A Warning to Men Who Don't Understand Their Value

[CBear]

Warning: This is a long one. This is a little summary of the break up process of my LTR of the past 1 year 3 months. In addition to this being a way to cope for me by writing it out without every detail, this is for all the men who have hope for a certain girl, get emotionally attached to someone, and give their all to someone even when there is a huge difference in value between the two people, and then get trapped into something ugly.

This starts off about a year and a half ago when I got my Associate's degree. I had a strong mindset and a lot of self respect for myself. I was talking to multiple woman. I was applying to jobs and was looking for references. I added a middle age female co-worker on facebook and sent her a message asking if I could use her as a reference. She agreed enthusiastically and messaged me right after if she could set me up on a date with her daughter. She proceeded to send me multiple pictures. I said "sure" and didn't think much of it until she messaged me 3 weeks later again and tried to set me up more aggressively this time. I ended up going on 1 date with her and thought she was cute but wasn't impressed and didn't call her back as she appeared to have a lot of baggage. For reference, here is a summary of us (most of this I had an idea of in the beginning, but got to understand more as time went by.

-I'm about to turn 24, she's about to turn 29.
-I'm working on my Master's right now, she has no education.
-She's American, I'm European.
-She's in debt, I have a lot of money saved up.
-I have a great support group, she doesn't have friends and mostly mentions negative things about friends or co-workers she has had (It took over a year for me to get her to see an old friend of hers)
-She's very cute but friends and family have told me that I'm way above her in terms of looks.
-She smoked weed every day, I don't smoke.
-She has bipolar, I have a history of anger management problems.
-She takes anti-depressants, I don't take meds.
-Her parents are still married but sleep around on the side.
-Had an 8 year LTR with a guy who she got engaged to and then cheated on him (her excuse was he stopped paying attention to her after getting engaged with her).
-She's been with around 30 people in a span of 3 years.
-Been with plenty of women.
-She's been "r***d" multiple times (found out that besides trauma by females when she was younger, the rest of the scenarios were from partners at the time and one date that ended up having multiple people involved).
-Multiple threesomes (multiple with one of her r*** abusers)

After contacting me a month later, she offered me to come to her place to have s3x. After this happened, she offered me a threesome, to which I refused and started ignoring her. She continued messaging me, however, so I continued having s3x with her a couple times a week. She behaved so well during the first 6 months or so and during this time, it turned from having an f buddy, to having someone to talk to with a pretty awesome personality (when understanding redpill, you understand that when they're interested in you, they will do anything to get along with you. Examples of all the changes she made with me; She went from hardcore liberal to ultra conservative, she stopped smoking weed completely, she started going to school, she started cooking for me). After about 8 months, I wanted to move out and she wanted to move out with me, I agreed if she paid half. After moving in, We started having little fights here and there that occurred once or twice a week. Over time the fights increased and got worse. A little after moving in, I wanted out after she came back from the Dr with an increase in her antidepressant dose and she threatened suicide afterwards. Her family got involved and it got pretty ugly. I stayed to make sure she was okay. After this, I continually tried to go on dates with her and when things were good, they were great. But over time, the cooking decreased, the cleanliness of the apartment decreased (I cleaned multiple times but she would get upset and say that she wanted to do it her way), I felt like I was spending less time with my buddies and family, that I was going less to the gym, and she would get easily upset over the most stupid things and get her mother involved. Last month, we were getting ready for a boating trip with buddies and she still wasn't ready from 10am-3pm. Things escalated and I told her I'd go myself but she threatened to break up with me. I called my buddies and told them that I wouldn't make it and she she started berating me and they heard, to which she got embarrassed. A day later, my buddies advised me to finish it with her. I left the apartment and she threatened suicide once again. She sent a terrible terrible accusation to my mother about me to which my mother never wanted to see her again. Her mom wanted me to call her to check up on her so I did and she said she wanted me to be with her and that she doesn't see life past me. Me seeing her turned into one more chance for her. A couple days ago, we got into another fight after I told her that my mom invited me over for dinner. She told me that she doesn't like my mom and that she didn't want me to see her. After this, I parked by the nearest store and told her that I'm being isolated and that I'm breaking up with her. When we got to the apartment, she deactivated my phone as it was under her plan and she called her mom to pick her up. I got in her way to try and get her to reactivate the phone but she didn't and left. Afterwards, her and her mom accused me of being physically abusive towards her and toxic. The next day, they both pleaded that I stay with her and that she's worthy of being my bride (lol). I haven't budged. Yesterday night and this morning, she told me that she wants me to be with her and her mom tried to send pictures of past memories but I stuck what I wanted and today, she's nonstop texting me about how bad I've been to her and that if I truly loved her, I wouldn't have left. It went from me being a God send and the perfect man and the love of my life to being an abuser, toxic, using her, and the reason she's in debt. Slowly but surely, I am figuring out what to do with the phone and I am figuring out how to handle the lease properly. I am sad about the whole situation but super relieved, and it helps that I have an amazing support group around me. Obviously I haven't been perfect and when provoked, I have said extremely hurtful things that I regret and have tried to make up for (flowers, dates, apologies, etc.) But it takes 2 to tango and when someone always blames you for the fight and can't see their part in it/says they did nothing wrong, the communication will always have a weak foundation. I get along with most people in my life and have always handled arguments well.

