Tales from marriage and child support

[Pandora]

Hi Pan,
Well you have certainly sparked a lot of interest with your post...Some years ago,maybe twelve or so, I drew attention to the work of John Calhoun an American Ethologist who created rodent Utopias and watched their development and seemingly inevitable extinction... https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Behavioral_sink If you are unfamiliar with this you might like to take a squizz...The Rodents in the disintegrating stages of their Societies exhibited parallels with our own...Increasing Violence,murder,sexual deviance and more relevent to your post a collapse in the birth rate,Mothers neglecting to care for their young,and most interestingly the sexes hiving off to lead solitary lives in spaces previously used for breeding Families,asexuality became the norm,with the Males spending their time grooming themselves...Happy days,the cannibalism is yet to come LOL.

Yes I have heard of this rodent Utopia experiment. It sounds very interesting. So basically when a society gets too rich its members become deviant. This devience leads to the breakdown of that society. Thanks for the link I am reading it now.

 

[Pandora]

This probably is true for a lot of men, but that never was a good reason. It's no more steady than not being married, in fact it's safer to not marry if steady sex is a high priority and one should do a damn thorough job scrutinizing every aspect of a woman before marriage. Unfortunately most guys prefer staying in the matrix, to cling to their comfortable beliefs rather than put things under a microscope to see what's actually going on.

So I forgot to add. His wife did not let him smash until after the engagement ring. He said the moment after he smashed he gained post nut clarity. During his post nut clarity he laid in his bed thinking " omg, what have I done". He said the main reason he even proposed was because of lust not "love". Now he is married in a virtually sexless marriage. He said I should not do it.

 

[Serenity]

So I forgot to add. His wife did not let him smash until after the engagement ring. He said the moment after he smashed he gained post nut clarity. During his post nut clarity he laid in his bed thinking " omg, what have I done". He said the main reason he even proposed was because of lust not "love". Now he is married in a virtually sexless marriage. He said I should not do it.

Lol, that's what happens when women withhold sex. Always test drive before committing. He should divorce her.

 

[TheNewStyle123]

This is the kicker. They are holding men biologically hostage. Everyman wants to reproduce but it comes at a terrible cost.

Exactly!! Now I'm reconsidering if I even want kids.

 

[KindredSpiritzz]

Thanks for sharing this. Can I ask you a personal touchy question? I know you love your kids and all but....are you saying that kids were almost not worth the stress of the court system. Also, if you didn't have the kids would the divorce have gone very smoothly?

Because the ONLY reason I am even considering marriage is because of kids. But everyone tells me it aint worth it. They say you dont even get to raise those kids.

yeah, kids werent worth the stress in my life and the financial hardship. When we first separated everything was amicable but as the years progress and she dated and found out she couldnt get near the level of man i was resentment and bitterness kicked in towards me. Then as she got married the 3rd and 4th time she started turning the kids against me, saying i was a bad father, putting crap in their heads and she delighted in turning the financial knife into me when and where she could making my life as difficult as she could while pretending to those around here she was this fine christian woman raising 3 kids on her own, blah blah. As the kids got 13ish they started working and didnt want to come spend time with daddy. Between that and her bad mouthing me to the kids we have grown apart and im paying on kids i seldom see. The youngest wont even talk to me anymore cause of all the crap my ex put in her head in her apparent desire to have her new husband "play dad" to our kids. Only time i hear from my kids is when they need something otherwise they cant even return a text or phone call. Had to find out my youngest was in the emergency room when the bill came in the mail. I get no say so concerning anything medical for them. At this point i feel like a sperm donor that financed someone elses kids for them and ruined my life in the process. I don't even care anymore, im just counting down the 12 months left i have in this purgatory. If i could, id go back and get a vasectomy at age 20 knowing what i know now. When we got divorced she was all into co parenting and being civil and those kids growing up with me in their lives. That all went out the window when other men starting parading thru her life. She's a disgusting human being and i hope she gets breast cancer and dies before she can enjoy to much of her early retirement here next year at age 55, all financed by me. Kids were not worth it.

