Are Men Giving Up on Marriage Due to "Cheap Sex"?

[SW15]

‘Cheap sex’ is making men give up on marriage

Thanks to cheap sex, marriage may be doomed. The share of Americans ages 25-34 who are married dropped 13 percentage points from 2000 to 2014. A new book by sociologist Mark Regnerus blames this de…

nypost.com

This article was written in 2017 and the world has changed since then.

"Cheap sex" is only part of the reason.

Here's my take on the article...

1. The "cheap sex" most men receive is online porn. We've seen an increase in sexless men. More men are using PornHub and OnlyFans. A lot of men turn to porn because they are failing to get sex in real life. It is more difficult to get sex in real life. Additionally, I believe porn exposure does raise a man's standards for a commitment worthy woman. Men would like the woman they commit to, even just for a non-marital LTR, to be close in looks to a porn star/OnlyFans thot.

2. Swipe apps: Swipe apps are notoriously difficult to navigate. Most men have poor results on them. A lot of ghosting, flaking, "one date, no sex, no second date" type interactions, etc.

3. The top tier of men are doing better than ever. Since the 2000s (website era of dating), women have seen their options grow exponentially, leading to increased female fussiness for sex and relationships. Most men are getting ignored, turning to porn. However, top tier men are getting a larger share of the sex available. Top tier men might commit to 8.5+ women, but definitely not to the 5 or 6 with 500 matches on Tinder/Bumble/Hinge and tons of men sliding into their Instagram, Twitter, and LinkedIn DMs.

4. The cost of a failed marriage is too high. Even if a beta male manages to get into an LTR, he can get sex out of it without having to put a ring on it. A good percentage of beta males know the risks involved in marriage.

What are your takes?

 

[Plinco]

The purpose of marriage is to create children, but the relative cost of children have gone up for those reasons you mentioned, but also from the economic situation for many, cheap entertainment (video games, etc.), and because the social pressures are no longer there. People have lost interest in having kids.

 

[Dash Riprock]

I also think today's woman is less focused on getting married than women of 15-20 years ago. They have their own careers, $, and goals.

Most Gen Z and Y women I meet are more motivated than the Z and Y men I meet. Not all, but many/most. It's true that men have become more feminine with each new generation. Generally speaking, women are not attracted to feminine men, especially the high-quality hot women.

The average cost of raising one child right now in the US is $250-$300K so a woman can't afford (literally) to settle for a slacker man. Some betas, though doormats with women, are very good at what they do professionally and have big bank and are much more desirable partners for women who want marriage and kids as they place less emphasis on "looks" than men do. Women have always craved stability and a man who can lead and provide for a family. At some point, most women (even the hot ones) get sick of merry-go-round dating and riding the c*ck carousel as some call it.

If you're a man with decent looks, confident, good job with some $, and know what you want in life, you're easily in the top 5-10% and highly attractive to most women.

 

[eli77]

Not surprised marriage has gone downhill for the longest

 

[SW15]

Now, men want to get married because the game is so unbearable.

This isn't new. Post World War 2, men married much earlier in life during the 1950s-1970s. The 1970s was the early stages of men staying out on the market a little bit longer, but marrying early by the standards of 2000-present. I think in the 1970s-1980s, you could have found a lot of men who were glad to be getting married so as not to have to navigate the singles scene. Even in the 1970s-1980s, going to bars was a royal pain for men who didn't have a social circle.

I also think today's woman is less focused on getting married than women of 15-20 years ago. They have their own careers, $, and goals.

Yes. Women having their own careers, $, and goals is why provider style game hasn't been effective since at least 2000. If your game is centered around your employment based income, you need to be in at least the 90th percentile of income, but more likely 95th percentile or higher.

Net worth is a little different than income. There are men out there who are trust funders and other independently wealthy men. The money is family money and can date back multiple generations. These men might not have much in the way of employment income earnings, but their net worths are high and their investment income is usually strong. These guys often have it made because they have more free time to seduce women. Your net worth needs to be in the millions to execute this style of game.

Most Gen Z and Y women I meet are more motivated than the Z and Y men I meet. Not all, but many/most. It's true that men have become more feminine with each new generation. Generally speaking, women are not attracted to feminine men, especially the high-quality hot women.

Note that Gen Y and Millennial are interchangeable terms for the same group. That group is birth years 1982-1996.