Overall, I am thankful for all of it and am not resentful as I have learned a lot in the past year and a half that I will keep in mind and use for the rest of my life. I have a long way to go and I definitely grew as a man and will come out of it harder than I was before. I'm posting this to warn men who jump quickly for aggressively interested women (especially if they have a rocky past) and see the correlation and to not have hope for anything working out. Just have fun and leave (if you're even able to risk that). Giving someone your all when they are obviously not best for you because of some good times can turn ugly, can ruin your life, and can help you realize that they truly don't love you and even resent you for everything you tried to help them with. They only love you when it benefits them.

 

[soulforge]

Your to blame for this outcome!

This girl had more red flags, than a red flags production factory & you pretty much wifed her up? Really!

This one was nothing more than a few bangs, maybe a threesome or two, then move the fuk on!

Honestly man, I see dudes get into relationships with EXTREMELY broken & damaged woman.. Then make a thread on SS on how they didn't see it coming lol

 

[Barrister]

Warning: This is a long one. This is a little summary of the break up process of my LTR of the past 1 year 3 months. In addition to this being a way to cope for me by writing it out without every detail, this is for all the men who have hope for a certain girl, get emotionally attached to someone, and give their all to someone even when there is a huge difference in value between the two people, and then get trapped into something ugly.

This starts off about a year and a half ago when I got my Associate's degree. I had a strong mindset and a lot of self respect for myself. I was talking to multiple woman. I was applying to jobs and was looking for references. I added a middle age female co-worker on facebook and sent her a message asking if I could use her as a reference. She agreed enthusiastically and messaged me right after if she could set me up on a date with her daughter. She proceeded to send me multiple pictures. I said "sure" and didn't think much of it until she messaged me 3 weeks later again and tried to set me up more aggressively this time. I ended up going on 1 date with her and thought she was cute but wasn't impressed and didn't call her back as she appeared to have a lot of baggage. For reference, here is a summary of us (most of this I had an idea of in the beginning, but got to understand more as time went by.

-I'm about to turn 24, she's about to turn 29.
-I'm working on my Master's right now, she has no education.
-She's American, I'm European.
-She's in debt, I have a lot of money saved up.
-I have a great support group, she doesn't have friends and mostly mentions negative things about friends or co-workers she has had (It took over a year for me to get her to see an old friend of hers)
-She's very cute but friends and family have told me that I'm way above her in terms of looks.
-She smoked weed every day, I don't smoke.
-She has bipolar, I have a history of anger management problems.
-She takes anti-depressants, I don't take meds.
-Her parents are still married but sleep around on the side.
-Had an 8 year LTR with a guy who she got engaged to and then cheated on him (her excuse was he stopped paying attention to her after getting engaged with her).
-She's been with around 30 people in a span of 3 years.
-Been with plenty of women.
-She's been "r***d" multiple times (found out that besides trauma by females when she was younger, the rest of the scenarios were from partners at the time and one date that ended up having multiple people involved).
-Multiple threesomes (multiple with one of her r*** abusers)

