You must create the opportunity with a woman if you want to get laid

[pipeman84]

@oldmanofthesea on this forum there are a couple guys who married virgins (Serenity and Colossus), Desdinova who has a LTR/married I don't remember exactly a girl who only had one guy before him, Atom Smasher married a widow who has only been with her husband. Surely there are others I'm not aware of. So finding a 24-25 years virgin or one with 1-2 previous relationships isn't exactly as unlikely as becoming a billionaire. Screening out for quality among the sea of trash out there is my main interest...basically the school of thought of Doc Love, Anti-Dump, Pook.

but you'll never truly know a woman's actual mileage anyway. Some may tell you outright but most of them hide it because they know some men screen for it.

That's how our conversation started...many if not most of those with high mileage are easy to spot ...it's those going undercover that are trickier. @Atom Smasher has said repeatedly that he can spot the mileage just by looking at her face and I believe him. Or her behavior will soon out her, like for instance I know an OF 'model' from YouTube who also said she'd had 1st date sex with guys from Tinder... I watched her videos (story-time and suchlike) to understand the psychology of a girl doing that kind of work...She's about 22, quite feminine...just by watching her videos I wouldn't have guessed she's mentally that fvcked up...then she had an interview and she was behaving like she was high or drunk or something.

All women are dirty and I do not mean that in a derogatory way. They might not sleep with you on the first date but they've done it with one or one hundred men before you, or they have wanted to do it with certain men but never did because those men weren't interested in them.

We're humans and have instincts, sex being one of them. But what I consider to be an evolved human being is one who can control his/her animalistic urges. So if the woman is dirty, I'd like her to be dirty with me in the bedroom, not with every guy that cold approaches her. Just like she'd like that I work out my daily stress in the gym and on the punching bag, not on her or other people.

 

[oldmanofthesea]

There are two differences in our approach and thinking.

1. I don't fully subscribe to the "holy grail of low-mileage" theory that a subset of SS members subscribe to. It is a very debatable topic and no one can claim absolute truth to many points of that debate. The belief that a girl who has had more than 0, 1, 2, 3, or X sexual partners is not able to form a healthy and satisfactory relationship is just a belief. There are plenty of healthy relationships where the woman has had more partners than that, just as there are plenty of healthy relationships where a woman entered the relationship as a virgin. There are down-sides and up-sides to both - and I believe in many of them on both sides but I do not believe in absolutes on this topic. And again, at the end of the day, you will never know how many men your girl has truly slept with. All this talk of so and so marrying virgins or 1-partner women etc - that assumes the girl told the truth, and most of them don't when it comes to partner count and you simply have no way of knowing. My approach is to judge women based on their behavior and actions with me. A core principle of red pill is to judge women by their actions, not their words. Their partner count = words.

I don't know you well enough to accuse you specifically of this, but I have seen a pattern with some members on this forum who are not happy with their dating and sex lives, and instead of putting in the work and dealing with the discomfort to change their situation, they create an excuse for themselves by claiming the only datable women are virgins or single-partner women who represent 0.0000001% of the available dating pool. "I'm not getting laid because there are no GOOD women out there," is what they tell themselves and others.

2. The amount of sex we will have. The approach I take results in my having sex with more women than someone who only sleeps with women they THINK are LTR-worthy (which in of itself takes months and filters out plenty of enjoyable sexual encounters with attractive women). I am not saying this is superior to other approaches or that I am "winning" because of it, but I like having sex with beautiful women and I enjoy having sex with women I want to date long term as well as with women I do not want to date long term. There are incredibly hot 20-something and 30-something year-old women I've met, realized I didn't want them for an LTR, enjoyed sleeping with, and still occasionally fantasize about those experiences today. There are also a lot of men here who don't even want LTRs and are happy just sleeping with a variety of women they find attractive and there's nothing wrong with that approach either. Different desires, different approaches.

So if the woman is dirty, I'd like her to be dirty with me in the bedroom, not with every guy that cold approaches her.

This is a fallacy because you are stating that if a woman sleeps with you on a cold approach, she will sleep with everyone who cold approaches her. If you are a 1% man and you are her type, a woman will do things with you that she has never done before - such as first date sex.

 

[BackInTheGame78]

There are two differences in our approach and thinking.

1. I don't fully subscribe to the "holy grail of low-mileage" theory that a subset of SS members subscribe to. It is a very debatable topic and no one can claim absolute truth to many points of that debate. The belief that a girl who has had more than 0, 1, 2, 3, or X sexual partners is not able to form a healthy and satisfactory relationship is just a belief. There are plenty of healthy relationships where the woman has had more partners than that, just as there are plenty of healthy relationships where a woman entered the relationship as a virgin. There are down-sides and up-sides to both - and I believe in many of them on both sides but I do not believe in absolutes on this topic. And again, at the end of the day, you will never know how many men your girl has truly slept with. All this talk of so and so marrying virgins or 1-partner women etc - that assumes the girl told the truth, and most of them don't when it comes to partner count and you simply have no way of knowing. My approach is to judge women based on their behavior and actions with me. A core principle of red pill is to judge women by their actions, not their words. Their partner count = words.

