separation after 9 years of marriage

[fenix2021]

Around 2007-9 i was an active member of this community. Back then this community helped me find myself and become a better man. This betterment led to dating many women. One of them was a girl who i ended up marrying for 9 years. Fast forward to today. 2 beautiful children (3 and 6 yo) and my wife and I are going through trial separation.

Both me and her are in early 40s.
Attractive and well fit.
Gorgeous children.
Passionate about each other in the bedroom (sex is great and frequent).
Both are great parents to kids.
But our communication is fundamentally broken.
In my research to understand what the hell is going on with us, i ran into Myers–Briggs Personality Type Indicator (inspired by Jung's writings) and it blew my mind. It's as if i was reading instruction manual into each other's soul.
I'm ISTP (tinkerer/thinker) and she's ENFP (campaigner). This led me to understand why for the past who-knows how many years we stopped communicating. She thinks and communicates in feelings and i communicate in facts and logic. Trying to explain a concept or why something is or isn't a good idea using my patters of thinking is like talking to a creature from a different planet. Of course the same is true of me when she tries to talk to "explain" something.

Originally we agreed for her to find an apartment in the neighborhood for the sake of kids but now she's moving to the town where she grew up in surrounded by friends and community. Community and friends is a very important trait of her personality type so i understand this need but the distance (1h away) between us scares me. I feel that despite best intentions we WILL drift apart. I'll start sleeping around and so will she (we both are attractive and have charismatic personalities) and our previously powerful love (that still gets manifested by our very spiritual sex life) will slowly dissolve.

Financially we are OK and we figured out a decent way to split time with kids.
All this stuff is so new to me, the normal me who can figure out anything and everything is at a loss. I simply have no clue what will happen next.
I would love to hear from guys who has similar experience.

 

[TheNewStyle123]

Around 2007-9 i was an active member of this community. Back then this community helped me find myself and become a better man. This betterment led to dating many women. One of them was a girl who i ended up marrying for 9 years. Fast forward to today. 2 beautiful children (3 and 6 yo) and my wife and I are going through trial separation.

Both me and her are in early 40s.
Attractive and well fit.
Gorgeous children.
Passionate about each other in the bedroom (sex is great and frequent).
Both are great parents to kids.
But our communication is fundamentally broken.
In my research to understand what the hell is going on with us, i ran into Myers–Briggs Personality Type Indicator (inspired by Jung's writings) and it blew my mind. It's as if i was reading instruction manual into each other's soul.
I'm ISTP (tinkerer/thinker) and she's ENFP (campaigner). This led me to understand why for the past who-knows how many years we stopped communicating. She thinks and communicates in feelings and i communicate in facts and logic. Trying to explain a concept or why something is or isn't a good idea using my patters of thinking is like talking to a creature from a different planet. Of course the same is true of me when she tries to talk to "explain" something.

Originally we agreed for her to find an apartment in the neighborhood for the sake of kids but now she's moving to the town where she grew up in surrounded by friends and community. Community and friends is a very important trait of her personality type so i understand this need but the distance (1h away) between us scares me. I feel that despite best intentions we WILL drift apart. I'll start sleeping around and so will she (we both are attractive and have charismatic personalities) and our previously powerful love (that still gets manifested by our very spiritual sex life) will slowly dissolve.

Financially we are OK and we figured out a decent way to split time with kids.
All this stuff is so new to me, the normal me who can figure out anything and everything is at a loss. I simply have no clue what will happen next.
I would love to hear from guys who has similar experience.

Wow man I’m really sorry to hear that. I just separated from my ex wife 8 months ago (divorce finalized last month), but mine was a lot less complicated than yours. I have no kids and was only married 3 years.
I’m sure a lot of the current guys on here will give you good advice from their similar experiences. They really helped me.
Best of luck man and welcome back to the forum. I joined Dec 2020.

 

[fenix2021]

Whose idea was it?

I am guessing hers...............

The separation was kind her idea but i totally agree it would be healthy. The move to her childhood town is her idea that i reluctantly accepted.

 

[fenix2021]

Have you two spoken with your Pastor about things?

This is def on our agenda (priest not pastor).