After contacting me a month later, she offered me to come to her place to have s3x. After this happened, she offered me a threesome, to which I refused and started ignoring her. She continued messaging me, however, so I continued having s3x with her a couple times a week. She behaved so well during the first 6 months or so and during this time, it turned from having an f buddy, to having someone to talk to with a pretty awesome personality (when understanding redpill, you understand that when they're interested in you, they will do anything to get along with you. Examples of all the changes she made with me; She went from hardcore liberal to ultra conservative, she stopped smoking weed completely, she started going to school, she started cooking for me). After about 8 months, I wanted to move out and she wanted to move out with me, I agreed if she paid half. After moving in, We started having little fights here and there that occurred once or twice a week. Over time the fights increased and got worse. A little after moving in, I wanted out after she came back from the Dr with an increase in her antidepressant dose and she threatened suicide afterwards. Her family got involved and it got pretty ugly. I stayed to make sure she was okay. After this, I continually tried to go on dates with her and when things were good, they were great. But over time, the cooking decreased, the cleanliness of the apartment decreased (I cleaned multiple times but she would get upset and say that she wanted to do it her way), I felt like I was spending less time with my buddies and family, that I was going less to the gym, and she would get easily upset over the most stupid things and get her mother involved. Last month, we were getting ready for a boating trip with buddies and she still wasn't ready from 10am-3pm. Things escalated and I told her I'd go myself but she threatened to break up with me. I called my buddies and told them that I wouldn't make it and she she started berating me and they heard, to which she got embarrassed. A day later, my buddies advised me to finish it with her. I left the apartment and she threatened suicide once again. She sent a terrible terrible accusation to my mother about me to which my mother never wanted to see her again. Her mom wanted me to call her to check up on her so I did and she said she wanted me to be with her and that she doesn't see life past me. Me seeing her turned into one more chance for her. A couple days ago, we got into another fight after I told her that my mom invited me over for dinner. She told me that she doesn't like my mom and that she didn't want me to see her. After this, I parked by the nearest store and told her that I'm being isolated and that I'm breaking up with her. When we got to the apartment, she deactivated my phone as it was under her plan and she called her mom to pick her up. I got in her way to try and get her to reactivate the phone but she didn't and left. Afterwards, her and her mom accused me of being physically abusive towards her and toxic. The next day, they both pleaded that I stay with her and that she's worthy of being my bride (lol). I haven't budged. Yesterday night and this morning, she told me that she wants me to be with her and her mom tried to send pictures of past memories but I stuck what I wanted and today, she's nonstop texting me about how bad I've been to her and that if I truly loved her, I wouldn't have left. It went from me being a God send and the perfect man and the love of my life to being an abuser, toxic, using her, and the reason she's in debt. Slowly but surely, I am figuring out what to do with the phone and I am figuring out how to handle the lease properly. I am sad about the whole situation but super relieved, and it helps that I have an amazing support group around me. Obviously I haven't been perfect and when provoked, I have said extremely hurtful things that I regret and have tried to make up for (flowers, dates, apologies, etc.) But it takes 2 to tango and when someone always blames you for the fight and can't see their part in it/says they did nothing wrong, the communication will always have a weak foundation. I get along with most people in my life and have always handled arguments well.

Overall, I am thankful for all of it and am not resentful as I have learned a lot in the past year and a half that I will keep in mind and use for the rest of my life. I have a long way to go and I definitely grew as a man and will come out of it harder than I was before. I'm posting this to warn men who jump quickly for aggressively interested women (especially if they have a rocky past) and see the correlation and to not have hope for anything working out. Just have fun and leave (if you're even able to risk that). Giving someone your all when they are obviously not best for you because of some good times can turn ugly, can ruin your life, and can help you realize that they truly don't love you and even resent you for everything you tried to help them with. They only love you when it benefits them.

