Covid 19 Vaccine

[corrector]

so tell me, who use these masks? no one, people use the surgical or the most common just some cloth to pass the "laws" to force the mask use, its not disinformation, is knowing how the public and people in general work, but your ignorance in taking more then one angle to state your point, you belive people would buy these masks, but chances are no one would do save for those who was forced or have money and are that fearfull.

most people don't use these and also the same people who don't use these are the ones who use mass transportation, funny no?

I don't know, I might see the odd person out there who has those masks on, and I certainly wear them as well as my father. But it goes back to my stance on my own vaccine hesitancy....why should I take a vaccine if I have a bunch of N95 masks, or if I get the vaccine and get infected (even though there is no serious illness on my end), I could potentially infect my mother since even the health authorities will say that there is not much of a difference between unvaccinated and vaccinated spreading infection to others. If my mom refused to get vaccinated because her strong religious beliefs against it, then I'm not helping my mother by getting vaccinated myself as I can still pass this thing on to her. This is not even looking at side-effects.

Again I'm probably preaching to your choir with my "why should I really get a vaccine and take a side-effect risk?", but as long as I can afford to keep buying N95 masks, I won't see the point of vaccination because it contributes to the idea that I can do something to reduce the risk of catching the virus in the first place AND not worry about side-effects. But I'm still honoring the science and not subscribing to conspiracy theories about the virus itself. Unfortunately, I have allowed conspiracy theorist and my mother to dampen my resolve to get vaccinated, and I have to work myself up to eventually get vaccinated.

 

[EyeBRollin]

there is not much of a difference between unvaccinated and vaccinated spreading infection to others.

This is just false. What source did you get this?

 

[BackInTheGame78]

Even if you prove them wrong, they won't admit or are just blind to it.

They are a huge liability on public health and somehow think they're some heroes. Fvcking ridiculous.

Psychologically what happens is once someone becomes convinced of something no matter what facts become available, they will not change their opinion because they will have to admit they are wrong and it will be a blow to their ego. So they will go to great lengths, even comical sometimes, to avoid having to admit they are wrong, even tho logically they know they are.

This is what 95% of the people against the vaccine/COVID facts are about.

 

[corrector]

I'll have to disagree with your assessment that my opinion is anti-social. My stance on not wearing a mask is not anti-social since the "science" behind wearing a mask has been contradicted numerous times.

There have been several instances where the flip flopping on masks is comical. Take Dr. Fauci for example. He's supposed to be the leading "authority" on the "science" of wearing masks, yet he has changed his position on it numerous times.

Then take a look at the so called "red-states" where masks weren't required. They had a lot less cases than other states where there were more mask mandates, restrictions, and lockdown measures present.

My opinion is based on these facts. Also, I live in a US state where there has been a huge push to have everyone vaccinated and guess what? They're claiming there's a "high" transmission of covid currently. They're definition of "high" transmission? Over 100 cases per week. You could reasonably assume that high transmission would be defined as thousands of people being infected per week. That's not the case however.

First, it was we need masks until we get the vaccine. The vaccine arrived and the vaccinated no longer needed masks. Then, they said the unvaccinated need to wear masks to protect the vaccinated? Now, you need the vaccine and the masks?

Like another poster said, they keep moving the goal posts. I'll keep my anti-social opinion and still stand firm on it. Covid is going to be around for awhile and we are going to have to learn to live with it. But giving in to the hysteria that's been created is only going to disrupt our lives. We've already seen what the lockdowns did. Never in the history of mankind have we quarantined HEALTHY people like that.

I'll have to disagree with your assessment that my opinion is anti-social. My stance on not wearing a mask is not anti-social since the "science" behind wearing a mask has been contradicted numerous times.

There have been several instances where the flip flopping on masks is comical. Take Dr. Fauci for example. He's supposed to be the leading "authority" on the "science" of wearing masks, yet he has changed his position on it numerous times.

Then take a look at the so called "red-states" where masks weren't required. They had a lot less cases than other states where there were more mask mandates, restrictions, and lockdown measures present.

My opinion is based on these facts. Also, I live in a US state where there has been a huge push to have everyone vaccinated and guess what? They're claiming there's a "high" transmission of covid currently. They're definition of "high" transmission? Over 100 cases per week. You could reasonably assume that high transmission would be defined as thousands of people being infected per week. That's not the case however.

First, it was we need masks until we get the vaccine. The vaccine arrived and the vaccinated no longer needed masks. Then, they said the unvaccinated need to wear masks to protect the vaccinated? Now, you need the vaccine and the masks?

Like another poster said, they keep moving the goal posts. I'll keep my anti-social opinion and still stand firm on it. Covid is going to be around for awhile and we are going to have to learn to live with it. But giving in to the hysteria that's been created is only going to disrupt our lives. We've already seen what the lockdowns did. Never in the history of mankind have we quarantined HEALTHY people like that.

