Ukraine war and the need for men and masculinity

[Bokanovsky]

Ukraine wants to join the EU... NATO... Russia should just say "So what... if you think you are better off going that way... good luck."

Geopolitics don't work that way. Imagine if Canada or Mexico wanted to joint a military alliance with Russia or China and have their troops stationed next to the U.S. border. Do you honestly think that America would simply say "so what, good luck" and NOT invade and prevent that from happening??

NATO is not a "we must accept anyone who wants to join" club. Most countries would not be allowed to join even if they wanted to (do you think that NATO would accept India or Pakistan as members, for example?) Ukraine has no strategic significance for NATO. The only reason to have Ukraine in NATO is to humiliate Russia, as well as Putin personally.

That is why the war in Ukraine is a manufactured crisis. Putin was deliberately provoked. He is an idiot for allowing himself to be provoked and doing what he did, but that does not absolve the provocateurs of their share of responsibility.

 

[RangerMIke]

It is not about Ukraine , it is about sieging Russia by NATO army from all directions , beside installing missiles nears their border countries , would USA be okay if Russia installed rockets in Mexico ?

To believe this you have to believe that NATO and the EU is a threat to Russia. Just because you THINK NATO is a threat, does not make it so. NATO and the EU is not a threat to the Russian people, these organizations are threat to Putin, his oligarchs, and the kleptocracy they have established. The invasion of Ukraine is completely unjustified, if weapons from western nations have been given to Ukraine, it is because Putin invaded Ukraine 8 years ago, sponsoring an insurgency in the Eastern Oblasts and annexation of Crimea. They were able to do this because Ukraine was basically unarmed in 2014, now they are, WHY... because they were attacked first.... and Russian soldiers are discovering that it isn't so easy rolling over an unprepared military.

Your Mexico analogy is illogical. The US is not massing troops on the Mexican border. We have not annexed any Mexican territory since the Mexican-American War in over 170 years. So if the Russians started putting offensive weapons in Mexico today, then yes, we would have a right to be concerned. But unless the Mexicans took military action against the US an invasion of Mexico would not be an appropriate response.

 

[Bokanovsky]

What the US does and it what it should do are also two different things. I keep seeing this argument, WWTUSD. Don't set the bar so low. The US invades countries in other hemispheres for less. Point is, it's bytch behavior and creates more problems than it solves. Doesn't really solve any problem, unless you consider peace and prosperity problems...some people do.

I don't disagree with any of this. Having said that, it's unrealistic to expect Russia to be a better actor than, say, USA or China. There are three parties that are responsible for this war: Russia, USA and its NATO allies, and the Ukrainian government (for allowing their country to be dragged into this mess by seeking NATO membership). And only one of those three parties is being held accountable for their actions.

 

[BackInTheGame78]

What the US does and it what it should do are also two different things. I keep seeing this argument, WWTUSD. Don't set the bar so low. The US invades countries in other hemispheres for less. Point is, it's bytch behavior and creates more problems than it solves. Doesn't really solve any problem, unless you consider peace and prosperity problems...some people do.

But the US doesn't have the rest of the world respond like this because it plays the diplomacy game first to ensure they have support needed for it. Putin decided he didn't have to do it and is paying the price for it in a huge way he never imagined would happen. This is a much worse outcome than the one Putin dreamt up as being the worst case scenario. This is one that might lead to the destruction of Russia itself from an economic standpoint.

The US also funds both sides of every conflict as well so they always come out on the winning side.

 

[RangerMIke]

Geopolitics don't work that way. Imagine if Canada or Mexico wanted to joint a military alliance with Russia or China and have their troops stationed next to the U.S. border. Do you honestly think that America would simply say "so what, good luck" and NOT invade and prevent that from happening??

NATO is not a "we must accept anyone who wants to join" club. Most countries would not be allowed to join even if they wanted to (do you think that NATO would accept India or Pakistan as members, for example?) Ukraine has no strategic significance for NATO. The only reason to have Ukraine in NATO is to humiliate Russia, as well as Putin personally.

That is why the war in Ukraine is a manufactured crisis. Putin was deliberately provoked. He is an idiot for allowing himself to be provoked and doing what he did, but that does not absolve the provocateurs of their share of responsibility.

