Why do people behave this way towards me and how to address it?

[deadmasterx]

This is the feminine game. I don't know if you ever noticed, but women are the ones who actually shame other women, call them fat, *****, so on.

Supposing that everything you said is absolutely true, then it's a matter of confidence of yours. Women will be like "alright, you're hot, but what are you made of?" and try to "bully" you. That's when you show you're also emotionally strong, which doesn't seem to be the case yet.

My tip for you is indifference. Don't be passive aggressive, don't fight back. When you fight back with someone who unfairly offended you, you're getting in this person's game, you got the bait.

Are women saying **** about you? Give her a smile and ignore her, as if she didn't exist. Women in special has a good intuition to feel your weaknesses. They will be touching your wound until you heal them with your masculinity.

My ultimate tip for you is: recognize your worth and be indifferent. Walk your way and don't listen to anything else but constructive criticism. Don't be passive aggressive, don't lose your time with them.

 

[sangheilios]

Haters are gonna hate.

I have had "friends" that were always questioning my motives and opinions. One of them in particular was quite a bit bigger than me physically, but insecure and dumb. I later found out from my roommate who dated him briefly that he had erectile trouble.

Needless to say i lost all respect for him and any care for his constant disagreements with me.

Ignore the haters and let them wallow in their misery.

I missed this post but I have an anecdote from someone I knew that was similar. There was a guy around my age that was part of my social circle who we hung out with for a couple years, though he was cut out last summer. Anyway, looking back he was really passive aggressive and would make subtle put downs to a lot of people, they weren't really obvious but paying attention there were definitely some issues there. There was some house party we had gone to and he hooked up with, or at least attempted to, with a woman that was there. Later on I recall overhearing a conversation this same woman was having to another female about this particular man and she mentioned he had a borderline micro penis, she described it as thumb size.

 

[mrgoodstuff]

Supposedly a few Hollywood females called Michael Jaw White "dumb and happy" because he doesn't go around throwing his weight around:

The other reason she was insulted, was that she expected him to sleep with her, and he wanted to honor his wife. I know in that environment it's not that common, but Mr White obviously views it as a position of strength and self control, plus he obviously wants to honor his wife.

 

[oldmanofthesea]

The reason why people are doing this to you, is because you're a big dude. You have all it takes to be a guy who people can prod and poke at and yet you're supposed to be (in their mind) someoone who isn't phased by it because of your size. However, because you are phased by it and used to a pattern of belieivng people demean you, you might give off that vulnerable side a bit too much.. That vulnerability coming from a guy of your size and stature makes it easy for people to talk to you like that, even though you're handsome af and physically a beast.

Think of it like people telling a girl that is a 10/10 model that her makeup looks bad, just because they know shes super vulnerable about everything about herself, despite being practically an heavenly blessed beauty lol

This is a good observation and suggestion. But I would also tie this together with what is said below too:

But I would keep the rest of your life quiet in real life. Don’t even talk about career/investing or your dating life or your workout goals/accomplishments. Use that introversion to your advantage. Don’t tell people shyte about yourself unless it’s absolutely necessary.

Your appearance speaks for itself. But your accomplishments are only known if you brag.

People respond very poorly to others who are incongruent - for example, extremely successful, but totally insecure. It's like natural selection in the animal kingdom kicks in and everyone gangs up on the animal in the pack with the gimp leg.

When a woman sees a guy who is handsome and has a nice body, she expects him to have the life experience (and thus, attitude) the looks and body granted him. When she senses a lack of confidence, she knows something must be very wrong with him. The little jabs are her way of testing for this congruency.

Same for success. A very successful person should be generally confident and not care about petty remarks from lesser individuals. Success is a form of masculinity and with both of these things comes confidence and wisdom.

Looks and financial success are part of the overall equation, but social skills and confidence are not replaceable by looks and financial success. It's easier to be a jobless dad-bod who is unfalteringly confident and charming to get girls than it is for a rich guy with a good body and lack of confidence or game to get girls.

If a guy brags on himself, in order to be congruent, he had better not come off butt-hurt by critique and ****-tests (or if it's bad enough to warrant a sharp response, he had better throw it back at them even more confidently). If a guy brags on himself and then puts his tail between his legs when someone makes jabs at him, it demonstrates that he is not confident and even worse, was trying to brag on himself to win respect he felt he doesn't even deserve.