Agree that Gen Y/Millennial men are more feminine than Boomer and Gen X men. An average beta male of 1980 was more masculine than an average beta male of 2010-present.

The average cost of raising one child right now in the US is $250-$300K so a woman can't afford (literally) to settle for a slacker man. Some betas, though doormats with women, are very good at what they do professionally and have big bank and are much more desirable partners for women who want marriage and kids as they place less emphasis on "looks" than men do. Women have always craved stability and a man who can lead and provide for a family. At some point, most women (even the hot ones) get sick of merry-go-round dating and riding the c*ck carousel as some call it.

I think this might apply to certain subsets of women. Female cashiers at Walmart are getting pregnant from tattooed, deadbeat dirtbag men.

How is it possible to be a doormat with women in romantic relationships yet an effective worker? I have a mid level managerial role in my occupation and I expect to be a leader/decision maker, which is more alpha. I view myself as a bit of a sigma male, which is the lone wolf alpha. You're correct it is possible to be successful in a career as a dutiful beta male. I think some more detail on this is useful so we all know what it looks like.

Somewhere around ages 30-35, many women become provider hunters. The comments from @Dash Riprock above illustrates many of their behaviors. Some will start to seek out more beta males that she wouldn't have desired 5-10 years earlier in her life.

I met a woman once who was in her mid-30s who wasn't on birth control, wanted to have unprotected sex with me, and wanted me to orgasm inside her. That wasn't going to happen with this sigma male. Some beta male might have done it. After a few months of unprotected sex, there's a good chance she would have ended up pregnant.

 

[Zimbabwe]

Most people lack the emotional maturity to even make a marriage work in the first place.

 

[SW15]

Most people lack the emotional maturity to even make a marriage work in the first place.

Some people believe that the concept of marriage isn't function in a post Second Wave Feminist era. BTW, Second Wave Feminism was roughly the 1970s-1980s.

If you get married in the post 1990 world, there's about an 80% chance AT LEAST ONE of the following 3 things will occur.

1. Divorce
2. Affair
3. Long periods of time where the relationship does not bring, but rather just a subpar existence that goes on due to inertia and life commitments

Number 3 can lead to Number 2 happening, which can lead to Number 1 happening.

Marriage does seem to work for a small subset of deeply religious people and some other outliers. That's the 20%.

There's a belief that men are not capable of monogamy via biology and women are only capable of shorter term monogamy, typically a period of 5 years or less.

If you believe in that viewpoint and wish to avoid traditional marriage, there are a few alternative options you have, as identified by Caleb Jones (aka Blackdragon).

1. Go into a monogamous marriage expecting it to fail at some point
2. Be a Player Forever
3. Be a celibate MGTOW
4. Only engage in short to medium term LTRs typically lasting 2-5 years
5. Be involved in some non-monogamous relational arrangement

Caleb Jones chose Option 5. My life has been closer to Option 4. @DEEZEDBRAH is an Option 2 guy and there are some other SoSuave members choosing Option 2.

 

[RangerMIke]

Human beings are not genetically disposed to having 'mate for life' tendencies. Monogamy is a societal construct, and with the breakdown of society it isn't a surprise that we are just going with our nature.

 

[DEEZEDBRAH]

Some people believe that the concept of marriage isn't function in a post Second Wave Feminist era. BTW, Second Wave Feminism was roughly the 1970s-1980s.

If you get married in the post 1990 world, there's about an 80% chance AT LEAST ONE of the following 3 things will occur.

1. Divorce
2. Affair
3. Long periods of time where the relationship does not bring, but rather just a subpar existence that goes on due to inertia and life commitments

Number 3 can lead to Number 2 happening, which can lead to Number 1 happening.

Marriage does seem to work for a small subset of deeply religious people and some other outliers. That's the 20%.

There's a belief that men are not capable of monogamy via biology and women are only capable of shorter term monogamy, typically a period of 5 years or less.

If you believe in that viewpoint and wish to avoid traditional marriage, there are a few alternative options you have, as identified by Caleb Jones (aka Blackdragon).

1. Go into a monogamous marriage expecting it to fail at some point
2. Be a Player Forever
3. Be a celibate MGTOW
4. Only engage in short to medium term LTRs typically lasting 2-5 years
5. Be involved in some non-monogamous relational arrangement

Caleb Jones chose Option 5. My life has been closer to Option 4. @DEEZEDBRAH is an Option 2 guy and there are some other SoSuave members choosing Option 2.