 

[Pandora]

yeah, kids werent worth the stress in my life and the financial hardship. When we first separated everything was amicable but as the years progress and she dated and found out she couldnt get near the level of man i was resentment and bitterness kicked in towards me. Then as she got married the 3rd and 4th time she started turning the kids against me, saying i was a bad father, putting crap in their heads and she delighted in turning the financial knife into me when and where she could making my life as difficult as she could while pretending to those around here she was this fine christian woman raising 3 kids on her own, blah blah. As the kids got 13ish they started working and didnt want to come spend time with daddy. Between that and her bad mouthing me to the kids we have grown apart and im paying on kids i seldom see. The youngest wont even talk to me anymore cause of all the crap my ex put in her head in her apparent desire to have her new husband "play dad" to our kids. Only time i hear from my kids is when they need something otherwise they cant even return a text or phone call. Had to find out my youngest was in the emergency room when the bill came in the mail. I get no say so concerning anything medical for them. At this point i feel like a sperm donor that financed someone elses kids for them and ruined my life in the process. I don't even care anymore, im just counting down the 12 months left i have in this purgatory. If i could, id go back and get a vasectomy at age 20 knowing what i know now. When we got divorced she was all into co parenting and being civil and those kids growing up with me in their lives. That all went out the window when other men starting parading thru her life. She's a disgusting human being and i hope she gets breast cancer and dies before she can enjoy to much of her early retirement here next year at age 55, all financed by me. Kids were not worth it.

Thanks for this candid response bro. Btw your ex wife married a 3rd and 4th time? Wtf

 

[KindredSpiritzz]

and she kept monkey branching down. Her last one is a real peach, homely as hell. She got fat, very fat so its the best she could do and shes the type that has to have someone, anyone and he was probably her last chance. On the bright side he's equally desperate so thehy ought to stay married. SWas probably worth the 200k in child support to not have to wake up and look at her everyday now. She turned into her mom just like i knew she would given enough time

 

[DonJuanjr]

This is the kicker. They are holding men biologically hostage. Everyman wants to reproduce but it comes at a terrible cost.

This is making me think I should just donate sperm.

 

[KindredSpiritzz]

Now he is married in a virtually sexless marriage. He said I should not do it.

damn right he should divorce as quickly as possible before she builds up equity in the courts eyes and takes have his crap 5 yrs from now when she divorces him. Once you realize your mistake you have to correct that mistake as fast as possible. Depending on how short a time they been married she could be leaving with exactly what she brought into the marriage and nothing more.

 

[RyanSez]

Damn, I feel so ****ing lucky how quickly and "easy" my divorce went after reading so many horror stories from men. Still, I was the beta male raised on Disney fairytales and gynocentric programming, so when it went south, it was the most painful thing that had ever happened to me.

 

[Bokanovsky]

yeah, kids werent worth the stress in my life and the financial hardship. When we first separated everything was amicable but as the years progress and she dated and found out she couldnt get near the level of man i was resentment and bitterness kicked in towards me. Then as she got married the 3rd and 4th time she started turning the kids against me, saying i was a bad father, putting crap in their heads and she delighted in turning the financial knife into me when and where she could making my life as difficult as she could while pretending to those around here she was this fine christian woman raising 3 kids on her own, blah blah. As the kids got 13ish they started working and didnt want to come spend time with daddy. Between that and her bad mouthing me to the kids we have grown apart and im paying on kids i seldom see. The youngest wont even talk to me anymore cause of all the crap my ex put in her head in her apparent desire to have her new husband "play dad" to our kids. Only time i hear from my kids is when they need something otherwise they cant even return a text or phone call. Had to find out my youngest was in the emergency room when the bill came in the mail. I get no say so concerning anything medical for them. At this point i feel like a sperm donor that financed someone elses kids for them and ruined my life in the process.

Unfortunately, I've heard stories similar to yours more than once. As a non-custodial parent (which, as a man, you will almost certainly be in the event of a divorce), you are literally a slave to your ex-wife. This bondage is vigorously enforced by the justice system. Your ex doesn't let you see the kids? You still have to pay child support. Your ex poisons their mind and turns them against you? You still have to pay child support. Your kids tell you to go fvck yourself? You still have to pay child support. Your ex marries some other schmuck? You still have to pay child support. You find out the kids are not even yours? Yup, still have to pay child support. And get this: you want to retire early or take a job that is less stressful but pays less? The court will impute a higher income than you are actually making for child support purposes. Tell me this is not a type of slavery?

 

[Pandora]

Unfortunately, I've heard stories similar to yours more than once. As a non-custodial parent (which, as a man, you will almost certainly be in the event of a divorce), you are literally a slave to your ex-wife. This bondage is vigorously enforced by the justice system. Your ex doesn't let you see the kids? You still have to pay child support. Your ex poisons their mind and turns them against you? You still have to pay child support. Your kids tell you to go fvck yourself? You still have to pay child support. Your ex marries some other schmuck? You still have to pay child support. You find out the kids are not even yours? Yup, still have to pay child support. And get this: you want to retire early or take a job that is less stressful but pays less? The court will impute a higher income than you are actually making for child support purposes. Tell me this is not a type of slavery?

