Do you think the situation will get so bad that men will have to pay just to have a no-sex date?

[MatureDJ]

I was reading this reddit comment (I think someone here had posted it as a comment), and it got me interested:

https://www.reddit.com/r/SwipeHelper/comments/io5qhj

I think one way to revolutionize dating apps might be something like "pay to date". Like a guy can promise a monetary amount and as soon as you see each other in person then he can swipe the money over to you. Call it like the OnlyFans of Tinder.

my opinion: This would be like DryEscortMaxxing.

 

[SW15]

Under this proposal, a man has to pay for 3 things if using a swipe app to arrange dates...

1. The upgraded swipe app membership package to get enough swipes to arrange dates
2. the right to go on a date
3. Pay for the drinks/activities once on a date

That's a HARD NO. Most men are already doing #1 and #3 when using swipe apps.

Men pay to go on no sex dates all the time. That's #3. There are plenty of interactions that are "one date, no sex, no second date". A lot of those garbage type interactions are arranged on swipe apps already, though these interactions can result from cold approaches too.

For the most part, it isn't worth showing up for dates unless the interaction ultimately leads to sex. It doesn't have to lead to sex on the first date but eventually the sex needs to happen.

A typical man who is looking to date these days does have hundreds to thousands of dollar spent in failed interactions that don't result in sex.

 

[derby1]

A typical man who is looking to date these days does have hundreds to thousands of dollar spent in failed interactions that don't result in sex

I noticed a while back I easily averaged 150 UK pounds over 3 dates, I meet two plates this week, so again that will be 80-100 UK pounds. The girls spend money aswell tbf. but I havent got this kind of spare cash, its ludicrous

also the stress of their wishy washy behaviour

 

[BackInTheGame78]

1) Things aren't bad
2) People claiming they are either have no social skills, no conversational skills or no volume.

If I wanted to I could set up a date with a new woman every day this week using dating apps and actually meet them(my flake rate is almost non existent). It's not that hard.

Learn how to message and converse with them so they want to meet you. Don't be boring like most guys are in messages. It's simply not that hard. I'm sorry if you disagree but it is what it is. Focus on what it is you are doing that is making it hard for you if you want to start having more success.

Dating apps are like shooting fish in a barrel

 

[corrector]

I was reading this reddit comment (I think someone here had posted it as a comment), and it got me interested:

https://www.reddit.com/r/SwipeHelper/comments/io5qhj

my opinion: This would be like DryEscortMaxxing.

This is nothing new as escorts also have paid dates options. Lots of times someone needs someone hot to go to a social function with them. This happened since the 90s when you had the Yellow Pages and a large section saying escorts. When I was in University in the 90s and was not dating any women I even thought of that as a way of getting some experience.

 

[corrector]

1) Things aren't bad
2) People claiming they are either have no social skills, no conversational skills or no volume.

If I wanted to I could set up a date with a new woman every day this week using dating apps and actually meet them(my flake rate is almost non existent). It's not that hard.

Learn how to message and converse with them so they want to meet you. Don't be boring like most guys are in messages. It's simply not that hard. I'm sorry if you disagree but it is what it is. Focus on what it is you are doing that is making it hard for you if you want to start having more success.

Dating apps are like shooting fish in a barrel

Are you sure you are not chad looking?

 

[BillyPilgrim]

They already have a site like this called whatsyourprice.com

 

[BackInTheGame78]

Are you sure you are not chad looking?

Hardly. The false belief that you need to be has reached Paul Bunyan levels of fables.

 

[corrector]

Hardly. The false belief that you need to be has reached Paul Bunyan levels of fables.

Something does not add up then. If anyone copy and pasted your profile then they would get lots of results (ie women initiating the first message, etc...). If you are getting the results you are claiming then you are not spam sending a bunch of messages out or right clicking a bunch of tinder women and women are showing the initial interest.
I find that is hard to believe.

 

[BackInTheGame78]

Something does not add up then. If anyone copy and pasted your profile then they would get lots of results (ie women initiating the first message, etc...). If you are getting the results you are claiming then you are not spam sending a bunch of messages out or right clicking a bunch of tinder women and women are showing the initial interest.
I find that is hard to believe.