You guys defending Russian government actions are tossing out examples that are just not appropriate. BTW, Canada an Mexico do have alliances that we are not part of, They have trade agreements that have nothing to do with us. WE are not insisting that the Mexican and Canadian governments be puppets of the United States. We haven't been at war with our neighbors for over 170 years... we do not have troops massed on their borders... we are not funding an insurgency in either Canada or Mexico. Now if we had been doing that sh1t then yeah, I would expect them to find allies willing to help them. If they started arming themselves with Chinese and Russian weapons, when we have not given them one iota that we intended to do them harm then, yeah... we would have a right to be upset. But none of that is happening.

Everyone is acting like what is going on in Ukraine now only started 3 weeks ago, this has been going on for 8 years. It was Russia that annexed Crimea, it is Putin's private mercenary army that has been fighting in the Eastern Oblasts. If Putin is 'provoked' over the Ukrainian build up of it's military, he is to blame, that would not have happened if he hadn't started this sh1t 8 years ago when the Ukrainian people overthrow the puppet government that he attempted to establish in Ukraine.

As far as NATO membership, back in the mid-90s that is what I did, I traveled to Estonia, Czech Republic, Romania, and Poland as a liaison to evaluate their acceptance into the NATO alliance... it is not easy to join because basically you have to conform to NATO standard logistics, fuel and munitions, your training has to comport to NATO standard doctrine, training, and operational planning. Officer and NCO training has to comport to NATO standard. The even after they join, they have a defense spending obligation, and agreement to meet strategic defense requirements.

Ukraine has never formally requested NATO membership. In fact public support in Ukraine to join NATO was VERY low.... all that changed when Russia invaded them in 2014. The ONLY reason why NATO looked like a good option for Ukraine was when they were attacked first. Ukraine did not vote to abandon their formal abandonment of neutrality until 2019, doing this only when Putin's mercenary army in the Eastern Oblasts, stepped up offensive operations with advanced offensive weapons and a statement by their leadership that they intended to declare independence. Putin provoked this

 

[Bokanovsky]

But the US doesn't have the rest of the world respond like this because it plays the diplomacy game first to ensure they have support needed for it. Putin decided he didn't have to do it and is paying the price for it in a huge way he never imagined would happen. This is a much worse outcome than the one Putin dreamt up as being the worst case scenario. This is one that might lead to the destruction of Russia itself from an economic standpoint.

There was little diplomatic support for the invasion of Iraq and yet, the U.S. did it anyway without any consequences. Why? Because it's a lot harder to sanction the U.S. than it is to sanction Russia. The U.S. is the worlds largest economy (Russia is #11). Economic sanctions against the U.S. would crash the world's economy. Also, the U.S. has meaningful ways of retaliating against sanctions, unlike Russia.

At the end of the day, might is right. And Russia is just not strong enough, economically and politically, to do what Putin has done without serious consequences.

 

[Modern Man Advice]

The West woke up days a go on real thread that remind them in days of WWII , and suddenly we saw men going to army while women and children running by their life to neighbor countries. Suddenly it was forgotten all feminist dogma and the traditional roles were established again naturally.
Putin and Lavrov by their traditional masculinity challenging the west, who's female leaders number increasing day after day.
Suddenly the girls and women need protection again.
Will that be a hit to feminism , do you think the west will reevaluate their culture after this war?

[To the admin , this is not about politic , it is about sexual dynamic in war time ]

I think removing gender roles, feminism and whatnot would be key here. This has nothing to do nor will have any effect on it. As another member state here, this was long coming. Everything that has happened in the last decade and especially last few years has a purpose. You just have to think critically and see the patterns.

This is what is fundamentally called magic, one hand distracts while the other makes "magic".

Modern Man Advice

 

[Bokanovsky]

You guys defending Russian government actions are tossing out examples that are just not appropriate. BTW, Canada an Mexico do have alliances that we are not part of, They have trade agreements that have nothing to do with us. WE are not insisting that the Mexican and Canadian governments be puppets of the United States.

What an amazing non sequitur. Those are not military alliances. You know what happened the last time a sovereign nation (Cuba) wanted to have Russian military equipment on their territory, don't you? Pointing out obvious hypocrisy is not "defending".

