Never Go on a Date With a Woman Who Demands a Dinner Date

[BackInTheGame78]

Advice from the old lady:

Northern California is an entire Universe different than North Carolina. It’s not only 2500 miles apart, but culturally worlds apart, lol.

People are much more physically active in the western US and SW US. Here where I live tons of beautiful people hike on the regular, and in cities like San Diego or Austin the culture is fit and people are generally very active & outdoorsy. In the Carolinas there is not that fitness culture and the BMI of women in NC is substantially higher than CA women. The humidity is less and the weather much better in CA as well. But I digress.

Here’s the thing. Women with high SMV can select for dinner dates. Now. I’ve never used online dating platforms to speak of. (For a week until I saw how many losers & idiots I’d have to sift through to have a decent date…complete and total time sink & waste of time)…so I have always met men IRL and typically when the guy approached me.

For high value women this is good advice. Men know this. Men understand that a 9 with plenty of options is going to require more effort & investment than a NetFlix and chill or a cup of coffee. The two typical type of outings I get invited on (this is over a 30 year period) are drinks at a high end place 30% of the time roughly or dinner (more often than not at a high end place) 70% of the time. And I don’t have to ask, it’s what is offered. But that is the result of my SMV. And I show up in $500+ shoes, a $1000+ dress, a $5000+ handbag and 10K+ in jewelry. That’s before you factor in my car, lol.

And I’m not gold digging at all. I own all that stuff and can afford that lifestyle. I simply expect a man to be in a similar social eschelon as myself, and frankly most men don’t qualify. Which works out well. You see, you are rarely going to meet women like me online. I don’t need to be online. If you are a woman like me, you just need to leave the house. Seriously.

So I go places I prefer and enjoy and I meet men who also can afford to go there. It’s preselection in action. So a first date is about whether there is compatability and common interests. I’m not out with him at all if I don’t find him attractive. Attraction is required.

There are free meal taker women out there, so I get it. But with some women you gotta step up to the plate or miss the boat.

My fiancé? Asked me out for brunch at a nice place for first date, paid for the date. And he’s a very attractive man 8 years younger. We marry next summer.

What this video and others like it fail to drive home is that what you can expect in the dating landscape has everything to do with SMV. True for either women or men. The highest SMV people have the most choices, and if you want to date high SMV people you have LOTS of competition. Period.

Good luck to them...they are most likely selecting boring, lame dudes who like sitting around having interviews on first dates instead of fun

 

[Pierce Manhammer]

Dude just look it up, you do know how to do an internet search. Progrom is a word studmuffin, it also happens to refer to the systematic persecution of those that the powers that be in the Soviet Republic didn’t like. It doesn’t matter what you say, people much more intelligent and informed than you on the subject have written it’s history, big guy.

One time I stood in the FRG, DDR, and Chek republic at once. That was before you were born grasshopper.

You’re amusing please keep responding!

prague , Czech Republic

progrom is a Russian word that was used to describe events that happened in Ukraine . You can not just use it as you want ,in the hope that you will look smart

quite the opposite . The more you talk , the more you look like a low social iq person . But … I am not surprised at all that this is the case

you are the same guy that was saying that simping is ok and other stupid stuff

 

[BeExcellent]

Good luck to them...they are most likely selecting boring, lame dudes who like sitting around having interviews on first dates instead of fun

Right? The number one rule in dating is be attractive. The number two rule is be fun/interesting.

I get more attractive as a guy gets to know me, not less. I’m sure that is the case with you too, based on your content.

That is a factor of personality, intelligence, attitude & sense of humor, all of which contribute to SMV.

I cannot tell you how many handsome but lame dudes I’ve refused a second date with. Bad attitudes, expectation and entitlement ruin an otherwise attractive prospect, irrespective of gender.

Cheers

 

[BeExcellent]

The key word in the title to the thread is DEMANDS.

Sadly women who make these kinds of DEMANDS are selecting for Simps who will seek to meet those demands, who she will ultimately rule over and lose attraction for.

