You must create the opportunity with a woman if you want to get laid

[nicksaiz65]

Because you are creating buyers remorse in them by going for it too early and they feel guilty thinking you are just trying to use them for sex based on previous experiences, whether or not you intend to. There is a difference between what they think in the moment and what they think afterwards when they are alone.

In general most women I have banged prior to the 3rd date usually don't last more than a few weeks.

Basically just not making them feel like they’re some hole, right? Lol.

Buyers remorse is a good term, I completely forgot about that.

The suggestions in my other thread were helpful. I need to test this with more women, but just talking to them more, texting them, creating more comfort, and hanging out more outside of sex already seemed to help.

 

[Striker_93]

There is dichotomy to what you are referencing and what we were discussing earlier in this thread. You are referencing a high interest woman just in general. Yes, they can be strung along for months at times without having sex and still want to bang. You are choosing not to pursue them. I was referencing (and I believe @oldmanofthesea was as well) when you get to a point on a date/interaction with the woman herself, she clearly wants to bang, and you fail to do that. The nuance is difficult to describe, but it isn't quite the same as just a high interest woman you choose not to pursue in the first palce. If you pursue her, she is clearly DTF, and then you fail to partake or choose not to, this generally results in them getting completely turned off. These women disappear.

I don't think this is the same as the whiskey d1ck examples. We have all been there. Not getting a hard on at the right time many times makes the woman think they are doing something wrong and so they go into overdrive trying to please you. That is different than actively making a choice (or failing to recognize the choice) to not fvck them.

Fair enough

 

[FlexpertHamilton]

Because you are creating buyers remorse in them by going for it too early and they feel guilty thinking you are just trying to use them for sex based on previous experiences, whether or not you intend to. There is a difference between what they think in the moment and what they think afterwards when they are alone.

In general most women I have banged prior to the 3rd date usually don't last more than a few weeks.

Something tells me that's not the issue.

I suppose I could try holding off.

 

[oc16]

The number 1 problem I've seen with not getting laid is not approaching enough in-person. It takes a lot of approaching to get laid.

The rest of the original post was focused upon situations when a man has already gotten the date. All of it is good and relevant but a lot of men aren't even getting to that point where they have dates where they can create sexual opportunities.

Agreed, but most men (myself included) aren't going to approach a woman without IOI's. How many men will approach an attractive woman at a supermarket or bookstore when that woman is in her own little world and has not even acknowledged you exist?

However, I get it. A cold approach is better than NO approach at all.

The reality is; most of us here (even if we are attractive looking) will be ignored by 90% of attractive women we pass by (Supermarket Aisle, Bookstore, Mall, Gym, etc.) in our day to day life. I also don't recommend going to the bar more than 2X a week since that gets expensive and bar/club scene is not ideal.

Also, is it me or are women now less open to meeting strangers? It seems, unless you are part of their social circle somehow or know mutual people, women want nothing to do with you (Even when you look good). This is why modern dating is so difficult (IMHO).

 

[Black Widow Void]

This is the type of post that should be ‘penned’ as an intro for new members to read.

In my 10+ off/on years in this forum, I’d rank the below entry one of (if not the) best submissions.

I will add two points to this post:

1. You must always give women the opportunity for sex by inviting them over from date number 1. Always invite them over under non-sexual pretense. It is not dishonest, it is what women prefer because it is part of their ASD. They know you aren't inviting them over to listen to the record you talked about on the date or meet your awesome dog. But they need that excuse to ensure that what ends up happening was your idea and not theirs. But the important point here is you must extend the opportunity starting from the first date. After some good conversation (an hour or two), that's when I extend the invitation. The reason this is so critical to do from date #1 is that a lot of women just want to have sex - they aren't interested in a relationship. They may have a boyfriend who dries them up and they are craving real sex. They may be broken and unable to be in a relationship but still want sex. They could have just had a breakup and are looking for some rebound sex. They might be about to leave on a month long trip or move out of state and don't want a relationship but still want sex. So many reasons. But just know that contrary to societal brainwashing, many women just want a one night stand with a guy who has pushed her buttons. If you are on this forum and know RP, you can be that guy. It can come as a shock to you when it first starts happening to you (because you have learned game and ensured you create the opportunity), but it further opens your understanding of women, what they want, and what drives them. So many guys don't create the opportunity because they assume the girl doesn't want to, or doesn't want to "yet." Let HER decide that. Not you. And you do this by creating the opportunity from date #1. She will not be offended by your offer even if she isn't interested (so long as you use non-sexual pretenses). Even a good DJ can't always tell 100% for sure if a woman is ready for sex. Yes the better you get, the higher chance you will have of knowing, but there is an easier way: Eliminate the wondering and guessing by simply creating the opportunity. Done.