 

[Lookatu]

What attracted to each other in the first place? Did those things get lost in the 9 years? What are things that made both of you stay together for 9 years?

I understand people can grow apart and have, but in this case, I don't really see any wrong doing on either side.

Is there something you're leaving out?

 

[Augustus_McCrae]

Around 2007-9 i was an active member of this community. Back then this community helped me find myself and become a better man. This betterment led to dating many women. One of them was a girl who i ended up marrying for 9 years. Fast forward to today. 2 beautiful children (3 and 6 yo) and my wife and I are going through trial separation.

Both me and her are in early 40s.
Attractive and well fit.
Gorgeous children.
Passionate about each other in the bedroom (sex is great and frequent).
Both are great parents to kids.
But our communication is fundamentally broken.
In my research to understand what the hell is going on with us, i ran into Myers–Briggs Personality Type Indicator (inspired by Jung's writings) and it blew my mind. It's as if i was reading instruction manual into each other's soul.
I'm ISTP (tinkerer/thinker) and she's ENFP (campaigner). This led me to understand why for the past who-knows how many years we stopped communicating. She thinks and communicates in feelings and i communicate in facts and logic. Trying to explain a concept or why something is or isn't a good idea using my patters of thinking is like talking to a creature from a different planet. Of course the same is true of me when she tries to talk to "explain" something.

Originally we agreed for her to find an apartment in the neighborhood for the sake of kids but now she's moving to the town where she grew up in surrounded by friends and community. Community and friends is a very important trait of her personality type so i understand this need but the distance (1h away) between us scares me. I feel that despite best intentions we WILL drift apart. I'll start sleeping around and so will she (we both are attractive and have charismatic personalities) and our previously powerful love (that still gets manifested by our very spiritual sex life) will slowly dissolve.

Financially we are OK and we figured out a decent way to split time with kids.
All this stuff is so new to me, the normal me who can figure out anything and everything is at a loss. I simply have no clue what will happen next.
I would love to hear from guys who has similar experience.

The fact that she wants to move an hour away from you and the children is not great. Are you sure she isn’t already involved with someone else?

-Augustus-

 

[Bigpapa]

Around 2007-9 i was an active member of this community. Back then this community helped me find myself and become a better man. This betterment led to dating many women. One of them was a girl who i ended up marrying for 9 years. Fast forward to today. 2 beautiful children (3 and 6 yo) and my wife and I are going through trial separation.

Both me and her are in early 40s.
Attractive and well fit.
Gorgeous children.
Passionate about each other in the bedroom (sex is great and frequent).
Both are great parents to kids.
But our communication is fundamentally broken.
In my research to understand what the hell is going on with us, i ran into Myers–Briggs Personality Type Indicator (inspired by Jung's writings) and it blew my mind. It's as if i was reading instruction manual into each other's soul.
I'm ISTP (tinkerer/thinker) and she's ENFP (campaigner). This led me to understand why for the past who-knows how many years we stopped communicating. She thinks and communicates in feelings and i communicate in facts and logic. Trying to explain a concept or why something is or isn't a good idea using my patters of thinking is like talking to a creature from a different planet. Of course the same is true of me when she tries to talk to "explain" something.

Originally we agreed for her to find an apartment in the neighborhood for the sake of kids but now she's moving to the town where she grew up in surrounded by friends and community. Community and friends is a very important trait of her personality type so i understand this need but the distance (1h away) between us scares me. I feel that despite best intentions we WILL drift apart. I'll start sleeping around and so will she (we both are attractive and have charismatic personalities) and our previously powerful love (that still gets manifested by our very spiritual sex life) will slowly dissolve.

Financially we are OK and we figured out a decent way to split time with kids.
All this stuff is so new to me, the normal me who can figure out anything and everything is at a loss. I simply have no clue what will happen next.
I would love to hear from guys who has similar experience.

na man , always ask yourself if you do not sleep with the woman what else can you do with her

men are logical by nature , while women are emotional also by nature

it is normal for things to fall apart

the only time when things do not fall apart is when both of you focus on the same objective

 

[fenix2021]

Based on Myers-Briggs type indicator guide, she's ENFP - enthusiastic, charismatic,energetic, creative and independent. She has great people skills (though sometimes overwhelming others with her energy) understanding what others are feeling. Though she's great at generating ideas, she isn't great at bringing those dreams into reality mostly because she dislikes the routine it takes to get stuff done. She needs approval from others thus cares greatly about her community of friends.