This is insane. I see my uncle going through this exact thing. He is a non custodial parent making 200k. Buys his kids everything and they still hate him. He is a great dad but the bitter mom poisons the kids against him.
Btw do you have kids?

 

[Pandora]

damn right he should divorce as quickly as possible before she builds up equity in the courts eyes and takes have his crap 5 yrs from now when she divorces him. Once you realize your mistake you have to correct that mistake as fast as possible. Depending on how short a time they been married she could be leaving with exactly what she brought into the marriage and nothing more.

Haha he is not gonna divorce her first. He will stay in this sex less marriage for the kids. He makes good money ( like 120k) so she might not divorce him for a while.

 

[Pandora]

Damn, I feel so ****ing lucky how quickly and "easy" my divorce went after reading so many horror stories from men. Still, I was the beta male raised on Disney fairytales and gynocentric programming, so when it went south, it was the most painful thing that had ever happened to me.

So you just basically had to pay the divorce paperwork fee? My co worker said he just pretty much had to pay the $300 fee.

 

[Pandora]

Lol, that's what happens when women withhold sex. Always test drive before committing. He should divorce her.

Well if you are religious you want a virgin bride. They are very religious. I asked him " was she even a virgin?" while in the car. He looks at me and says " bro I dont even know man". We both died laughing. I didnt delve deeper into the topic becuz i didnt want to Respill him too much. She seems like a very nice innocent girl though. She is very pleasant.

 

[Pandora]

How would not getting married solve it or prevent it? He would just be alone and not getting sex, or in a relationship of sorts and not getting sex. If he can't manage to get laid in a marriage, then he isn't going to accomplish anywhere else where it is harder to come by. The main reason men get married is NOT sex,...but the needy desparate thirsty betas DO think that. So they marry the first chick that will pay attention to them, and she probably marries them because she just wants to pop out a few babies and isn't too particular who the guy is since she can divorce him later whenever she wants and collect Child support. He is in a sexless or low-sex marriage because he doesn't give her the tingles. It she got the tingles from him then she would be coming to him for it. So he got himself in the mess by his own actions or lack there-of,...it is not "marriage's" fault.



Yes, he deserves it. He has multiple "baby-mamas",...that ain't no accident. You bang crazy,...you get crazy,...you go crazy,...you pay crazy.

Lol I think he was getting more sex when he was single. He said he regrets not marrying his nympho ex gf. And yes my other friend bangged crazy 2 times. Facebook.

 

[deadmasterx]

He told me that if there is any emotional fluctuation in his wives mood she withdraws sex.

I remember I had a girlfriend that had a phase like that too. The solution was not caring about sex at all, just treating her the same and not even touching her more sexually. The result is that she started coming to me at least once a day wanting something more intimate. I remember that before I would always have to be starting it, and after some good 2 weeks like that, from that time on, she would always come to me and say "Hey, I want you".

He is happy with his 2 children but is unhappy with his sex life. He tells me that he should have taken my advice and not gotten married. He also told me that the main reason that men get married is steady sex but women do not have to hold up that end of the bargain.

Can't blame your friend, because it's easy to lose the frame when you're in a relationship. The idea is that you will have a steady source of sex, but if the woman doesn't want to give you sex, for whatever reason, she becomes the powerful one. My idea is that if you take sex out of the game too it will mess with her self esteem. She wants to feel desired by you, because that's what keep the collar wrapped on your neck. Once she starts feeling that you're not that into her and sex with her isn't a big deal for you anymore, you just get your power back.

What I did, exactly, was working out more and "delimit" my time with her. What do I mean with that? I didn't limit my time (like cutting hours of talk suddenly), I just shaped my schedule to give her a specific time of my day. The rest of the day I would be working out and doing my things. Can't say my shape was getting better, but I definitely felt better about taking care of myself. I was angry, can't lie about that, but lifting is always men's best therapy.

In her mind, a billion things could be going on. "Why isn't he replying to my messages quickly anymore? Why didn't he grab my ass today? Why didn't he compliment me in that horny way he used to?". Some guys would say that the best way to lead a woman in a relationship (because they do want it) is by creating this ausence and mystery that will make her wonder if you're into her. I'd say that, most important than that, is to realize what she uses to dominate you and take the value out of that. If sex doesn't sound like a big deal for you anymore, she won't feel like refusing to frustrate you (if it is about you, of course).

