Online Dating Puts Men in a Submissive Position

[Zimbabwe]

I see this trend as a two-way problem on some dating sites: too many overly aggressive men and women with a sense of entitlement. Firstly, Tinder is probably near the bottom of the barrel as far as quality of people go. I knew quite a few men who had profiles on there, and I know I would never want any of my sisters dating them, so I’ll leave it at that. However, some paysites like Match attract a great deal of riff raff too.

Many dating sites are filled with what’s known as alpha-mailers: men who send the same crude responses to many different women simply based on their looks. However, if you’re a woman on these sites complaining about this, but yet never look at men's profiles and message them first yourself, then what type of results do you expect? Dream dates don’t just fall on to your lap.

Most men have the position of initiator, which will always ensure most women will have a major advantage when it comes to getting a date. Whether these are ‘quality’ men or not, and even if the experience is not enjoyable, still does not take away from the foundation of my argument. When you’re not in somebody else's shoes, you very likely do not have the ability to understand any related dilemma in an objective manner.

If you spent a year desperately looking for work and sending in resumes, then got one job offer, you’d be over the moon and instantly take it. However, if you were flooded with employers calling you daily, not only would you not send out a bunch of resumes, but you would sit back, take your time and pick the best.

Beautiful women have options. They have countless men “sliding into their DMs,” hundreds of likes on Instagram photos, matches numbering in the hundreds and even thousands on Tinder and Bumble, yet how many guys hit on them in real life? It's certainly not in the triple digits.

The solution is for men to put down all the electronics and go outside to approach and meet women in the real world.

 

[biggoal]

I see this trend as a two-way problem on some dating sites: too many overly aggressive men and women with a sense of entitlement. Firstly, Tinder is probably near the bottom of the barrel as far as quality of people go. I knew quite a few men who had profiles on there, and I know I would never want any of my sisters dating them, so I’ll leave it at that. However, some paysites like Match attract a great deal of riff raff too.

Many dating sites are filled with what’s known as alpha-mailers: men who send the same crude responses to many different women simply based on their looks. However, if you’re a woman on these sites complaining about this, but yet never look at men's profiles and message them first yourself, then what type of results do you expect? Dream dates don’t just fall on to your lap.

Most men have the position of initiator, which will always ensure most women will have a major advantage when it comes to getting a date. Whether these are ‘quality’ men or not, and even if the experience is not enjoyable, still does not take away from the foundation of my argument. When you’re not in somebody else's shoes, you very likely do not have the ability to understand any related dilemma in an objective manner.

If you spent a year desperately looking for work and sending in resumes, then got one job offer, you’d be over the moon and instantly take it. However, if you were flooded with employers calling you daily, not only would you not send out a bunch of resumes, but you would sit back, take your time and pick the best.

Beautiful women have options. They have countless men “sliding into their DMs,” hundreds of likes on Instagram photos, matches numbering in the hundreds and even thousands on Tinder and Bumble, yet how many guys hit on them in real life? It's certainly not in the triple digits.

The solution is for men to put down all the electronics and go outside to approach and meet women in the real world.

When you been on dates with women on OLD, or interact with them have you ever asked them how many messages they get or the types? They can actually be kind of entertaining as an ice break.

It might vary by area too. Like in my area they get flooded by men young and old they tell me. It's actually the old men they say are usually more crude towards them, sending lewd or pervy messages, pics.

I really think that's why the last couple years in addition to Covid you're seeing a TON less women and a ton less decent women on OLD. They simply got flooded by men and it's too overwhelming and tired of dealing with the bs. Since Jan of 2020 IMO I'd say there has been a 50 percent reduction to decent women on OLD. On match now I see just mostly whales and washed up women. That was not the case two years ago. Even back then you could find a decent diamond in the rough on trash POF.

A few women ARE serial OLD daters. I mean this by they literally go out every other night on a dinner date with a SIMP. I had one like that who openly admitted it. One SIMP I saw on her facebook page sent flowers to her school she taught at 2 days after the date lol.