Bragging on one's self, even if you think you're doing it subtly, is bad news. It means you are trying to win respect from people and that you don't think you deserve it. You should know you are worthy and likeable just as you are. But not in a narcissistic way. In old school "game" lingo, this is phrased as, "never qualify yourself to a woman". But you should never qualify yourself to anyone. The second you start talking yourself up, even if you think you're being sly about it, you are giving all your power to the other person. You are telling them, "I think you're better than me and I want you to like me so I'm going to say these things in the hope that you will consider me worthy." So it generally has the opposite affect you wanted. The best way for people to learn of your accomplishments is to find out on their own, and believe me they do.

 

[sangheilios]

This is a good observation and suggestion. But I would also tie this together with what is said below too:



Your appearance speaks for itself. But your accomplishments are only known if you brag.

People respond very poorly to others who are incongruent - for example, extremely successful, but totally insecure. It's like natural selection in the animal kingdom kicks in and everyone gangs up on the animal in the pack with the gimp leg.

When a woman sees a guy who is handsome and has a nice body, she expects him to have the life experience (and thus, attitude) the looks and body granted him. When she senses a lack of confidence, she knows something must be very wrong with him. The little jabs are her way of testing for this congruency.

Same for success. A very successful person should be generally confident and not care about petty remarks from lesser individuals. Success is a form of masculinity and with both of these things comes confidence and wisdom.

Looks and financial success are part of the overall equation, but social skills and confidence are not replaceable by looks and financial success. It's easier to be a jobless dad-bod who is unfalteringly confident and charming to get girls than it is for a rich guy with a good body and lack of confidence or game to get girls.

If a guy brags on himself, in order to be congruent, he had better not come off butt-hurt by critique and ****-tests (or if it's bad enough to warrant a sharp response, he had better throw it back at them even more confidently). If a guy brags on himself and then puts his tail between his legs when someone makes jabs at him, it demonstrates that he is not confident and even worse, was trying to brag on himself to win respect he felt he doesn't even deserve.

Bragging on one's self, even if you think you're doing it subtly, is bad news. It means you are trying to win respect from people and that you don't think you deserve it. You should know you are worthy and likeable just as you are. But not in a narcissistic way. In old school "game" lingo, this is phrased as, "never qualify yourself to a woman". But you should never qualify yourself to anyone. The second you start talking yourself up, even if you think you're being sly about it, you are giving all your power to the other person. You are telling them, "I think you're better than me and I want you to like me so I'm going to say these things in the hope that you will consider me worthy." So it generally has the opposite affect you wanted. The best way for people to learn of your accomplishments is to find out on their own, and believe me they do.

I can agree with some of the points on here. I wasn't consciously boasting about what I have going for me but I feel what was going on was something unintentional. As I mentioned earlier on this thread, whenever I reach certain goals or achieve certain accomplishments I experience a lot of feelings related to pride and it most likely comes out without me really intending on "boasting". I think a big part of this is over my lifetime I've literally received next to almost no recognition for the things I have going for me, though at the same time seeing people at a lower level being applauded for their actions. It's almost like an environment where everyone else is heard and I am just invisible. However, with that said I also feel a big issue is that I'm around people that aren't on par with me, which results in them feeling insecure and experiencing the need to bring me down.

Most people aren't in my position, nor did they have the experiences that I had over a lifetime so this is all very unique.

 

[dude99]

An issue I've had my entire life is that other people seem to go out of their way to try to demean my accomplishments, qualities, etc. When I was younger this was primarily family oriented, but now as an adult I notice that other people behave in a similar manner towards me, albeit in more of a subtle and passive aggressive manner. This is something that I have experienced from both men and women and I'm not really sure what to make of it but the deeper intuitive feeling that I get is they are doing this out of insecurity they experience around me.

I've posted this a million times on here, but I'm a white man that is 6'4" and fit/muscular at 240 lbs. I have a resting heart rate in the 50s, I can do reps on chin ups with another 50 lbs. added, push sleds that weigh almost 1000 lbs....I could go on and on with the physical feats I am capable of, which is well beyond the scope of the vast majority of men and I've never taken steroids. I have a handsome face and despite being 31 I generally get guesses in the mid to late 20s range. More normal people will compliment me, both men and women, but it's not very often this happens.

