Anyone here from Russia?

[Bandolero]

Pretty weak argument. Russia has taken ownership of its actions. Typical Western snowflake media to try to demand partial credit.

It does not surprise me that the majority of the world always see one side.
It's either black or white , since the mainstream media covers all the thinking for most of us .

 

[Serenity]

Peace talks today in Antalya,Turkey. Hopefully Lavrov and Kuleba can agree to just end this war.

We can finally fix these gas prices and delay the next recession, at least until china invades Taiwan.

It comes as a surprise to absolutely nobody that they made no progress.

Even if the violence stops, the conflict will probably last for a very very long time. I think people are waaay too optimistic about what a ceasefire would do, the damage is already done and the scope of it is global in magnitude. There's no easy way out of it and according to a poll (pinch of salt here) it seems a majority of Ukrainians would rather die fighting than to give in to Russias demands. Especially now that they've seen the Russians indiscriminately bomb everything and shoot at nearly anything, kinda motivates them to go fvck up the Russians.

Best solution would be for Russia to just fvck off, as they have the opportunity to do at any time, but choose not to. Even then the damage is already done, their economy is fvcked no matter what happens next, so I guess they might as well just keep the invasion going at that point.

Bad times are ahead and I see no quick and easy way out of that, I think you're going to have to brace yourself for higher gas prices for a while. At least you're not being turned into pink mist by Russian bombs.

 

[lost_blackbird]

Also, the western media are lying about what is happening so that they can take attention away from the disastrous handling of the pandemic. Just in time to start fearmongering about war instead of covid.

I'm inclined to agree with this. The timing seems very con-venient.

 

[Bandolero]

I guess my point is, Russia invaded Ukraine. So it's Russia's fault or responsibility, however one sees it. Talks about "provocation" are about as legitimate as "WMD in Iraq" claims by the US. Nobody forces anybody to invade a country.

Yes you are right , but I did not see one country forcing all others to sanction this particular state
They are banning them from every sporting event
took out all the products in the Markets ,
damn they even changed my favourite type of cake , the Russian zupfkuchen and now they only call it zupfkuchen.
It is ridiculous.
Took out the Russian teams in fifa and NHL and they don't even sell adidas track suits to Russia anymore- can you believe this ?
It is a trend to hate on these folks ,
The Russians are the new Jews.

 

[xplt]

True, the sanctions will hurt the Russian people, many of whom are not in favor of this incursion. Hopefully most people can distinguish between the gov't/war profiteers and regular people.

Most yes, but sadly many others can‘t.
A friend of mine here in germany is russian, his kids are getting already bullied in school.

The hype and hysteria the western media is producing again, while ignoring important facts and spreading misinformation is just disgusting.

 

[EyeBRollin]

True, the sanctions will hurt the Russian people, many of whom are not in favor of this incursion. Hopefully most people can distinguish between the gov't/war profiteers and regular people.

The Russians are the new Jews.

No they are not the “new Jews.” The Russian people are rightfully being held accountable for the actions of their government. It is their responsibility to preserve the image of their country in the eyes of the world. The fact is Russia invaded Ukraine, instantly turning millions of Ukrainians into refugees. There is no “both sides at fault” or “both sides deserve sympathy” here. Russian people have to do something to get rid of Putin- as difficult as that may be.

 

[Bandolero]

No they are not the “new Jews.” The Russian people are rightfully being held accountable for the actions of their government. It is their responsibility to preserve the image of their country in the eyes of the world. The fact is Russia invaded Ukraine, instantly turning millions of Ukrainians into refugees. There is no “both sides at fault” or “both sides deserve sympathy” here. Russian people have to do something to get rid of Putin- as difficult as that may be.

You sound like someone

I am skeptical of this. Much of this is human behavioral patterns and psychology. Dictatorships, fascism, etc. is studied ad nauseum in schools yet they continue to pop up all over the world like whack a mole. Bottom line is in times of crisis humans gravitate towards certain kind of leadership. Much like how logical arguments fail when challenging a person’s opinion.

 

[Bokanovsky]

No they are not the “new Jews.” The Russian people are rightfully being held accountable for the actions of their government. It is their responsibility to preserve the image of their country in the eyes of the world. The fact is Russia invaded Ukraine, instantly turning millions of Ukrainians into refugees. There is no “both sides at fault” or “both sides deserve sympathy” here. Russian people have to do something to get rid of Putin- as difficult as that may be.

Meh, empty talk. What were you doing to get rid of Bush when he invaded Iraq? Or Obama when your country was supplying weapons to jihadists in Syria? What are you doing right now to get rid of Biden, who is supplying weapons to the Saudis, who, in turn, use them to commit war crimes in Yemen?

 

[EyeBRollin]

The Russian people didn't do this, mate. Even if their elections weren't a sham, governments are going to make awful decisions that don't reflect the will of the people. See: All of history. You are conflating idiot leaders with regular people.

