Staying persistent/“on”

[anonymous12345]

In my day game/interaction I have the problem of exercising the (feminine) trait of hesitation, silence or most notably, expecting action/initiative from the girl. I approach and open without trouble, but after a couple of questions/comments from me I am expecting some kind of reciprocation which of course is very rare in young women/girls.

I fall back in passivity/silence, she walks. Mature women are much more capable in that sense. I often feel daunted/a shame, that the girl is too pretty, even though I manage to do the initial approach.

My answer is that I need to be more “masculine”, more persuasive/“on” for a longer period of time, until close. I’ve had this problem for a long time and it’s persistent.

Anyone have experience with this or have solutions?

 

[Dr.Suave]

I often feel that the girl is too pretty

I dont like this mindset. If you have this mindset its gonna be very difficult to land a girl like that. One of the first things you gotta do is change this mindset

 

[Modern Man Advice]

I agree with @Dr.Suave, be careful with that mindset. Don't pedastilze women because of their beauty (which is a mirage of sorts dictated by the media and social constructs).

But to your point, you are absolutely right. I think we have become very passive when it comes to "mating" or the act of potential mating. This is one of the biggest fallacies in modern dating, it is such a revolving door. Very little effort, a lot of apathy, mind games, testing, and zero commitment. I am no different unfortunately, I stopped chasing, and at the very sign of disrespect or low interest I simply walk away. Is it a bad thing? Yes and no.

Yes, because I believe like you said I think its healthy to some degree to be persistent. Which should be different than persuasive. You should never have to convince anyone but I do think it is healthy to put effort into what you want in life.

No, because you should always love and respect yourself enough to know that your time and resources are valuable and should be valued by a potential mate.

You also hit the nail on the head about women's trait of hesitation. I can't tell you how many times I get the "I can't offer more than a friendship right now, or I am not in a place to date right now, etc, etc". Women simply just want to play it safe and not commit. As long as you have a sense of interest at the very least to get to know you as a person, I think it is your job as a man to pursue to some degree with a clear head to read the various signs along the way and know when to pursue vs walk away.

There is something masculine about being persistent. It's the hunting part of us. The problem fixing part of us. The assertive masculine energy in us.


Modern Man Advice

 

[Gamisch]

In my day game/interaction I have the problem of exercising the (feminine) trait of hesitation, silence or most notably, expecting action/initiative from the girl. I approach and open without trouble, but after a couple of questions/comments from me I am expecting some kind of reciprocation which of course is very rare in young women/girls.

I fall back in passivity/silence, she walks. Mature women are much more capable in that sense. I often feel daunted/a shame, that the girl is too pretty, even though I manage to do the initial approach.

My answer is that I need to be more “masculine”, more persuasive/“on” for a longer period of time, until close. I’ve had this problem for a long time and it’s persistent.

Anyone have experience with this or have solutions?

Gotta close sooner.

When I approach ( what I only do after strong ioi), I go in for the kill immediately. Like a boxer who steps in , punches in bunches, and gets out.

"How ya doing , yeah great what's your number ". If needed I say I am in a hurry. Small talk will happen once the deal is sealed. To elebarote on this: a woman stopping to talk with you should count as 50%, maybe 70% in . She could just walk away or ignore your advances. A great smile and eye contact is all you need . The more you talk the more you diminish your value.

Talk when she is willing to listen. Pillowtalk after sex.

 

[thelambofdeth]

Lower your standards.

 

[Gamisch]

Lower your standards.

Why?

 

[allergictobs]

In my day game/interaction I have the problem of exercising the (feminine) trait of hesitation, silence or most notably, expecting action/initiative from the girl. I approach and open without trouble, but after a couple of questions/comments from me I am expecting some kind of reciprocation which of course is very rare in young women/girls.