I'm ISTP - enjoying having time to think alone and are fiercely independent. I love action, new experiences, hands-on activities, and the freedom to work at my own pace. Unlike her who's all about her feelings and intuition, I'm logical and rational (emotions don't interest me), though i get bored with routines, the goal on a roadmap lets me accomplish things. I couldn't care less what others are thinking about me because my confidence comes from within.

This is crucial distinction. We both spoke from the perspective that somehow each was at least with one foot in his/her world - thus shall be able to understand the other at least partially. But that isn't the case. She spikes with emotions and i spike with hard facts and logic. Feelings and intuition is her way of perceive world and rationality is mine. By living in the world of dreams and fantasies, she lets herself imaging. She's very creative but lacks ability to pull the trigger to make her dreams come true. I'm all about action. I would hear one of her many ideas, decided that the idea indeed is great and figure out the steps that it would take to accomplish it. This was done to help her bring the idea into reality but now i see i was wrong. She accuse me of "stealing" her ideas controlling the outcome, so i stopped trying and just encouraged her to pursue it (knowing full well it will never get done).

She's all about community and friends and covid killed that part of her world completely so she felt stuck in our "little" world. Everything started to annoy her. I could say: "today the sky is blue and the sun is shining" and she would respond " why are you so negative and don't want to go outside?" We kept missing the real meaning of each other's sentences and growing resentment. She kept bothering me about buying a house (blind to the fact that during pandemic everyone and their grandmother came to the same decision pushing the prices through the roof - and to be honest i was never a suburbia/country guy loving the city and its culture). Now i know the house stood in for a place of "safety" where she could realign herself and her tumultuous feelings. Right now the temporary substitute for that space is her new apartment (a bit overpriced, though she has savings and good job) in the town where she grew up in. This is where she has her community (or she believes she does - all her friends have families with kids so on one hand our kids will be able to interact but at some point how many play dates you can schedule with the same 4 friend?). In many ways she'll have to grow up (so will I). Though we both work, i would take care of the bills and regular life-maintenance and now she'll have to do it herself in turn probably appreciating my efforts more and naturally learning steps to get stuff done. Though in reality i can also imagine visiting her in a few weeks and seeing her living out of moving boxes. This will be her reality check that i hope will give her some perspective. With her creativity she could be brilliant it she only managed to pull the trigger more often, follow some sort of roadmap and stick to at least some aspects of the plan.

At this moment we both want to work it out to save the relationship (marriage counseling starts next week) but i know our intentions are not the only definer of reality. Life happens and what next 6-12 months bring can fundamentally adjust our relationship and possibility of any reconciliation.

 

[Sir FB]

Based on Myers-Briggs type indicator guide, she's ENFP - enthusiastic, charismatic,energetic, creative and independent. She has great people skills (though sometimes overwhelming others with her energy) understanding what others are feeling. Though she's great at generating ideas, she isn't great at bringing those dreams into reality mostly because she dislikes the routine it takes to get stuff done. She needs approval from others thus cares greatly about her community of friends.

I'm ISTP - enjoying having time to think alone and are fiercely independent. I love action, new experiences, hands-on activities, and the freedom to work at my own pace. Unlike her who's all about her feelings and intuition, I'm logical and rational (emotions don't interest me), though i get bored with routines, the goal on a roadmap lets me accomplish things. I couldn't care less what others are thinking about me because my confidence comes from within.

This is crucial distinction. We both spoke from the perspective that somehow each was at least with one foot in his/her world - thus shall be able to understand the other at least partially. But that isn't the case. She spikes with emotions and i spike with hard facts and logic. Feelings and intuition is her way of perceive world and rationality is mine. By living in the world of dreams and fantasies, she lets herself imaging. She's very creative but lacks ability to pull the trigger to make her dreams come true. I'm all about action. I would hear one of her many ideas, decided that the idea indeed is great and figure out the steps that it would take to accomplish it. This was done to help her bring the idea into reality but now i see i was wrong. She accuse me of "stealing" her ideas controlling the outcome, so i stopped trying and just encouraged her to pursue it (knowing full well it will never get done).