No they wouldn't. Because I have elite level messaging skills and elite level skills getting them to meet up with me. And if people laugh and tell you there is no such thing I am here to tell you they are full of sh!t because there are such things.

And that greatly helps volume. Imagine how much more volume most guys would have if virtually everytime you got a number from a woman on OLD you got her to meet you. Some guys have terrible conversion rates simply getting a woman to meet up and act as if that's normal. It doesn't have to be normal, and it's happening because of things YOU have control of.

The good part is, these are not that hard to obtain, but it does take some experimentation and some personality to not put yourself in the same 90% category of guys that send her messages that are boring.

I promise there are several guys on here who have similar experiences on OLD that I do that are not "Chad level" either that will verify what I am saying is true.

 

[Hamurabimbi]

It’s already a ‘thing.’

 

[BackInTheGame78]

Maybe uploading a conversation between you and some of your plates would be more helpful than just saying "do better".

So basically I do a few things.

1) I read their profile and ask them things about their profile. If you aren't doing this you are missing out on golden opportunities.

2) People like others who they view as being 'like them" and who share commonalities. The saying is "Opposites attract", but far more often "Likes like each other". Early on in the messaging I will note things that we share in common and say something like "it's really cool to meet someone who shares so many common interests." And then talk about what they are. They will usually say something similar. This plants the seed in their mind early on that you both are similar and you are "like them". People talk about building a connection or rapport but I personally feel "assuming" connection or rapport actually works better. Don't try and build it, just assume it's already there and treat her like it is. You'll be surprised at how well this can work and pique her interest in you.

3) I am not a fan of superficial conversations of any kind. My texts and messages help get to know them better just by asking specific questions or following up on things they messaged. Women usually give a TON of topics to converse on or to go deeper with but a lot of guys don't use that to their advantage. I am not talking about having super deep convos necessarily, just not "Hey what's up?" Or "WYD?". You also don't need to text all day to have these type of convos. Any type of message or text you send should provide some type of value to her. If you find yourself sending a message that adds no value don't send it. It's a worthless communication. Lame dudes who get lumped into the 90% group send those type of communications.

4) Ask interesting type of questions that are not typical. One I like to ask early on is "So if you were given a plane ticket that could take you anywhere in the world right now for 48 hours, where would you go and why?" This will give you a huge number of potential topics to talk about that could lead into the date itself to go further with. Some people will say "save all that stuff for the date". I don't agree with it. My tactic is to find out enough information so I can ask deeper questions about the things she has already told me. This does two things. Firstly, it makes the first date not feel like a first date. Secondly it allows a deeper connection to take place than is typically possible on a first date since you will know more each other than two people who exchanged a few messages with no substance.

5) Set up the date and don't ghost her until the date. This is ridiculous advice that will get you flaked on far more often than otherwise. No, you aren't that busy you can't send a message or two a day. Save that nonsense for someone else. Everyone takes a dump for 5-10 minutes a day. Send the message then if you have to. People who claim they are too busy more often than not just have poor time management skills and could be less busy if they improved those.
If you think this makes you look desperate sending texts, then you need to work on the type of texts you are sending. I could text a woman as often as I wanted to with no ill effects because of the type of messages I am sending them. If a woman isn't more excited to meet you as you text more than you are doing something wrong. People say they will lose interest yet I find it's the exact opposite with me. They become more interested the longer it is prior to meeting. I've had women dying to meet me when we couldn't meet for 2 weeks or so due to logistics or schedule conflicts. Common reasoning would suggest by that timeframe they would have forgotten me and moved onto someone else. This is only true if you are forgettable.

It will take some experimentation and some work to become good with this. It's kind of a give and take situation with each woman to find the right fit. Experience and experimentation will help you see patterns with the type of women you are messaging and what type of things they respond best to. This is a thing btw. Communication styles and patterns. Identifying these makes your life a lot easier.

I'm not sure why people seem to struggle with this part of it but this is the easy part for me. I kind of have a cookie cutter approach as to the various steps I follow to lead to a date and it pretty much always leads to me meeting them and them being interested to meet me.

So that is the ultimate goal. A woman will always meet you when they are sufficiently interested in doing so. How you get them to that point is where you need to experiment and find out what works best for you. I can't "tell you" how to do that

 

[corrector]

No they wouldn't. Because I have elite level messaging skills and elite level skills getting them to meet up with me. And if people laugh and tell you there is no such thing I am here to tell you they are full of sh!t because there are such things.

