Everyone Should Read This Thread

[SargeMaximus]

My angle is your a bullsh1tter and you wont drop the link, because you got nothing to say that hasn't been said.

Good thing idgaf what you think

 

[corrector]

Like seriously, we're not communicating telepathically, we're not levitating, we're still required to do the same social dance we've always done, the only difference is you have more ways to waste your time than the past men did.

You don't have an answer then to the charge that almost all of the online PUA material is outdated post social media, apps and general trends that discourage PUA cold approaching. What is the point of this thread if you can't answer a basic challenge. If you think everything is still the same pre-2015 then you are just delusional.

 

[RickTheToad]

Everyone calm down.

 

[DonJuanjr]

and general trends that discourage PUA cold approaching.

I don't think everything is outdated. Even though I haven't had any true success, I've had more success with cold approach than with OLD. I've contacted more females through OLD than cold approach, and it's got me nowhere. While the females I cold approached has netted me one date, and seven numbers.

 

[Guy69JackBlue]

I don't think everything is outdated. Even though I haven't had any true success, I've had more success with cold approach than with OLD. I've contacted more females through OLD than cold approach, and it's got me nowhere. While the females I cold approached has netted me one date, and seven numbers.

Seven numbers in how long?

 

[DonJuanjr]

3 Months

 

[RangerMIke]

I've always thought that it depends on what your purpose is, when it comes to whether or not it is likely to get you women.

True... I really don't like the term "Being on your purpose". I really don't know where that comes from. To me it honestly just sounds stupid.

Women like men that are driven to accomplish something useful. They also like men that are keeping busy with things that really do not involve them. I know, crazy right? A chick that wants to go shopping, and you cancel your plans to go to a baseball game with you male buddies so you can follow her around carrying shopping bags... well she might appreciate that you are willing to be her pack mule, but she will lose a little respect for you... if you do this too much, then she will lose attraction for you.

If she wants a built in pool.... and you go ahead and go into debt for $35k to do this, she will love you built her a pool, but again.. she will lose respect for you because now now you are paying over $500/month for something you can only use half the year, and what is going to cost $75/month to maintain. Your job as a man is to say "NO" to things that are going to be a problem later. If you keep caving into her to make her happy, all that sh1t is short term. You as a man are supposed to be looking at long term ramification and keeping her on course. Chicks will dance around chasing emotional butterflies: your job as a man is to let her do this but STOP HER if she is about to dance off a cliff.

I know plenty of relationships where the dude is spending sh1t pots of money on a chick they are in love with.... just to keep her happy.

I have a female friend who is dating a guy that has more money than brains. Well, she asked for my help last week to get something squared away with an overseas business trip she is taking on July 1st. So I helped her, but she is going to OWE ME, but I told her there were some things she needed to do to make this happen before next week. Well.... her boyfriend wants her to go to a high school graduation of his niece in Dallas, and bought her a 1st class plane ticket over the long weekend, so she's doing that. I b1tched her out, told her to pull her head OUT OF HER @SS and prioritize what is important. But she went to Dallas... I'm sure she is having fun, but when she gets back and realizes that she will have missed out on the business opportunity because she didn't stay focused on what is important... she will NOT blame herself... she will blame her boyfriend... THIS is how chicks work... they want to do fun stuff all the time, but real men understand that if everything is FUN, then nothing is fun... and everything has a cost.

Women like men that work hard (and don't b1tch about working), and play when it doesn't get in the way staying on course.

 

[RangerMIke]

I don't attack people, I ask questions and look for answers, just because you don't have an answer for me, does not mean I'm attacking you....

Agreed, this is the Socratic method, keep asking questions until you get to the root cause of what is happening until you get to some root cause reason that you can objectively address. Many look at this as an attack, because if you keep doing this eventually you will get to a reason that attacks your core beliefs. This is why Socrates was forced to drink poison.

