What is the Black Pill?

[rjc149]

Purple pill. Huh. I guess that’s me.

 

[rjc149]

I also understand why a man would be "black pilled." I assume these are men who are physically unappealing to women due to factors that are not within their locus of control. Rather than view these has handicaps that can be overcome to a limited extent, they view them as disqualifiers for romantic/sexual interaction with women.

"Comparison is the thief of joy." -- Theodore Roosevelt.

Simply put, black pillers (who can assumed to be sub-6 even after thorough physical optimization), resent that they must be realistic about their league and date accordingly. Relentless comparison to Chad (facilitated by our beauty-obsessed, internet social media society) is the seed of that resentment and bitterness.

A 4 doesn't want to pursue and date women who are 4's. He would rather seethe in resentment and despair that Chad effortlessly brings the 8's and 9's back to his apartment after a night out. This defeatism then extends to the 4's who are within his grasp -- "they all want Chad too." That then devolves into the poisonous sh!t you see on SS sometimes. "It's OVER for [xyz]cels" or "if you're a manlet, kill yourself." I don't have a problem with ugly men resigning themselves to involuntary celibacy. I have a problem with the toxicity they spread to bring others down with them.

Any man, unless physically deformed, can get in killer shape, dress snappily, and become genuinely charming (which requires one to accept, with grace, his situation in life, and find humor and happiness in it). There's a woman out there for him. No, she's not going to look like a porn star. Yes, it's going to take some effort. But she's out there.

As for the men who claim "I've had many women, but they're all more trouble than they're worth so now I'm MGTOW" -- a man who has had moderate success with attractive women does not become MGOTW or black pilled. It doesn't happen.

"Lord, grant me the serenity to accept the things I cannot change,
the courage to change the things I can,
and the wisdom to know the difference."

 

[corrector]

That then devolves into the poisonous sh!t you see on SS sometimes. "It's OVER for [xyz]cels" or "if you're a manlet, kill yourself." I don't have a problem with ugly men resigning themselves to involuntary celibacy. I have a problem with the toxicity they spread to bring others down with them.

Really? This was posted here? Can you prove that? I never read anything like that here.

Any man, unless physically deformed, can get in killer shape, dress snappily, and become genuinely charming (which requires one to accept, with grace, his situation in life, and find humor and happiness in it). There's a woman out there for him. No, she's not going to look like a porn star. Yes, it's going to take some effort. But she's out there.

What do you mean by physically deformed? So you are saying only physically deformed people can be a sub-5?

As for the men who claim "I've had many women, but they're all more trouble than they're worth so now I'm MGTOW" -- a man who has had moderate success with attractive women does not become MGOTW or black pilled. It doesn't happen.

What is your definition of moderate success?

 

[Robert28]

Women are visual creatures,yes.But it’s nowhere as near as men are.A woman is more likely to get with a guy who’s a 5 in the looks department but a 9 in the social skills department,while as long as a woman is an 8,9 or 10,men will want to bang her.Her character may play a part in determining whether it’s a one night stand or LTR,but there would be no relationship to speak of if she was unattractive.

Women date up while men date down. Personality doesn’t matter as much to women as many think. I’ve seen many guys who were basically soulless rocks that had the personality of a tree with a good looking girl. I’ve seen many a Chad’s that probably struggled to tie their own shoes, with hot girlfriends. Personality doesn’t matter much to women until they’ve been kicked off the carousel, then they’re forced to like personality.

 

[rjc149]

Really? This was posted here? Can you prove that? I never read anything like that here.

I don't want to go researching this forum to dredge up proof that some people here post black pill sh!t. There was a thread a while back titled something to the effect of "height shaming has reached all new levels." MatureDJ seems to post a lot of these outrage flame threads. Yeah, maybe we need to just start calling these guys out.

What do you mean by physically deformed? So you are saying only physically deformed people can be a sub-5?

By physically deformed I mean that an individual is actually physically deformed, not simply aesthetically limited. No, someone who does not suffer from a physical deformity resulting from a medical condition or mutilation can be sub-5 by simply being ugly.

What is your definition of moderate success?

It would be someone who is able to, or has been able to in the recent past, have sexual intercourse with women that he would consider to be over a 6. In other words, a man who is able to get laid by a decently attractive woman has no reason to be MGTOW/black pill.

 

[rjc149]

Women date up while men date down. Personality doesn’t matter as much to women as many think. I’ve seen many guys who were basically soulless rocks that had the personality of a tree with a good looking girl. I’ve seen many a Chad’s that probably struggled to tie their own shoes, with hot girlfriends. Personality doesn’t matter much to women until they’ve been kicked off the carousel, then they’re forced to like personality.

Lol right on cue with the black pill Rob.

 

[Robert28]

Lol right on cue with the black pill Rob.

