How old were you when you discovered this forum and what year and has it changed at all?
- Thread starter eli77
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mjb3617
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2021, 35 years old. Late to the game for sure. Was BP until earlier this year. I have had girlfriends and been mildly successful with women, but need to up my game. Bad breakup was the catalyst along with a few other personal issues.
Fortunately, I work in an industry with exposure to a lot of different women so I can interact with them daily and do the work that needs to be done.
Fortunately, I work in an industry with exposure to a lot of different women so I can interact with them daily and do the work that needs to be done.
good stuff feel free to dm me
I was a lurker on this thread back in 2014. I joined in 2019 after a pretty bad breakup, because a lot of the archived posts gave me good insight into female behavior. A lot of that stuff is gold.
As of the last year or so, there's a lot of bitter, misogynist black pill bullsh!t coinciding with the rise of incel subculture. Threads titled to the tune of "if you're under 6' you're a manlet" and "it's over for chincels" and "women only want mega Chad" became more common, usually featuring a Youtube video intended to humiliate short men, or Asian men, or balding men etc. I took a 4-month or so break after I realized this toxic sh!t was actually affecting my mood.
I came back and realized this is simply where the "manosphere" is going. Self-pity, victimhood, misogynist resentment. I guess I haven't jumped ship quite yet.
As of the last year or so, there's a lot of bitter, misogynist black pill bullsh!t coinciding with the rise of incel subculture. Threads titled to the tune of "if you're under 6' you're a manlet" and "it's over for chincels" and "women only want mega Chad" became more common, usually featuring a Youtube video intended to humiliate short men, or Asian men, or balding men etc. I took a 4-month or so break after I realized this toxic sh!t was actually affecting my mood.
I came back and realized this is simply where the "manosphere" is going. Self-pity, victimhood, misogynist resentment. I guess I haven't jumped ship quite yet.
Serenity
Moderator
I was 22, I joined the same year I discovered the forum, 2013. I found this forum looking for answers about my lack of success with women and to overcome anxiety. A lot has changed since then. I eradicated my anxiety, worked through a bunch of other issues, started getting women and having sex again. In 2015 I started a LTR, in 2019 we got married and last year we got a son. My life is great.
Georgepithyou
Banned
24 discovered it last year, I'm surprised i never knew about this place before. Someobody recommended it when i was on the rooshv forum while Rooshs whole Christian crusade was going on.
Mike32ct
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32 lol
SW15
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I think you're right on the more black pill direction of the Manosphere.
Male sexlessness rates have been increasing, a trend that pre-dates the pandemic. The pandemic is likely making that even worse.
I will only rarely use words with "cel" in them or "Chad". I refuse to get sucked into that.
It's a tough environment out there. That's a legit point.
awesome where are you located ? feel free to dm me
Serenity
Moderator
Norway. Why do you ask people to DM you? There's no need to say it, they will if they want to anyways.
oldmanofthesea
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Congratulations Serenity. Did not know you were married and have a son. It is nice to hear of successful outcomes here, rare as they may be.
Serenity
Moderator
Thank you! I think there are many more than we think who went on to have their measure of success, but I think most of them leave the forum when the problem they came here for got solved.
I stayed because I find the topics discussed here personally interesting and to offer up my experience where it's relevant. I don't often mention being married, having a son and living a happy life. It's not what most guys here seek right off the bat and some are just going to have their bitterness triggered by it. Using that card as an argument in a discussion is weak anyways, I'd rather apply more solid reasoning to assert my points. If it can't stand on its own then it's probably not a strong argument.
Barrister
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To be fair, most of the "black pill" posts come from the same 4-5 posters. Most of us here are still strictly Red Pill and enjoy gaming women. I agree with you that the black pill sh1t gets really old - but this site is still great and most of the posters are not defeated. I wouldn't let a very vocal minority drive you away. Just focus on what you want.
I think the line between red and black pill is becoming more tenuous and blurred. It wasn't just those recurrent posters here, it's the higher levels of misogynist toxicity that I've noticed in seduction and men's improvement communities in general.