2. Women are funny. When a woman decides that she wants to fvck you and is now ready to do it, for some reason, she thinks you are fully aware of this (even if you are not). If a woman decides in her brain that she is ready and you do NOT create the opportunity on THAT date, she will often be offended and will ghost you. It's silly but it's how they work. Another reason you must always create the opportunity whether you think she is ready or not.

Thinking back to my early RP days, I can remember multiple hot women who I'm now 99% certain wanted to bang me on the first date but ghosted me after because I failed to create the opportunity. And I also had some women decline my second date invite by saying things like, "I'm feeling relationship vibes and I'm just not in a place for a relationship right now. Take care," to me as well. Cringe worthy stuff. I remember one girl who I made out with 15 mins into our first date. Everything about this girl oozed extremely high interest from her eye-fvcking me just prior to my cold approach, to her flexibility in date scheduling, to her ensuring she looked good for me on the date and wore a dress, to the long smiling google-eyed conversation, to her response to my touch, to her making out with me 15 mins into the date. She just gazed at me like I was a god. The date went great but I didn't create the opportunity for sex and the good-bye part of the date (which I ended) suddenly felt oddly awkward since everything else had gone so well. She ghosted me after that date. What a missed opportunity.

One more thing about women - It is often preached here that all women are out there having sex. This is actually not true. I have dated a handful of really hot women who frequently went many months without sex. There can be many reasons for this. Some of them have problems that prevent them from being in a relationship, and very few men out there who don't act like D-bags know how to properly push a woman's buttons and get them into bed. Since these women will reject men who put out relationship vibes (which is most men) and they will also reject D-bags who are too aggressive and overt in their operation, these women become best friends with their vibrators. There are also women who are overly picky to the point of ONLY accepting offers from men who are many leagues above their own SMV. I dated a beautiful German girl like this for a short while. While I was probably within a point or two of her SMV, she saw me as much higher because of my game. Why do I mention all this? Because again, there are many women out there who aren't fvcking and want to, quickly, but you must give them the opportunity.

When I finally made up my mind to give the opportunity 100% of the time from the first date forward, I can't tell you how shocked I was at the number of women who wanted to fvck me on the first date - it was about one in three. I'm not a Chad. This is not a brag. This can be YOUR experience too if you simply ensure you can always provide the opportunity. Ensure your place is clean. Have some justifications for the invitation ready. Have the logistics on how to get there ready as well.

 

[BadBoy89]

So many posters don't seem to understand this and wonder why they are not getting laid. It's simply because you are not creating the opportunity with a woman for sex to happen. It's really that simple.

To be clear: you are saying the main problem men have with single, available decent looking childless women is that they can’t get the woman to come to their home alone, with a gift such a wine or chocolate cake, so that the girl can spend her precious time, on a Saturday night, cooking with him?

I always thought my problem was not being 6’1. Who knew it was about steaming vegetables.

 

[BadBoy89]

The number 1 problem I've seen with not getting laid is not approaching enough in-person. It takes a lot of approaching to get laid.

The rest of the original post was focused upon situations when a man has already gotten the date. All of it is good and relevant but a lot of men aren't even getting to that point where they have dates where they can create sexual opportunities.

Exactly.

OP is saying “This is how you drive a Porsche.” Men can’t even get a job to get half the money to buy a Porsche. Get them the money consistently, and they will be able to figure it out for themselves.