I think this is normal these days because young people have weak social skills and poor self-esteem. Also, most of them are happy being single and don't really want to be bothered by anyone. Similar experiences have made me stop approaching women unless they have first shown clear signs of interest. I simply value myself too much these days and expect another human being to be capable of normal interaction.

I think we have become very passive when it comes to "mating" or the act of potential mating. This is one of the biggest fallacies in modern dating, it is such a revolving door. Very little effort, a lot of apathy, mind games, testing, and zero commitment.

Indeed, and I think this is mainly due to poor self-esteem, and lack of life goals and social skills in young people. In the old days, people understood better what life is about. Most people had some kind of a plan, whereas today, more and more people just exist without a purpose.

There are still women who have good social skills and are able/willing to carry on a conversation. It's mostly about upbringing. I've noticed that smaller towns, in general, have more people who seem to understand life better.

 

[thelambofdeth]

Why?

If OP is consistently intimidated by these women, and thinks they're out of his league, it's likely because the women he's pursuing are currently too attractive for him to function around properly. If he's feeling "ashamed" yea...he needs to set his aim to women a bit lower on the totem, so their presence won't make him so anxious or self-conscious. Once he's comfortable with those women, then he can always move up. In addition, if women aren't at least assisting with facilitating the conversation, they're probably not interested.

 

[BeExcellent]

I dont like this mindset. If you have this mindset its gonna be very difficult to land a girl like that. One of the first things you gotta do is change this mindset

This. Listen. I’ve been a sought after woman all my life. When you think a chick is too pretty (or too anything) for you, guess what? You broadcast that inferior energy without realizing it. I read this in about 2 seconds in a man, maybe less, and nothing…NOTHING turns me off faster.

You have 2 choices here. Either revamp your inferiority complex or pick women you do not feel are better than you. Revamping your feeling of inferiority is the better (to manifest the result you dream of) although much MUCH harder solution. Most men in your shoes eventually settle and pick women they do not feel inferior to.

 

[Kotaix]

I often feel daunted/a shame, that the girl is too pretty, even though I manage to do the initial approach.

My answer is that I need to be more “masculine”, more persuasive/“on” for a longer period of time, until close. I’ve had this problem for a long time and it’s persistent.

Anyone have experience with this or have solutions?

I think you're losing frame because you become focused on looking for signs of her approval as the interaction advances, and you lose confidence when you don't see any. This is beta behavior.

You need to get rid of the idea in your head that you aren't good enough to approach hot women. "Un-earned confidence" is beta conditioning meant to keep people down.

Assume that you are doing well and welcome and you will project confidence (and be confident at the same time). If the interaction doesn't work out, big whoop, learn your lessons and move on.

 

[thelambofdeth]

I think you're losing frame because you become focused on looking for signs of her approval as the interaction advances, and you lose confidence when you don't see any. This is beta behavior.

You need to get rid of the idea in your head that you aren't good enough to approach hot women. "Un-earned confidence" is beta conditioning meant to keep people down.

Assume that you are doing well and welcome and you will project confidence (and be confident at the same time). If the interaction doesn't work out, big whoop, learn your lessons and move on.

Is it, though? If she's not reciprocating the conversation, that's usually a sign she's not interested. That's not being beta, that's just common sense. The truth is you need more than just gusto to approach hot women. You can't force attraction, no matter how pretend confident you are. OP mentioned he feels the women are too hot, and didn't really describe himself at all, so there could be a total uneven ratio of attractiveness.

I wouldn't beat yourself up over it. If you made an approach and getting no IOIs, it's likely she isn't into you regardless.

I do struggle with a version of what you're describing but it prevents me from initial approach or escalating during a platonic interaction. One I actually do the approach or act on escalating a platonic situation, my brain switches into "showtime" mode and I do well. Still, I require too much of being "on" to do an approach or escalation: everything has to be perfect in terms of my mood or dress or else I won't approach. I'm also slow to react to IOIs generally. Still, I'd put myself at decently above average in terms of escalating overall, but am not or never will be better than extroverts with a similar skill set and more tools to naturally bypass negative thinking.