I never have made demands. I simply present with enough value that men offer.

And that, gentlemen, makes a world of difference.

 

[BackInTheGame78]

Right? The number one rule in dating is be attractive. The number two rule is be fun/interesting.

I get more attractive as a guy gets to know me, not less. I’m sure that is the case with you too, based on your content.

That is a factor of personality, intelligence, attitude & sense of humor, all of which contribute to SMV.

I cannot tell you how many handsome but lame dudes I’ve refused a second date with. Bad attitudes, expectation and entitlement ruin an otherwise attractive prospect, irrespective of gender.

Cheers

I'm pretty polarizing I think...I have very high levels of hell yes or hell no with not much in between. Basically either a woman is all about me or not about me at all but I rarely get the ones that are just sorta into me. Had a CrossFit one I dated for about 6 months that was like that, but that is really the only one I can think of.

I'm not under any illusion that I am going to out-handsome good looking dudes, but I have a unique body type with naturally broad shoulders and a very wide back/chest that has been enhanced from working out regularly and I am fun loving and playful so women who like that in guys usually fall pretty hard pretty fast...and for some reason teachers love me...out of the 5 longest realtionship I have had in my life, 4 of them have been with teachers.

Not to say I think I am ugly, I just think I am an average looking guy and being realistic women aren't going to initially date me because they think I am super good looking...but, I always say I'm like Novacaine...just gimme some time, I'll always work.

Sometimes I get it, sometimes I don't, but the ones that spend more time with me get drawn in like a fly to a Venus fly trap and then there is no escape hahaha

 

[BeExcellent]

I'm pretty polarizing I think...I have very high levels of hell yes or hell no with not much in between. Basically either a woman is all about me or not about me at all but I rarely get the ones that are just sorta into me. Had a CrossFit one I dated for about 6 months that was like that, but that is really the only one I can think of.

I'm not under any illusion that I am going to out-handsome good looking dudes, but I have a unique body type with naturally broad shoulders and a very wide back/chest that has been enhanced from working out regularly and I am fun loving and playful so women who like that in guys usually fall pretty hard pretty fast...and for some reason teachers love me...out of the 5 longest realtionship I have had in my life, 4 of them have been with teachers.

Not to say I think I am ugly, I just think I am an average looking guy and being realistic women aren't going to initially date me because they think I am super good looking...but, I always say I'm like Novacaine...just gimme some time, I'll always work.

Sometimes I get it, sometimes I don't, but the ones that spend more time with me get drawn in like a fly to a Venus fly trap and then there is no escape hahaha

See. That’s the perfect attitude. That is IDAF in action. I’m similar. I’m not EVERY man’s type, although I am considered very pretty in a general sense. I filter for high interest men. So the ones who I vibe with who get my time? They fall hard & they fall fast.

And honestly isn’t that where it’s at? I don’t want some dude who I have to demand things from. I want a man who is generous and who offers. And guess what. I reciprocate. These demanding women don’t want to give, but to take.

And takers are very unattractive people in short order.

 

[Pierce Manhammer]

I'm pretty polarizing I think...I have very high levels of hell yes or hell no with not much in between. Basically either a woman is all about me or not about me at all but I rarely get the ones that are just sorta into me.

Here, hear, here...

I could not agree more. Manson totally nailed that one. The quality of the interaction when she is F* Yes and you are too is so thick in the air you can cut it with a pocket knife.

But to respond to @BeExcellent about wanting to date within your socioeconomic level, does that have to do with the actual level of income so much as it has to do with the man's physical appeal, experience, command, presence, and worldliness (that normally comes with wealth)?

Would you date...say a professor that is all the aforementioned things (the super affluent guy is) if all he owns is a middle-class home in a middle-class area and earns an upper-middle-class income and doesn't have a gulf stream 5 sitting warm on the tarmac in Marin County? Or is getting you guys tickets to a Seychelle vacay, a pair of Choos and a limited edition LV bag as a birthday present something you'd expect?