 

[IKO69]

The effort is commensurate with the level of interest she has in you. My current girlfriend pretty much got the ball rolling. I knew her through a friend and we would talk at parties/outings that my friend would plan. I got to know her but not very well - we'd text occasionally and I never gave it much thought. One day she texted me and was like hey mike how are you?! i haven't seen at you pam's in a long time we should grab coffee soon and catch up. This was unusual for her and so I went along with it and she picked this place next to where she lived (i didn't know at the time where she lived). The hints got stronger and stronger as we talked - she'd make suggestive remarks like what I had planned for the night and had invited me over under a false pretense. I guess this is a case of high interest but i've had a variation of this happen to me a lot and I don't think it is unusual. I have seen men talk themselves out of the obvious many times.

**If you're actively talking/flirting with girls then the above should happen in some capacity. The approach won't feel like looking for something in the pitch dark. Whenever I've had major uncertainty in my life honestly there wasn't really mutual interest if I am being honest. You will feel these things on a gut level.

 

[BackInTheGame78]

Basically just not making them feel like they’re some hole, right? Lol.

Buyers remorse is a good term, I completely forgot about that.

The suggestions in my other thread were helpful. I need to test this with more women, but just talking to them more, texting them, creating more comfort, and hanging out more outside of sex already seemed to help.

Pretty much. Also the way you act afterwards after first night sex can hurt your odds a lot. The default is to assume you are like all the other guys that only see them as a bang and are not interested in anything more serious, which would be consistent with behavior of most guys who are like that. In effect, you have created the scenario where you have to prove you are NOT that type of guy to her versus her assuming you are not that type of guy after a few dates.

The dismissal rate after sex is much higher on date 1 versus date 3. Then again you migh

Exactly.

OP is saying “This is how you drive a Porsche.” Men can’t even get a job to get half the money to buy a Porsche. Get them the money consistently, and they will be able to figure it out for themselves.

If 85% of your competition in getting dates are dudes with no jobs, live with their parents, act like thirsty dudes that never have had sex, or are weirdos with no social skills and you can't get a date now when it's easier than ever by simply being fun, cool, non-needy and not desperate then they really have a lot of work to do on themselves.

 

[BadWatermelon]

Also, is it me or are women now less open to meeting strangers? It seems, unless you are part of their social circle somehow or know mutual people, women want nothing to do with you (Even when you look good). This is why modern dating is so difficult (IMHO).

One of my friends tells me that talking to strangers is weird now and "you should just meet people online. That's how everyone is doing it these days."

Damn Gen-Z kids don't know how to talk to people. (Get off my lawn.)

 

[BillyPilgrim]

One of my friends tells me that talking to strangers is weird now and "you should just meet people online. That's how everyone is doing it these days."

Damn Gen-Z kids don't know how to talk to people. (Get off my lawn.)

I've heard eye contact is now considered rude. As Kobe would say, "soft".

 

[FlexpertHamilton]

Pretty much. Also the way you act afterwards after first night sex can hurt your odds a lot. The default is to assume you are like all the other guys that only see them as a bang and are not interested in anything more serious, which would be consistent with behavior of most guys who are like that. In effect, you have created the scenario where you have to prove you are NOT that type of guy to her versus her assuming you are not that type of guy after a few dates.

Idk man. Many women voluntarily leave my place after sex, some of them won't even cuddle after. I think some women are simply afraid of getting attached or "bonding". Who knows. It's definitely not me coming off as being only intersted in their *****. It probably doesn't help that I tell them I'm moving out of state and don't ever want kids, though...

The only women I seem to maintain long-term things with are young woman (under 23) or divorcees (childless of course) who've only been with a few guys their whole life.

 

[SW15]

I think there is a lot of good information in the OP - but I think it is putting the cart before the horse when it comes to what most men's problem is in getting a woman in bed. Most men's problems arise because they are not confident in dealing with women and asking them out in a seductive way. If you get a woman out anywhere -- public or private -- and you are able to seduce her, you can get her into a bedroom somewhere. The interaction (and/or date) doesn't necessarily need to start "behind closed doors."

I said earlier in the thread that too many men don't approach enough. For the men that don't approach enough, a decent percentage of the approaches they are doing aren't ending well in part because of a lack of experience, lack of confidence, and a lack of good outcomes. There can often be a cycle of negativity surrounding those approaches.