Same, except I just wind up ultimately not approaching at all. Granted, if I actually got IOIs, that would be different.

 

[Gamisch]

Why do you guys think most dudes in the manosphere are hood /bad boy types of dudes?

Because to then its just common knowledge to pick a woman up. And now they can make money by talking about too! It's really not that hard actually.

I'll repeat:when a woman takes time to listen to you you can safely assume she's interested. Now you just go for her digits hit and run style. 1 minute and be out. With or without "the bag". 1 minute.

 

[sangheilios]

Is it, though? If she's not reciprocating the conversation, that's usually a sign she's not interested. That's not being beta, that's just common sense. The truth is you need more than just gusto to approach hot women. You can't force attraction, no matter how pretend confident you are. OP mentioned he feels the women are too hot, and didn't really describe himself at all, so there could be a total uneven ratio of attractiveness.


Same, except I just wind up ultimately not approaching at all. Granted, if I actually got IOIs, that would be different.

I totally agree with this. If some woman you are interacting with, regardless of the setting, is putting little to no effort into the conversation why the hell would you continue wasting your energy on this person? However, it doesn't necessarily mean that she is not interested and could just be awkward with men she doesn't know, I've seen this quite a bit and experienced it as well. With that said, why would you continue engaging with someone who is either uninterested or incapable of interacting with you in a normal manner?

I've been out of the game for over 3 years now but this reminds me of an experience I had back in 2018.

I was out with a group of guys and one of them wanted to approach this pair of women, they were early-mid 20s and roughly average-cute in appearance. Anyway, I let him focus on the one he was interested in, and I just interacted with the other one, I had 0 interest and was just being conversational and not flirty or aggressive. I asked her what her name was and then I asked her if she was from the area. She just says no and just has this blank expression on her face. I then ask where she was from, she then just says "California" and continues with the blank expression on her face and just stares at me. I immediately stopped the conversation and turned my head to the left to leave the interaction without totally exiting, as my friend was still talking to that other girl. She just stood there staring at me for a few seconds and then her and her friend walked off. My friend asked me what happened, and I said something about her just giving me one-word answers and making the interaction painfully awkward for no reason. The ironic thing was I had no interest in her and was just trying to have a conversation lol.

With a situation like above, a simp or loser would continue trying to force an interaction instead of just showing some self respect and exiting from it.

 

[thelambofdeth]

I totally agree with this. If some woman you are interacting with, regardless of the setting, is putting little to no effort into the conversation why the hell would you continue wasting your energy on this person? However, it doesn't necessarily mean that she is not interested and could just be awkward with men she doesn't know, I've seen this quite a bit and experienced it as well. With that said, why would you continue engaging with someone who is either uninterested or incapable of interacting with you in a normal manner?

I've been out of the game for over 3 years now but this reminds me of an experience I had back in 2018.

I was out with a group of guys and one of them wanted to approach this pair of women, they were early-mid 20s and roughly average-cute in appearance. Anyway, I let him focus on the one he was interested in, and I just interacted with the other one, I had 0 interest and was just being conversational and not flirty or aggressive. I asked her what her name was and then I asked her if she was from the area. She just says no and just has this blank expression on her face. I then ask where she was from, she then just says "California" and continues with the blank expression on her face and just stares at me. I immediately stopped the conversation and turned my head to the left to leave the interaction without totally exiting, as my friend was still talking to that other girl. She just stood there staring at me for a few seconds and then her and her friend walked off. My friend asked me what happened, and I said something about her just giving me one-word answers and making the interaction painfully awkward for no reason. The ironic thing was I had no interest in her and was just trying to have a conversation lol.

With a situation like above, a simp or loser would continue trying to force an interaction instead of just showing some self respect and exiting from it.