We haven't been at war with our neighbors for over 170 years... we do not have troops massed on their borders... we are not funding an insurgency in either Canada or Mexico. Now if we had been doing that sh1t then yeah, I would expect them to find allies willing to help them. If they started arming themselves with Chinese and Russian weapons, when we have not given them one iota that we intended to do them harm then, yeah... we would have a right to be upset. But none of that is happening.

So in other words, USA has the right to prevent other nations from seeking military alliances with America's enemies, but Russia does not have the right to prevent other nations from seeking military alliances with its enemies? Got it. By the way, you do know that USA actively supported and financed the 2014 overthrow of a democratically elected president of Ukraine and replaced him with a pro-American puppet? This is not news, right?

 

[Barrister]

Ukraine is one of the most openly and biggest human trafficking nations in the world. The government is literally in on it. There are no innocents in Ukraine.

Are you implying that Putin’s cause is somehow just because of this? I really hope not.

Edit: just noticed your last sentence. Very ignorant thing to say with all due respect.

 

[Jake_Gyllenhaal69]

The difference is the US knows how to play the game to get the world on its side. Russia thought they could skip this step. Didn't work out very well for them.

Sanctions absolutely hurt the elite...they are individually sanctioned. I work for a bank. Unless you don't think confiscating a 760 million dollar yacht hurts.

Putin has gravely miscalculated this and it will end up being his downfall almost assuredly. There is no coming back from this.

The West has never been on friendly terms with Russia. I’m sure he planned for the sanctions from the US, idk about the European outcry though.

 

[MatureDJ]

I'm inclined to think that most of these "foreign legion" types went to Ukraine precisely for that reason (hoping for an easy lay) and don't intend to do any actual fighting. It would be interesting to see if they ever get deployed (and what happens to them once they are).

Well, dodging bullets is NOT my idea of "easy".

 

[BackInTheGame78]

There was little diplomatic support for the invasion of Iraq and yet, the U.S. did it anyway without any consequences. Why? Because it's a lot harder to sanction the U.S. than it is to sanction Russia. The U.S. is the worlds largest economy (Russia is #11). Economic sanctions against the U.S. would crash the world's economy. Also, the U.S. has meaningful ways of retaliating against sanctions, unlike Russia.

At the end of the day, might is right. And Russia is just not strong enough, economically and politically, to do what Putin has done without serious consequences.

Well...the fact that Russia has hypersonic nuclear missiles and we don't is reason for pause...nothing we could do if they fire one of those towards DC or NYC or Chicago or LA.

Been quite a while since the US was behind in the arms race.

 

[Bokanovsky]

Well, dodging bullets is NOT my idea of "easy".

I don't think most of them are actually planning to go to places where you have to dodge bullets.

 

[MatureDJ]

You guys defending Russian government actions are tossing out examples that are just not appropriate. BTW, Canada an Mexico do have alliances that we are not part of, They have trade agreements that have nothing to do with us. WE are not insisting that the Mexican and Canadian governments be puppets of the United States. We haven't been at war with our neighbors for over 170 years... we do not have troops massed on their borders... we are not funding an insurgency in either Canada or Mexico. Now if we had been doing that sh1t then yeah, I would expect them to find allies willing to help them. If they started arming themselves with Chinese and Russian weapons, when we have not given them one iota that we intended to do them harm then, yeah... we would have a right to be upset. But none of that is happening.

Everyone is acting like what is going on in Ukraine now only started 3 weeks ago, this has been going on for 8 years. It was Russia that annexed Crimea, it is Putin's private mercenary army that has been fighting in the Eastern Oblasts. If Putin is 'provoked' over the Ukrainian build up of it's military, he is to blame, that would not have happened if he hadn't started this sh1t 8 years ago when the Ukrainian people overthrow the puppet government that he attempted to establish in Ukraine.

As far as NATO membership, back in the mid-90s that is what I did, I traveled to Estonia, Czech Republic, Romania, and Poland as a liaison to evaluate their acceptance into the NATO alliance... it is not easy to join because basically you have to conform to NATO standard logistics, fuel and munitions, your training has to comport to NATO standard doctrine, training, and operational planning. Officer and NCO training has to comport to NATO standard. The even after they join, they have a defense spending obligation, and agreement to meet strategic defense requirements.