And that greatly helps volume. Imagine how much more volume most guys would have if virtually everytime you got a number from a woman on OLD you got her to meet you. Some guys have terrible conversion rates simply getting a woman to meet up and act as if that's normal. It doesn't have to be normal, and it's happening because of things YOU have control of.

The good part is, these are not that hard to obtain, but it does take some experimentation and some personality to not put yourself in the same 90% category of guys that send her messages that are boring.

I promise there are several guys on here who have similar experiences on OLD that I do that are not "Chad level" either that will verify what I am saying is true.

Sounds like a cop-out. Lets go at the first level. You are getting hits from women from OLD in the first place means is because of your profile or picture? If it's your profile then anyone should be able to copy and paste that and get the same results. If you are not spam sending messages then you rely on a volume of women to both notice your profile and send a message out or toss their number at you.

Elite messaging and meet up skills mean nothing if you are not getting the initial interest or email message from a lady in the first place. If a copy and past of your profile can't work with anyone in at least reeling in the interest, then the only logical conclusion is your picture is pulling most of the weight and that puts you at a chad-level status, whether or not you claim you are not objectively a 'chad'. You don't have to be a model or the sexiest guy in town in order to be a chad.

What several guys are having similar experience like this. They can all raise their hands or like you message.

 

[corrector]

So basically I do a few things.

1) I read their profile and ask them things about their profile. If you aren't doing this you are missing out on golden opportunities.

2) People like others who they view as being 'like them" and who share commonalities. The saying is "Opposites attract", but far more often "Likes like each other". Early on in the messaging I will note things that we share in common and say something like "it's really cool to meet someone who shares so many common interests." And then talk about what they are. They will usually say something similar. This plants the seed in their mind early on that you both are similar and you are "like them". People talk about building a connection or rapport but I personally feel "assuming" connection or rapport actually works better. Don't try and build it, just assume it's already there and treat her like it is. You'll be surprised at how well this can work and pique her interest in you.

3) I am not a fan of superficial conversations of any kind. My texts and messages help get to know them better just by asking specific questions or following up on things they messaged. Women usually give a TON of topics to converse on or to go deeper with but a lot of guys don't use that to their advantage. I am not talking about having super deep convos necessarily, just not "Hey what's up?" Or "WYD?". You also don't need to text all day to have these type of convos. Any type of message or text you send should provide some type of value to her. If you find yourself sending a message that adds no value don't send it. It's a worthless communication. Lame dudes who get lumped into the 90% group send those type of communications.

4) Ask interesting type of questions that are not typical. One I like to ask early on is "So if you were given a plane ticket that could take you anywhere in the world right now for 48 hours, where would you go and why?" This will give you a huge number of potential topics to talk about that could lead into the date itself to go further with. Some people will say "save all that stuff for the date". I don't agree with it. My tactic is to find out enough information so I can ask deeper questions about the things she has already told me. This does two things. Firstly, it makes the first date not feel like a first date. Secondly it allows a deeper connection to take place than is typically possible on a first date since you will know more each other than two people who exchanged a few messages with no substance.

5) Set up the date and don't ghost her until the date. This is ridiculous advice that will get you flaked on far more often than otherwise. No, you aren't that busy you can't send a message or two a day. Save that nonsense for someone else. Everyone takes a dump for 5-10 minutes a day. Send the message then if you have to. People who claim they are too busy more often than not just have poor time management skills and could be less busy if they improved those.
If you think this makes you look desperate sending texts, then you need to work on the type of texts you are sending. I could text a woman as often as I wanted to with no ill effects because of the type of messages I am sending them. If a woman isn't more excited to meet you as you text more than you are doing something wrong. People say they will lose interest yet I find it's the exact opposite with me. They become more interested the longer it is prior to meeting. I've had women dying to meet me when we couldn't meet for 2 weeks or so due to logistics or schedule conflicts. Common reasoning would suggest by that timeframe they would have forgotten me and moved onto someone else. This is only true if you are forgettable.

It will take some experimentation and some work to become good with this. It's kind of a give and take situation with each woman to find the right fit. Experience and experimentation will help you see patterns with the type of women you are messaging and what type of things they respond best to. This is a thing btw. Communication styles and patterns. Identifying these makes your life a lot easier.