Question: Why did I lose this chick?
Answer: She lose interest.
Question: Why did she lose interest?
Answer: Another dude came along
Question: Why did she pick him over me?
Answer: He has more money, is in better shape, and has his sh1t together.
Question: Why does he have more money, has 6-pack abs, and is put together.
Answer: He has a good job, and is in good Shape
Question: Why does he have a good job?
Answer: He studied something useful and prioritized life to be successful.
Question: Why is he in better shape?
Answer: He works out in the gym 4 days a week.

Solution: If I want to do better with chicks going forward, I need to focus on my professional life and spend more time in the gym, and I'll do better with the next chick. I need to sh1t-can bad habits, pot and alcohol are getting in my way... so I need to quit that sh1t. I'm spending too much time on PlayStation and trolling self help forums... I need to quit that sh1t too. Every hour I spend on Sosauve is an hour I can use learning a new language, or in the gym, or earning money.

Everyone wants a magic pill... there are no magic pills... EVERYTHING starts with you the man busting your @ss to build a better life for yourself and your family.

 

[CAPSLOCK BANDIT]

You don't have an answer then to the charge that almost all of the online PUA material is outdated post social media, apps and general trends that discourage PUA cold approaching. What is the point of this thread if you can't answer a basic challenge. If you think everything is still the same pre-2015 then you are just delusional.

Your not offering any challenge, you are using generalized statements like every other person in this thread because you have nothing to contribute to the conversation other than "It doesn't work"

These strategies never worked for everyone, not in the beginning; cold approaching works to build your social skills and you need to have social skills before 90% of the things in the DJ Bible can be applied, you need to be able to carry on a conversation with a woman beyond a pick up line, it's a necessity, social anxiety is a real thing that one needs to get over.

Sure, things have evolved, but we have not, we are still expected to be social, carry on a conversation and just like any other time in history, if you cant do that you are going to fail.

 

[lost_blackbird]

What about specific social anxiety?

 

[corrector]

Your not offering any challenge, you are using generalized statements like every other person in this thread because you have nothing to contribute to the conversation other than "It doesn't work"

These strategies never worked for everyone, not in the beginning; cold approaching works to build your social skills and you need to have social skills before 90% of the things in the DJ Bible can be applied, you need to be able to carry on a conversation with a woman beyond a pick up line, it's a necessity, social anxiety is a real thing that one needs to get over.

I should not have to explain this because its already online and all over the place. However, I'll entertain you since you sound sincere with your beliefs. I'll summarize what I know. I won't provide links because the information is already all over the place and you can check it out yourself. Lets assume you are too lazy to enter simple google searches, let me summarize:

The dating market, societal tolerance for PUA and smartphones and social media has certainly changed.

Lets talk about cold approaching since you mentioned that. You could be at worst arrested, or asked by security not to return to an establishment if you are cold approaching and women start complaining on you. Case in point, Eaton Center mall in Toronto used to have lots of dating coaches and PUA approaching women in these places, until there was a crackdown and everything has turned underground and that's no longer happening.

You want to cold approach who? Every woman is on her smartphone in public. When you go outside, virtually very woman who is not with someone, is typing away in their smartphone and their minds are not there in the present. If she's on an online dating APP then she knows there are tonnes of desperate simps that want her and she knows she could probably get a chad because that's more of a challenge to her. Then along comes you. Why would she want to deal with you if she has all that validation, attention and chads that she can connect with online? Why would you be approaching her in the first place if everyone is doing online dating? That means you can't attract someone from an app and you can only chance out of your league by cold approaching? Who are you anyway?

People have always somewhat complained about this even in the 00s with dating websites, but according to posters like @SW15, things have dramatically turned downturn with the dating apps, smartphones and modern social media. After all, a woman can right swipe chads on tinder while you are trying to approach her, why would she deal with an average looking guy?