Prove what I said to be wrong.

 

[rjc149]

Prove what I said to be wrong.

An utterly pointless endeavor.

 

[corrector]

I don't want to go researching this forum to dredge up proof that some people here post black pill sh!t. There was a thread a while back titled something to the effect of "height shaming has reached all new levels." MatureDJ seems to post a lot of these outrage flame threads. Yeah, maybe we need to just start calling these guys out.


By physically deformed I mean that an individual is actually physically deformed, not simply aesthetically limited. No, someone who does not suffer from a physical deformity resulting from a medical condition or mutilation can be sub-5 by simply being ugly.


It would be someone who is able to, or has been able to in the recent past, have sexual intercourse with women that he would consider to be over a 6. In other words, a man who is able to get laid by a decently attractive woman has no reason to be MGTOW/black pill.

You are confusing MGTOW with MGTOW-monk mode. If MGTOW is blackpill then both versions are blackpill. That means there is an expectation for a healthy and balanced guy to actually and eventually land a relationship or marriage - or that trust factor - to get out of the blackpill umbrella. You dont just have to be on escortcel or monk mode of MTGOW. Its just low lying fruit for these discussions.

Under this logic even @RickTheToad is blackpill because he refused to get married properly to a woman who loved him. It means he cant trust a woman, who actually loves him, enough to marry her properly. If its because of cynical divorce rape reasons and he loses a good relationship on that then its also blackpill.

At the end of the day if you cant get a devoted wife who loves you thick or thin then whats the point?

For the peace of this board, unless someone self identifies as a blackpill incel and instead says they are blackpill MGTOW monk mode then it means they are volcel. Otherwise if this is used as a shaming tactic from bluepillers then I think the term blaxkpill can be tossed around. Even a chad can be blackpilled.

 

[rjc149]

You are confusing MGTOW with MGTOW-monk mode. If MGTOW is blackpill then both versions are blackpill. That means there is an expectation for a healthy and balanced guy to actually and eventually land a relationship or marriage - or that trust factor - to get out of the blackpill umbrella. You dont just have to be on escortcel or monk mode of MTGOW. Its just low lying fruit for these discussions.

Under this logic even @RickTheToad is blackpill because he refused to get married properly to a woman who loved him. It means he cant trust a woman, who actually loves him, enough to marry her properly. If its because of cynical divorce rape reasons and he loses a good relationship on that then its also blackpill.

At the end of the day if you cant get a devoted wife who loves you thick or thin then whats the point?

I'll gladly admit that I am confusing the jargon. What is "escortcel" and "volcel?" What is "MGTOW-monk mode" and how is it different from just regular MGTOW?

I'm not asking you to answer those questions. They are rhetorical, to demonstrate my point that anyone who directs their sexual frustration at women as a gender, or other factors outside of their control, is "MGTOW" or "black pill."

If your definition of success with women is a happy marriage to a devoted wife, that's fine. But that may require a few realizations that men don't like to accept.

One, a happy marriage to a devoted wife, for the long haul, may mean the wife has to be lower than you in SMV. Women eventually will lose attraction for their husbands if it becomes clear they can easily "level up." Being that "level up" on the front end is really the only way to ensure this is unlikely. The other way to be that "level up" is ongoing, pro-active relationship maintenance that some men simply don't have the energy and emotional reserve for. But many men do. Many men love being in relationships, they're great partners, and their women stay with them even if they can get a taller, handsomer, richer, "more alpha" guy etc. etc.

Two, that a happy marriage to a devoted wife usually has an expiration date. Romance and sexual excitement fades with the lowering of our "love" hormones, usually 6 months to 2 years later. Whether your wife stays devoted to you after that expiration date is never something you can determine or vet on the front end. People change, and women are fickle -- especially attractive ones with lots of options to replace those love hormones anew. It's a risk you take. If you come out on top, the rewards are immense. But the pitfalls can be immense also.

Being red pill, to me, is accepting that women come and go, accepting that they can hurt you, accepting that they are emotionally-driven and fickle, and loving them anyways, but going into relationships with both eyes open and two hands on the wheel.

 

[DonJuanjr]

I'm not asking you to answer those questions. They are rhetorical, to demonstrate my point that anyone who directs their sexual frustration at women as a gender, or other factors outside of their control, is "MGTOW" or "black pill."

I don't agree with this. The first guy I heard use the acronym mgtow back in 2015 was very much at peace. He was a guy on youtube, that was just illustrating that he has no intention on cohabitating with a female. Or any kind of monogomy with a female. He was all about being on his purpose, and having ONS with women, and paying hookers. He'd rather spend his money on himself than a woman. He was not bitter towards females at all. I think this is what MGTOW originally was about.