OP is saying “This is how you drive a Porsche.” Men can’t even get a job to get half the money to buy a Porsche. Get them the money consistently, and they will be able to figure it out for themselves.

You've got to work on the fundamentals first before getting to intermediate to advanced level game, which is what the OP is describing. It is good content though.

One of my friends tells me that talking to strangers is weird now and "you should just meet people online. That's how everyone is doing it these days."

Damn Gen-Z kids don't know how to talk to people. (Get off my lawn.)

Not everyone is doing it that way. It's still not the best way to do it. With that said, I have seen an increase in poor social skills and the inability for women to comprehend the concept of an in-person approach.

You must always give women the opportunity for sex by inviting them over from date number 1. Always invite them over under non-sexual pretense. It is not dishonest, it is what women prefer because it is part of their ASD. They know you aren't inviting them over to listen to the record you talked about on the date or meet your awesome dog. But they need that excuse to ensure that what ends up happening was your idea and not theirs. But the important point here is you must extend the opportunity starting from the first date. After some good conversation (an hour or two), that's when I extend the invitation. The reason this is so critical to do from date #1 is that a lot of women just want to have sex - they aren't interested in a relationship. They may have a boyfriend who dries them up and they are craving real sex. They may be broken and unable to be in a relationship but still want sex. They could have just had a breakup and are looking for some rebound sex. They might be about to leave on a month long trip or move out of state and don't want a relationship but still want sex. So many reasons. But just know that contrary to societal brainwashing, many women just want a one night stand with a guy who has pushed her buttons. If you are on this forum and know RP, you can be that guy. It can come as a shock to you when it first starts happening to you (because you have learned game and ensured you create the opportunity), but it further opens your understanding of women, what they want, and what drives them. So many guys don't create the opportunity because they assume the girl doesn't want to, or doesn't want to "yet." Let HER decide that. Not you. And you do this by creating the opportunity from date #1. She will not be offended by your offer even if she isn't interested (so long as you use non-sexual pretenses). Even a good DJ can't always tell 100% for sure if a woman is ready for sex. Yes the better you get, the higher chance you will have of knowing, but there is an easier way: Eliminate the wondering and guessing by simply creating the opportunity.

I have done a good job over time of inviting women over to my place with a non-sexual pretense. I have rarely invited them over on date #1. This is a good game pointer. Even if she rejects the invitation on Date #1, you won't necessarily get penalized on future dates so long as she finds you attractive.

When a woman decides that she wants to fvck you and is now ready to do it, for some reason, she thinks you are fully aware of this (even if you are not). If a woman decides in her brain that she is ready and you do NOT create the opportunity on THAT date, she will often be offended and will ghost you. It's silly but it's how they work. Another reason you must always create the opportunity whether you think she is ready or not.

Thinking back to my early RP days, I can remember multiple hot women who I'm now 99% certain wanted to bang me on the first date but ghosted me after because I failed to create the opportunity. And I also had some women decline my second date invite by saying things like, "I'm feeling relationship vibes and I'm just not in a place for a relationship right now. Take care," to me as well. Cringe worthy stuff. I remember one girl who I made out with 15 mins into our first date. Everything about this girl oozed extremely high interest from her eye-fvcking me just prior to my cold approach, to her flexibility in date scheduling, to her ensuring she looked good for me on the date and wore a dress, to the long smiling google-eyed conversation, to her response to my touch, to her making out with me 15 mins into the date. She just gazed at me like I was a god. The date went great but I didn't create the opportunity for sex and the good-bye part of the date (which I ended) suddenly felt oddly awkward since everything else had gone so well. She ghosted me after that date. What a missed opportunity.

I've not gotten the "relationship vibes" text ever. There's likely a time I have gotten ghosted due to not advancing fast enough. I can't seem to recall it at this moment. There are times a man isn't aware that the woman wants to fucck.