You can only carry a conversation if a woman is taking you on in the first place. If she's ignoring you when you approach her, or answering in polite one-line f-off answers then even if you are a brilliant conversationalist it won't make a difference. While there may be a point about skillfully carrying a conversation, that's only good if a woman is receptive and wants to connect with you in the first place. For the record, I am able to have a conversation with a woman, and an even animated one at that if the situation calls for it. Normally if a woman is receptive to me and the chemistry is right, the conversation just comes out. If you know a woman doesn't want to talk to you, then you are not going to force a conversation with her. Now going back to point, unless you are exceptionally good looking, it's unlikely IRL a woman wants to connect with you if she's into online dating, like most women are.

If you look at posters like @Josh Davidson who is willing to do tonnes of approaches. There has to be a reason why his cold approaches are not working. Maybe they would have worked better 10 years ago.

 

[SW15]

People have always somewhat complained about this even in the 00s with dating websites, but according to posters like @SW15, things have dramatically turned downturn with the dating apps, smartphones and modern social media. After all, a woman can right swipe chads on tinder while you are trying to approach her, why would she deal with an average looking guy?

I'm in my late 30s and have been looking to get laid and form relationships for over 20 years. I remember the website era of the 2000s. Being on dating websites in the 2000s was a royal pain. However, in the mid to late 2000s, websites were never as big as swipe apps became post 2014 or so.

Somewhere between 2006 and 2011 is when things got worse. Keep in mind that 2000-2006 weren't a golden age either, but they were noticeably better than 2011-present. Somewhere in late 2011-early 2012, just months after moving to a new city, I remember having a phone conversation with my uncle about how things had noticeably deteoriated in the mating marketplace as compared to 2004-2005.

2 main things happened between 2006 and 2011.

1. The iPhone hit the marketplace in 2007. By the time the 2010s decade started, people were more immersed in texting and smartphone apps.
2. Facebook moved from a college only social network to the general public in 2006. Sure MySpace was a thing from 2003-06, but I don't remember the MySpace era as having as much of an effect on women's behavior as Facebook in the late 2000s or later Instagram.

The dating market, societal tolerance for PUA and smartphones and social media has certainly changed.

Lets talk about cold approaching since you mentioned that. You could be at worst arrested, or asked by security not to return to an establishment if you are cold approaching and women start complaining on you. Case in point, Eaton Center mall in Toronto used to have lots of dating coaches and PUA approaching women in these places, until there was a crackdown and everything has turned underground and that's no longer happening.

I've done a lot of cold approaching in my lifetime. I've never had private security in a mall talk to me, nor have staffers in a grocery store bothered me, or has anything happened in any retail establishment. Roosh did talk about this in "Day Bang" and that's why he advocated for indirect game in these venues. With indirect game, you're not likely to ever be bothered by staffers or security. Indirect game has some other flaws but you'll fly under the radar in most cases. It has probably helped me that I have good facial aesthetics and a BMI in the normal range. My biggest physical flaws are that I am 5'10" (average height but not a height desired by women) and I'm not overly muscular.

Toronto is a shiithole. It's the worst mating environment in North America for men. It's a haven for radical SJWs and feminists. My home city does not feature a stellar mating environment (I've called it tied for worst in my U.S. state) but it is better than Toronto by a lot.

You want to cold approach who? Every woman is on her smartphone in public. When you go outside, virtually very woman who is not with someone, is typing away in their smartphone and their minds are not there in the present. If she's on an online dating APP then she knows there are tonnes of desperate simps that want her and she knows she could probably get a chad because that's more of a challenge to her. Then along comes you. Why would she want to deal with you if she has all that validation, attention and chads that she can connect with online? Why would you be approaching her in the first place if everyone is doing online dating? That means you can't attract someone from an app and you can only chance out of your league by cold approaching? Who are you anyway?

In the gym, good luck capturing women's attention. In the mid-2000s, only about 20% of "cute" or "hot" women wore headphones or earbuds in the gym. By the early 2010s, that number was around 90%. Now, it's probably 95-99%.