 

[mjb3617]

I don't agree with this. The first guy I heard use the acronym mgtow back in 2015 was very much at peace. He was a guy on youtube, that was just illustrating that he has no intention on cohabitating with a female. Or any kind of monogomy with a female. He was all about being on his purpose, and having ONS with women, and paying hookers. He'd rather spend his money on himself than a woman. He was not bitter towards females at all. I think this is what MGTOW originally was about.

That's correct. MGTOW originally was defined as no marriage, no cohabitation, and no relationships. Hating women wasn't part of it. At least from what I've read and seen.

Seems like a lot of bitter and angry guys have hijacked the term. You can see this on the subreddit for MGTOW. A lot of the older members lament how the sub has gone downhill because there's a lot of woman haters participating there these days.

Same goes for the RP community IMO. I haven't been involved with RP for any considerable length of time, but Ive seen a lot of anger and hate towards women. And it's not the "anger" phase of newly RPd guys. It's pure hate.

 

[rjc149]

I don't agree with this. The first guy I heard use the acronym mgtow back in 2015 was very much at peace. He was a guy on youtube, that was just illustrating that he has no intention on cohabitating with a female. Or any kind of monogomy with a female. He was all about being on his purpose, and having ONS with women, and paying hookers. He'd rather spend his money on himself than a woman. He was not bitter towards females at all. I think this is what MGTOW originally was about.

I wasn't aware that there was an original definition of MGTOW, and that it was simply not having monogamous LTR's. I conflated it with its more recent, and more prevalent, iterations of sexually frustrated men throwing their hands up at the whole "women" thing and bitterly resigning themselves to involuntary celibacy.

If the definition of MGTOW is men simply not conforming to the institution of LTR's and marriage, and being happy bachelors, then I would say I'm on that boat too. I'm not against either for myself, I'm simply not actively seeking it. The thing is a lot of men who claim "MGTOW" aren't happy about being bachelors. Their voices are the loudest and have come to define the mentality.

 

[DonJuanjr]

And a lot of men who claim "MGTOW" aren't happy about being bachelors. Their voices are the loudest.

I would say they are not really MGTOW. Because their end goal is still having a woman in their life. They are not going their own way. They are being left behind.

 

[rjc149]

Okay, so I'll stand corrected going forward that MGTOW and black pill are not the same thing, and that women-hating incels appropriated 'red pill' and 'MGTOW' to legitimize themselves.

That doesn't really change my opinion that Rollo Tomassi, who coined the term "red pill" (unless I'm mistaken) doesn't come off as a charming seducer who loves women. So I suppose we all appropriate these terms, to a certain extent, to fit our own views.

 

[corrector]

Okay, so I'll stand corrected going forward that MGTOW and black pill are not the same thing, and that women-hating incels appropriated 'red pill' and 'MGTOW' to legitimize themselves.

That doesn't really change my opinion that Rollo Tomassi, who coined the term "red pill" (unless I'm mistaken) doesn't come off as a charming seducer who loves women. So I suppose we all appropriate these terms, to a certain extent, to fit our own views.

Chads can be blackpill too. Then monk mode is a legitimate subcategory of MTGOW. How do you claim incels are exclusively blackpill or monk mode, which is presumptive volcel is incel? Volcel is voluntary celibacy.

 

[rjc149]

Chads can be blackpill too. Then monk mode is a legitimate subcategory of MTGOW. How do you claim incels are exclusively blackpill or monk mode, which is presumptive volcel is incel? Volcel is voluntary celibacy.

I think this is getting a bit too far into the weeds with the terminology.

I don’t claim all men who are involuntarily celibate are also black pill. As is often required on an Internet forum, I’m making generalizations that men who lash out at women do so because they aren’t getting what they want from women. Whether that’s sex, or emotional security, or fulfillment of their blue pill idealism.

 

[zekko]

I would say they are not really MGTOW. Because their end goal is still having a woman in their life. They are not going their own way. They are being left behind.

I think they're being left behind either way. In either case, it is a response to women and to the situation to become MGTOW. It's basically "Women are hopeless, so I'm either going to become a player or just be celibate". I've seen people define MGTOW either way.

If it's simply that a guy wants to be a player all along, how is that any different from being Red Pill or PUA? MGTOW is a response to the state of women.

 

[DonJuanjr]

If it's simply that a guy wants to be a player all along, how is that any different from being Red Pill or PUA?

I would say that if the goal of the red pilled/pua is reoccuring sexual partners then they are not mgtow. If the pua/redpilled are only interested in pump and dumping, they are mgtow.

 

[Barrister]

Chads can be blackpill too. Then monk mode is a legitimate subcategory of MTGOW. How do you claim incels are exclusively blackpill or monk mode, which is presumptive volcel is incel? Volcel is voluntary celibacy.

I think we’re getting too carried away with labels.