Match is a gold digger site with mostly post wall women now. You can read their profiles and clearly see they want a wealthy man by how they word it. Tends to attract simp men who are lawyers, doctors, nurses, accountants, successful business owners which just further inflates the womans expectations.

Have you ever tried facebook dating app? Free and seems to be more successful. How you send a short message is commenting on one of their pics. Usually have a simple cut and paste message ready to go. Sure it's generic, but takes min effort and nets better results because many people don't know how to message on FB dating and just automatically hit the like.

 

[Zimbabwe]

When you been on dates with women on OLD, or interact with them have you ever asked them how many messages they get or the types? They can actually be kind of entertaining as an ice break.

It might vary by area too. Like in my area they get flooded by men young and old they tell me. It's actually the old men they say are usually more crude towards them, sending lewd or pervy messages, pics.

I really think that's why the last couple years in addition to Covid you're seeing a TON less women and a ton less decent women on OLD. They simply got flooded by men and it's too overwhelming and tired of dealing with the bs. Since Jan of 2020 IMO I'd say there has been a 50 percent reduction to decent women on OLD. On match now I see just mostly whales and washed up women. That was not the case two years ago. Even back then you could find a decent diamond in the rough on trash POF.

A few women ARE serial OLD daters. I mean this by they literally go out every other night on a dinner date with a SIMP. I had one like that who openly admitted it. One SIMP I saw on her facebook page sent flowers to her school she taught at 2 days after the date lol.

Match is a gold digger site with mostly post wall women now. You can read their profiles and clearly see they want a wealthy man by how they word it. Tends to attract simp men who are lawyers, doctors, nurses, accountants, successful business owners which just further inflates the womans expectations.

Have you ever tried facebook dating app? Free and seems to be more successful. How you send a short message is commenting on one of their pics. Usually have a simple cut and paste message ready to go. Sure it's generic, but takes min effort and nets better results because many people don't know how to message on FB dating and just automatically hit the like.

I make a post encouraging men to go out into the real world and approach women for better odds, for some reason you decided to ignore that and instead suggest facebook dating.

What exactly is stopping you from daygame?

 

[biggoal]

I make a post encouraging men to go out into the real world and approach women for better odds, for some reason you decided to ignore that and instead suggest facebook dating.

What exactly is stopping you from daygame?

Its easier to swipe and measage people via the internet . I don't have a lot of hip, young places to go to around here.

Like the year before covid I went to the beach closest to me and saw hardly any young women on spring break. It was mostly snowbirds at the beach over 55 years old.

 

[Zimbabwe]

Its easier to swipe and measage people via the internet . I don't have a lot of hip, young places to go to around here.

Like the year before covid I went to the beach closest to me and saw hardly any young women on spring break. It was mostly snowbirds at the beach over 55 years old.

Going to McDonalds is also easier then a home cooked meal, but you know what is healthier?

 

[Genetic Error]

idk man its effort going out and doing it in person + takes extreme amount of balls + ive got no one to go out with and doing it alone is creepy

If you spent a year desperately looking for work and sending in resumes, then got one job offer, you’d be over the moon and instantly take it. However, if you were flooded with employers calling you daily, not only would you not send out a bunch of resumes, but you would sit back, take your time and pick the best.

this is why in online dating, i dont use any of the apps as all women are there are spammed daily with hundreds of messages.

I use instagram, find girls from my local area, specifically girls with barely any followers (below 400) which means theyre barely getting any messages, like their pic and if they like mine back then its an IOI and I can DM and 99% wont get rejected.

doing this method online is just way less time consuming, less painful rejections, and extreme less competition than girls on tinder

 

[SW15]

The solution is for men to put down all the electronics and go outside to approach and meet women in the real world.

Yes! I like how you ended the post with the solution. I agree with that solution and that is the path I am following. I have had the unfortunate situation in life of having used both dating websites and swipe apps at various points in my past. Both were bad experiences. The swipe app era is the website era on steroids.

In a real world approach, you get sychronous feedback. You can figure out what's working and what's not working a little more easily. Interactions behind an electronic screen confuse your brain and its ability to assess the situation.