You let yourself get too comfortable with her. I have learned that a first impression of a woman is very important. Because once you begin having sex it is easy to let that cloud your original judgment. Your rational self wrote her off in the beginning. But once you got addicted to the sex, you were more forgiving and let it spiral. Not being judgy because we have all been there - I have similar experiences.

 

[CBear]

Your to blame for this outcome!

This girl had more red flags, than a red flags production factory & you pretty much wifed her up? Really!

This one was nothing more than a few bangs, maybe a threesome or two, then move the fuk on!

Honestly man, I see dudes get into relationships with EXTREMELY broken & damaged woman.. Then make a thread on SS on how they didn't see it coming lol

I never said that I didn't see it coming. I never expected or wanted "marriage" (which became part of the problem). I'm posting this to let men know that no matter how well they've got their head on straight and no matter how masculine they are, if they give it a shot with anyone like this, no matter if it's just sleeping around, it can get very difficult to get out of, not mentally, but physically. And I know that you see guys making threads about damaged women. I know because you've made plenty of these. That's why I saw this as a safe space to write.

 

[JayAce]

You moved in way too quickly, but it happens. I’ve been there. A lot of people here have been there. I’m glad you’re finally escaping this woman of a year and 3 months.

You bring up that she was on anti-depressants. A lot of the women I’ve dated or hung out with have been on them. There’s been a few that actually weren’t too bad, but yes a lot of them were crazy. It’s quite alarming how many women out there are on them.

 

[oldmanofthesea]

So many common themes here that I see with so many women:

• Attempts to control and isolate you so they feel they have 100% of your everything (generally driven by fear and insecurity)
• Victimization (she is always the victim in every circumstance and you and/or others are always the villain - further evidence is how she mostly complained about her friends or others)
• Cycling between devaluation and idolization - At first you are the best thing to ever happen to them, then you are toxic and abusive and the worst thing to happen to them, then the next day you are the best thing to ever happen to them and won't you please stay! (The women who are like this are those who have some sort of mental illness, personality disorder, or biological issue that causes them to have even stronger emotions than most women, and to be completely and utterly unable to control the emotions. They are even more emotionally driven than typical women are so when you combine that with the increase in emotions, it's just awful - a real rollercoaster. Great sex though)
• Getting parents involved and leveraging parents as both enablement and assistants in manipulation (proves the parents taught them to manipulate and the whole family is dysfunctional)

I too experienced all of the above in my last relationship.

 

[mjb3617]

Been there done that. Fortunately it was only a few months. However, I was a BP idiot and learned a ton of lessons.

Thanks for sharing your story and hope you recover from that nightmare.

 

[soulforge]

You moved in way too quickly, but it happens. I’ve been there. A lot of people here have been there. I’m glad you’re finally escaping this woman of a year and 3 months.

You bring up that she was on anti-depressants. A lot of the women I’ve dated or hung out with have been on them. There’s been a few that actually weren’t too bad, but yes a lot of them were crazy. It’s quite alarming how many women out there are on them.

I don't think this is a matter of moving too quickly.. It's not a matter of timing at all.

The real matter is, this chick had literally 16.000000x red flags, including being graped multiple times.. Being graped in threesomes etc..

The girls mother was literally begging him to take her off her hands.. And op had this girl cooking for him, like a good wife? Jeeez!!

 

[Barrister]

I don't think this is a matter of moving too quickly.. It's not a matter of timing at all.

The real matter is, this chick had literally 16.000000x red flags, including being graped multiple times.. Being graped in threesomes etc..

The girls mother was literally begging him to take her off her hands.. And op had this girl cooking for him, like a good wife? Jeeez!!

If she is hot enough let’s not act like we wouldn’t make the same mistake. Literally have banged multiple women I shouldn’t have just because they were hot. I’ll be the first to admit it’s dumb.

