Running into the same kinds of women.

[Datinglife26]

I'm honestly getting tired for only coming across 2 types of women.

The avoidant & and the anxious clinger.

The past few years it seems these are the two types that I just can't get away from. And worse yet is it takes a little time until you see these ones for what they are. Bat ****.

The avoidant ones;
We have that instant chemistry and it looks like I am about to sail on calm waters and finally get passed the superficial couple of dates and get to know someone who is cool as **** and there is mutual attraction and interest. They are initially pursuing, and making an effort, then one day without warning they shut off and suddenly go ice cold. I've noticed that the more in my masculine I am the quicker this happens too. Like they see it as a way of trying to gain the upper hand so they don't have to be submissive. Being submissive means being vulnerable, being vulnerable means you have the power to hurt them. They are terrified of that so cut you off, shut up shop and blame you for something they took as game playing/playerish (ie being legit busy, inviting them to your town). But they also get confused when you walk way because they secretly desire closeness (google attachment theory, fearful avoidant). My ex was like this and rail roaded us into the ground because she was afraid of being hurt if we got any closer. As soon as she introduced me to her parents and they liked me I was out. No talking, just done. They also have similar traits to borderline NPD. So dodged a bullet here.

The anxious clinger
Starts out extremely similar to the avoidant but is much easier to set up dates with. They aren't as much fun but they aren't worth nexting either. They go out of their way to be available for you, they want to make you food and take care of you. That's cool and nice, but a part of you feels like they do this without you having done anything to earn that kinda treatment. They are super impressed by you and show you off to their friends and want you to meet their family. But if you have any concerns that they are moving too fast for you ("what are we?" on date 5) they suddenly get all panicked and start to pursue you even more. I had one send me a good morning text everyday. And would want to text me all day everyday. If I said I was busy, 2 hours would go by and then I'd get a "how is your day going" text. We hadn't even had the exclusive talk when I heard her mom on the phone to her say "are you with your boyfriend Datinglife26?" to which she replied "yeah we are at the beach"....That was at week 7 and all we had done was hook up and go for walks. Also dodge a bullet with these girls.


Both of the above suffer from ruminations of impending doom and dread that they will lose you and be hurt. They both go about it in different ways based on their childhoods and relationships with their parents. But in the end they both crash and burn the relationships.

But man, I just don't see who these well adjusted girls are. I am 27 and trying to pay attention to early signs. But it seems high quality well adjusted women are super ****ing rare.

Any you older guys have this issue and what did you do to change your screening process?

 

[ThisIsSparta]

@Datinglife26

I am confused..... maybe the women are too.

The one girls are to clingy for you and for the other girls you are to clingy?

"We have that instant chemistry and it looks like I am about to sail on calm waters and finally get passed the superficial couple of dates and get to know someone who is cool as **** and there is mutual attraction and interest. They are initially pursuing, and making an effort, then one day without warning they shut off and suddenly go ice cold. "

So you want calm waters and finally get past superficial........ yet you become nervous when a girl says to her mother on the phone your her bf after 7 weeks? (which most likely resulted in one day without warning you shut that 7week girl off and suddenly went ice cold?)

" My ex was like this and rail roaded us into the ground because she was afraid of being hurt if we got any closer. "
How long have you been in a relationship if she cut you off after her parents got to know you? How long did you know her before your relationship?

" I had one send me a good morning text everyday. And would want to text me all day everyday. If I said I was busy, 2 hours would go by and then I'd get a "how is your day going" text. "

Either tell her in a polite manner that you are not the type to text all day and/or quit replying to her messages until you see fit to reply. This should solve the problem. If she goes mad, ghost her until she behaves or next. Where is the problem?

" We hadn't even had the exclusive talk when I heard her mom on the phone to her say "are you with your boyfriend Datinglife26?" to which she replied "yeah we are at the beach"....That was at week 7 and all we had done was hook up and go for walks. "

Whats your problem with her talking to her mom like that? Does it affect your relationship to this girl? Did she put out any demands on you? Maybe she just doesnt want to be seen as a slvt to her mom? Why do you care what her mom thinks?



What i think is, YOU are the insecure one. You have certain expectations on the women but fail to steer them in the right direction or make your intentions clear (LTR/fvck-buddies/FWB/WTF....). When they proceed their own agenda due to lack of your leadership, you throw away your nerves and eject or get ejected.

 

[oldmanofthesea]

I find it interesting that you think there are more than just these two types of women lol.