Anyway, I've had other men make some weird comments about my physique or physical capabilities and it's always just your average dude you see in the gym. I've had very average and even out of shape women criticize my appearance. For instance, a few years back I had this one who was in her early 20s, she wasn't at all attractive and her bf was this super goofy looking dude and yet she was criticizing the way I look. I've had a couple women tell me I have a "dad bod". I had an average woman point out a woman around my age who was sporting a stomach and she told me that was my league. What adds to this is I've had horrendous experiences with approaching and interacting with average and even unattractive women, which feeds into what these people are telling me and it creates this repetitive negative loop over and over again. For every 1 good comment I get I probably receive 20 of these more negative put downs.

I also do really well for myself financially. I've never had a glamorous or high paying/high status job but I have a good work ethic and I'm very very intelligent with money, investments, etc. I have an investment portfolio that is well within the 6 figure range and with some of it I earn enough in monthly dividends to cover the cost of a studio apartment in my area..

Anyway, I've had people criticize things like that and they'll say how I was only able to get that because of xyz.

This has been a trend my entire life and I'm not really sure what to make of it. It's been a huge issue for me because it lowers my confidence and in direct relation with dating I feel like I can't figure out what types of women I should be going for. It's created an issue where I have this endless and repetitive negative loop that I find difficult to get out of and I'm not sure what I can be doing in order to change that. I'm not sure if it is a simple fix of just cutting out certain people or possibly something more.

Haters gotta hate. You need to thicken your skin. It sounds like you are doing ok and ultimately if you are happy where you are in life who gives a flying fiddle what anyone else has to say.

People will always try to tear others down just to try to make themselves feel more important. Not giving a fack is they way to handle it.

People will hate people because their own lives are unfulfilling. They are jealous of others just because they exist.

If you are happy with yourself, happy with your accomplishments, happy with where you are in life, don't let a hater, a jealous idiot, a self entitled moron, or anyone who just old fashioned covets what you have, tear you down.

Idiots will be jealous. B'tches will try to hurt you to entertain themselves. Morons will try to bring you down because they aren't happy with their own lives. Just be you.

 

[B80]

I can agree with some of the points on here. I wasn't consciously boasting about what I have going for me but I feel what was going on was something unintentional. As I mentioned earlier on this thread, whenever I reach certain goals or achieve certain accomplishments I experience a lot of feelings related to pride and it most likely comes out without me really intending on "boasting". I think a big part of this is over my lifetime I've literally received next to almost no recognition for the things I have going for me, though at the same time seeing people at a lower level being applauded for their actions. It's almost like an environment where everyone else is heard and I am just invisible. However, with that said I also feel a big issue is that I'm around people that aren't on par with me, which results in them feeling insecure and experiencing the need to bring me down.

Most people aren't in my position, nor did they have the experiences that I had over a lifetime so this is all very unique.

out of interest, were you good looking, naturally muscular when in your teens?

i'm 6"2 with a 9/10 physique, called good looking by others, but as I was a bit awkward and shy when younger, more of a 'late bloomer', so don't have rock solid confidence in myself. barely spoke to girls at school when in teens. women can get away with being late bloomers more as men will persue physically attractive women left, right and centre.

generally considered a nice bloke, charming when it right mood, but can be introverted, very self concious, self doubt, over think things when not on form and feeling social. if not drunk, can feel extremely awkward and self concious around attractive women, resulting in probably boring conversations for them. that said, certainly feel more self assured compared to when younger.

I've spent years in gym, financially well off from career and side line business, but still not solid when it comes to women. but I know key is investing more time around them, but time is limited due to daughter, career, side lines, gym and I'm not overly driven to persue women as seem more hassle than its worth. I derive a lot of pleasure, feedback from my other pursuits in life.