I'm not sure why people seem to struggle with this part of it but this is the easy part for me. I kind of have a cookie cutter approach as to the various steps I follow to lead to a date and it pretty much always leads to me meeting them and them being interested to meet me.

So that is the ultimate goal. A woman will always meet you when they are sufficiently interested in doing so. How you get them to that point is where you need to experiment and find out what works best for you. I can't "tell you" how to do that

So you are initiating the message and not the women then? This is very important to know. This is why you are saying you are not chad-level status. If the woman was initiating the message and doing most of the work, that would be chad level.

What is your rejection rate for the initial message you send in point # 2? You said it's like shooting fish in the barrel. So if you get a very low rejection rate it's still chad-lite status, I've done the same thing and got ignored. People get frustrated when they spend allot of time to craft a message that gets ignored, or try to improve their profile if they meet a special hot girl want to impress by tweaking it so more of your interests match hers by the time you send her your first message. The problem is when these girls ignore your message that people rather sent out a set of spam messages where the girls will read your profile and see your pic, and if there is any interest then you could at least apply that online game as there is enough interest to work with.

 

[BillyPilgrim]

So basically I do a few things.

1) I read their profile and ask them things about their profile. If you aren't doing this you are missing out on golden opportunities.

2) People like others who they view as being 'like them" and who share commonalities. The saying is "Opposites attract", but far more often "Likes like each other". Early on in the messaging I will note things that we share in common and say something like "it's really cool to meet someone who shares so many common interests." And then talk about what they are. They will usually say something similar. This plants the seed in their mind early on that you both are similar and you are "like them". People talk about building a connection or rapport but I personally feel "assuming" connection or rapport actually works better. Don't try and build it, just assume it's already there and treat her like it is. You'll be surprised at how well this can work and pique her interest in you.

3) I am not a fan of superficial conversations of any kind. My texts and messages help get to know them better just by asking specific questions or following up on things they messaged. Women usually give a TON of topics to converse on or to go deeper with but a lot of guys don't use that to their advantage. I am not talking about having super deep convos necessarily, just not "Hey what's up?" Or "WYD?". You also don't need to text all day to have these type of convos. Any type of message or text you send should provide some type of value to her. If you find yourself sending a message that adds no value don't send it. It's a worthless communication. Lame dudes who get lumped into the 90% group send those type of communications.

4) Ask interesting type of questions that are not typical. One I like to ask early on is "So if you were given a plane ticket that could take you anywhere in the world right now for 48 hours, where would you go and why?" This will give you a huge number of potential topics to talk about that could lead into the date itself to go further with. Some people will say "save all that stuff for the date". I don't agree with it. My tactic is to find out enough information so I can ask deeper questions about the things she has already told me. This does two things. Firstly, it makes the first date not feel like a first date. Secondly it allows a deeper connection to take place than is typically possible on a first date since you will know more each other than two people who exchanged a few messages with no substance.

5) Set up the date and don't ghost her until the date. This is ridiculous advice that will get you flaked on far more often than otherwise. No, you aren't that busy you can't send a message or two a day. Save that nonsense for someone else. Everyone takes a dump for 5-10 minutes a day. Send the message then if you have to. People who claim they are too busy more often than not just have poor time management skills and could be less busy if they improved those.
If you think this makes you look desperate sending texts, then you need to work on the type of texts you are sending. I could text a woman as often as I wanted to with no ill effects because of the type of messages I am sending them. If a woman isn't more excited to meet you as you text more than you are doing something wrong. People say they will lose interest yet I find it's the exact opposite with me. They become more interested the longer it is prior to meeting. I've had women dying to meet me when we couldn't meet for 2 weeks or so due to logistics or schedule conflicts. Common reasoning would suggest by that timeframe they would have forgotten me and moved onto someone else. This is only true if you are forgettable.

It will take some experimentation and some work to become good with this. It's kind of a give and take situation with each woman to find the right fit. Experience and experimentation will help you see patterns with the type of women you are messaging and what type of things they respond best to. This is a thing btw. Communication styles and patterns. Identifying these makes your life a lot easier.