 

[Bigpapa]

Dude just look it up, you do know how to do an internet search. Progrom is a word studmuffin, it also happens to refer to the systematic persecution of those that the powers that be in the Soviet Republic didn’t like. It doesn’t matter what you say, people much more intelligent and informed than you on the subject have written it’s history, big guy.

One time I stood in the FRG, DDR, and Chek republic at once. That was before you were born grasshopper.

You’re amusing please keep responding!

besides a “lady killer” , you are also a “geopolitical” expert

just do yourself a favor and do not more like a fool

 

[Pierce Manhammer]

God you’re so satisfying, your insults are just amazing bro. Please don’t stop I’m enjoying your deep wisdom.

(I’m taking notes)

besides a “lady killer” , you are also a “geopolitical” expert

just do yourself a favor and do not more like a fool

 

[SW15]

Women with high SMV can select for dinner dates. Now. I’ve never used online dating platforms to speak of. (For a week until I saw how many losers & idiots I’d have to sift through to have a decent date…complete and total time sink & waste of time)…so I have always met men IRL and typically when the guy approached me.

You see, you are rarely going to meet women like me online. I don’t need to be online. If you are a woman like me, you just need to leave the house. Seriously.

Your life is likely better for having avoided dating websites and dating apps for the past 25 years. My experiences have been poor on dating websites and dating apps. It's not entirely me though there were elements of online dating where I didn't excel.

What this video and others like it fail to drive home is that what you can expect in the dating landscape has everything to do with SMV. True for either women or men. The highest SMV people have the most choices, and if you want to date high SMV people you have LOTS of competition. Period.

KokoBeaute isn't high value enough to demand dinner dates. I'd pass on her. Plenty of simps will give her the dinner dates she wants. 6'0"+ guys with big muscles are not going to take her out to dinner.

I'm not interested in sitting through a dinner with her if I've yet to have sex with her. She says I can't take her on a coffee date due to her Nespresso machine. I can't take her to dinner at a restaurant because I have an apartment with an oven, stove, microwave, and crockpot. If she wants a dinner, she can come to my apartment and I'll cook for her and then we will go back to my bedroom for sex.

For high value women this is good advice. Men know this. Men understand that a 9 with plenty of options is going to require more effort & investment than a NetFlix and chill or a cup of coffee. The two typical type of outings I get invited on (this is over a 30 year period) are drinks at a high end place 30% of the time roughly or dinner (more often than not at a high end place) 70% of the time. And I don’t have to ask, it’s what is offered. But that is the result of my SMV. And I show up in $500+ shoes, a $1000+ dress, a $5000+ handbag and 10K+ in jewelry. That’s before you factor in my car, lol.

Most women haven't been showing up to dates with me with those sorts of high cost accesories.

@Robotic Misanthrope can get laid with a 19 year old with a tight body for a $10 taxi ride.

And I’m not gold digging at all. I own all that stuff and can afford that lifestyle. I simply expect a man to be in a similar social eschelon as myself, and frankly most men don’t qualify. Which works out well.

So I go places I prefer and enjoy and I meet men who also can afford to go there. It’s preselection in action.

In considering the last 30 years, I would think you would have had to be looking for dates at the highest end country clubs based on what you show up to dates wearing when you go to dates. High end country clubs or upper echelon private events. Maybe private residence parties in some of the most expensive homes in the area. I'm not sure how you were getting to high society events in your early to mid 20s if you were getting asked out then at these high society type functions.

 

[BillyPilgrim]

Your life is likely better for having avoided dating websites and dating apps for the past 25 years. My experiences have been poor on dating websites and dating apps. It's not entirely me though there were elements of online dating where I didn't excel.



KokoBeaute isn't high value enough to demand dinner dates. I'd pass on her. Plenty of simps will give her the dinner dates she wants. 6'0"+ guys with big muscles are not going to take her out to dinner.

