The problem with nice guys

[Pandora]

Spent most of my life doing blue collar work despite having a degree. Finally got first " cooporate" job and noticed a lot more nice guys.

The problem with nice guys is that they have no edge to them. This means that they do not exhibit two main things.

1.) The ability to set hard boundaries

2.) Indications that they will take risks

It's these two factors that make them a turn off to women. These guys never say anything controversial, they never " rock the boat" so to speak. They also don't take risks. They are afraid to approach a girl and be transparent with their sexual interest.

These things even make them boring platonic friends. I feel so out of place sometimes because I don't care about political correctness. Being edgy and setting boundaries shows women that you have the ability to protect them.

I don't blame women for not getting wet for these dudes because these guys are boring. Now the next step to really being attractive is having your own business. I'm working on that. You can't be an "alpha"male while still having a boss.

 

[Kdw8]

Not everyone is fit to play the role of someone else just for the sake of getting women or relationships.

 

[Mike32ct]

Understood.

The white collar world trains guys to be super PC, only make G-rated jokes and spend 30 minutes crafting the perfect email.

So you take a guy that might already be shy and put him in the white collar/corporate environment and his game will get even worse.

 

[Pandora]

Understood.

The white collar world trains guys to be super PC, only make G-rated jokes and spend 30 minutes crafting the perfect email.

So you take a guy that might already be shy and put him in the white collar/corporate environment and his game will get even worse.

Exactly man. It also snips your balls and lowers your testosterone. It's like you are in a constant state of fear. Everyone ready to throw the other person under the bus if something goes wrong.

The reason I made this post is because I realized how different we are from these guys. When you mention anything RedPill they get weird. Maybe I should keep my RedPill opinions at the water cooler to myself when asked lol.

 

[Pandora]

They probably shouldn't be doing that at work.

In all seriousness, I know what you mean. The corporate world is filled with a lot of pencil pushers. Some guys just go along to get along, others you can tell are brash risk takers who mostly say what they want. Probably there's a third segment who put their heads down and do the job and save the risk taking and edginess for their private lives and side pursuits.

Yeh i agree. It's just that when these guys talk about their personal life I'm like dude wtf. Those dudes are beta as hell. When I tell them a more rugged perspective they look at me like I'm an alien.

Us SoSuave guys are really a very small minority especially in the white collar world. When I was blue collar those guys were very RedPill. But they were also very broke with 3 baby mamas.

So i guess it's BlueCollar womanizers who are broke with 3 baby mamas vs White collar betas with stable lives.

 

[Pandora]

For sure. I think since I've found Sosuave and gained more and more experience, I find myself clicking with men less and less. The ones who "get it" are rare. I can have other things in common with friends, but too often guys' attitudes toward women cross over to other parts of their lives.

I know a lot of Red Pill thoughts recommends group male bonding, but because of what you describe, I prefer to bond with myself, or just enjoy the company of women. Male group activities are good for sports. I do have a small few trusted male friends I speak with and hang out with. Otherwise no need to suffer fools.

Exactly. This is what I was trying to communicate.

 

[Mike32ct]

I don’t discuss red pill or black pill with anybody at work. But it helps my own amusement.

When I hear the girl up front giggling at everything a delivery guy is saying (even though he’s not joking), I can basically guess that he’s tall. I peek above my cubicle walls and see some 6’2” mofo lol.

When she sounds serious/businesslike, I look up and see a short/fat/balding dude at the desk who is legit being friendly/funny.

 

[SW15]

The white collar world trains guys to be super PC, only make G-rated jokes and spend 30 minutes crafting the perfect email.

So you take a guy that might already be shy and put him in the white collar/corporate environment and his game will get even worse.

Yes, this is true. 2 factors partially explain this...

1. HR Commissars: A lot of bigger companies from HR Managers and HR Representatives who are almost always female looking to enforce "sexual harrassment" rules against men. HR Commissars are often imposing their feminist, anti-rugged heterosexual male worldviews on to corporate environments, making these environments far less pleasant for men.
2. The Job Market and Job Interviewing: White collar jobs are not easy to get. If you lose a white collar job, you're likely looking at 3-12 months of interviewing to replace one. Men know this, especially white men, who have to fight against diversity quotas when interviewing. When you know that job search is difficult, you don't want to take behavioral risks in the workplace.

Exactly man. It also snips your balls and lowers your testosterone. It's like you are in a constant state of fear. Everyone ready to throw the other person under the bus if something goes wrong.

The reason I made this post is because I realized how different we are from these guys. When you mention anything RedPill they get weird. Maybe I should keep my RedPill opinions at the water cooler to myself when asked lol.

I recall thinking in one of my past white collar jobs how inherently unsexual the workplace was. Subsequent jobs could have also been classified similarly.