I was married/in relationship for 12 years. That was to someone 9 years younger who persued me and I settled as felt like something I should do as was approaching late 20's and never had a long term relationship, just a load of one night stands, some that went on for months, from bars/clubs.

women probably pickup on that and its not congruent with what they expect from someone with that physical appearance/presence. almost like that expect someone really extroverted, extremely confident, even arrogant.

overall a nice problem to have in scheme of things.

but yes, encountered a lot of what you talk about with people, particularly in my 20's, 10-15 years ago. i took line of laughing it off and some insecure friends would start making 'jokey' comments to me, one person in particular. I always laughed it off, as you should if the odd joke among friends, but it kept going and going and by end would really eat at me/bug me, but didn't know how to deal with it as I'd laughed it off for so long. eventually exploded at him and wasn't a good look on me. I'm gnerally quite amiable, respectful to others, get along well with men, don't go out of my way to dominate people around me, attain a position in the heirachy etc. whereas he was a couple of years older, short chap who clearly was a bit insecure and felt he needed to assert himself to establish himself in the social group, and making digs at others was how he felt was the best approach. Didn;t see him for years, then met up with him a couple of years back and were getting along great in a pub, when the conversation moved onto my side line business, at which point he got visibly agitated and made a few personal digs (which I immediately put him straight on). kind of cemented that he's jealous, insecure type and hadn't grown up since I last saw him. very odd in my opinion,

I'm always impressed by others success and intrigued to know more about it, how they got there, whereas others can't deal with it some reason - alien to me. Think some people have preconceived ideas of where you/others should be in the pecking order and don;t like it if they see you as exceeding those expectations and try to pull you back down/keep you in line - crabs bucket effect. I know its his problem and kind of feel sorry for him as can't be nice to have that kind of mindset.... to actually get annoyed by friends doing ok for themselves, very odd imo.

 

[sangheilios]

out of interest, were you good looking, naturally muscular when in your teens?

i'm 6"2 with a 9/10 physique, called good looking by others, but as I was a bit awkward and shy when younger, more of a 'late bloomer', so don't have rock solid confidence in myself. barely spoke to girls at school when in teens. women can get away with being late bloomers more as men will persue physically attractive women left, right and centre.

generally considered a nice bloke, charming when it right mood, but can be introverted, very self concious, self doubt, over think things when not on form and feeling social. if not drunk, can feel extremely awkward and self concious around attractive women, resulting in probably boring conversations for them. that said, certainly feel more self assured compared to when younger.

I've spent years in gym, financially well off from career and side line business, but still not solid when it comes to women. but I know key is investing more time around them, but time is limited due to daughter, career, side lines, gym and I'm not overly driven to persue women as seem more hassle than its worth. I derive a lot of pleasure, feedback from my other pursuits in life.

I was married/in relationship for 12 years. That was to someone 9 years younger who persued me and I settled as felt like something I should do as was approaching late 20's and never had a long term relationship, just a load of one night stands, some that went on for months, from bars/clubs.

women probably pickup on that and its not congruent with what they expect from someone with that physical appearance/presence. almost like that expect someone really extroverted, extremely confident, even arrogant.

overall a nice problem to have in scheme of things.

but yes, encountered a lot of what you talk about with people, particularly in my 20's, 10-15 years ago. i took line of laughing it off and some insecure friends would start making 'jokey' comments to me, one person in particular. I always laughed it off, as you should if the odd joke among friends, but it kept going and going and by end would really eat at me/bug me, but didn't know how to deal with it as I'd laughed it off for so long. eventually exploded at him and wasn't a good look on me. I'm gnerally quite amiable, respectful to others, get along well with men, don't go out of my way to dominate people around me, attain a position in the heirachy etc. whereas he was a couple of years older, short chap who clearly was a bit insecure and felt he needed to assert himself to establish himself in the social group, and making digs at others was how he felt was the best approach. Didn;t see him for years, then met up with him a couple of years back and were getting along great in a pub, when the conversation moved onto my side line business, at which point he got visibly agitated and made a few personal digs (which I immediately put him straight on). kind of cemented that he's jealous, insecure type and hadn't grown up since I last saw him. very odd in my opinion,

I'm always impressed by others success and intrigued to know more about it, how they got there, whereas others can't deal with it some reason - alien to me. Think some people have preconceived ideas of where you/others should be in the pecking order and don;t like it if they see you as exceeding those expectations and try to pull you back down/keep you in line - crabs bucket effect. I know its his problem and kind of feel sorry for him as can't be nice to have that kind of mindset.... to actually get annoyed by friends doing ok for themselves, very odd imo.