I'm not interested in sitting through a dinner with her if I've yet to have sex with her. She says I can't take her on a coffee date due to her Nespresso machine. I can't take her to dinner at a restaurant because I have an apartment with an oven, stove, microwave, and crockpot. If she wants a dinner, she can come to my apartment and I'll cook for her and then we will go back to my bedroom for sex.



Most women haven't been showing up to dates with me with those sorts of high cost accesories.

@Robotic Misanthrope can get laid with a 19 year old with a tight body for a $10 taxi ride.



In considering the last 30 years, I would think you would have had to be looking for dates at the highest end country clubs based on what you show up to dates wearing when you go to dates. High end country clubs or upper echelon private events. Maybe private residence parties in some of the most expensive homes in the area. I'm not sure how you were getting to high society events in your early to mid 20s if you were getting asked out then at these high society type functions.

Two words can explain BeExcellent: Older. Men.

 

[devilkingx2]

And I don’t have to ask, it’s what is offered. But that is the result of my SMV. And I show up in $500+ shoes, a $1000+ dress, a $5000+ handbag and 10K+ in jewelry. That’s before you factor in my car, lol.

Me showing up for a date with you:

 

[BillyPilgrim]

Me showing up for a date with you:

View attachment 8825

 

[BeExcellent]

Here, hear, here...

I could not agree more. Manson totally nailed that one. The quality of the interaction when she is F* Yes and you are too is so thick in the air you can cut it with a pocket knife.

But to respond to @BeExcellent about wanting to date within your socioeconomic level, does that have to do with the actual level of income so much as it has to do with the man's physical appeal, experience, command, presence, and worldliness (that normally comes with wealth)?

Would you date...say a professor that is all the aforementioned things (the super affluent guy is) if all he owns is a middle-class home in a middle-class area and earns an upper-middle-class income and doesn't have a gulf stream 5 sitting warm on the tarmac in Marin County? Or is getting you guys tickets to a Seychelle vacay, a pair of Choos and a limited edition LV bag as a birthday present something you'd expect?

Well let’s use my fiancé as the example. He drives a 20 year old Honda that is paid for and has the characteristics you describe that are appealing. He makes a 6 figure income and loves what he does in IT. He is also very attractive and is an elite level athlete in an adventure sport. He is anything but boring but likes to have his life sorted. He prefers a strong relationship and dislikes chaos. He is interested in having s strong marriage and a life partner. I have dated considerably more wealthy men but he is unique individual who is uniquely well suited to me, and he is along the lines of what you describe.

I drive a car worth over 100K still at 5 yeas old. I too make a six figure income. In fact I outearn him by six figures. I also have much greater expenses with 3 children and income properties but I do not ask for nor expect him to pick up those obligations. Those are my responsibilities. Our discretionary income after expenses is roughly equivalent and we do for one another on a personal level. I bought dinner tonight, he bought last night. He bought me a high end grill, I cook for him on it. We split living expenses. If we travel he gets the hotel, I get the rental car, we switch up on food and we buy our own airfare. It’s a good partnership.

We will honeymoon in the Mediterranean and (this is funny) he suggested I wear the wedding dress I originally got married in the first time. It’s an awesome dress and I’m still the same size and I already have the matching Manolos. Perfect! Now I don’t need to buy a dress! The one I already have is timeless and looks amazing….I’m practical like that. I was looking for dresses on EBay. This is MUCH better, lol!

So no I don’t expect a private jet and a yacht and tickets to exotic places. We will go exotic places, but we will go together as a team.

If I want another pair of Choos? I buy them with my money. More often than not off EBay. Simple.

 

[BeExcellent]

@SW15

I grew up in a very affluent area. I was an officer in my sorority in college as well as being involved in student government on campus. I was pre med. Think Reese Witherspoon in Legally Blonde. I was like that but pre med rather than pre law. The kids I grew up with in my neighborhood? Their dad was elected governor. My parents were politically connected. My parents thought the expense of a country club was stupid but many of my friends then and now are members of one, some very prestigious. So yes I am accustomed to a that lifestyle and I am perfectly comfortable with it because I grew up with it. In some ways frankly I’m over it. New money is pretense without panache in many instances. Not impressive.