It is more gratifying to meet women in the real world. We were meant to do that. It's the same as how we are meant to have real life and not jerk off on PornHub behind an electronic screen.

There are no shortcuts in the mating environment.

Real life approaching is very difficult though. So is building a social circle from scratch. Many men are lured in by the quick fix. Even with lousy ratios on swipe apps, many men can "approach" more women via swipes. A man can swipe on 500 to 1,000 women faster than he can approach 10 women in real life. A man can get more dates from a swipe app in 2 weeks of activity than it would take for him hitting the pavement hard with real life cold approaching for 3 months. The problem is that most of the app dates will be complete garbage. The women he gets dates from real life activity have a better chance of sticking longer. I will admit that it is horribly deflating when a date arranged in real life flakes or acts like a swipe app woman.

I see this trend as a two-way problem on some dating sites: too many overly aggressive men and women with a sense of entitlement. Firstly, Tinder is probably near the bottom of the barrel as far as quality of people go. I knew quite a few men who had profiles on there, and I know I would never want any of my sisters dating them, so I’ll leave it at that. However, some paysites like Match attract a great deal of riff raff too.

Women are so entitled because they have long swipe queues. It is common for a woman to have a swipe queue of 500 or more men. In the era before swipe apps, women's inboxes on Match, OkCupid, and PlentyofFish were 200-500 deep at any time.

Men get more aggressive in this type of environment. Men will swipe more to get more matches. They'll start swiping right on nearly everything. In the dating website era in the past, men would fire off more messages.

Many dating sites are filled with what’s known as alpha-mailers: men who send the same crude responses to many different women simply based on their looks. However, if you’re a woman on these sites complaining about this, but yet never look at men's profiles and message them first yourself, then what type of results do you expect? Dream dates don’t just fall on to your lap.

Copy & paste mass message was a bigger problem 10 years ago in the website era than it is today. Swipe apps were developed to reduce women's message inbox volume. However, it shifted the problem. Instead of having to read tons of messages in a Match/POF inbox, they have a longer swipe queue on Tinder/Bumble/Hinge.

Beautiful women have options. They have countless men “sliding into their DMs,” hundreds of likes on Instagram photos, matches numbering in the hundreds and even thousands on Tinder and Bumble, yet how many guys hit on them in real life? It's certainly not in the triple digits.

While women get hit on less in real life than on social media and swipe apps, they still often field a good number of approaches. It's in men's best interests to approach them online instead of sliding into their DMs or swiping on them.

If you spent a year desperately looking for work and sending in resumes, then got one job offer, you’d be over the moon and instantly take it. However, if you were flooded with employers calling you daily, not only would you not send out a bunch of resumes, but you would sit back, take your time and pick the best.

This is true. There is similarity between online resume submission and swipe apps/dating websites. However, the online resume submission world is a little bit more forgiving, even though employers get hundreds of applications for one position, a problem that has not changed at all since the 2008 downturn. If you read all the career advice articles, they tell you to get your jobs through networking. This is good, but if I had to rely on networking for my jobs, I would be a homeless man.

I am a manager now. Do you know how often I get people wanting to network with me? Almost never. Over the course of my career, I've sent out more genuine networking effort messages and got nowhere with almost all of them. Before I became a manager, I received one message on LinkedIn from a fellow alum of my MBA program who genuinely made an effort to network with me. Most of my LinkedIn DMs and invitations to connect are complete garbage too.

its effort going out and doing it in person + takes extreme amount of balls + ive got no one to go out with and doing it alone is creepy

It does take a lot of balls to in-person approach strangers. This is part of why night game has always been more popular than day game. Alcohol and/or drugs make it easier to approach. Approaching in a non-bar setting while sober is more difficult. In theory, you can have 1-2 drinks before doing grocery store, mall, or outdoor approaches, but this is more difficult to pull off. I have had a drink in a mall parking lot before going to do mall approaches. This happened pre-pandemic. I found the mall to be a more difficult approaching venue than the grocery store in those days among indoor retail options.