Starting around 2017, I started seeing more women wearing earbuds to the grocery store to avoid male approachers. While few men have the intestinal fortitude to do approaching at the grocery store, it's apparently too burdensome to some women to deal with it. The grocery store was a viable place to do approaches until the pandemic started and masking started. Now, it would be quite difficult to pull that off.

With day game now, outdoor approaching is the best bet. A lot of women on walking or hiking paths will have earbuds in. There are enough that won't that you'll be able to do approaches but it's going to take longer. Guys doing this will have to have more patience now than 3-5 years ago doing that. I can imagine pure street game would be more difficult now. Street game is best in big dense cities such as London or New York City. In most U.S. cities that are automobile centric, street approaching is not viable. The Sun Belt cities that boomed after the 1960s aren't good for street approaching. Examples of this would be San Antonio, Houston, Dallas, Denver, Tucson, and Phoenix. It would be difficult to street approach in any of those cities to the point that any guy in cities like those is better served finding other approach options.

 

[CAPSLOCK BANDIT]

I'm in my late 30s and have been looking to get laid and form relationships for over 20 years. I remember the website era of the 2000s. Being on dating websites in the 2000s was a royal pain. However, in the mid to late 2000s, websites were never as big as swipe apps became post 2014 or so.

Somewhere between 2006 and 2011 is when things got worse. Keep in mind that 2000-2006 weren't a golden age either, but they were noticeably better than 2011-present. Somewhere in late 2011-early 2012, just months after moving to a new city, I remember having a phone conversation with my uncle about how things had noticeably deteoriated in the mating marketplace as compared to 2004-2005.

2 main things happened between 2006 and 2011.

1. The iPhone hit the marketplace in 2007. By the time the 2010s decade started, people were more immersed in texting and smartphone apps.
2. Facebook moved from a college only social network to the general public in 2006. Sure MySpace was a thing from 2003-06, but I don't remember the MySpace era as having as much of an effect on women's behavior as Facebook in the late 2000s or later Instagram.



I've done a lot of cold approaching in my lifetime. I've never had private security in a mall talk to me, nor have staffers in a grocery store bothered me, or has anything happened in any retail establishment. Roosh did talk about this in "Day Bang" and that's why he advocated for indirect game in these venues. With indirect game, you're not likely to ever be bothered by staffers or security. Indirect game has some other flaws but you'll fly under the radar in most cases. It has probably helped me that I have good facial aesthetics and a BMI in the normal range. My biggest physical flaws are that I am 5'10" (average height but not a height desired by women) and I'm not overly muscular.

Toronto is a shiithole. It's the worst mating environment in North America for men. It's a haven for radical SJWs and feminists. My home city does not feature a stellar mating environment (I've called it tied for worst in my U.S. state) but it is better than Toronto by a lot.



In the gym, good luck capturing women's attention. In the mid-2000s, only about 20% of "cute" or "hot" women wore headphones or earbuds in the gym. By the early 2010s, that number was around 90%. Now, it's probably 95-99%.

Starting around 2017, I started seeing more women wearing earbuds to the grocery store to avoid male approachers. While few men have the intestinal fortitude to do approaching at the grocery store, it's apparently too burdensome to some women to deal with it. The grocery store was a viable place to do approaches until the pandemic started and masking started. Now, it would be quite difficult to pull that off.

With day game now, outdoor approaching is the best bet. A lot of women on walking or hiking paths will have earbuds in. There are enough that won't that you'll be able to do approaches but it's going to take longer. Guys doing this will have to have more patience now than 3-5 years ago doing that. I can imagine pure street game would be more difficult now. Street game is best in big dense cities such as London or New York City. In most U.S. cities that are automobile centric, street approaching is not viable. The Sun Belt cities that boomed after the 1960s aren't good for street approaching. Examples of this would be San Antonio, Houston, Dallas, Denver, Tucson, and Phoenix. It would be difficult to street approach in any of those cities to the point that any guy in cities like those is better served finding other approach options.