In fairness, I think I lack the emotional maturity to make a marriage work tbh. The concept of lineage and my blood line and tribe isn't lost on me. @darksprezzatura was pointing out in a thread, it's not purely just aesthetics but value added. I've never met ad baddie peak smv early twenties that wasn't catch and release material. Typically, it's a cute girl who will DhV in one way or another.

I'm wondering what our lives @everyone be if we didn't unplug. I hear the stories over the holidays and I wouldn't change my path for anything. Boomer Karen mother in-law over holidays. Crazy aunt and some sort of dramas. Absurd indulgence in consumerism. Few exceptions. Handful of buddies that pulled peak smv pre tinder. Most knew no better. 1 was gigantic playboy. Got it out of his system. Peak smv Girl pushed her chips all-in!

Fellas seeking a similar trad lifestyle ^^^ imo is the blueprint. Not after hot girl summer and college gang bangs. After skiing down cawk mountain. Ran through. Baby fever or single mom Stat.

The problem with playing the field is the series of ****ery you cannot help but come into contact with. I highly recommend meditation, healthy diet, fasting, exercise be it weights or calisthenics, and martial arts or a combat sport. The following has helped keep me looking younger. Still late nights and partying will tax your energy. Energy is finite as is time. More recently, I am focused on sovereignty and moving towards that at all costs.

I can fathom the pursuit of family and lineage but not in the western world. I think the Tate Bros have it setup similar to a ideal exit should things go tits up.

A creepy thought would be to acknowledge we may have lived out more than half our life. The question is how to proceed going forward with what's left? Marriage isn't bad if religious and trad practicing. Far too often I see religion as a consequence job for females seeking refuge after her best years and seeking a life preserver. Pickup in these arenas and they are modern women first. Feminism and everything else is going on. The religion is a shield for her stupidity. 50% divorce rate. 80% initiated by women. Any deep dive in pickup, Game, and female nature is very telling.

How anybody can follow the beaten path after I cannot comprehend?

 

[DEEZEDBRAH]

Human beings are not genetically disposed to having 'mate for life' tendencies. Monogamy is a societal construct, and with the breakdown of society it isn't a surprise that we are just going with our nature.

I don't think knowing was a thing of the past. Women skiing down cawk mountain. Play house as milk goes bad. Fellas would #next a woman aged out if not for rubbish laws. Our nature is on display. In the current state of the culture, it's not conducive to the times. Furthermore, the married cuckold with a single mom who isn't in the mood is clicks away from seeing his cherish in gang bangs when hot-and young.

I'm coming around from original take on family. Lineage is hardwired in a man's biology. The gender war is a con job. There's forces behind the scenes seeding the conflict and placing the state at the head of the household. Women are guilty from Go voting large government and running to the state and feminism.

There's always been only one enemy. Then again, we choose our destiny. Anything else is again obstacle to you and your purpose. There's one thing in the way of individual sovereignty. Your average black piller in the 50s would be working a **** factory job with wife and kids. Sane guy today is knocked out of the running and genes weeded out of existence. Even above average man has his work cut out.

When I came here, I was searching for answers. I'm still searching but the puzzle is coming together.

 

[Modern Man Advice]

‘Cheap sex’ is making men give up on marriage

Thanks to cheap sex, marriage may be doomed. The share of Americans ages 25-34 who are married dropped 13 percentage points from 2000 to 2014. A new book by sociologist Mark Regnerus blames this de…

nypost.com

This article was written in 2017 and the world has changed since then.

"Cheap sex" is only part of the reason.

Here's my take on the article...

1. The "cheap sex" most men receive is online porn. We've seen an increase in sexless men. More men are using PornHub and OnlyFans. A lot of men turn to porn because they are failing to get sex in real life. It is more difficult to get sex in real life. Additionally, I believe porn exposure does raise a man's standards for a commitment worthy woman. Men would like the woman they commit to, even just for a non-marital LTR, to be close in looks to a porn star/OnlyFans thot.

2. Swipe apps: Swipe apps are notoriously difficult to navigate. Most men have poor results on them. A lot of ghosting, flaking, "one date, no sex, no second date" type interactions, etc.

3. The top tier of men are doing better than ever. Since the 2000s (website era of dating), women have seen their options grow exponentially, leading to increased female fussiness for sex and relationships. Most men are getting ignored, turning to porn. However, top tier men are getting a larger share of the sex available. Top tier men might commit to 8.5+ women, but definitely not to the 5 or 6 with 500 matches on Tinder/Bumble/Hinge and tons of men sliding into their Instagram, Twitter, and LinkedIn DMs.