Class is related to but different than money. If one doesn’t learn the difference growing up it can be a difficult distinction to make. I was fortunate. No doubt. My family had affluence and influence. My family also brought me up to make something of myself which I have done. I am established in a way that is in keeping with my family.

Keep in mind also that I married a nightclub owner who had the top club at that time. You meet many well connected people in that environment. That being a high end venue too expensive for the riff raff. Again, preselection at work.

Take what I relate as a window to that world if you are not in that world. I make nothing up in what I relate.

 

[member160292]

Well let’s use my fiancé as the example. He drives a 20 year old Honda that is paid for and has the characteristics you describe that are appealing. He makes a 6 figure income and loves what he does in IT. He is also very attractive and is an elite level athlete in an adventure sport. He is anything but boring but likes to have his life sorted. He prefers a strong relationship and dislikes chaos. He is interested in having s strong marriage and a life partner. I have dated considerably more wealthy men but he is unique individual who is uniquely well suited to me, and he is along the lines of what you describe.

I drive a car worth over 100K still at 5 yeas old. I too make a six figure income. In fact I outearn him by six figures. I also have much greater expenses with 3 children and income properties but I do not ask for nor expect him to pick up those obligations. Those are my responsibilities. Our discretionary income after expenses is roughly equivalent and we do for one another on a personal level. I bought dinner tonight, he bought last night. He bought me a high end grill, I cook for him on it. We split living expenses. If we travel he gets the hotel, I get the rental car, we switch up on food and we buy our own airfare. It’s a good partnership.

We will honeymoon in the Mediterranean and (this is funny) he suggested I wear the wedding dress I originally got married in the first time. It’s an awesome dress and I’m still the same size and I already have the matching Manolos. Perfect! Now I don’t need to buy a dress! The one I already have is timeless and looks amazing….I’m practical like that. I was looking for dresses on EBay. This is MUCH better, lol!

So no I don’t expect a private jet and a yacht and tickets to exotic places. We will go exotic places, but we will go together as a team.

If I want another pair of Choos? I buy them with my money. More often than not off EBay. Simple.

Hey BeExcellent,

Thank you for sharing. You have a good head on your shoulders for sure. You mentioned 3 kids, at what point in that relationship did you realize it wouldn’t work out long term? It seems like you are well off now, but I can’t imagine the burden you had on ending it. Many on these forums are hesitant on dating single moms, but it seems like you have your life in order. Much to the surprise of many. Would appreciate your thoughts, whether in this thread or through PM

Again, thanks for sharing as it gives me another perspective in life.

 

[Pierce Manhammer]

Excellent thanks for the reply.

Well let’s use my fiancé as the example. He drives a 20 year old Honda that is paid for and has the characteristics you describe that are appealing. He makes a 6 figure income and loves what he does in IT. He is also very attractive and is an elite level athlete in an adventure sport. He is anything but boring but likes to have his life sorted. He prefers a strong relationship and dislikes chaos. He is interested in having s strong marriage and a life partner. I have dated considerably more wealthy men but he is unique individual who is uniquely well suited to me, and he is along the lines of what you describe.

I drive a car worth over 100K still at 5 yeas old. I too make a six figure income. In fact I outearn him by six figures. I also have much greater expenses with 3 children and income properties but I do not ask for nor expect him to pick up those obligations. Those are my responsibilities. Our discretionary income after expenses is roughly equivalent and we do for one another on a personal level. I bought dinner tonight, he bought last night. He bought me a high end grill, I cook for him on it. We split living expenses. If we travel he gets the hotel, I get the rental car, we switch up on food and we buy our own airfare. It’s a good partnership.

We will honeymoon in the Mediterranean and (this is funny) he suggested I wear the wedding dress I originally got married in the first time. It’s an awesome dress and I’m still the same size and I already have the matching Manolos. Perfect! Now I don’t need to buy a dress! The one I already have is timeless and looks amazing….I’m practical like that. I was looking for dresses on EBay. This is MUCH better, lol!