It amazes me that these guys stick to this black pill mindset and think that they are making a point... Even if cold approaching isn't the best option, having social skills is still important, like you get the online date, you still gotta socialize.

 

[corrector]

It amazes me that these guys stick to this black pill mindset and think that they are making a point... Even if cold approaching isn't the best option, having social skills is still important, like you get the online date, you still gotta socialize.

Online dating is also heavily skewed up, so that wasn't presented as a better option than cold approaching. It wasn't presented as an option at all. So, nobody said they like online dating better than cold approaching. Both sucks. Cold approaching is better than online dating. Online dating is just terrible. The issue, as @SW15 brought up above, is that you can't separate cold approaching results from online dating results, because every hot woman is hooked up to the online dating world and has an inflated sense of entitlement because of excessive simp validation and chads they have access to if they want to really hook-up. That makes the average looking guy pretty much feel invisible. This spills over into cold approaching and the quality of interaction of cold approach suffers because they know their value in the online dating realm.

 

[SW15]

Online dating is also heavily skewed up, so that wasn't presented as a better option than cold approaching. It wasn't presented as an option at all.

Sex ratios are bad on the swipe apps. Most U.S. metro areas have a surplus of single men in their 20s/30s relative to single women. The swipe apps are worse than the standard ratio.

So, nobody said they like online dating better than cold approaching. Both sucks. Cold approaching is better than online dating. Online dating is just terrible.

Yes, both suck. Even when cold approaching, most men will still get treated like shiit. While you'll avoid the absolute worst behavior if you're meeting women solely in-person random approaching and not through some electronic screen, there's still zero guarantee you'll receive humane treatment. It's just a less bad option. I have solid looks based upon not balding, having a normal range BMI, and being athletic. My shortfalls are being 5'10" and not overly muscular. I have received shiit treatment on in-person approaches. There are even cases of tall & muscular men (@sangheilios ) being treated like shiit from a cold approach.

The issue, as @SW15 brought up above, is that you can't separate cold approaching results from online dating results, because every hot woman is hooked up to the online dating world and has an inflated sense of entitlement because of excessive simp validation and chads they have access to if they want to really hook-up. That makes the average looking guy pretty much feel invisible. This spills over into cold approaching and the quality of interaction of cold approach suffers because they know their value in the online dating realm.

This is accurate. It's not solely swipe apps though. Social media is a contributing factor. There could be a single woman a man meets through some real life approach and she may not be using a swipe app. That's good. She is using social media in some form. At a bare minimum, she's probably using Facebook, Twitter, or Instagram and getting hit on there. If she's white collar (likely since few women work blue collar jobs), she has a LinkedIn page and she's getting hit on there too. However, the more serious career women are LinkedIn power users and most masculine men are wise to avoid the hard charging careerist women.

Both social media and swipe apps are making women fussier because they are inflating their ego due to constant validation.

Any guy is better off approaching in the real world but this is something even real world approaching men encounter in their interactions.

 

[Georgepithyou]

Both social media and swipe apps are making women fussier because they are inflating their ego due to constant validation.

Any guy is better off approaching in the real world but this is something even real world approaching men encounter in their interactions.

Social circle really is the best option for quality women. A lot of women would refuse to date men simply because they are outside of her social circle. I know it sounds stupid but a huge amount of women have this mindset.

They would rather settle with joe blow from her friend group then date Chad the outsider. The average man should stick to social circle game and avoid OLD all together.

 

[SW15]

Social circle really is the best option for quality women. A lot of women would refuse to date men simply because they are outside of her social circle. I know it sounds stupid but a huge amount of women have this mindset.

They would rather settle with joe blow from her friend group then date Chad the outsider. The average man should stick to social circle game and avoid OLD all together.

The problem is that the average man is unable to put together a social circle capable of producing enough dates for him to find a meaningful match that could last for 2-3 years, let alone a cycle of 2-5 year relationships over a 20 year period.