As @Alvafe pointed out, we have a fundamental disagreement on the definition of masks. I'm referring to N95 masks, not surgical masks.

Assuming that nuance doesn't make a difference and you are going from a government-legal angle, Your State has low transmission (even if they say its high) so it's doing well after getting people vaccinated. You live in a Blue-State? The masks are not to protect the vaccinated, it's to protect the unvaccinated. So long as you have unvaccinated mixing with vaccinated, they have to keep the mask mandates on. I never heard its to protect the vaccinated, and if everyone was vaccinated (ie you had vaccine passports to enter malls and indoor spaces), then they will remove the mask-mandate since everyone is vaccinated. However, if they do that, then you'll complain its a violation of your civil rights that you have to show a passport or you have to put a mask on? I guess rather than doing that its easier just to have everyone wear a mask rather than show a passport to see who has to wear a mask and who doesn't, right?

When I say anti-social, it means, if enough people think like you then it results in health-systems being overwhelmed, Some degree of communal mind-set is needed in order to ensure that anyone who needs to use the hospital isn't turned away because they are out of capacity. Would it be fair for me to say that if you ever got infected from covid and need to use the hospital, then please don't call 911 and just deal with it at home because of your selfish mind-set? Or, if anyone got sick from covid because you spread it to them that you will be liable for their hospital bills? Would you take ownership of that? Then your are justly entitled to your mind-set if that's the case because you are aware of the impact of your mind-set and choices with other people apart from yourself and take ownership of it. But can you really own that?

 

[corrector]

This is just false. What source did you get this?

For the Delta variant, not the Alpha variant or original strain. I believe off hand the CDC or some studies taken in the UK, I'll get back on that.

 

[Fruitbat]

Maybe your immune system is compromised. Here's the CDC's official guidance on the MMR vaccine.

Measles, Mumps, and Rubella (MMR) Vaccination | CDC

What Everyone should know about the MMR vaccine. What is the MMRV vaccines? Who should and should not get these vaccines? How well do these vaccines work, and what are the possible side effects?

www.cdc.gov

Im not talking about MMR. I’ve had tetanus shots about 3 times

 

[EyeBRollin]

For the Delta variant, not the Alpha variant or original strain. I believe off hand the CDC or some studies taken in the UK, I'll get back on that.

The CDC did NOT ever say the likelihood of contracting Delta is the same for vaccinated vs unvaccinated.

 

[Billtx49]

Psychologically what happens is once someone becomes convinced of something no matter what facts become available, they will not change their opinion because they will have to admit they are wrong and it will be a blow to their ego. So they will go to great lengths, even comical sometimes, to avoid having to admit they are wrong, even tho logically they know they are.

This is what 95% of the people against the vaccine/COVID facts are about.

Yep, we were just introduced to the Mercola novax cult leader. Sadly enough many adults believe (his) vitamins are better than vaccines hype and they are not having their children get routine vaccinations like a normal parent would.

NYTimes.com loves the guy, their headline on him from 7/26/21:
The Most Influential Spreader of Coronavirus Misinformation Online

How does he spread the misinformation you ask? His minions on Social media sites, possibly even on this Forum also…

 

[BackInTheGame78]

Yep, we were just introduced to the Mercola novax cult leader. Sadly enough many adults believe (his) vitamins are better than vaccines hype and they are not having their children get routine vaccinations like a normal parent would.

NYTimes.com loves the guy, their headline on him from 7/26/21:
The Most Influential Spreader of Coronavirus Misinformation Online

How does he spread the misinformation you ask? His minions on Social media sites, possibly even on this Forum also…

Don't get me wrong...I take vitamins as well and they definitely have their place in an overall health regiment. Especially D3, Magnesium and K2 to deal with the calcium issues plaguing the US, but let's be real...vitamins are not the answer to protection against pandemics. They may help, but they certainly aren't going to stop you from getting sick. And your immune response determines how sick you get from COVID not necessarily your healthiness which is something a lot of people can't get through their head. Plenty of people who are healthy with no issues have dealt with serious consequences from it.

 

[Billtx49]

but let's be real...vitamins are not the answer to protection against pandemics. They may help, but they certainly aren't going to stop you from getting sick.

Yes, very true

 

[BackInTheGame78]

Another Hard L for vaccine opponents:

Latest study shows vaccinations protect the lungs of patients against COVID. This agrees with other studies that have shown viral loads are contained in the nose/throat area and not allowed to spread to other areas of the body in vaccinated people.

"In vaccinated patients with "breakthrough" COVID-19 infections, the disease may not affect the lungs as much as in unvaccinated patients, new data from India suggest. Doctors there studied 205 adults with confirmed COVID-19, more than half under age 50. Among those studied, 14% were fully vaccinated, 15% were partially vaccinated, and the rest were unvaccinated. All had computed tomography (CT) scans of their lungs. Researchers scored each of the five lobes of each lung on a scale ranging from 0 for no virus involvement of the lobe, to 5, which meant more than 75% of the lobe was affected. Out of a possible 25, the average lung CT severity score was 0 in fully vaccinated patients, 4 in partially vaccinated patients, and 11 in the unvaccinated group, according to a report posted on medRxiv on Tuesday ahead of peer review."