Ukraine has never formally requested NATO membership. In fact public support in Ukraine to join NATO was VERY low.... all that changed when Russia invaded them in 2014. The ONLY reason why NATO looked like a good option for Ukraine was when they were attacked first. Ukraine did not vote to abandon their formal abandonment of neutrality until 2019, doing this only when Putin's mercenary army in the Eastern Oblasts, stepped up offensive operations with advanced offensive weapons and a statement by their leadership that they intended to declare independence. Putin provoked this

Ukraine will be part of the EU, although perhaps only in some special "beginner" status. The key though is that Ukraine can be given the top Western weapons, which obviously are mogging the sheet out of Russian materiel-of-war. Ukraine will be somewhat like a Switzerland or Israel in that there will be a relatively large defense force that could defend itself against a future Mother Russia invasion. Слава Украіна

 

[MatureDJ]

I don't think most of them are actually planning to go to places where you have to dodge bullets.

So at the border they are going to say that they are there to fight for Ukraine, but then go AWOL and try to pick up Ukrainian poon?

 

[Bokanovsky]

So at the border they are going to say that they are there to fight for Ukraine, but then go AWOL and try to pick up Ukrainian poon?

Would that surprise you?

 

[Jake_Gyllenhaal69]

Ukraine will be part of the EU, although perhaps only in some special "beginner" status. The key though is that Ukraine can be given the top Western weapons, which obviously are mogging the sheet out of Russian materiel-of-war. Ukraine will be somewhat like a Switzerland or Israel in that there will be a relatively large defense force that could defend itself against a future Mother Russia invasion. Слава Украіна

how will a country with an economy lower than post war Iraq successfully integrate in the EU? If Greece, Poland, and Hungary are causing issues than imagine what the Ukraine will do.

 

[MatureDJ]

What’s really going is way too complicated for the average person to process. And your post proves it. If that sounds elitist of me then too bad. We are about to enter a very, very bad moment in history.

Russia, America, China, Ukraine are all run by the same people, with puppets below giving the appearance of “different countries”.

Globalists built modern Russia after the Soviet Union collapsed. Globalists also built modern China after WW2. Mao even went to Yale.

What is a globalist I hear you ask? This is Henry Kissinger, George Soros types and above that Rothschild banker types. These are elites who are more powerful than countries. No singular country has more power than them, including America. This is especially true of Rothschild. Complete untouchables (apparently).

There is no such thing as America vs Russia / China. The same people run the lot. Countries don’t actually exist anymore. America has shipped most of its manufacturing East. We live in an interdependent, globalised world (that’s what they want you to think, that this is all inevitable).

The goal of the war with Ukraine is, eventually, uniting the Eurasian landmass into one entity called The World Island. It’s called Heartland Theory. Look into it. This has been planned for so long.

The same thing happened in WW2. This was another globalist war that was advancing the World Island agenda, that has seen Europe as basically “one country/one currency” ever since.

They want to take this system truly global now with GovCoin as a global crypto currency issued from a global central bank.

So what does this fake war with Ukraine achieve?

It achieves cover for the enormous hyper inflation and economic destruction that’s about to engulf the world. All your money will be worthless soon. This in turn provides plausible deniability for a “global solution.” Same as Covid, which was also totally fake - notice how all countries were in lockstep? They all started talking about Covid at exactly the same time. The same narrative runs everything. In the wake of the pandemic, they have just begun signing open global lockdown treaties. The global citizens are about to get their asses handed to them via ongoing fake wars, pandemics and global warming (oops I mean climate change. They had to change the name).

To top it all off, the men who run this world have decided that there are just far too many people…

…And I mean like billions too many people on this planet ... they plan to do something about that too.

Obviously you have QAnonMaxxed ...

 

[MatureDJ]

Would that surprise you?

Uh, as in any war time, the punishment for going AWOL is the firing squad.

 

[MatureDJ]

how will a country with an economy lower than post war Iraq successfully integrate in the EU? If Greece, Poland, and Hungary are causing issues than imagine what the Ukraine will do.

Oh, they'll get a standard of living (but with good health care) on the order of the poor EE countries.