I'm not sure why people seem to struggle with this part of it but this is the easy part for me. I kind of have a cookie cutter approach as to the various steps I follow to lead to a date and it pretty much always leads to me meeting them and them being interested to meet me.

So that is the ultimate goal. A woman will always meet you when they are sufficiently interested in doing so. How you get them to that point is where you need to experiment and find out what works best for you. I can't "tell you" how to do that

This is an excellent guide for building comfort. My two cents is that you want to sprinkle in some sexual tension (throw some innuendos, talking about kissing/massaging, etc) in there are as well.

 

[BackInTheGame78]

So you are initiating the message and not the women then? This is very important to know. This is why you are saying you are not chad-level status. If the woman was initiating the message and doing most of the work, that would be chad level.

Depends on the platform. I do well on Bumble and women have to initiate all convos. Others I get some that do, but I usually intiate them.

I could care less about being "Chad tier". Take that nonsense out of your mind and vocabulary. It is completely irrelevant to your success. You simply seem to have some mental block that renders you incapable of believing that a normal guy is capable of doing well which is kind of unbelievable to me honestly.

If you are waiting for women to initiate on those apps, that's a good part of your problem.

 

[BackInTheGame78]

This is an excellent guide for building comfort. My two cents is that you want to sprinkle in some sexual tension (throw some innuendos, talking about kissing/massaging, etc) in there are as well.

Yes, usually when she either starts it by introducing a sexual topic or if she leaves a door wide open...I always walk through it and then joke with her that she left the door wide open for that one and that I am always going to walk through it when she does that. Almost always get a positive response to that and most say they are happy I wasn't afraid to do so...

From my sense if you just allow those type of things to occur as a natural part of the conversation you'll do far better than trying to force that which feels weird.

Women want to have those type of convos but they want to have them with guys they don't get weird vibes from who also know how to do so in the proper way.

Yes, there is a right way and wrong way to do it. And from my convos it seems a lot of guys do it the wrong way.

 

[BackInTheGame78]

So you are initiating the message and not the women then? This is very important to know. This is why you are saying you are not chad-level status. If the woman was initiating the message and doing most of the work, that would be chad level.

What is your rejection rate for the initial message you send in point # 2? You said it's like shooting fish in the barrel. So if you get a very low rejection rate it's still chad-lite status, I've done the same thing and got ignored. People get frustrated when they spend allot of time to craft a message that gets ignored, or try to improve their profile if they meet a special hot girl want to impress by tweaking it so more of your interests match hers by the time you send her your first message. The problem is when these girls ignore your message that people rather sent out a set of spam messages where the girls will read your profile and see your pic, and if there is any interest then you could at least apply that online game as there is enough interest to work with.

In terms of messages? It varies. Some days if I send 10 messages I get 7 replies, other days it might be 1 or 2. I only message women I find attractive and who do not look heavy or as if they are headed towards heavy. I don't go for the Okie doke with the selfie from a downward angle overhead that makes them not look fat...if you see that in any of their pics it is an auto reject. I am not into heavy...even borderline heavy chicks are a turnoff for me. I like thinner women or fit women with nice bodies. Nice butt is more important than bigger boobs, but both are better.

It's volume. However many messages you need to send to build a rotation of 3-4 women is what you should be focused on.

However, my success rate on converting replies to dates is sky high. Probably something like 90%.

One caveat is I will not re-engage a woman who sends a "uninterested" reply to my first message, so this likely helps because they are immediately cut loose as I am not interested in wasting my time. These are relatively small tho, maybe 1 out of 15 replies.

 

[Zimbabwe]

Are you sure you are not chad looking?

His born in 1978, most of his competitors are married. His also had time to build up capital.

It's an entirely different game for him especially when you consider the fact that women almost never date men younger then them.

 

[corrector]

His born in 1978, most of his competitors are married. His also had time to build up capital.

It's an entirely different game for him especially when you consider the fact that women almost never date men younger then them.

I was born in 1976, so technically, I should have the same benefits as he does based on what you are saying unless I was unable to build up capital and had too many set-backs instead? He does have this game where he invites women into his home in order to cook stuff in the kitchen (most of which he's warmed them up through text messaging each day with them, and long email chats, so they are not "out of the blue" etc...) and then seduces them. His mindset is contrary to what other PUAs have said about sending very few emails/text messages and focusing on the date and what he is doing is really working.