Yeh i agree. It's just that when these guys talk about their personal life I'm like dude wtf. Those dudes are beta as hell. When I tell them a more rugged perspective they look at me like I'm an alien.

Us SoSuave guys are really a very small minority especially in the white collar world. When I was blue collar those guys were very RedPill. But they were also very broke with 3 baby mamas.

So i guess it's BlueCollar womanizers who are broke with 3 baby mamas vs White collar betas with stable lives.

Agree. I find myself identifying more with the blue collar man.

Think about incels and near incels. Almost all of them are white collar men or college students training for white collar jobs. Incel and near incel stuff isn't happening among blue collar workers.

 

[Robert28]

What kind of risk do you want these guys to take? Give some examples. You mean the same type of risk women take by sleeping with a random and getting knocked up? Yeah that’s risk but it’s not impressive. I’d rather be considered “nice” and have my life together, even if it appears boring to women. Let them struggle raising their bastard children and tell about how “risk” gets them wet. As for setting boundaries, you shouldn’t have to. Women shouldn’t go around asking for favors from friends or guys and have entitlement that they deserve to have those favors done for them. Women need to learn a little self awareness, wouldn’t be a need for all this hard boundary setting then.

 

[Dr.Suave]

I have a childhood friend who happens to be white collar. Total femin@azi, white knight, always advocatinmg for LGBT+, the works. We are always at each others throats when discussing these topics (in a good way). Dudes married but says he dosent want kids and had a vasectomy.

 

[EyeBRollin]

I started my career doing in a blue collar environment. I actually find white collar to be more stressful. For one, being salaried sucks. The expectations are greater. Also, I found manual labor to be more 1000 times more relaxing on the psyche. By the end of the day in a corporate job I’m cooked.

 

[anonymous12345]

I have a vague memory of a Swedish article which was something along the lines of “How the academic man feels threatened by the working class man”. Maybe it’s another take on the blue/red pill idea just different terminology, and I’d say it’s along the lines of the blue/white collar discussion above — the academic being the nice guy, and the working class the c0cky & funny baller.

In one sense I understand these white collar guys. Try to be responsible for whether a rocket blows up, whether a medical device stops blinking or a financial position gets wrong due to “operational risk”. We’re talking millions and human lives at risk, or carrying company reputation. This takes a toll, and it’s a tad hard to be a c0cky and funny baller with this, I’d say. Easier if you’re carrying boxes. But well, there’s always Bond.

Maybe you can do anything with an arbitrary attitude. I’m surely interested in that.

Tomassi talks about these things. If you spend a lot of time on education and career (I would fall in that category) it can easily happen you’re a less developed as a man, hence the blue pilled nice guy.

It’s for that reason I’m on my second year at a relaxed music school, because I realised I had to take care of myself before getting mangled in the corporate world (again). It’s also “invigorating”, here’s these kids who are rockers and way more alpha/red pilled than me.

 

[anonymous12345]

After this semester I’m most likely gonna re-enter finance/IT, perhaps NYC, have been contacted by two head hunters for that city. I’m concerned whether I will survive it. Stress, pressure, risk, responsibility — who the heck wants that? I’d in that sense like a more relaxed and simple life, but we all need food on our table, and I like security and stability.

As @Pandora comments above, I also think white collar jobs can devour you alive, with all the fear. Bit by bit. It will require a strong-willed and conscious effort to withstand that. Hence I actually lean toward @samspade's comment on being in the third segment, “save the risk taking and edginess for their private lives and side pursuits“ -- which in my case would be game and music.

 

[Modern Man Advice]

Spent most of my life doing blue collar work despite having a degree. Finally got first " cooporate" job and noticed a lot more nice guys.

The problem with nice guys is that they have no edge to them. This means that they do not exhibit two main things.

1.) The ability to set hard boundaries

2.) Indications that they will take risks

It's these two factors that make them a turn off to women. These guys never say anything controversial, they never " rock the boat" so to speak. They also don't take risks. They are afraid to approach a girl and be transparent with their sexual interest.

These things even make them boring platonic friends. I feel so out of place sometimes because I don't care about political correctness. Being edgy and setting boundaries shows women that you have the ability to protect them.

I don't blame women for not getting wet for these dudes because these guys are boring. Now the next step to really being attractive is having your own business. I'm working on that. You can't be an "alpha"male while still having a boss.

I am not sure, although it is possible, that the whole nice guys vs bad boys has to do with socio-economical reasons. It is more about upbringing and life experience, combined with the fact that we are a byproduct of our environment. In this case, your family and friend's circles.

You are right about the boundaries though, that is also true for most men in general or people for that matter. That is one of the biggest hurdles I come across when coaching men, the ability to create internal and external boundaries. In the 1930's the definition of success moved away from our own internal definition and criteria of success to that of how we are perceived by others. Meaning success to most people nowadays is determined by how successful others view us.