You basically described every relationship I have had in the last five years. And I will say for the avoidant ones, I agree with you on them ejecting the more masculine you are, but five years ago the first girl I dated seriously after my divorce was at a time when I was still blue-pilled and had nice-guy behavior and put women on a pedestal. With really avoidant women, even some blue-pilled nice-guys are too masculine for them and they will eject just as you describe. How do I know? Because I see what kind of guys these girls end up marrying or moving in together with and they are the most beta of betas. The girl I mentioned above dated an overweight nerdy hair stylist after me. And after that she moved in with a guy who is a solid 3, has bad teeth, refers to his wallet as his "purse", and is just an all around goofy dork with almost no money (he goes to her and asks her for her credit card because "it's the one that has money on it" any time he needs to purchase anything). She claimed to have had a really dominate, verbally/emotionally abusive ex husband (who she divorced 6 months before she and I met). If that is accurate, perhaps it resulted in her seeking comfort in relationships where she feels she wears the pants and has zero risk of losing him and knows she will be pedestalized forever. And it's funny you mention getting dropped after meeting her parents as that is exactly what happened with me too. I went to her family's place for a holiday and seemed to get along well with them - she didn't say anything one way or the other as to whether they liked me or not but I'm a pretty likeable guy in general and we all seemed to have fun playing games after dinner and talking and laughing etc. All seemed great at that point and then just a few days later she was supposed to come over to spend the night at my place and she sent me a text saying she wasn't coming over, couldn't see me again, and does NOT want to talk about it. lol.

And I just broke up with an anxious clinger two months ago after being with her for 18 months. These are the most outwardly crazy ones in that they have absolutely zero control of their emotions and are the ones you see in TikTok videos burning down people's cars. After I broke up with this last girl, she actually took the time and effort to seek out and organize an outing with TWO of my exes for the purpose of triangulating with them about me and talking sh*t. How messed up is that?!?! She has created an alternate version of reality where I'm both a liar and a cheater (I can assure you I am none of these things and never laid a finger on another woman while dating her), and she is the victim, and she is sharing this fantasy with anyone who will listen and comfort her as she gets over my dumping her (which I did because as time went on, the good times in between the fights she would pick shrunk until there were none left and it was just her being upset 100% of the time and trying to put demands on me to abandon all my friendships or show her text messages from women from two years ago or whatever).

As for changing the screening process, it is something I am working on a lot lately after having had this last awful experience. It really comes down to not ignoring red flags. It's hard for me to say that because of two things: 1 - We here all know you shouldn't ignore red flags, but 2 - If you don't ignore some red flags, will there actually be any women left?

Red flags for the first girl is that she told me she loved me about 4 weeks in. I allowed myself to be flattered by that, and I was still blue-pilled. Red flag two was that she drank a LOT. I never saw her wasted or do anything out of control, but the only thing I ever saw in her fridge was beer - never food, and she just plain and simply drank all the time. Aside from these two things, I can't say there were many red flags I could have picked up on with her, and her drinking didn't cause her to be overweight - definitely one of the most slender girls I've ever dated and I ONLY date slender women.

With this most recent clinger, the first red flag was when, maybe 2 or 3 weeks into dating, she asked if I was doing X one night when we weren't together and I told her "no" instead of telling her exactly what I was doing. She kept up communication, but much slower and was ice cold. She wanted to track me 100% of the time and know where I was and what I was doing and if I wasn't with her or wasn't sitting at home alone, she was pissed. Though she would deny that if called-out on it and make up some other excuse or create some fake drama that was my fault in order to rationalize her anger. The next red flag was when, at month 3 or 4, when we became exclusive, she found out that I was casually dating another girl while we were FIRST talking during the first month, and well before we were exclusive. She had an absolute melt down. Crying all night long and saying her whole body felt numb and that she couldn't go on. She ultimately recovered from that but Jesus. She also was a big drinker. Lots of red flags I chose to ignore because she was a solid 8-8.5 and was really into me. My fault.

Bottom line is learning to dismiss sooner even if it means you might go through a bit of a dry spell.

 

[Jake_Gyllenhaal69]

I’ve been feeling the same way op and I feel all hope is lost lol

 

[Tilex]

The anxious clinger is the relationship type.
This is how most relationships start.
I get the impression she has a low notch count and hasn't reached a high level of jadedness yet.
Maybe being in a relationship is very scary for you. And that's perfectly fine.
Not everyone is built for that.
But if you want a loyal chick that doesn't want to create drama, then she's the one for you.

Chicks that are jaded typically have a high notch count like the avoidant ones.
You'll come across a lot of chicks like this, and that's part of the game.
The avoidant ones used to be the anxious clingers until they got involved with too many wishy-washy guys that couldn't lead a relationship.