So no I don’t expect a private jet and a yacht and tickets to exotic places. We will go exotic places, but we will go together as a team.

If I want another pair of Choos? I buy them with my money. More often than not off EBay. Simple.

 

[BeExcellent]

@Chowdah

Appreciate that. Essentially after the nightclub business debacle (my ex husband was royally screwed over by his business partner whom he had known since childhood), and to be quite painfully honest the business partner is how I met my first husband, I just felt zero attraction for the business partner, who did meet me first, and did ask me out, but after two dates I was not feeling it at all (I had no desire for him and was being polite to go but never even kissed the guy), a mistake I have not made since...and I declined him further and then of course I ended up with my first husband (his best friend) but I think there was simmering jealousy and animosity because the business partner felt spurned by me and perhaps felt my first husband had been disloyal etc. so he felt justified in screwing over my first husband (the business partner was IN the wedding as a groomsman, mind you). At any rate he weaseled my first husband out of the club, only to lose it to a savvy operator who still owns and runs it and has made a mint with it.

My first husband became depressed after this happened because he defined himself through that business, so it left him drifting without an income and without a purpose. Bad. Meanwhile we were already married and my business was taking off. So my first husband was a stay at home spouse and father and I the breadwinner for years (more than a decade), and we would STILL be married but for the fact that in his depressed state my first husband became more and more despondent, would not handle the most basic tasks of keeping up the house and yard, and was perfectly fine living like a complete slob. Meanwhile I'm traveling constantly for business and supporting everyone.

After more than a decade of this I realized I was setting a bad example of what a marriage should be, even though we were best friends and ardent lovers. I didn't want my son to grow up to be lazy (and he isn't), expecting a woman to support him, and I didn't want my daughters to grow up to let a man mooch off them. So I sat my first husband down, we discussed (and he acknowledged) the issues and I told him that if things did not change I would leave him. Nothing changed.

Five years later I left the marriage. Toughest decision but best decision ever. There was no cheating whatsoever. I did not have but one date (a dinner date, Ha!) the first year after divorce.

Business opportunities took me to another state. I spoke to my kids on the phone every day in the morning before school and in the evening before bed. They lived with their dad and me coming back and forth often for 4 years. I hired a nanny (who I fly out to be the adult in the home even now if I and my fiancé are going away for an extended period) and I can afford to do that (and she is retired and the only nanny my kids have known all their lives). She will stay with my youngest daughter while we honeymoon. She is a great mom and is retired. Her daughters are early 30s and she has been the third parent in a sense most of my children's lives. It takes money to be able to do that. But I did that rather than exotic travel or expensive cars until very recently. A year ago the girls came to live full time with me, again as agreed with my first husband. My fiancé knew all this going in. He lives with us now. Did he want to live with a woman who still has kids at home? No. But he saw my value (and not in a financial sense) and decided I was worth it. I had enough SMV.

My children respect me and understand why things went as they did, and my first husband and I made an agreement that did not cut me in half financially but met his needs. Today he still resides in a house I own and pay for. My fiancé understands that this is part of our agreement, and accepts that. We are amicable and co-parent well although my son is now in university (my expense) and my teenage daughters reside now with me full time (also my expense).

I went into the marriage until death do us part but I was not in an equal partnership and I had no way to see that when we married. He did not handle major adversity well and that was an issue. The end result was that I became my first husband's enabler by providing a comfortable life, and he got more lazy as time went by. He is now working in education, so does not earn much but likes his work and finds it rewarding. So the best thing for me to do was to leave him. That was the example the children needed to see. Not easy.

My fiancé now is hard working, ambitious, independent and leads the relationship. I defer to him in many things. My first husband literally abdicated the leadership role in the marriage, and I was not going to have my life and my children's life go into the toilet as a result so I stepped into the vacuum his abdication created, but it did create resentment because I didn't want that role in all honesty. That was not how I was raised.