Approaching alone either in bars or in non-bar venues is not as creepy as you think it is. Most non-bar venues have women isolated from their friends. Approaching a woman after a fitness class you both attend is quite natural.

this is why in online dating, i dont use any of the apps as all women are there are spammed daily with hundreds of messages.

I use instagram, find girls from my local area, specifically girls with barely any followers (below 400) which means theyre barely getting any messages, like their pic and if they like mine back then its an IOI and I can DM and 99% wont get rejected.

doing this method online is just way less time consuming, less painful rejections, and extreme less competition than girls on tinder

You are doing the right thing in choosing Instagram over swipe apps.

 

[Mike32ct]

Even at its very best, OLD feels forced. Even if you like her profile and the text conversations seem to go well, you start to feel like “This better work in real life.”

You show up on a first date with this image of what you think she’s going to be like. Of course, she doesn’t necessarily fit that, and maybe your connection with her isn’t anywhere near as strong as you thought it was. Now you are trying to almost “force fit” the connection because you have some time investment into this chick already. It’s totally azz-backwards.

TLDR: I show up on date one feeling like I’m “supposed” to hit it off with her because the prior texting seemed to go ok. But that’s not reality. Just live in reality and meet people in real life instead.

 

[Scars]

You show up on a first date with this image of what you think she’s going to be like. Of course, she doesn’t necessarily fit that, and maybe your connection with her isn’t anywhere near as strong as you thought it was. Now you are trying to almost “force fit” the connection because you have some time investment into this chick already. It’s totally azz-backwards.

Ain't this the god damn truth lol

If there is anything I learned from OLD, it's that the women you're meeting is almost always gonna be 2 points below what you expect.

So if you think you're meeting a 9, expect a 7.

Think you're meeting a ****able 8? Nah she's actually a 6 bro.

I once met a female that actually ended up being what she looked like in her pictures.. then I realized why she never showed her teeth in them, because they were all kinds of fvcked up. Like her body was great, her face was great.. but the teeth..

I had already invested several weeks into talking to her and already made the trip to see her so we did end up having sex, but that made me take a break from OLD for awhile.

 

[SW15]

Even at its very best, OLD feels forced. Even if you like her profile and the text conversations seem to go well, you start to feel like “This better work in real life.”

You show up on a first date with this image of what you think she’s going to be like. Of course, she doesn’t necessarily fit that, and maybe your connection with her isn’t anywhere near as strong as you thought it was. Now you are trying to almost “force fit” the connection because you have some time investment into this chick already. It’s totally azz-backwards.

TLDR: I show up on date one feeling like I’m “supposed” to hit it off with her because the prior texting seemed to go ok. But that’s not reality. Just live in reality and meet people in real life instead.

I can identify with what you describe. This can be solved by doing video chatting with potential dates as part of the process. I think doing video chats can cut down on worthless first dates but it represents less of an efficiency than just going out and meeting people in person.

 

[Hamurabimbi]

I see this trend as a two-way problem on some dating sites: too many overly aggressive men and women with a sense of entitlement. Firstly, Tinder is probably near the bottom of the barrel as far as quality of people go. I knew quite a few men who had profiles on there, and I know I would never want any of my sisters dating them, so I’ll leave it at that. However, some paysites like Match attract a great deal of riff raff too.

Many dating sites are filled with what’s known as alpha-mailers: men who send the same crude responses to many different women simply based on their looks. However, if you’re a woman on these sites complaining about this, but yet never look at men's profiles and message them first yourself, then what type of results do you expect? Dream dates don’t just fall on to your lap.

Most men have the position of initiator, which will always ensure most women will have a major advantage when it comes to getting a date. Whether these are ‘quality’ men or not, and even if the experience is not enjoyable, still does not take away from the foundation of my argument. When you’re not in somebody else's shoes, you very likely do not have the ability to understand any related dilemma in an objective manner.

If you spent a year desperately looking for work and sending in resumes, then got one job offer, you’d be over the moon and instantly take it. However, if you were flooded with employers calling you daily, not only would you not send out a bunch of resumes, but you would sit back, take your time and pick the best.