 

[Guy69JackBlue]

Another Hard L for vaccine opponents:

Latest study shows vaccinations protect the lungs of patients against COVID. This agrees with other studies that have shown viral loads are contained in the nose/throat area and not allowed to spread to other areas of the body in vaccinated people.

"In vaccinated patients with "breakthrough" COVID-19 infections, the disease may not affect the lungs as much as in unvaccinated patients, new data from India suggest. Doctors there studied 205 adults with confirmed COVID-19, more than half under age 50. Among those studied, 14% were fully vaccinated, 15% were partially vaccinated, and the rest were unvaccinated. All had computed tomography (CT) scans of their lungs. Researchers scored each of the five lobes of each lung on a scale ranging from 0 for no virus involvement of the lobe, to 5, which meant more than 75% of the lobe was affected. Out of a possible 25, the average lung CT severity score was 0 in fully vaccinated patients, 4 in partially vaccinated patients, and 11 in the unvaccinated group, according to a report posted on medRxiv on Tuesday ahead of peer review."

They need to get to work on updated vaccines.

 

[BackInTheGame78]

You are completely mistaken about the nature of this vaccine. It is nothing like prior vaccines. It's really shocking how self-righteous the pro vaccine crowd is about following the science when they literally don't even understand the basic fundamentals of the vaccine they are pushing. I say that as someone that took the vaccine after the measured calculus but I would never say that it is totally safe for everyone.

This research and mRNA technology has been around for a long time, over 30 years...to insinuate that is suddenly just became known and used is disingenuous. I am not saying you are but a lot of other people seem to make that claim.

It just hasn't been used before. Like anything else, there is a potential for something to go wrong, but if you are dead what does that matter?

 

[BackInTheGame78]

With the 7-day average of COVID-19 deaths in the U.S. currently at 350 and rising, public health experts are arguing that recent deaths were largely avoidable due to widespread availability of effective vaccines.

“For me as a physician, this is a national tragedy,” University of Alabama at Birmingham Associate Dean for Global Health Dr. Michael Saag said on Yahoo Finance Live (video above). “These deaths are largely preventable, and from a public health perspective, that’s inexcusable that we can be in this country and be experiencing this kind of problem.”


Pretty much sums up my thoughts exactly.

 

[Guy69JackBlue]

With the 7-day average of COVID-19 deaths in the U.S. currently at 350 and rising, public health experts are arguing that recent deaths were largely avoidable due to widespread availability of effective vaccines.

“For me as a physician, this is a national tragedy,” University of Alabama at Birmingham Associate Dean for Global Health Dr. Michael Saag said on Yahoo Finance Live (video above). “These deaths are largely preventable, and from a public health perspective, that’s inexcusable that we can be in this country and be experiencing this kind of problem.”


Pretty much sums up my thoughts exactly.

But but but...

Bill Gates! George Soros! Communism! Microchips!

 

[BackInTheGame78]

I'm saying that to implicate that this vaccine is somehow safe because traditional vaccines are safe is absolutely fallacious. Technology is night and day. I'm not making the crude argument that it's dangerous just because it's new. This vaccine is much more invasive because of what it actually does.

That's true, but this is the gateway to curing genetic defects and numerous other things via this technology...

 

[zekko]

It's really shocking how self-righteous the pro vaccine crowd is about following the science when they literally don't even understand the basic fundamentals of the vaccine they are pushing

Plenty of self-righteousness on both sides. If I had a dollar for every time I've heard or read something like "Anyone who takes the vaccine is a sheep" or "Anyone who takes the vaccine is as dumb as a stone", I'd be able to take a nice vacation. Yes, this vaccine works differently than traditional vaccines, but that doesn't automatically make it a bad thing.

 

[Guy69JackBlue]

If there's any good news about this Delta variant, it's that it already went through India and the UK.... and it basically was real bad for about 2 months before cases went down.

Maybe because of vaccinations? Maybe herd immunity? Maybe social distancing measures? Maybe a combination of all 3.

 

[RickTheToad]

Strawman #1.



Strawman #2.



Lets re-iterate:


This is wrong. Mask are better protection than no mask. The quality of mask filtration varies by type but all masks are an improvement over no mask. The data on this is conclusive.

You go girl with your bad self.

 

[RickTheToad]

Im not talking about MMR. I’ve had tetanus shots about 3 times

Well, one is supposed to get a tetanus shot after certain infections, lesions and bites. The tetanus shot, since it covers a variety of different causes usually requires 3 doses for complete immunity. Additionally, a tetanus infection is due to a bacteria, not a virus. Completely different animal dude.