I agree, but I think anyone with a modicum of social tact can spot the difference between a shy woman and an uninterested one. And sure, in rare cases, you can't bc the woman may just be a total bashful, social invalid, but shy or awkward or not, if a woman is interested in the vast majority of most cases, even if she makes a fool of herself, it's the bare minimum or it comes off as cringy af, she will make her interest known. If a woman's barely talking, prompting you to talk, essentially forcing you to talk to her, or doesn't seem interested, she usually isn't. Interested women want you to know they're interested. And if she's so socially awkward she can't even demonstrate remote interest, it's not really worth it to keep persisting, bc already the dynamic is chit.

 

[sangheilios]

I agree, but I think anyone with a modicum of social tact can spot the difference between a shy woman and an uninterested one. And sure, in rare cases, you can't bc the woman may just be a total bashful, social invalid, but shy or awkward or not, if a woman is interested in the vast majority of most cases, even if she makes a fool of herself, it's the bare minimum or it comes off as cringy af, she will make her interest known. If a woman's barely taking or doesn't seem interested, she usually isn't. Interested women want you to know they're interested. And if she's so socially awkward she can't even demonstrate remote interest, it's not really worth it to keep persisting, bc already the dynamic is chit.

I do personally feel that many young(er) women today have very bad social skills in general, though especially so when it comes to interactions with men. A while ago I had a date off of tinder, she was much heavier than the photos suggested. I just met her at a restaurant for "drinks", I just ordered water and bought her an alcoholic behavior. Anyway, I was there with her for around 45 minutes or so and she didn't ask me a single question about myself and just went on these long one sided "conversations" about things I had no possibility of adding to. One I remember was her talking about her sister and that she never had a boyfriend and why so, etc. lol. I don't know how I had the patience but I tolerated it just to not leave awkwardly within a few minutes but I ended up making my exit eventually.

With an example like that above, I just chalked that up as bad social skills and maybe some awkward anxiety on her end but it also felt like there was no interest in me as a person at all lol.

Again, why would you want to further an interaction like this?

 

[Kotaix]

Is it, though? If she's not reciprocating the conversation, that's usually a sign she's not interested. That's not being beta, that's just common sense. The truth is you need more than just gusto to approach hot women. You can't force attraction, no matter how pretend confident you are. OP mentioned he feels the women are too hot, and didn't really describe himself at all, so there could be a total uneven ratio of attractiveness.

I would agree with you except for the mention of shame and perceived inadequacy. The OP is handicapping himself from the get go with this kind of mentality.

You can't control for attraction, but you can control for your own behavior.

 

[thelambofdeth]

You can't control for attraction, but you can control for your own behavior.

Yea, like perhaps going after women on your level. If you think a woman is too hot, more than likely you haven't worked on yourself enough to feel confident in regards to approaching them. Again, them not reciprocating or facilitating the conversation furthers this.

 

[TheGambino]

Lower your standards.

Nah, don't be lazy. Work harder, gym, be groomed and fresh, have a nice and clean wardrobe and work on your SMV. Then you can upgrade instead of lowering standards. You only lower standards if your h0rney and want a quick fvck.

 

[thelambofdeth]

Nah, don't be lazy. Work harder, gym, be groomed and fresh, have a nice and clean wardrobe and work on your SMV. Then you can upgrade instead of lowering standards. You only lower standards if your h0rney and want a quick fvck.

If it was that easy threads like this, and sites like this wouldn't exist. Not to mention doing those things doesn't magically grant you confidence. I can attest to that.

 

[sangheilios]

If it was that easy threads like this, and sites like this wouldn't exist. Not to mention doing those things doesn't magically grant you confidence. I can attest to that.

I personally don't think that having standards that are too high is an issue for most men, in fact I feel it's quite the opposite and thus why the dating market is so warped now. Most men have a general idea where they actually stand and naturally gravitate towards that, I feel it's women that don't and that's where we get all these problems. There's a reason why sites like this exist, as you mention, and why there are so many posts online and videos on youtube discussing these problems.