Agree, they're not the "new Jews." But little kids should not be bullied over this. A lot worse xenophobia can happen in wartime. We're not far removed from internment camps in the US.

As for getting rid of Putin, well, anyone can be assassinated. Most people won't take the risk to their liberty or their family. But I'm sure there are some people out there who will try.

What you are doing here is disassociating a people from their own government, which is a tenuous argument at best. Government is not some nebulous entity; it is made up of the people and represents the people. Yes, even the repressive ones. It is on the people of that country to hold their government accountable. In the worst cases that means revolutions and coups. The Russian people are not absolved from their military invasion of Ukraine.

 

[EyeBRollin]

Meh, empty talk. What were you doing to get rid of Bush when he invaded Iraq? Or Obama when your country was supplying weapons to jihadists in Syria? What are you doing right now to get rid of Biden, who is supplying weapons to the Saudis, who, in turn, use them to commit war crimes in Yemen?

Another weak both sidesism. But I’ll entertain it. If the rest of the world imposed severe economic sanctions against American people and companies- it falls squarely on the American civilians to hold the US government accountable for those decisions.

 

[EyeBRollin]

If they're against it, I absolve them. Pretty easy!

Not good enough. Being principally “against” human rights violations, invasions, genocide, or any other heinous undertaking is insufficient. They must stop it from happening / continuing.

 

[EyeBRollin]

So it's just about money? No sanctions = no problem?

Not sure what you are asking here.

 

[Bokanovsky]

Another weak both sidesism. But I’ll entertain it. If the rest of the world imposed severe economic sanctions against American people and companies- it falls squarely on the American civilians to hold the US government accountable for those decisions.

That's a hilarious attempt at equivocation. You are saying that because the rest of the world won't stand up to America (either due to weakness or for their own selfish reasons), you have no moral culpability in what your government is doing...But if sanctions were imposed, it would be up to you to overthrow your government. Sorry bud, but it doesn't work that way. War crimes are war crimes, regardless of whether they trigger sanctions. And you are complicit in your government's war crimes, according to your own theory.

 

[EyeBRollin]

That's a hilarious attempt at equivocation. You are saying that because the rest if of the world won't stand up to America (either due to weakness or for their own selfish reasons), you have no moral culpability in what your government is doing

That is not what I said at all. I do not support any of those decisions by the US government.

...But if sanctions were imposed, it would be up to you to overthrow your government. Sorry bud, but it doesn't work that way. War crimes are war crimes, regardless of whether they trigger sanctions. And you are complicit in your government's war crimes, according to your own theory.

I believe all American citizens are complicit in the actions undertaken by the US government. That’s why I laugh at the weak both sidesism.

 

[EyeBRollin]

Well I don't think any of my Russian friends are going to pull a Franz Ferdinand. We're still friends though. I don't typically judge people based on their president/PM/king etc. Otherwise I'd have NO friends.

That is fine. Just saying it doesn’t absolve the Russian people for the atrocities committed against Ukrainians.

 

[Bandolero]

Well I don't think any of my Russian friends are going to pull a Franz Ferdinand. We're still friends though. I don't typically judge people based on their president/PM/king etc. Otherwise I'd have NO friends.

Do you have a representative president in mind ?

 

[EyeBRollin]

I don't typically judge people based on their president/PM/king etc. Otherwise I'd have NO friends.

So the American citizens bear no responsibility if President Biden decides to invade and occupy Canada?

 

[Kotaix]

Not good enough. Being principally “against” human rights violations, invasions, genocide, or any other heinous undertaking is insufficient. They must stop it from happening / continuing.

Then put your money where your mouth is, go to ukraine and sign up to fight with them like so many others are. (assuming that's even happening).

Lots of muslims did this when ISIS was up and running and they found a rude awakening.

 

[EyeBRollin]

What we were both driving at was you said "If the rest of the world imposed severe economic sanctions against American people and companies- it falls squarely on the American civilians to hold the US government accountable for those decisions."

I figured the assumption was understood that if the US government did something heinous like invade another global power like Canada, it would be up to American citizens to force their government stop it.

On a matter of principle no I don’t support the US’s actions in the Middle East either. I tried to raise a practical example that if the rest of the world looks at Americans negatively due to our foreign policy, it is our own damn fault as US citizens. And it is up to us to check the US government.

The arguments I’ve disagreed with and take issue are:

1) Russia invaded Ukraine. But the US does it too in the Middle East! (Aka both sides-ism)

2) Russian citizens are not responsible for the Russian invasion of Ukraine

 

[xplt]

This situation was provoked over many years. What happens in the Ukraine right now is horrible.
Russia and the Ukraine should have been sanctioned long time ago, but what happened in Donbass and on the crimea isle was tolerated by our governments in the west till it was too late.
This conflict could have been avoided if we, Europe and the US wouldn‘t have been so selfish and arrogant