I don't know you well enough to accuse you specifically of this, but I have seen a pattern with some members on this forum who are not happy with their dating and sex lives, and instead of putting in the work and dealing with the discomfort to change their situation, they create an excuse for themselves by claiming the only datable women are virgins or single-partner women who represent 0.0000001% of the available dating pool. "I'm not getting laid because there are no GOOD women out there," is what they tell themselves and others.

2. The amount of sex we will have. The approach I take results in my having sex with more women than someone who only sleeps with women they THINK are LTR-worthy (which in of itself takes months and filters out plenty of enjoyable sexual encounters with attractive women). I am not saying this is superior to other approaches or that I am "winning" because of it, but I like having sex with beautiful women and I enjoy having sex with women I want to date long term as well as with women I do not want to date long term. There are incredibly hot 20-something and 30-something year-old women I've met, realized I didn't want them for an LTR, enjoyed sleeping with, and still occasionally fantasize about those experiences today. There are also a lot of men here who don't even want LTRs and are happy just sleeping with a variety of women they find attractive and there's nothing wrong with that approach either. Different desires, different approaches.



This is a fallacy because you are stating that if a woman sleeps with you on a cold approach, she will sleep with everyone who cold approaches her. If you are a 1% man and you are her type, a woman will do things with you that she has never done before - such as first date sex.

And also she will do things sexually early on that she may have never allowed a guy who dated her for 2 years to do that she never was really into...

 

[pipeman84]

@oldmanofthesea
I fully agree that virgin/low mileage is not be-all and end-all and is no guarantee for successful relationship. It's more like a strong foundation...but having a strong foundation doesn't mean the house won't crumble. Again, it's not an issue about the exact number (it's not like they have it tattooed on their forehead and I only like 0, 1 and 2). How they approach sexuality is a big thing that spills over in all other aspects of life...so it's not like she's this sweet, feminine, innocent girl and having sex with people she's barely met is as innocuous as eating an apple. No, the point I'm trying to make is that she most probably was messed up from the beginning and each ONS and each bang after 2 dates will erode the femininity and innocence. And supposing you ask and they lie about partner count, the lying in itself disqualifies her for LTR...or do you really expect her to be honest with you in all other matters?

There probably are good relationships out there where the woman has had many partners before...but every man has to draw the line somewhere.....on the other extreme of virgin/1,2 partners there are guys who are not in the industry married to pornstars (some retired, others still active).
I also agree that this is not a sex maximizing strategy, quite the contrary. If I wanted to maximize sex, I'd just call escorts and visit the red light district, in addition to your strategy.

 

[oldmanofthesea]

How they approach sexuality is a big thing that spills over in all other aspects of life...so it's not like she's this sweet, feminine, innocent girl and having sex with people she's barely met is as innocuous as eating an apple. No, the point I'm trying to make is that she most probably was messed up from the beginning and each ONS and each bang after 2 dates will erode the femininity and innocence.

I have seen this both ways. The sweetest most feminine and innocent girl I ever dated (and slept with) was a 23/24yo I met in Eastern Europe. She slept with me on the first date and was just enamored with me. Extremely high interest. She spoke with very few words and was very shy, yet oddly wise for her age in terms of how she views people and the world and social situations. I never asked her about her partner count because I don't care about that and know the answer isn't going to be honest anyway, but I got the sense she had only been with a few guys, and she did tell me that she had never slept with someone on the first date before.... but again, I have no way of knowing if that was true. If you met her though, I think you would believe it. I did, even though I admit I can never know for sure.

On the other hand, I also agree with you that many women with psychological problems end up using sex as a means of trying to cope or escape. I don't personally believe that these sexual acts erode their potential for an LTR though, because the LTR potential never existed in the first place due to their underlying psychological issues. IMHO THAT is the reason, not the partner count. I have met women who have used sex in an unhealthy manner in their early 20's, then came to the realization that they have some problems they need to work out, done that work, and completely changed their lives - including how they view sex and relationships.

I also agree that this is not a sex maximizing strategy, quite the contrary. If I wanted to maximize sex, I'd just call escorts and visit the red light district, in addition to your strategy.

I give no shame to guys who use escorts but that's not something I would ever do. I prefer the hunt, and since I do it passively, there isn't much of a time investment, but it is more than an escort. Different strokes for different folks.

 

[pipeman84]

On the other hand, I also agree with you that many women with psychological problems end up using sex as a means of trying to cope or escape. I don't personally believe that these sexual acts erode their potential for an LTR though, because the LTR potential never existed in the first place due to their underlying psychological issues. IMHO THAT is the reason, not the partner count. I have met women who have used sex in an unhealthy manner in their early 20's, then came to the realization that they have some problems they need to work out, done that work, and completely changed their lives - including how they view sex and relationships.

I think there's a continuum here, not a binary black/white thing. So let's say we have a messed up 17yrs old virgin...as a manifestation of her messed up head, she jumps on the c0ck carousel and she becomes even more messed up. But say she meets her white knight as her first or 2nd lover, instead of guys only interested in taking advantage of her poor mental health and pumping&dumping.... now there is a good chance that she overcomes her issues, because she received help just in time, before reaching the point of no return.

I guess it can happen as you say with the women who have an awakening later in their twenties....assuming it's a real one, not some surface level, tree hugging, yoga poses and spiritual quotes on IG, BS....I'm still not sure if that guy who's willing to wife her up and ignore her past is a really evolved human being or just a beta.