 

[wifehunter]

 

[CAPSLOCK BANDIT]

This is the average 30 year old single woman today in my opinion

 

[Georgepithyou]

So many common themes here that I see with so many women:

• Attempts to control and isolate you so they feel they have 100% of your everything (generally driven by fear and insecurity)
• Victimization (she is always the victim in every circumstance and you and/or others are always the villain - further evidence is how she mostly complained about her friends or others)
• Cycling between devaluation and idolization - At first you are the best thing to ever happen to them, then you are toxic and abusive and the worst thing to happen to them, then the next day you are the best thing to ever happen to them and won't you please stay! (The women who are like this are those who have some sort of mental illness, personality disorder, or biological issue that causes them to have even stronger emotions than most women, and to be completely and utterly unable to control the emotions. They are even more emotionally driven than typical women are so when you combine that with the increase in emotions, it's just awful - a real rollercoaster. Great sex though)
• Getting parents involved and leveraging parents as both enablement and assistants in manipulation (proves the parents taught them to manipulate and the whole family is dysfunctional)

I too experienced all of the above in my last relationship.

The thing is we know these red flags but we choose to ignore them if the woman is hot. The hotter a woman is the more red flags we tolerate.

What you said is a perfect description of my ex, i knew from the start she would be trouble but i chose to ignore it and regret it 6 months later when we broke up.

 

[mjb3617]

The thing is we know these red flags but we choose to ignore them if the woman is hot. The hotter a woman is the more red flags we tolerate.

What you said is a perfect description of my ex, i knew from the start she would be trouble but i chose to ignore it and regret it 6 months later when we broke up.

100% truth. You gotta learn somehow though and you won't soon forget those lessons.

I think the saying goes a wise man learns from his mistakes. A smart man learns from the mistakes of others.

 

[oldmanofthesea]

The thing is we know these red flags but we choose to ignore them if the woman is hot. The hotter a woman is the more red flags we tolerate.

What you said is a perfect description of my ex, i knew from the start she would be trouble but i chose to ignore it and regret it 6 months later when we broke up.

Very true. I've gotten better with experience but I wasn't prepared for a girl this hot to constantly beg me back when I'd dump her for violating my boundaries. Learned my lesson there.

 

[metalwater]

This story is not that uncommon.

The stuff I can see/smell as part of this slippery slope.

- she started small fights, and over time starting big fights.
- she got lazy.
- maximum gaslight/push pull

she is an emotional addict. not happy or not satisfied unless major stimulation is going on.
- New relationship with you is a big stimulation but has a shelf life.
- Sex and hardcore sex with you and threesome, stimulation but has a shelf life.
- Small fights become bigger to continue to be stimulating.
- gaslighting and push-pull to get a reaction from you good or bad (stimulating).
- meds, trying to control stimulations


She is/was and always will be in it for her. She is also a woman so can not see very far into the future about medium and long-term results. All she can see is what feels today or at the moment. Some version of this happens to almost every man, each deals with it in different ways. Many will just become her slave and beg. You are ahead of most if you did not do that.

The key in your story is the small fights. Of course, all the red flags are interesting and could have been considered more. But the small fights, I guess you lost every one of those because they got bigger. If you win the other stops fighting. Winning a fight with a woman is a skill that is not intiutive. A few of the guys in this forum can teach that. Keep watching what they tell.

 

[CBear]

This story is not that uncommon.

The stuff I can see/smell as part of this slippery slope.

- she started small fights, and over time starting big fights.
- she got lazy.
- maximum gaslight/push pull

she is an emotional addict. not happy or not satisfied unless major stimulation is going on.
- New relationship with you is a big stimulation but has a shelf life.
- Sex and hardcore sex with you and threesome, stimulation but has a shelf life.
- Small fights become bigger to continue to be stimulating.
- gaslighting and push-pull to get a reaction from you good or bad (stimulating).
- meds, trying to control stimulations


She is/was and always will be in it for her. She is also a woman so can not see very far into the future about medium and long-term results. All she can see is what feels today or at the moment. Some version of this happens to almost every man, each deals with it in different ways. Many will just become her slave and beg. You are ahead of most if you did not do that.