She's all about community and friends and covid killed that part of her world completely so she felt stuck in our "little" world. Everything started to annoy her. I could say: "today the sky is blue and the sun is shining" and she would respond " why are you so negative and don't want to go outside?" We kept missing the real meaning of each other's sentences and growing resentment. She kept bothering me about buying a house (blind to the fact that during pandemic everyone and their grandmother came to the same decision pushing the prices through the roof - and to be honest i was never a suburbia/country guy loving the city and its culture). Now i know the house stood in for a place of "safety" where she could realign herself and her tumultuous feelings. Right now the temporary substitute for that space is her new apartment (a bit overpriced, though she has savings and good job) in the town where she grew up in. This is where she has her community (or she believes she does - all her friends have families with kids so on one hand our kids will be able to interact but at some point how many play dates you can schedule with the same 4 friend?). In many ways she'll have to grow up (so will I). Though we both work, i would take care of the bills and regular life-maintenance and now she'll have to do it herself in turn probably appreciating my efforts more and naturally learning steps to get stuff done. Though in reality i can also imagine visiting her in a few weeks and seeing her living out of moving boxes. This will be her reality check that i hope will give her some perspective. With her creativity she could be brilliant it she only managed to pull the trigger more often, follow some sort of roadmap and stick to at least some aspects of the plan.

At this moment we both want to work it out to save the relationship (marriage counseling starts next week) but i know our intentions are not the only definer of reality. Life happens and what next 6-12 months bring can fundamentally adjust our relationship and possibility of any reconciliation.

I’m ISTJ and the gal I’m dating is ENFP. We have a lot of differences! I’m also in individual therapy. My therapist has intimated that this could be a difficult relationship unless both people are committed to growth and change. At least you two share one characteristic. Here’s a neat site I found which explains how different personality types relate to one another. https://www.truity.com/type-relationship-advisor/I/S/T/P/E/N/F/P

 

[fenix2021]

I think we differ on fundamental philosophical issues.
I need hyperbolic scenarios to bring out my emotions into my logical equation.
If the Titanic was sinking and her friends believed that to save ourselves we need to go Right while my logical deduction said Left, I'm not certain that she would listen to me.
This life-or-death scenario, of course translates in my head into what love means to her and me.
I need to know that in those extreme scenarios, she will stand by me but i'm not certain of this anymore.
Based on her personality type (ENFP), this is not a huge surprise to me anymore. Her type is fiercely independent and yet very empathetic needing community to "survive." I'm not sure if i want to be with someone who, in terms of values, puts an equal sign between her friend and her husband.

 

[TB24]

@fenix2021: You sound very clear in your description. I like how you describe the situation in a fact-based way (which may be due to your personality type...). You may want to read about emotional intelligence as well. It may help you in this relationship (if you both decide to stay married) or in the next one. I recommend e.g. 'What makes love last?' by John Gottmann. Although it's a completely different field, books like these opened my eyes just like some Red Pill books have. As if you can suddenly see through the Matrix...

If you'd like to talk about this or if you are interested in other books that I could recommend, DM me.

 

[fenix2021]

@fenix2021: You sound very clear in your description. I like how you describe the situation in a fact-based way (which may be due to your personality type...). You may want to read about emotional intelligence as well. It may help you in this relationship (if you both decide to stay married) or in the next one. I recommend e.g. 'What makes love last?' by John Gottmann. Although it's a completely different field, books like these opened my eyes just like some Red Pill books have. As if you can suddenly see through the Matrix...

If you'd like to talk about this or if you are interested in other books that I could recommend, DM me.

I ordered the book just now.
I'm infusing myself with a mountain of content to understand the issue (of course, this is my style based on personality type). I'm just not sure that she's doing the same. Discovering the personality types and how closely we fit into our own archetype was a huge AH! moment for me because it showed that i can't hold resentment towards her for being who she is and the action she takes based on her mind's DNA, but i feel she hasn't had the same enlightenment yet. I think she believes it's great i'm learning something about myself but holds herself exempt from that responsibility.