So I've had to shoulder the majority of the big responsibilities in my life and for my family. Fortunately I came from a family of origin that had me well prepared to do that.

I'm not perfect but I am grateful and I am blessed. And I smile everyday when I get to wake up at 10am and home office, get coffee or go for a run. Life is pretty dam good. I've made mistakes along the way but in the end I'm doing just fine.

 

[member160292]

@Chowdah

Appreciate that. Essentially after the nightclub business debacle (my ex husband was royally screwed over by his business partner whom he had known since childhood), and to be quite painfully honest the business partner is how I met my first husband, I just felt zero attraction for the business partner, who did meet me first, and did ask me out, but after two dates I was not feeling it at all (I had no desire for him and was being polite to go but never even kissed the guy), a mistake I have not made since...and I declined him further and then of course I ended up with my first husband (his best friend) but I think there was simmering jealousy and animosity because the business partner felt spurned by me and perhaps felt my first husband had been disloyal etc. so he felt justified in screwing over my first husband (the business partner was IN the wedding as a groomsman, mind you). At any rate he weaseled my first husband out of the club, only to lose it to a savvy operator who still owns and runs it and has made a mint with it.

My first husband became depressed after this happened because he defined himself through that business, so it left him drifting without an income and without a purpose. Bad. Meanwhile we were already married and my business was taking off. So my first husband was a stay at home spouse and father and I the breadwinner for years (more than a decade), and we would STILL be married but for the fact that in his depressed state my first husband became more and more despondent, would not handle the most basic tasks of keeping up the house and yard, and was perfectly fine living like a complete slob. Meanwhile I'm traveling constantly for business and supporting everyone.

After more than a decade of this I realized I was setting a bad example of what a marriage should be, even though we were best friends and ardent lovers. I didn't want my son to grow up to be lazy (and he isn't), expecting a woman to support him, and I didn't want my daughters to grow up to let a man mooch off them. So I sat my first husband down, we discussed (and he acknowledged) the issues and I told him that if things did not change I would leave him. Nothing changed.

Five years later I left the marriage. Toughest decision but best decision ever. There was no cheating whatsoever. I did not have but one date (a dinner date, Ha!) the first year after divorce.

My children respect me and understand why things went as they did, and my first husband and I made an agreement that did not cut me in half financially but met his needs. Today he still resides in a house I own and pay for. My fiancé understands that this is part of our agreement, and accepts that. We are amicable and co-parent well although my son is now in university (my expense) and my teenage daughters reside now with me full time (also my expense).

I went into the marriage until death do us part but I was not in an equal partnership and I had no way to see that when we married. He did not handle major adversity well and that was an issue. The end result was that I became my first husband's enabler by providing a comfortable life, and he got more lazy as time went by. He is now working in education, so does not earn much but likes his work and finds it rewarding. So the best thing for me to do was to leave him. That was the example the children needed to see. Not easy.

My fiancé now is hard working, ambitious, independent and leads the relationship. I defer to him in many things. My first husband literally abdicated the leadership role in the marriage, and I was not going to have my life and my children's life go into the toilet as a result so I stepped into the vacuum his abdication created, but it did create resentment because I didn't want that role in all honesty. That was not how I was raised.

So I've had to shoulder the majority of the big responsibilities in my life and for my family. Fortunately I came from a family of origin that had me well prepared to do that.

I'm not perfect but I am grateful and I am blessed. And I smile everyday when I get to wake up at 10am and home office, get coffee or go for a run. Life is pretty dam good. I've made mistakes along the way but in the end I'm doing just fine.

Thank you. You are showing many men on this forum that there are women that try to stick things through as you did for 5+ years of mediocrity. You’re a champ, your fiancée is lucky.

I hope to find someone with your ambition!

 

[BeExcellent]

Thank you for your kind words.

There are women out there who are quality women. Become. Become the man you are built to be and they will recognize you. @Atom Smasher has much wisdom in this respect. I highly recommend his content on the matter, and he has married an exceptional woman as a direct result of many things he learned here.

Cheers