It is often preached here that all women are out there having sex. This is actually not true. I have dated a handful of really hot women who frequently went many months without sex. There can be many reasons for this. Some of them have problems that prevent them from being in a relationship, and very few men out there who don't act like D-bags know how to properly push a woman's buttons and get them into bed. Since these women will reject men who put out relationship vibes (which is most men) and they will also reject D-bags who are too aggressive and overt in their operation, these women become best friends with their vibrators. There are also women who are overly picky to the point of ONLY accepting offers from men who are many leagues above their own SMV. I dated a beautiful German girl like this for a short while. While I was probably within a point or two of her SMV, she saw me as much higher because of my game. Why do I mention all this? Because again, there are many women out there who aren't fvcking and want to, quickly, but you must give them the opportunity.

When I finally made up my mind to give the opportunity 100% of the time from the first date forward, I can't tell you how shocked I was at the number of women who wanted to fvck me on the first date - it was about one in three. I'm not a Chad. This is not a brag. This can be YOUR experience too if you simply ensure you can always provide the opportunity. Ensure your place is clean. Have some justifications for the invitation ready. Have the logistics on how to get there ready as well.

I agree that more men put out "relationship vibes" than "casual sex and one night stand vibes". If a woman goes months without sex, it is often due to perceived dissatisfaction with her options. The scenario you paint makes the woman's perceptions seem legitimate.

Good point about giving the opportunity right away. Goes back to the earlier point about extending an invite home on every date #1. I think it is easier to extend the invite and get the acceptance on date #1 if it is total interaction #2, meaning there was an in-person approach scenario followed by a date. This would be a reason to do in-person approaching to arrange dates. Setting up the sequence well matters.

 

[oldmanofthesea]

If a woman goes months without sex, it is often due to perceived dissatisfaction with her options

Exactly. I have learned over the years that many women, especially hot, high-value women, are serial monogamists. They only sleep with a guy they want to date long-term and who they think would be interested in dating them long term too. Many women can be very, very picky about the guys they target. This means that between these relationships, they are single for months or years. They also shy away from guys they feel are players even if they are attracted to them. Someone reading my last sentence might say that it conflicts with my statements about inviting women over on the first date. But it doesn't because the invitation is covert instead of overt. If you invite her over to "meet your dog", she is pretty sure she knows what you might be interested in but not enough to know for sure that ALL you want is sex, or even that you want it right now. Many women will turn your offer down but.....

Even if she rejects the invitation on Date #1, you won't necessarily get penalized on future dates so long as she finds you attractive.

.... just like you said, you will not be penalized as long as she is into you. And if she isn't into you, then what does it matter if it turns her off?

I think it is easier to extend the invite and get the acceptance on date #1 if it is total interaction #2, meaning there was an in-person approach scenario followed by a date. This would be a reason to do in-person approaching to arrange dates. Setting up the sequence well matters.

Yes, I have noticed this in my own experience, though not as a rule - the most recent 1st date lay I had was from OLD. But I do find the cold approach really presses some buttons and makes the 2nd interaction (the first actual date) feel more like a second date and the woman is very primed at this point. This is yet another reason why I keep preaching cold approach. Someone here the other day was venting about how women don't want to be approached, but when interviewed and asked how they think they will meet someone, they say things like, "A guy will approach me in a coffee shop or a book store and it will be fate" etc. If you cold approach a woman and she finds you attractive in the first 15 seconds and you don't say something dumb to screw it up, to her, this is the fairy tale scenario she has always dreamed of. In the days between your approach and when you send her the first text, she will be building you up even further in her mind so by the time you get her out on date #1, she is very likely ready - it's fate in her mind.

 

[BackInTheGame78]

Idk man. Many women voluntarily leave my place after sex, some of them won't even cuddle after. I think some women are simply afraid of getting attached or "bonding". Who knows. It's definitely not me coming off as being only intersted in their *****. It probably doesn't help that I tell them I'm moving out of state and don't ever want kids, though...

The only women I seem to maintain long-term things with are young woman (under 23) or divorcees (childless of course) who've only been with a few guys their whole life.

Might be a they are interested in you for is a ONS...perhaps they decide ahead of time they want to fvck you but don't want anything else. Or maybe they don't think your skills are up to par?

Yeah I don't know why you are volunteering that information to them. Stop it. I don't lie to women but I also never volunteer information that could be detrimental to me either. It's a kind of skill... understanding what things are going to screw you over in regards to them seeing you again and avoiding those thing unless specifically asked about them, which assuredly should not be on a first date.