Some of this is not the fault of the average man. If a man's parents relocate him during childhood, he won't have a good social circle. Adulthood relocations will also affect social circles. The men I see who have done social circle stayed in the same place for the entirety of their childhoods (they can thank their parents for that) and remained in that same area as adults. I've been a transplant myself with both childhood and adulthood moves. In any city, transplants don't get into the good social circles that might produce enough good dating options.

I should also point out that a lot of the guys who do well in social circle game due to geographical constancy are blue pill betas who put rings on it, end up divorced, and then go through the social circle well when their marriages go down the toilet. It's rare that you see a player with multiple short term relationships do primarily social circle. You must be at least a serial monogamist to do social circle well. If you have too many short term relationships, you'll end up irritating your social circle to the point that they won't help facilitate new interactions.

Another common way (but becoming less common in the last 20 years) that men put together social circle relationships is by settling down with their college girlfriends who they met in their college classes or college social circles. For decades, as more people went to college, more people formed extended romantic relationships from random interactions on campus with the man approaching the woman. Around 2000, as the Millennials were first getting to college, formation of couples in college diminished. I've tracked a lot of my contacts from my college years over time on social media. Almost no one today from that cohort is with their college era partner. I know one guy who is younger than I am in a 10+ year long LTR with his college girlfriend and he put a ring on it. He seems more of the exceptional than the rule according to the large scale quantitative data points that exist.

 

[Georgepithyou]

I should also point out that a lot of the guys who do well in social circle game due to geographical constancy are blue pill betas who put rings on it, end up divorced, and then go through the social circle well when their marriages go down the toilet. It's rare that you see a player with multiple short term relationships do primarily social circle. You must be at least a serial monogamist to do social circle well. If you have too many short term relationships, you'll end up irritating your social circle to the point that they won't help facilitate new interactions.

What you forget is, 99% of men on the planet are blue pill. Truly red pill men make up a very small minority. Spending a lot of time in the manosphere gives you a false perception of reality.

Almost no one today from that cohort is with their college era partner. I know one guy who is younger than I am in a 10+ year long LTR with his college girlfriend and he put a ring on it. He seems more of the exceptional than the rule according

It might be lower yes, but still the relationships are healthier then cold approach/OLD on average. With OLD for example we are limited to the leftover women who never met their college/highschool sweetheart. Cold approach can be a hit and miss but you need to go through a lot of rejection to finally get a good girlfriend.

Having a good social circle plus Red pill knowlrdge would easly get you with the top 20% of women

 

[CAPSLOCK BANDIT]

What you forget is, 99% of men on the planet are blue pill. Truly red pill men make up a very small minority. Spending a lot of time in the manosphere gives you a false perception of reality.




It might be lower yes, but still the relationships are healthier then cold approach/OLD on average. With OLD for example we are limited to the leftover women who never met their college/highschool sweetheart. Cold approach can be a hit and miss but you need to go through a lot of rejection to finally get a good girlfriend.

Having a good social circle plus Red pill knowlrdge would easly get you with the top 20% of women

The thing is, alot of men don't want to be directly associated with their unfiltered and unedited views online. Culture has changed immensely.

You have to understand, there are 2 types of statistics, samples and records. Samples are no different than Family Feud answers, it's the same thing, ask 100 people, get 23/100 saying this, thus 23% of people are doing this, which is obviously questionable.

Statistics using records are issued out by courts, meaning each case is being individually tracked and recorded, no sampling, this is what you want to use.

https://www.cdc.gov/nchs/fastats/marriage-divorce.htm According to

In 2019 6.1 people per 1,000 were getting married. Saw 2.1 divorces per 1,000. These are low, low numbers.

Red Pill has been taking off for a long time now and it's growth is going to be exponential, the thing is, it's not even the Red Pill doing most of the leg work, it's the behavior of the modern woman.