Now it also reminds me of a friend of mine. He would remember the days his girlfriend refused sex (for a ****ty reason) and would make her pay for it after. If she comes horny to you, just say "Honey, I'm not feeling so good today, I have a headache". That's kinda funny and childish to do, but the idea is that women can't stand being (or the idea of being) rejected.

 

[Pandora]

I remember I had a girlfriend that had a phase like that too. The solution was not caring about sex at all, just treating her the same and not even touching her more sexually. The result is that she started coming to me at least once a day wanting something more intimate. I remember that before I would always have to be starting it, and after some good 2 weeks like that, from that time on, she would always come to me and say "Hey, I want you".



Can't blame your friend, because it's easy to lose the frame when you're in a relationship. The idea is that you will have a steady source of sex, but if the woman doesn't want to give you sex, for whatever reason, she becomes the powerful one. My idea is that if you take sex out of the game too it will mess with her self esteem. She wants to feel desired by you, because that's what keep the collar wrapped on your neck. Once she starts feeling that you're not that into her and sex with her isn't a big deal for you anymore, you just get your power back.

What I did, exactly, was working out more and "delimit" my time with her. What do I mean with that? I didn't limit my time (like cutting hours of talk suddenly), I just shaped my schedule to give her a specific time of my day. The rest of the day I would be working out and doing my things. Can't say my shape was getting better, but I definitely felt better about taking care of myself. I was angry, can't lie about that, but lifting is always men's best therapy.

In her mind, a billion things could be going on. "Why isn't he replying to my messages quickly anymore? Why didn't he grab my ass today? Why didn't he compliment me in that horny way he used to?". Some guys would say that the best way to lead a woman in a relationship (because they do want it) is by creating this ausence and mystery that will make her wonder if you're into her. I'd say that, most important than that, is to realize what she uses to dominate you and take the value out of that. If sex doesn't sound like a big deal for you anymore, she won't feel like refusing to frustrate you (if it is about you, of course).

Now it also reminds me of a friend of mine. He would remember the days his girlfriend refused sex (for a ****ty reason) and would make her pay for it after. If she comes horny to you, just say "Honey, I'm not feeling so good today, I have a headache". That's kinda funny and childish to do, but the idea is that women can't stand being (or the idea of being) rejected.

I like this man. Really good advice. Is it inevitable that one day she will try to pull the sex power game?
I feel like after 10 yrs or so she would get tired of fuccing you? I guess dread game is the only way to keep it fresh. You might be right.

 

[deadmasterx]

I like this man. Really good advice. Is it inevitable that one day she will try to pull the sex power game?
I feel like after 10 yrs or so she would get tired of fuccing you? I guess dread game is the only way to keep it fresh. You might be right.

Honestly, there could be a billion of reasons. She may try it, but it's up to you to avoid. The main thing is that she will be cutting off sex to punish you for something. You didn't pay attention on her, you have been too comfortable with her, you have not been dating her, so on. It's a way for the woman to say "you don't do what I like, I won't do what you want".

My experience with that in special, I talked with the girl and we came to the conclusion that she felt I was more into sex than into her, and it hurted her feelings. So, what really happened is that she felt like she could take control of the sex, and she didn't do exactly because she didn't want to, but because she felt it was something I was taking away from her. For her, my mindset was "I'm gonna talk a bit with so later we can be having sex", if I can make it short.

The points to pay attention are:
- Never make sex a big deal. If she doesn't want to give you, don't force, nor beg or plead. Just ask her if there's something going on, she will give you the signs and will be willing to talk. Based on that, if you ask good quality questions you will be able to reach the problem and hopefully solve it.

- Never make her feel like she is the "owner" of sex in the relationship. The main mistake that will make her feel like that is if your actions communicate her that you're taking sex away from her. If you go too explicit with your goals, instead of going with the flow, she will notice, and she will reject you, no matter how much she wants you. There's naturally a difference between going for what you want and acting good or in a certain way to get what you want, and I'm talking about the second one here.

- As my mom used to say, intimacy starts at the very moment you wake up. If you don't make your girl feel well around you, safe, understood and loved, she will naturally close herself to you. Legs close first, then emotions, and then the relationship itself. To avoid that to happen is always good, once you notice a change, ask her if there's anything going on, dig deeper, there's always something.

 

[RyanSez]

So you just basically had to pay the divorce paperwork fee? My co worker said he just pretty much had to pay the $300 fee.

Ended up paying $1,657.63 in attorneys fees, plus a few hundred for the U-Haul to move my stuff across the state.