I define "red pill" (although I did not come up with the term) as understanding the biological mechanics of female behavior -- why they are turned off by neediness, why they are turned on by confidence, why they are attracted to taller men, why they are attracted to pre-selected men, why they nest with subservient men, why they leave betas for alphas, but also why they leave alphas for betas, etc.
Understanding, and accepting with grace, that these mechanics are always in play when dealing with women, is the how one succeeds with women -- learning to use those mechanics to your advantage in dating.
But a lot of 'red pill' circles are angry and resentful at those biological mechanics. Maybe that's considered "black pill" but I see a lot of resentful, bitter and downright misogynist material coming from self-professed red pill guys like Rich Cooper, Rollo Tomassi etc. The Rational Male is so underscored with resentment for women that one could not possibly view RT as a seducer who loves women. He sounds like a beta dude who's been burned by women over and over, and hates them for it. Is that what "taking the red pill" is? I hope not.
building an offline network thats why
Barrister
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It's interesting you think Rollo came across somewhat black pill in RM. I actually am recently re-reading it and I don't pick up on any black pill vibes. He seems to genuinely enjoy women in spite of some of the natural instincts that can drive us up a wall. I think he is fairly adept at pointing them out -- but never comes across as being bitter about it. Merely it is what it is.
This is my personal opinion and I am certainly not the authority on the subject, but if you are truly Red Pill you don't hate or despise women's nature. They can be maddening to us but it is simply how they are wired. Part of Red Pill is having that awareness and then knowing what to do with it to get the most of women. And this isn't taking advantage of them -- it is actually what they want.
Serenity
Moderator
Absolutely, even the black pillers have a point at some level. Point being to have the ability to see where they're coming from, to understand how it makes sense to them and also to see that the experiences they're basing their assertions on are not false. It's mostly what they make of their experiences that sets them back rather than propels them forward into a more positive existence.
There's only one objective truth, but there's infinite ways of interpreting it.
Here's my advice about giving advice. If the person you're giving it to is unwilling to take it then it's not a complete loss, it's a public forum, who knows how many others may read it and find it very useful even if they're not even registered so they can reply to it. We always have to ask whether we are giving advice to actually provide something of value or to just pat ourselves on the back for being a good boy.
Pook is definitely one of my major inspirations, whether his writings are fact or fiction doesn't matter to me, most of the attitudes he illustrated are pure gold. I too came here looking to get women, but the rabbit hole was MUCH deeper than I ever could imagine. I went far outside that scope to fix my issues and it also had positive effects far outside that scope. Many people who have known me before, during and after have told me straight up how much of a positive difference they notice, completely unsolicited.
The hard part of consuming so much information was figuring out what works and what doesn't. Some things you can only learn through experience, I learned a lot of those things and I can't for the life of me write it down and make it comprehensible to those who need it the most. They just have to put themselves out there and think in ways they have never thought before.
I definitely don't get any black pill vibes from RM, but I don't get the sense that he's writing it from a place of fondness for women either. The "money/sperm" dichotomy of female nature long precedes RM (as he terms "alpha fvcks beta bux") but Rollo Tomassi largely repackaged and delivered this dichotomy with his own perspective on it. That perspective, to me, seemed quite bleak and indignant, when it really doesn't need to be.
There was a poster a while back, he will go unnamed but the assumption is that he's a supporter of a certain DC-area sports team. I wrote a post criticizing RT and the RM, and he got angry and nasty with me. At the end, he claimed he wasn't a misogynist, just that he was "red pill." Clearly, there was an underlying anger and resentment he has for women. He views "red pill" as a validating echo chamber for that anger, and saw my critique of RM as a challenge to his validation system -- as a challenge to him personally. And he's not alone. That's what I mean by the misogynist toxicity becoming more prevalent in the "manosphere" which I do believe is generally a positive and constructive space for men to improve their lives. I think the term "red pill" is more and more often used as a legitimizer for that toxicity by those who do, indeed, resent women. I, like you, firmly believe that being red pill can, and should, exist independently of resentment for women.
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