Without getting into details, I was a severe late bloomer physically and as a child I was by nature very socially introverted and of an awkward nature.

I didn't really have any friends or much of a social life until just a few years ago. I'm also not really in many situations to meet or interact with women that I'm attracted to, this has been recently but also was the case throughout high school and up. I'm in way better shape than most men in general, and for my age this is very rare, so I genuinely don't run into many women that I truly view as my actual league. The issue is when I do meet them I have such a lack of experience that it throws them off and I get rejected, because in their minds it is in congruent. Another problem I have in regards to this is experiencing feelings of oneitis, which I personally believe is a result of having such a hard time finding a woman that is on par with me who is also single at the time we meet.

However, I've tried interacting with and approaching women that aren't like this and it never seems to work out. I've tried OLD and apps and I'll get nothing from that with the exception of some messages from women that weigh almost as much as I do. I've tried approaching average women at bars before and I'd get attitude. 2 years ago I went to a speed dating event, which I had posted about on here, and literally had these women stick their noses in the air at me. It's gotten to the point where I just don't bother because experiences like that are not good for my mental health. Repetitive thoughts were "I'm taller and in better shape than the vast majority of men and I'm actually a really good guy but yet this is how I'm supposed to be treated?!?!?". What added to this is I'd see these average looking guys getting success and when I'd interact with them it was quite apparent there was nothing remarkable about them.

As I mentioned on this thread, I'd receive criticism from people that aren't like me and would get negative feedback that I addressed above.

 

[manfrombelow]

OP, you have the physical quality that I (and assummingly many others) can only dream of. What you need now is to train/force yourself to do these:

1. Cut people out, if need be. There are sadly toxic, low-level, and low-quality people that disguise themselves as "close people" in our lives, but they add no positive values to our lives and most of the time only bring us down with their toxicity and stupidity (amongst other sh!t they brought to our lives), and therefore we have to cut them out, if we want to improve the quality of our lives, and personal well-being.

2. Learn Stoicism aka The Art of Not Giving a Fvck.

Personally, I learned the hard way that these two skills are actually very essential that a man must have in his arsenal in order to live, to improve, and to thrive in life as a postive, healthy and happy human being.

 

[Velasco]

The issue is when I do meet them I have such a lack of experience that it throws them off and I get rejected, because in their minds it is in congruent. I've tried approaching average women at bars before and I'd get attitude.

women probably pickup on that and its not congruent with what they expect from someone with that physical appearance/presence. almost like that expect someone really extroverted, extremely confident, even arrogant.

if not drunk, can feel extremely awkward and self concious around attractive women, resulting in probably boring conversations for them.

alcohol is what makes us introverts feel extroverted/extremely confident/arrogant for that short time period with regards to picking up hot girls from bars/clubs/streets. Every hot girl i've laid in my life, i was on some type of drug and feeling 10/10. and no you don't need to be on some substance for the entirety of the relationship. just that one night.

 

[sangheilios]

alcohol is what makes us introverts feel extroverted/extremely confident/arrogant for that short time period with regards to picking up hot girls from bars/clubs/streets. Every hot girl i've laid in my life, i was on some type of drug and feeling 10/10. and no you don't need to be on some substance for the entirety of the relationship. just that one night.

I'm not comfortable with the idea of having to rely upon an external source, in this case alcohol or drugs, in order to attain a particular desire, in this case a woman. I know someone who is in his late 30s, he drinks and gets high on a regular if not daily basis, I'm not sure if it is daily but it's definitely very close. Anyway, I asked him what started that habit and we had a very honest conversation about it. He mentioned that it started when I was in his early 20s because growing up he was really socially awkward/anxious and start to use weed and alcohol in order to ease these feelings whenever he was in social environments.

 

[Velasco]

He mentioned that it started when I was in his early 20s because growing up he was really socially awkward/anxious and start to use weed and alcohol in order to ease these feelings whenever he was in social environments.

yea i get that. for me, i don't need anything when i'm in social environments where I'm not actively trying to get girls where i need to be 100% on, if I want to get what I want (many use drugs (coffee is also a drug lol) when they need to be 100% on (focused/confident whatever), when doing some other activity: sports/business). I only go out picking up girls on weekends (1 day or I'll skip a week here or there cuz I'm good for that week). would suck to need to be "100% on", on a daily basis.