4. The cost of a failed marriage is too high. Even if a beta male manages to get into an LTR, he can get sex out of it without having to put a ring on it. A good percentage of beta males know the risks involved in marriage.

What are your takes?

Men are giving up on marriage because of the disconnect with the opposing gender, added to which marriage (as far as laws go) is a losing proposition for men. Women benefit from marriage, and especially from divorce which we all know is pretty much certain for 8 out of 10 newly weds. Men get simply the short end of the stick. There is simply no incentive to get married.

If men want to continue their sperm spree and generate offspring, they simply have domestic partners.


Modern Man Advice

 

[Bingo-Player]

Human beings are not genetically disposed to having 'mate for life' tendencies. Monogamy is a societal construct, and with the breakdown of society it isn't a surprise that we are just going with our nature.

Agreed

Although there are some very very co-dependent people out there that quite literally need someone constantly around them like oxygen to survive

One of my freinds was practically suicidal earlier in the year after being single for 6 months i spent a lot of time counselling him .... then i took him out one night and managed to open a set with a girl he liked within 3 months had her living with him all of a sudden his attitude has done a 360 he is sitting on a high horse looking down at us mere singletons and i am told he is planning to pop the question next year

So no i dont think men are giving up on marriage there are still a lot of men out there that believe in "the one" and the happy ever after fairytale ending , i think the smart players understand there is little to be gained even if you do find a woman of very sound mind the reality is dynamics in relationships constantly change

How you feel one year may not necessarily be how you feel in the next year..... that is reality so legally committing to someone for the rest of your life is a gamble far too many make without understanding how much they are staking

Previous generations almost did it as an expectation options were a lot more restricted and there was some social clout to be gained from the title

Now all i see it as is a money trap for consumerists

 

[wifehunter]

Marriage has failed.

1. the government hijacked it

2. parents don't produce 'marriage ready' people

Much like the IRS...It's become a trap to extract value from men.

 

[Zimbabwe]

Human beings are not genetically disposed to having 'mate for life' tendencies. Monogamy is a societal construct, and with the breakdown of society it isn't a surprise that we are just going with our nature.

False, humans have the longest childhood period of all animals. It takes 18 years to become an adult. Most animals become adults in months or a couple of years.

We are literally designed to stay together and raise children for decades, it's basic biology.

Some people believe that the concept of marriage isn't function in a post Second Wave Feminist era. BTW, Second Wave Feminism was roughly the 1970s-1980s.

If you get married in the post 1990 world, there's about an 80% chance AT LEAST ONE of the following 3 things will occur.

1. Divorce
2. Affair
3. Long periods of time where the relationship does not bring, but rather just a subpar existence that goes on due to inertia and life commitments

Number 3 can lead to Number 2 happening, which can lead to Number 1 happening.

Marriage does seem to work for a small subset of deeply religious people and some other outliers. That's the 20%.

There's a belief that men are not capable of monogamy via biology and women are only capable of shorter term monogamy, typically a period of 5 years or less.

If you believe in that viewpoint and wish to avoid traditional marriage, there are a few alternative options you have, as identified by Caleb Jones (aka Blackdragon).

1. Go into a monogamous marriage expecting it to fail at some point
2. Be a Player Forever
3. Be a celibate MGTOW
4. Only engage in short to medium term LTRs typically lasting 2-5 years
5. Be involved in some non-monogamous relational arrangement

Caleb Jones chose Option 5. My life has been closer to Option 4. @DEEZEDBRAH is an Option 2 guy and there are some other SoSuave members choosing Option 2.

Problem is they made divorce so easy and socially acceptable, it's even celebrated in the media. Instead of working out their problems like adults couples just take the easy way out and divorce.

 

[2Rocky]

Problem is they made divorce so easy and socially acceptable, it's even celebrated in the media. Instead of working out their problems like adults couples just take the easy way out and divorce.

Most couples just accept unhappiness. And after a long enough period I can see where starting over is no longer an option...I see couples married 30-40-50 years where I think "Man, I wouldn't want that!" . But then I see couples who are truly partners and I know it can be done....When i hear my Future MIL talk about her dead husband, IO know she has taught her daughter to cherish the man in her life. You gotta see what example these women have had when it comes to relationships....