 

[Lookatu]

I think we differ on fundamental philosophical issues.
I need hyperbolic scenarios to bring out my emotions into my logical equation.
If the Titanic was sinking and her friends believed that to save ourselves we need to go Right while my logical deduction said Left, I'm not certain that she would listen to me.
This life-or-death scenario, of course translates in my head into what love means to her and me.
I need to know that in those extreme scenarios, she will stand by me but i'm not certain of this anymore.
Based on her personality type (ENFP), this is not a huge surprise to me anymore. Her type is fiercely independent and yet very empathetic needing community to "survive." I'm not sure if i want to be with someone who, in terms of values, puts an equal sign between her friend and her husband.

I'm just wondering what took so long for these things to manifest? I mean didn't any of this come up within the 9years of marriage? What was the driving catalyst?

Was it her initiating certain frustrations or disappointments?

 

[fenix2021]

I'm just wondering what took so long for these things to manifest? I mean didn't any of this come up within the 9years of marriage? What was the driving catalyst?

Was it her initiating certain frustrations or disappointments?

We had a business together - a small film production company where she did post and i filmed. Every other year we would get a big job - in the past 7 years 3 big jobs were responsible for 45% of the income.
2 years ago we came into some extra savings that could be used for a modest down payment on a house - this opened up her dream world. I was always skeptical because our income oscillates wildly (unintended "pleasures" of the freelance world) from great year to "OK we gonna make it but barely." In my before-personality-test naivete i though that the solution is simple: greater financial independence by growing the business together (thus be able to afford the house) but now i understand that she got bored, as is common in her personality type, and moved on with her aspirations - uninterested in the business or bring in the "big jobs" she wants a new life adventure detached from the reality of what it would take to accomplish it. Covid exasperated our divide in life's goals - me growing the business so we are more financially sustainable; her, the house where she could build the dream for kids. The fact that she makes decent money is both a blessing and the curse. She never made more than $80k/year on her own and now with her new apartment is taking on projected $100k/year in expenses. For her it's not a problem because she believes she'll find a a way oblivious to the fact that she'll have to work even more than before to make up the difference. (i suspect she'll dip heavily into her savings).

Again, i don't blame here as this way of thinking is fundamental to her personality type - the unhinged optimist where there is always a way out of trouble. Needless to say this fundamentally goes against my personality type, where i see huge holes in her reasoning or expectations from life.

 

[The Duke]

Based on Myers-Briggs type indicator guide, she's ENFP - enthusiastic, charismatic,energetic, creative and independent. She has great people skills (though sometimes overwhelming others with her energy) understanding what others are feeling. Though she's great at generating ideas, she isn't great at bringing those dreams into reality mostly because she dislikes the routine it takes to get stuff done. She needs approval from others thus cares greatly about her community of friends.

I'm ISTP - enjoying having time to think alone and are fiercely independent. I love action, new experiences, hands-on activities, and the freedom to work at my own pace. Unlike her who's all about her feelings and intuition, I'm logical and rational (emotions don't interest me), though i get bored with routines, the goal on a roadmap lets me accomplish things. I couldn't care less what others are thinking about me because my confidence comes from within.

This is crucial distinction. We both spoke from the perspective that somehow each was at least with one foot in his/her world - thus shall be able to understand the other at least partially. But that isn't the case. She spikes with emotions and i spike with hard facts and logic. Feelings and intuition is her way of perceive world and rationality is mine. By living in the world of dreams and fantasies, she lets herself imaging. She's very creative but lacks ability to pull the trigger to make her dreams come true. I'm all about action. I would hear one of her many ideas, decided that the idea indeed is great and figure out the steps that it would take to accomplish it. This was done to help her bring the idea into reality but now i see i was wrong. She accuse me of "stealing" her ideas controlling the outcome, so i stopped trying and just encouraged her to pursue it (knowing full well it will never get done).