If you've consistently came across these types of women, then consider yourself lucky.
The Golddiggers and the Power Hungry Narcissists are the worst ones of all.

 

[PRW63]

I think you are over persuing them. The avoidant one will respond to that just like you describe, no mystery there. The clinger will "lap it up" like a thirsty animal at first but then burn out. Both end the same. If the "Where are we...?" is coming from you on date 5,...then 1., That is too soon, it should be around week 8 (week 8, not date 8),...and 2., more importantly, it needs to come from her, never you. You were not clear who was asking who.

 

[PRW63]

The avoidant ones used to be the anxious clingers until they got involved with too many wishy-washy guys that couldn't lead a relationship.

You nailed it with that line. You might also might want to include the promiscuous foot-loose and fancy free ones in there too. They end up the same way for about the same reasons. Sometimes the promiscuous ones and the clingers are the same woman too.

 

[Alvafe]

the real question I want to make is, there is any other type?

serious or woman are willing or not, there is not much else going on for then

 

[xplt]

The anxious clinger is the relationship type.
This is how most relationships start.
I get the impression she has a low notch count and hasn't reached a high level of jadedness yet.
Maybe being in a relationship is very scary for you. And that's perfectly fine.

And if being in a relationship is scary for someone, sometimes they tend to pull back a little bit (like avoidants) and in combination with someone anxious it‘s like match and gasoline. Drama will occur at some point.

When you are able to give an anxious person security, because you‘re confident in the relationship, the anxiousness and clingyness often disappears.

When trustissues arise on the other hand, they often can‘t be solved.

 

[oldmanofthesea]

I disagree with being able to give an anxious person security, but perhaps I've just been unlucky with the women I have met. The anxiety isn't generated by you, it's generated deep inside of themselves based on how they were raised. While they always LOOK externally for the solution, most will never grasp the fact that the solution can only come from within. Literally nothing you do or say can provide these kinds of women the security they seek in a relationship as their thirst is unquenchable and never-ending. I can give examples of past girls I've dated where were anxious, and explain what I tried to do and what the outcome was. It never worked.

 

[SargeMaximus]

Yeah op pretty much summed up my experiences too. My ex definitely wanted to end things for fear of losing me. One of my fwbs did as well. Now one of my fwbs is probably the other type. But what can we do?

 

[xplt]

The anxiety isn't generated by you, it's generated deep inside of themselves based on how they were raised. While they always LOOK externally for the solution, most will never grasp the fact that the solution can only come from within. Literally nothing you do or say can provide these kinds of women the security they seek in a relationship as their thirst is unquenchable and never-ending.

I've experienced the same with some women and I can see much parallels to your first post in this thread. But I dated two women who changed over the time of the relationship.
Early signs of insecurity and clingyness, which bothered me in the early stages just vanished. On the other hand... when these relationships ended everything came back to the surface with vehemence.

My choice of words wasn't really good. I should have written that the anxiousness and clingyness can disappear.

 

[SammyNfor]

Chicks that are jaded typically have a high notch count like the avoidant ones.
You'll come across a lot of chicks like this, and that's part of the game.
The avoidant ones used to be the anxious clingers until they got involved with too many wishy-washy guys that couldn't lead a relationship.

If you've consistently came across these types of women, then consider yourself lucky.
The Golddiggers and the Power Hungry Narcissists are the worst ones of all.

Don't know if this is entirely true? Or there has to be some sort of a spectrum. I'm dating a chick who I'm sure has a notch count of about 20 and she is the most clingy person I've ever met.

 

[xplt]

Don't know if this is entirely true? Or there has to be some sort of a spectrum. I'm dating a chick who I'm sure has a notch count of about 20 and she is the most clingy person I've ever met.

There's always a behavioral spectrum. But I'm often amazed, how similar the experiences are.

 

[Kotaix]

Are these women coming from OLD or are you meeting them via cold approach?

I think OLD essentially filters out an entire section of the female population that isn't as interested in riding the c0ck carousel.

 

[derby1]

Its modern women as a group.
Feminism , Fatherless households, the paradox of choice, along with promiscuity, has completely eroded their minds.

anytime Ive dated a woman 29-40 in the last two years, she has bailed on me as soon as shes found out I have masculine frame or she isnt the focus of my week.

Their self esteem needs a beta from betasville, who will submit to them.

 

[Datinglife26]

@Datinglife26

I am confused..... maybe the women are too.

The one girls are to clingy for you and for the other girls you are to clingy?