Beautiful women have options. They have countless men “sliding into their DMs,” hundreds of likes on Instagram photos, matches numbering in the hundreds and even thousands on Tinder and Bumble, yet how many guys hit on them in real life? It's certainly not in the triple digits.

The solution is for men to put down all the electronics and go outside to approach and meet women in the real world.

I’d recommend OLD as an adjunct. One more path to the goal. If it works out; awesome. If not, just a bit if wasted time.

I found Tinder enjoyable. It was fun to look at the pictures, bios, IG & listen to the ladies Spotify. There’s also a little dopamine rush when Tinder notify’s me when I got a match.

As far as girl quality, I’m happy. My quality…when i was on Tinder, I was an alcoholic fvckboi. (Reformed now).

 

[SW15]

It probably works better if you've already got a good rotation (read: abundance), but by then why would you bother when there are better things to do.

I agree. If you already have an abundance mentality and actual abundance, why bother with a swipe?

I’d recommend OLD as an adjunct. One more path to the goal. If it works out; awesome. If not, just a bit if wasted time.

I found Tinder enjoyable. It was fun to look at the pictures, bios, IG & listen to the ladies Spotify. There’s also a little dopamine rush when Tinder notify’s me when I got a match.

As far as girl quality, I’m happy. My quality…when i was on Tinder, I was an alcoholic fvckboi. (Reformed now).

Tinder is a solid marketing channel if you are a fucckboi. The downside of Tinder is that it is 76% male now and a complete sausage fest. 7 years ago, it was likely better but still more men than women. Shirtless pics on Tinder could get you some right swipes.

Pre-pandemic, nightlife was probably a stronger choice for fucckbois though, especially the hot clubs.

 

[Bokanovsky]

I don't understand why so many people here are anti-OLD. Online dating is a tool. How you use it is up to you. Doesn't have to be your only tool but it's silly to suggest that it should never be used at all.

Getting dates lined up through OLD is extremely easy, at least in my experience. You can spend a few minutes here and there texting a woman and then arrange to meet her for drinks. That's a heck of a lot more efficient than cold approaching in real life. It's like using Uber vs. trying to hail a cab out on the street.

 

[SargeMaximus]

Most men have the position of initiator, which will always ensure most women will have a major advantage when it comes to getting a date.

just like approaching.

 

[Barrister]

The truth is that men are always in a "submissive" position whenever they pursue women. While it is not unheard of, women very rarely pursue men. It is almost always the other way around. Even women who are high interest will not openly pursue -- they just make it obvious they are open to being pursued to the one they are interested in.

OLD does give an advantage to women in that there is a huge surplus of men to women with the ratio. Women get bombarded with messages from many men at once on OLD. Therefore, most men will find themselves dating "down" from their real life SMV. This doesn't mean OLD is useless - but if you live in a very rural area it is possible that you may date so far down from your SMV as to make it close to that. OLD, however, is a good way to have a constant supply of women for sex if that is all you are after. But it is true you almost always pull hotter women through cold approach in real life.

No issue with using OLD -- but if you want to pull hotter and closer to your own SMV you will need to cold-approach.

 

[Bingo-Player]

Ain't this the god damn truth lol

If there is anything I learned from OLD, it's that the women you're meeting is almost always gonna be 2 points below what you expect.

Sometimes more in my local area the quality of women on these apps is literally bottom of the barrel

last month i thought a 7 was coming over for some casual sex turned out she was about 5 stone heavier than her photos

apparently she had "put some weight on over lockdown"

she brought a fvcking overnight bag FFS

The month before thought another 7 was coming over actually turned out to be a 5 at best

So even when you do manage to get sex from these apps your just getting girls that you wouldn't even consider IRL and basically just devaluing yourself for a ONS

All the apps are off my phone now i see no benefit to wasting my time on them

I've got no problem approaching girls in real life i get very very good results from night game , my biggest problem is and i suspect a lot of men are hitting the same problem is actually finding daytime / sober environments where the girls are

Aside from the gym i am coming up empty

There has to be a business niche to solve this .....i feel there must be as many single women out there who want to meet men in real life in a quiet non hostile environment !?!