Anyway, I wrote a short piece on the whole nice guys vs bad boys a while back. Nothing too deep but gives you an idea of how women perceive such thing:

Good Guys vs Bad Boys | Modern Man Advice Lifestyle & Fashion

All men fall into one of two categories: good guys vs bad boys. Which gets the girl? It’s not a very straight answer, is it?

www.modernmanadvice.com

Modern Man Advice

 

[RobbyDog]

In one sense I understand these white collar guys. Try to be responsible for whether a rocket blows up, whether a medical device stops blinking or a financial position gets wrong due to “operational risk”. We’re talking millions and human lives at risk, or carrying company reputation. This takes a toll, and it’s a tad hard to be a c0cky and funny baller with this, I’d say. Easier if you’re carrying boxes. But well, there’s always Bond.

Can’t say I agree with this. There are many blue collar jobs that carry a high degree of liability, both in dollars and lives. Crane operators, gas fitters, electricians, welders, mechanics, just to name a few. In my job I repair engines worth millions in some cases, not to mention the sh!tshow caused by the downtime and repair costs of a failure.

 

[Pandora]

What kind of risk do you want these guys to take? Give some examples. You mean the same type of risk women take by sleeping with a random and getting knocked up? Yeah that’s risk but it’s not impressive. I’d rather be considered “nice” and have my life together, even if it appears boring to women. Let them struggle raising their bastard children and tell about how “risk” gets them wet. As for setting boundaries, you shouldn’t have to. Women shouldn’t go around asking for favors from friends or guys and have entitlement that they deserve to have those favors done for them. Women need to learn a little self awareness, wouldn’t be a need for all this hard boundary setting then.

Well for example the topic of a girls sexual past came up. I said I could never marry a girl that had a legit gangbang ( MFM) in her past. The white collar guys all attacked me saying it shouldn't matter etc. The girls agreed with them of course. I was shocked. It was like I was the weirdo. I am becoming semi ostracized because of my views. Don't get me wrong I am still extremely well loved but people think I am some sort of caveman.

At my blue collar place of work it would have been obvious that a gang bang is off the table. In fact slut shaming goes on a lot at that place and it's hilarious. If you date a girl that dated another coworker we call your a girl a statistic.

I will add that my blue collar job has a lot of minorities. So it's still raw. The white collar is a mix. But even the minorites that work there take on very " woke" and sex positive philosophies.

 

[Pandora]

I am not sure, although it is possible, that the whole nice guys vs bad boys has to do with socio-economical reasons. It is more about upbringing and life experience, combined with the fact that we are a byproduct of our environment. In this case, your family and friend's circles.

You are right about the boundaries though, that is also true for most men in general or people for that matter. That is one of the biggest hurdles I come across when coaching men, the ability to create internal and external boundaries. In the 1930's the definition of success moved away from our own internal definition and criteria of success to that of how we are perceived by others. Meaning success to most people nowadays is determined by how successful others view us.

Anyway, I wrote a short piece on the whole nice guys vs bad boys a while back. Nothing too deep but gives you an idea of how women perceive such thing:

Good Guys vs Bad Boys | Modern Man Advice Lifestyle & Fashion

All men fall into one of two categories: good guys vs bad boys. Which gets the girl? It’s not a very straight answer, is it?

www.modernmanadvice.com

Modern Man Advice

This is a great response. I will read this article and give a response. But it's very interesting what you said about the shift that happened. The shift from internal definition of success vs a social validation model of success.

 

[DonJuanjr]

people think I am some sort of caveman.

Fvck em... Let the dudes get divorce raped to oblivion and let the females become haggard cat ladies. It's all fun until they're single in their 40s....

 

[darksprezzatura]

Not everyone is fit to play the role of someone else just for the sake of getting women or relationships.

Great quote

 

[zinc4]

Spent most of my life doing blue collar work despite having a degree. Finally got first " cooporate" job and noticed a lot more nice guys.

The problem with nice guys is that they have no edge to them. This means that they do not exhibit two main things.

1.) The ability to set hard boundaries

2.) Indications that they will take risks

It's these two factors that make them a turn off to women. These guys never say anything controversial, they never " rock the boat" so to speak. They also don't take risks. They are afraid to approach a girl and be transparent with their sexual interest.

These things even make them boring platonic friends. I feel so out of place sometimes because I don't care about political correctness. Being edgy and setting boundaries shows women that you have the ability to protect them.

I don't blame women for not getting wet for these dudes because these guys are boring. Now the next step to really being attractive is having your own business. I'm working on that. You can't be an "alpha"male while still having a boss.

Agreed. Real alphas refuse to answer to anyone unless they are still young and working their way up. Imagine having a boss who you answer his every beckon call and still calling yourself alpha because you are screwing some good looking bar or tinder skanks.