 

[darksprezzatura]

Are you assuming that most people who you meet care about you or give you much thought in their daily lives?

Do you think it's personal everytime someone says something to you or just how they are with most people?

Could it be that they're just projecting their insecurities on you?

Is this headspace a recent development, if yes has there recently been any event that affected you recently?

 

[mrgoodstuff]

If you are in a good headspace, and you look the way you say you do, and you carry yourself well, some will be angry for you "getting attention". You don't have to "try" to "get attention", they just see it that way. True attention wh0res want a monopoly on attention. White knights, cucks and the downtrodden also won't like to see you move in confidence. It will anger them.

 

[B80]

yea i get that. for me, i don't need anything when i'm in social environments where I'm not actively trying to get girls where i need to be 100% on, if I want to get what I want (many use drugs (coffee is also a drug lol) when they need to be 100% on (focused/confident whatever), when doing some other activity: sports/business). I only go out picking up girls on weekends (1 day or I'll skip a week here or there cuz I'm good for that week). would suck to need to be "100% on", on a daily basis.

100% same here. Sounds a bit weird, but when out with my daughter at parks, have no issue chatting with other women, feeling at ease, connecting with others. When on nights out feels more intense and contrived, resulting in more more pressure which = more alcohol to smooth things over.

 

[Guy69JackBlue]

100% same here. Sounds a bit weird, but when out with my daughter at parks, have no issue chatting with other women, feeling at ease, connecting with others. When on nights out feels more intense and contrived, resulting in more more pressure which = more alcohol to smooth things over.

When you're on nights out... You're a creep until proven otherwise.

When in the park with daughter... You're a shining example of a man!

You're the same person in both scenarios.

 

[oldmanofthesea]

From everything I have seen and heard from you, and I think I may have offered this advice some time back, but I really think it comes down to a few things:

1. Lack of social confidence
2. Lack of empathy
3. A specific type of narcissism

I do not mean any of this in an insulting way. I'm specifically outlining this to give you ideas for a path forward.

You've told your story many times. I too am a late bloomer. Just turned 45 and everyone guesses me 28, even with a beard. 6'0 160lbs. So I can somewhat identify with your situation, however, while I wasn't at the lunch table with the coolest of the cool kids in high school, I didn't suffer the things you did (aside from isolated incidences), and I do believe that a lot of the problems you are facing today stem from how you were treated back then. Being treated that way will cause a lack of confidence, a lack of empathy for others (since they seemed to have no empathy for you and your feelings at all), and, over time, as you continuously felt like an outsider and worthless, your brain developed the coping mechanism of figuring out how to make yourself feel something other than worthless and you it did this by causing you to be a hard worker, focused, dedicated, and recognizing your achievements. The problem with the latter is that, as a survival mechanism, when combined with a lack of empathy and lack of social confidence, it ends up making one bitter, arrogant, and entitled - you look at yourself and your accomplishments and look down on others as inferior. It's not really your fault - it's just a product of your experiences. But you have to break it to get past the issues that are haunting you.

When I got divorced and had to build my social circle nearly from scratch, the things that helped me most were to focus less on myself and more on others. This can be summed up with the phrase, "giving value." This means focusing on others and being curious about them and really listening to them and asking them deep questions. It also means doing things to help people have fun. This means organizing group outings where you do all the research and planning and coordination. This means volunteering at events. This means hosting parties/gatherings. You can start small. Host dinner and drinks with a few people. Grow it from there. Join some fun sport leagues/groups - things like ultimate frisbee, running, etc. I really like volunteering at aid stations for races. You meet a ton of people, hang out and talk with the other people at the aid station you're working, and you get to bring special food and drink items you think will be really appreciated by the runners (especially alcohol hah). You have to shift your focus externally instead of being so self-focused on you and your career etc in order to break the cycle. This doesn't mean becoming a people-pleaser - I don't think you're at risk of that. Over time, as you meet more people, become more curious about them, host more parties and events, plan more group trips/outings, you will start to notice a change in how you see people. Your chains and shackles and fears and insecurities formed by the thousands of people who treated you poorly over your life will start to dissolve. It takes time, but you'll start to see the general good in people and you will see the appreciation and admiration they have for you. Not everyone is good, but you'll be surrounded by so much good that the bad will be a drop in the bucket you can tune out and let go of. You also have to make a very deliberate effort to tell yourself every day, "I choose to focus on the good in people." Write it on your mirror and say it once a day. When your life experiences have caused you to look down on others from the wall you've built to protect yourself, assuming everyone approaching the wall is an intruder trying to hurt you, you will have to move past that by being almost over-the-top positive about everything until that cynicism has been eliminated. "Never condemn, criticize, or complain."

