what about the other question...

When you are just straight spinning plates, how deep do you get with women in terms of concerns about their character and ethics, etc.?

The reason I ask is that it is hard for me to feel close with someone if I don't feel like she's a nice (read: good) person. I mean, I just don't have a good time if I'm on a date with someone I don't respect. This woman is a high level Exec. She's an Alpha Female. I like women like that. Huge rush.

But obviously when you are talking about VP level women, you're going to run into this ****. Do you care?

 

[Stuffnu]

I’m struggling on what any of this has to do with you.
It was a competitive game. Emotions run high and questionable calls is common in every sport.
Personally, I would had said “now that you‘re done, why don’t we head back to my house and play a different game with a lot of contact”.
You remain impartial, non-judgmental and break any tension.

 

[BackInTheGame78]

Sounds like this is not much of anything other than her opponent being a sore loser, which is very common no matter what the age group is.

Unless you have some sort of proof or others have told you this is something commonplace with her.

In professional sports there is a saying "If you aren't cheating, you aren't trying". Players will look to get any possible edge they can on an opponent even if it is in a gray area or slightly crosses a line. It's not cheating unless you are caught.

The Houston Astros in MLB cheated during their World Series year in 2017 and got caught and there were serious repercussions for their actions involving suspensions and fines and people getting fired. You know what didn't happen tho? Them giving back the championship they won.

The greatest football coach that ever lived, Bill Belichick is a cheater. He has been caught doing all kinds of questionable things from bugging opponent locker rooms to filming opponent practice sessions to malfunctioning headsets for opponents, etc...The greatest QB ever in Tom Brady is a cheater. Lots of people do things to obtain edges in sports, I'm not sure this says anything about her even if true other than she is super competitive and wants to win.

 

[NorwegianDJ]

Nick, I read your post and quickly browsed your thread. I am now making a quick post before heading out. So excuse me.

Above all, it could be worth learning to communicate.
If this is indeed your girlfriend, the foundation of a relationship is that you are betting on each other.
Rupture is natural to any relationship and will always happen. What matters is how you deal with it.
If you are going to get flighty whenever something displeases you, then your relationships will remain fragile.
If you can consolidate your thoughts and emotions and bring them to the table in a way that is mindful of your partner, then you can work through discomfort and build a stronger relationship.

It seems like a question of what this relationship is to you.
I find it very weird that people on here take such distance from and disrespect the women they interact with.
If you act only in your own best interest, so will she. Nobody good stays around if you don't have their heart in mind.

Get to terms with what's important to you and decide from there.
Imagine yourself under such scrutiny from a partner.
Your attitude is yucky, but it is valid.
Yet, if there is such a great need to protect yourself so that you have to mentalize a tennis match and extrapolate it onto your own relationship, then perhaps this need for safety deserves some loving attention from your side.
Perchance save this energy for when something actually happens between the two of you.
Save it for yourself and use it to look deeply to heal your own wounds.

 

[SW15]

She should be plate material/girlfriend only.

That relates to Iron Rule of Tomassi #1 -- Frame is Everything. @NickSavage has a frame issue.

 

[The Duke]

I’m struggling on what any of this has to do with you.
It was a competitive game. Emotions run high and questionable calls is common in every sport.
Personally, I would had said “now that you‘re done, why don’t we head back to my house and play a different game with a lot of contact”.
You remain impartial, non-judgmental and break any tension.

So it's ok to cheat so you win?

 

[Dr.Suave]

Bro, you are fifty. If you rather have her as a plate you have to man up and take exclusivity off the table. Is she walks then so be it.

 

[NickSavage]

I think we can all agree I ****ed up by letting a plate become a GF.

And I understand that competitive sports assume that each player is going to push limits and advocate for themselves. Competitive people will always do this. No question, this woman isn't my first rodeo, and I'm competitive as well.

I wish there were a way to downgrade back to plate...

 

[Tilex]

No offense, but your mentality seems kinda feminine to me.
I think you rushed towards being judgemental too fast without seeing the bigger picture.
When people play amateur sports, they will say all kinds of things to insult the other person.
Sometimes it can sound playful, and other times it can sound dirty.

I'm gonna be 100% honest here.
It's not human nature to cheat at something with no incentive.
Usually when people play sports on an amateur level, they play for the love of the game. Nothing else.
On a professional level, there's an incentive to cheat because of record holding and rankings.

 

[BackInTheGame78]

No offense, but your mentality seems kinda feminine to me.
I think you rushed towards being judgemental too fast without seeing the bigger picture.
When people play amateur sports, they will say all kinds of things to insult the other person.
Sometimes it can sound playful, and other times it can sound dirty.

I'm gonna be 100% honest here.
It's not human nature to cheat at something with no incentive.
Usually when people play sports on an amateur level, they play for the love of the game. Nothing else.
On a professional level, there's an incentive to cheat because of record holding and rankings.

That just isn't true...people have gone to great lengths to cheat when nothing but pride and ego is on line.