The key in your story is the small fights. Of course, all the red flags are interesting and could have been considered more. But the small fights, I guess you lost every one of those because they got bigger. If you win the other stops fighting. Winning a fight with a woman is a skill that is not intiutive. A few of the guys in this forum can teach that. Keep watching what they tell.

Right well I'm extremely assertive and stubborn when it comes to arguments and I tend to reflect on everything that led to whatever outcome and how each person contributed to it pretty logically and impartially. It's exhausting explaining how I played my part and then another person says "I didn't do anything wrong, it's your fault". There's no winning other than walking away or ignoring but then that also turned into a bigger issue each time such as me walking away for the boat trip after she threatened to break up and then her chasing me down afterwards. Like you said, it's just stimulation. Many times deep down, that stimulation is craved by the woman for the crazy make up sex afterwards.

 

[soulforge]

The thing is we know these red flags but we choose to ignore them if the woman is hot. The hotter a woman is the more red flags we tolerate.

What you said is a perfect description of my ex, i knew from the start she would be trouble but i chose to ignore it and regret it 6 months later when we broke up.

She also instinctively realises that she has you hooked because of her looks & sex.

She understands & knows deep down, how broken she is as a person & often questions herself, why is this dude even with me? My life is a complete mess.

What is lacking in him, that he has lowered his standards to the degree where he is willing to date a complete mess like me?

Right off the start she recognises your thirst & therefore treats you with disrespect throughout the relationship.

 

[soulforge]

This story is not that uncommon.

The stuff I can see/smell as part of this slippery slope.

- she started small fights, and over time starting big fights.
- she got lazy.
- maximum gaslight/push pull

she is an emotional addict. not happy or not satisfied unless major stimulation is going on.
- New relationship with you is a big stimulation but has a shelf life.
- Sex and hardcore sex with you and threesome, stimulation but has a shelf life.
- Small fights become bigger to continue to be stimulating.
- gaslighting and push-pull to get a reaction from you good or bad (stimulating).
- meds, trying to control stimulations


She is/was and always will be in it for her. She is also a woman so can not see very far into the future about medium and long-term results. All she can see is what feels today or at the moment. Some version of this happens to almost every man, each deals with it in different ways. Many will just become her slave and beg. You are ahead of most if you did not do that.

The key in your story is the small fights. Of course, all the red flags are interesting and could have been considered more. But the small fights, I guess you lost every one of those because they got bigger. If you win the other stops fighting. Winning a fight with a woman is a skill that is not intiutive. A few of the guys in this forum can teach that. Keep watching what they tell.

She is only argues with you, because she is losing respect or has lost respect for you, therefore also losing attraction.

Why? Because you didn't check her or walk away the moment she stepped out of line.

 

[metalwater]

She is only argues with you, because she is losing respect or has lost respect for you, therefore also losing attraction.

Why? Because you didn't check her or walk away the moment she stepped out of line.

exactly. that's why I called out that specific. if she is STARTING small arguments, it's time to either next her or do an inventory on the environment and figure it out. no value in talking or interviewing her or engaging in any fight, she can be managed only indirectly by managing the environment. Your right, definitely should never ever give in to keep the peace.

It is impossible to win a direct fight with a woman. No logic or arguing or being tuff will win. The only way to win.. is indirect together with resolve. The problem is that she is the one that is the judge; no matter if your right or wrong she can simply call herself the winner and you a loser. As long as she is the judge. To win, simply do not obey her decisions and do not accept her as a judge. At the same time manage the environment and ensure others she deals with knows who you are and what you are such that they really would rather be your friend than a competitor.

75% of the tuff love advice will help achieve exactly that.

Often if we just walk away (and really that is the best sometimes or often) the same problems will come next time and the time after that.

 

[Georgepithyou]

She understands & knows deep down, how broken she is as a person & often questions herself, why is this dude even with me? My life is a complete

That really is an eye opening insight. I never really thought of it that way but it does explain why they act so clingy early on.