It seems like you're putting all your chips into your financial/professional life which is commendable but only one part of life. You've already seen how happy you are with financial success..... don't expect that to change as more wealth comes. I highly recommend you start investing more time and energy into your social life. I know you have a social life but I'm talking about taking it to the next level, extending it, meeting new people, and being conscious and deliberate in changing how you think and act around people. If you choose to instead feel your accomplishments entitle you to a "normal" happy social life without any additional effort on your part, that's like someone popular but lazy saying their popularity entitles them to the same financial/professional successes you have, just because they are popular with people. Some things come naturally easier to some than others. Some harder. It's just the way of things. You're going to have to be willing to work at it very deliberately, just like you have for your career.

 

[mrgoodstuff]

From everything I have seen and heard from you, and I think I may have offered this advice some time back, but I really think it comes down to a few things:

1. Lack of social confidence
2. Lack of empathy
3. A specific type of narcissism

I do not mean any of this in an insulting way. I'm specifically outlining this to give you ideas for a path forward.

You've told your story many times. I too am a late bloomer. Just turned 45 and everyone guesses me 28, even with a beard. 6'0 160lbs. So I can somewhat identify with your situation, however, while I wasn't at the lunch table with the coolest of the cool kids in high school, I didn't suffer the things you did (aside from isolated incidences), and I do believe that a lot of the problems you are facing today stem from how you were treated back then. Being treated that way will cause a lack of confidence, a lack of empathy for others (since they seemed to have no empathy for you and your feelings at all), and, over time, as you continuously felt like an outsider and worthless, your brain developed the coping mechanism of figuring out how to make yourself feel something other than worthless and you it did this by causing you to be a hard worker, focused, dedicated, and recognizing your achievements. The problem with the latter is that, as a survival mechanism, when combined with a lack of empathy and lack of social confidence, it ends up making one bitter, arrogant, and entitled - you look at yourself and your accomplishments and look down on others as inferior. It's not really your fault - it's just a product of your experiences. But you have to break it to get past the issues that are haunting you.

What if some of these more popular people polluted his social spheres, and thus he was not getting good attention for a very long time, and he had to learn how to internally validate himself? I mean if the social currents are usually bleak for you, why would you listen to their valuation of you, if you need to be able to take care of yourself, provide food and shelter and have career growth? Why would you listen to their feedback one bit if it is very superficial, and minimizing?

When I got divorced and had to build my social circle nearly from scratch, the things that helped me most were to focus less on myself and more on others. This can be summed up with the phrase, "giving value." This means focusing on others and being curious about them and really listening to them and asking them deep questions. It also means doing things to help people have fun. This means organizing group outings where you do all the research and planning and coordination. This means volunteering at events. This means hosting parties/gatherings. You can start small. Host dinner and drinks with a few people. Grow it from there. Join some fun sport leagues/groups - things like ultimate frisbee, running, etc. I really like volunteering at aid stations for races. You meet a ton of people, hang out and talk with the other people at the aid station you're working, and you get to bring special food and drink items you think will be really appreciated by the runners (especially alcohol hah). You have to shift your focus externally instead of being so self-focused on you and your career etc in order to break the cycle. This doesn't mean becoming a people-pleaser - I don't think you're at risk of that. Over time, as you meet more people, become more curious about them, host more parties and events, plan more group trips/outings, you will start to notice a change in how you see people. Your chains and shackles and fears and insecurities formed by the thousands of people who treated you poorly over your life will start to dissolve. It takes time, but you'll start to see the general good in people and you will see the appreciation and admiration they have for you. Not everyone is good, but you'll be surrounded by so much good that the bad will be a drop in the bucket you can tune out and let go of. You also have to make a very deliberate effort to tell yourself every day, "I choose to focus on the good in people." Write it on your mirror and say it once a day. When your life experiences have caused you to look down on others from the wall you've built to protect yourself, assuming everyone approaching the wall is an intruder trying to hurt you, you will have to move past that by being almost over-the-top positive about everything until that cynicism has been eliminated. "Never condemn, criticize, or complain."