She's all about community and friends and covid killed that part of her world completely so she felt stuck in our "little" world. Everything started to annoy her. I could say: "today the sky is blue and the sun is shining" and she would respond " why are you so negative and don't want to go outside?" We kept missing the real meaning of each other's sentences and growing resentment. She kept bothering me about buying a house (blind to the fact that during pandemic everyone and their grandmother came to the same decision pushing the prices through the roof - and to be honest i was never a suburbia/country guy loving the city and its culture). Now i know the house stood in for a place of "safety" where she could realign herself and her tumultuous feelings. Right now the temporary substitute for that space is her new apartment (a bit overpriced, though she has savings and good job) in the town where she grew up in. This is where she has her community (or she believes she does - all her friends have families with kids so on one hand our kids will be able to interact but at some point how many play dates you can schedule with the same 4 friend?). In many ways she'll have to grow up (so will I). Though we both work, i would take care of the bills and regular life-maintenance and now she'll have to do it herself in turn probably appreciating my efforts more and naturally learning steps to get stuff done. Though in reality i can also imagine visiting her in a few weeks and seeing her living out of moving boxes. This will be her reality check that i hope will give her some perspective. With her creativity she could be brilliant it she only managed to pull the trigger more often, follow some sort of roadmap and stick to at least some aspects of the plan.

At this moment we both want to work it out to save the relationship (marriage counseling starts next week) but i know our intentions are not the only definer of reality. Life happens and what next 6-12 months bring can fundamentally adjust our relationship and possibility of any reconciliation.

Her moving an hour away contradicts what she says about wanting to work things out. Run a background check on her credit and see if she has any other accounts/credit cards you don't know about. Pull her cell phone records.

Also realize her propensity to get bored also happens with men.

I will promise you there is more to this than she is letting on.

 

[bat soup]

The separation was kind her idea but i totally agree it would be healthy. The move to her childhood town is her idea that i reluctantly accepted.

To me it sounds like she's already checked out of the relationship and moved on.

Instead of being straight with you, she's feeding you lies and half truths.

I don't think you should even consider the possibility of ever getting back with her.

 

[9-3enthusiast]

I can only speak for myself, but...
I was married for more than 20 years, and realistically I should have called it a day after half of that - But we stayed together because of the kids (cliche, but it was true for me) - and just settled into what gradually became a friendship rather than a relationship.
Sex faded off until it eventually stopped altogether for the last few years, and we just kinda 'settled'.
I finally saw sense after a health scare and a re-think of life in general - moved out, and moved on - however....

Now I look back on those last 12 yrs or so as wasted time .
Think carefully OP - Is it worth saving? Don't try to save it unless you think it really is worth the effort.
Don't turn into me, with a decade of wasted time behind you.

edited to add:
I'm also ISTP and a logical thinker - my ex-wife - I don't know her M-B, but she was definitely far more emotionally and socially driven.

 

[fenix2021]

UPDATE:
So we had our first couple's therapy session and in many ways it went great.
"It seems that by moving out you are trying to prove to your husband that you can manage it on your own."
"Yeah, kinda"
"So you prove that to him and then what?"
[no answer]

The therapist was great asking the sort of questions that i normally couldn't because my wife's fragile ego would turn to dust.
Her therapy style is to talk about issues related to upbringing and family. My past doesn't have many skeletons in the closet but my wife's does. Her father was adopted at 2 yo and to this day (he's 75 yo) blames his failures and being half-man on that. Her mother basically chose to "sacrifice" herself by "saving" the father from himself and yet kept telling my wife to never marry a man like him.

To be continued.

 

[fenix2021]

I can only speak for myself, but...
I was married for more than 20 years, and realistically I should have called it a day after half of that - But we stayed together because of the kids (cliche, but it was true for me) - and just settled into what gradually became a friendship rather than a relationship.
Sex faded off until it eventually stopped altogether for the last few years, and we just kinda 'settled'.
I finally saw sense after a health scare and a re-think of life in general - moved out, and moved on - however....

Now I look back on those last 12 yrs or so as wasted time .
Think carefully OP - Is it worth saving? Don't try to save it unless you think it really is worth the effort.
Don't turn into me, with a decade of wasted time behind you.

edited to add:
I'm also ISTP and a logical thinker - my ex-wife - I don't know her M-B, but she was definitely far more emotionally and socially driven.

Maybe i'm too sentimental, but i would have no problem sacrificing for the sake of my kids. So, congrats to bot you and your ex-wife for making that decision!

 

[rart]

Women who are into their husbands don't want to prove they can make it on their own. They are happy where they are.