Especially for those that are 30+ with shrinking social circles who don't want to be peacocking clubs till the early hours .....

 

[biggoal]

Sometimes more in my local area the quality of women on these apps is literally bottom of the barrel

last month i thought a 7 was coming over for some casual sex turned out she was about 5 stone heavier than her photos

apparently she had "put some weight on over lockdown"

she brought a fvcking overnight bag FFS

The month before thought another 7 was coming over actually turned out to be a 5 at best

So even when you do manage to get sex from these apps your just getting girls that you wouldn't even consider IRL and basically just devaluing yourself for a ONS

All the apps are off my phone now i see no benefit to wasting my time on them

I've got no problem approaching girls in real life i get very very good results from night game , my biggest problem is and i suspect a lot of men are hitting the same problem is actually finding daytime / sober environments where the girls are

Aside from the gym i am coming up empty

There has to be a business niche to solve this .....i feel there must be as many single women out there who want to meet men in real life in a quiet non hostile environment !?!

Especially for those that are 30+ with shrinking social circles who don't want to be peacocking clubs till the early hours .....

I posted on here how to solve this problem. When you get her number, plug it into one of those reverse phone searches.

You get her full name and then you can go looking for her facebook. You they can tell if she was using 8 year old pics on her profile or looks a lot heavier in her recent pics on FB.

In the last year this has saved me from wasting time on about 25 dates because they're fatter or look totally different.

 

[Barrister]

Sometimes more in my local area the quality of women on these apps is literally bottom of the barrel

last month i thought a 7 was coming over for some casual sex turned out she was about 5 stone heavier than her photos

apparently she had "put some weight on over lockdown"

she brought a fvcking overnight bag FFS

The month before thought another 7 was coming over actually turned out to be a 5 at best

So even when you do manage to get sex from these apps your just getting girls that you wouldn't even consider IRL and basically just devaluing yourself for a ONS

All the apps are off my phone now i see no benefit to wasting my time on them

I've got no problem approaching girls in real life i get very very good results from night game , my biggest problem is and i suspect a lot of men are hitting the same problem is actually finding daytime / sober environments where the girls are

Aside from the gym i am coming up empty

There has to be a business niche to solve this .....i feel there must be as many single women out there who want to meet men in real life in a quiet non hostile environment !?!

Especially for those that are 30+ with shrinking social circles who don't want to be peacocking clubs till the early hours .....

This is the biggest drawback of OLD. The "catfishing" that occurs. You can get adept at ferreting these out. If a woman has only pictures of her face, pictures at weird angles where it is difficult to see her body, or only filtered pictures you can basically assume she is very overweight and just swipe left.

 

[biggoal]

The truth is that men are always in a "submissive" position whenever they pursue women. While it is not unheard of, women very rarely pursue men. It is almost always the other way around. Even women who are high interest will not openly pursue -- they just make it obvious they are open to being pursued to the one they are interested in.

OLD does give an advantage to women in that there is a huge surplus of men to women with the ratio. Women get bombarded with messages from many men at once on OLD. Therefore, most men will find themselves dating "down" from their real life SMV. This doesn't mean OLD is useless - but if you live in a very rural area it is possible that you may date so far down from your SMV as to make it close to that. OLD, however, is a good way to have a constant supply of women for sex if that is all you are after. But it is true you almost always pull hotter women through cold approach in real life.

No issue with using OLD -- but if you want to pull hotter and closer to your own SMV you will need to cold-approach.

When I put in old zipcodes of my hometown of Stl, OR Miami, and Orlando the women look totally different in everything compared to the 60 mile radius around me. How is this?

 

[Barrister]

When I put in old zipcodes of my hometown of Stl, OR Miami, and Orlando the women look totally different in everything compared to the 60 mile radius around me. How is this?

You're really asking this? You claim you live in some old retirement community now and you're asking why women are different there than compared to two moderately sized cities and one major (and warm weather) city? Come on man.