 

[SW15]

If you cold approach a woman and she finds you attractive in the first 15 seconds and you don't say something dumb to screw it up, to her, this is the fairy tale scenario she has always dreamed of. In the days between your approach and when you send her the first text, she will be building you up even further in her mind so by the time you get her out on date #1, she is very likely ready - it's fate in her mind.

This is true. The problem is that most men aren't approaching the right women, in addition to not doing enough approaches. Lots of men are approaching women who are...

• In existing, non-marital relationships and not looking for new penis (most common)
• Friendly, but not interested for some reason. A good example was one approach I did where I got strong incidental eye contact but the conversation didn't go anywhere.

 

[BadWatermelon]

This is true. The problem is that most men aren't approaching the right women, in addition to not doing enough approaches. Lots of men are approaching women who are...

• In existing, non-marital relationships and not looking for new penis (most common)
• Friendly, but not interested for some reason. A good example was one approach I did where I got strong incidental eye contact but the conversation didn't go anywhere.

How do you tell which ones are in a relationship? I pretty much have two options: either talk to her right away and find out, or watch her for a while (if the situation allows) and see if her boyfriend shows up.

 

[SW15]

How do you tell which ones are in a relationship? I pretty much have two options: either talk to her right away and find out, or watch her for a while (if the situation allows) and see if her boyfriend shows up.

If those are the only two options that you perceive, the better one is talking to her right away. If talking to her right away, you run the risk of getting the "I Have a Boyfriend" line (IHAB). Over time, it has been my personal experience that I've been hearing the IHAB line much else. I think the women who actually have boyfriends are getting more sophisticated in their excuse making. I haven't heard an IHAB since around the mid-2010s. You and I are in the same age range and I was hearing more IHAB's in the 2000s.

To some context, I can figure out if she's available based upon how I'm meeting her. In general, a woman showing up to a bar is a good sign that she's available. However, if she's showing up on a Friday or Saturday night, she might not be available. A lot of the Friday/Saturday night audience consists of attention *****s and other women either not available or not serious about meeting men. If I am meeting a woman at a bar at 10 PM on a Tuesday night, she's likely available.

In non-bar approaching, it's more difficult to tell if she is available. The best way to do this is to choose venues for approaching. Try to approach in the neighborhoods of your home city that have a higher percentage of single residents. At the gym, women who show up to the gym early in the morning on weekends are more likely not to be in a relationship. If they were in a relationship, it is likely that they'd be in bed with their boyfriends between 7-10 AM on a weekend morning. There isn't much of an audience of females at the gym early mornings on weekends and many of these "single" women wear earbuds to actively discourage approaching. Fitness classes at the time are a better bet since the earbud problem is eliminated. In gyms, I've preferred the classes for approaching as compared to the general gym floor due to better ratios and eliminating the earbud problem.

I also never will approach a woman with a ring on her finger. Yes, there are married women open to new sexual partners. They aren't that easy to find for the typical man. I also don't see a lot of married woman because I live and spend my free time in areas with mostly non-married people.

 

[devilkingx2]

One more thing about women - It is often preached here that all women are out there having sex. This is actually not true. I have dated a handful of really hot women who frequently went many months without sex. There can be many reasons for this.

I agree with this. I think it's just that certain women are more receptive to strangers with looks and game (social butterflies and slvts) than other types of women.

 

[devilkingx2]

How do you tell which ones are in a relationship? I pretty much have two options: either talk to her right away and find out, or watch her for a while (if the situation allows) and see if her boyfriend shows up.

One thing I like to do is joke about the rings a girl is wearing.

Me: wow that's a fancy wedding ring you've got there

Most girls: hahaha oh no that's not a wedding ring but thank you [brief explanation]

OR

Me: wow so many nice rings, you must have at least 4 husbands

Most girls: omg what , I just like rings!

If she isn't with a guy, keeps talking to you and passes up any/every opportunity to mention her boyfriend (or flirts with you after mentioning him in passing), it's probably not going to be an issue.

If she just lets you assume she's married; for example by saying "thank you" to the wedding ring compliment (especially without a laugh) then regardless of her actual relationship status she's not interested.