"We have that instant chemistry and it looks like I am about to sail on calm waters and finally get passed the superficial couple of dates and get to know someone who is cool as **** and there is mutual attraction and interest. They are initially pursuing, and making an effort, then one day without warning they shut off and suddenly go ice cold. "

So you want calm waters and finally get past superficial........ yet you become nervous when a girl says to her mother on the phone your her bf after 7 weeks? (which most likely resulted in one day without warning you shut that 7week girl off and suddenly went ice cold?)

" My ex was like this and rail roaded us into the ground because she was afraid of being hurt if we got any closer. "
How long have you been in a relationship if she cut you off after her parents got to know you? How long did you know her before your relationship?

" I had one send me a good morning text everyday. And would want to text me all day everyday. If I said I was busy, 2 hours would go by and then I'd get a "how is your day going" text. "

Either tell her in a polite manner that you are not the type to text all day and/or quit replying to her messages until you see fit to reply. This should solve the problem. If she goes mad, ghost her until she behaves or next. Where is the problem?

" We hadn't even had the exclusive talk when I heard her mom on the phone to her say "are you with your boyfriend Datinglife26?" to which she replied "yeah we are at the beach"....That was at week 7 and all we had done was hook up and go for walks. "

Whats your problem with her talking to her mom like that? Does it affect your relationship to this girl? Did she put out any demands on you? Maybe she just doesnt want to be seen as a slvt to her mom? Why do you care what her mom thinks?



What i think is, YOU are the insecure one. You have certain expectations on the women but fail to steer them in the right direction or make your intentions clear (LTR/fvck-buddies/FWB/WTF....). When they proceed their own agenda due to lack of your leadership, you throw away your nerves and eject or get ejected.

I like that you jumped to all those conclusions So I'll answer to set you straight.

Anxious girl.

1. Told her I'm not a big texted and explained my busy schedule. But I like hearing from her. She doesn't need to get nervous if she doesn't hear back from me during working hours

2. I told her one night at 6pm when going out with the boys that I'd talk to her tomorrow and hope she enjoys her night with the girls. She responded by saying I must be mad at her and that I should be able to text her when I'm out with the guys because I have my phone. This is after ignoring my "I'm not a texter" comments.

3. I made it very clear multiple times we weren't in a relationship and at the time I wasn't ready for one but enjoyed going on dates with her. She then flip on me when she "happened" to see my tinder profile when hers gave her a notification. She was swiping and came across me.

4. I had told her multiple times about the above. She still proceeded to say her parents wanted to meet her boyfriend. She wasn't listening to me and living in a fantasy. It was then wrong for me to continue banging her. So I ended things because she was a sweet girl but super clingy and never gave me space. Also she had other red flags like getting into a 3some while dating another guy because she got jealous so she made out with his friend and then they banged her..(this explains me not wanting a relationship with her)

5. After ending things with her she continued to send me pics of herself in underwear even though she "wasn't that type of girl"


Avoidant ex

We dated for 8 months..came from the same town so knew of each other. She love bombed me from the start and was cool as ****. She gave me space but was always fun to hang out with. It was a good balance.
The closer we got over that time the more she would pull back after dates.

We had some great time together. But she would pulled back after we got closer. She admitted it "scares the ****" out of her how much she likes me early on and that "In afraid I have one foot in the door". She drunk one night asked me not to hurt her. That was confusing as **** at the time. Make sense now after learning attachment theory.

Anyway she pushed for me to meet her family. I made sure it was what she wanted and she was happy when I accepted the invited at around 7.5months. (We lived in a city away from them-But separate houses) they loved me and afterward they kept asking her to bring me back around..this sent her into panic mode and she shut down. Told me the 6 year age gap meant I wanted a family and that she doesn't (I never mentioned that. Think she was projecting what she saw as the only future if we continued) so she went off the rails. Being unsure of the avoidant I did the usual silence and distance while communicating before hand that I wanted to continue seeing her and that breaking up isn't what I want but if she feels it's best then to call me if she changed her mind.

Our break up consisted of her telling me she loved me and then kissing me like it was the first time we met.

Brain was fried.

Anyway. I've gotten over all that.

Yes we all have some form of insecurities but that isn't the reason for me seeming to only run into girls with either anxious or avoidant tendencies.. unless these are the main two types of people and that's it?

 

[Georgepithyou]

The clinger will "lap it up" like a thirsty animal at first but then burn out

The light that burns twice as bright burns half as long

 

[Billtx49]

The light that burns twice as bright burns half as long

Prime words of wisdom there, something for every man to always keep in mind …

 

[Tilex]

@Datinglife26 how old are those two women?
Provide an age for each one