It seems like you're putting all your chips into your financial/professional life which is commendable but only one part of life. You've already seen how happy you are with financial success..... don't expect that to change as more wealth comes. I highly recommend you start investing more time and energy into your social life. I know you have a social life but I'm talking about taking it to the next level, extending it, meeting new people, and being conscious and deliberate in changing how you think and act around people. If you choose to instead feel your accomplishments entitle you to a "normal" happy social life without any additional effort on your part, that's like someone popular but lazy saying their popularity entitles them to the same financial/professional successes you have, just because they are popular with people.

Now you do realize that those "lazy" but popular people do think their popularity makes them "better" than someone like our member? That's how they think.

Yes they would feel like they are entitled to every bit of his success.

Some things come naturally easier to some than others. Some harder. It's just the way of things. You're going to have to be willing to work at it very deliberately, just like you have for your career.

 

[sangheilios]

From everything I have seen and heard from you, and I think I may have offered this advice some time back, but I really think it comes down to a few things:

1. Lack of social confidence
2. Lack of empathy
3. A specific type of narcissism

I do not mean any of this in an insulting way. I'm specifically outlining this to give you ideas for a path forward.

I apologize for replying so late to this, I've been spending a lot of time thinking about what you mentioned here and wanted to really reflect upon it before responding.

I agree with much of what you posted on here, which is something we have discussed, and I do feel that those are the root causes of this, which were also further deepened by experiences during my teens through well into my 20s. I truly believe that I am a very unique individual and that nothing about my life is all that "normal" or run of the mill, and there are tons of other very extreme things that I've experienced that I've not mentioned on here. I know that a lot of people may say this about themselves but I deep down do feel this way. I personally feel that some of this is part of the reason why I have such a hard time relating to people on a deeper level. However, I also have long had the feeling that most other people can't relate at all to me in any manner or fashion, so it has created this repetitive cycle.

I'm going to get into some more specific things.

As I've pointed to on this thread, as well as countless other times on this forum, very few men are physically like me and that has often been a source of confusion/struggle for me, which I'll get into some examples.

A little over a year ago I had tried spending one on one time with a female who was by chance within my sphere of existence. She was very average, honestly I'd rate her a 4, but I went for it because it was there and she seemed nice and I found speaking to her lead to interesting conversations. It didn't line up in my favor, even responded by saying "ewww" but later that year she was in a relationship with a man who was pushing 300 pounds and literally didn't work and was broke. I wasn't even really that into her and only pushed for anything because it was an opportunity but her going for a man like that but putting me down was very confusing to me. In my mind the biggest issue was the fact that I'm being criticized but yet this woman is happily bringing in a person who is of a much lower level than I am. While there is a lot of truth in that statement, this is in fact a comping mechanism as you mentioned.

A little over a week ago I was at the gym and by chance I ran into this girl I had gone on a date with almost 3 years ago, I had met her on a night out with friends and had 1 date with her, which resulted in her ghosting me afterwards. Anyway, both recognized each other and she was with a guy, obviously her bf. The bf was very average and nothing like me physically. However, while I recognized that I started reflecting upon it and then considered the idea of what I've been behaving like to make these women turn away. I said "If she is going for a guy like that but turned me down there must be something that I need to be doing that is causing this and I don't know what it is". Which I'm going to get into below.

A repetitive internal thought that I'd experience was "I'm taller and in better shape than any man the vast majority of women have dated or slept with but yet I'm getting criticized by them?". As others have mentioned on here, I do strongly suspect that it is possible I'm around people, including women, that aren't on my level and knowing this they are behaving this way towards me out of insecurity. @SW15 is familiar with the metro I live in and I've spent quite a bit of time trying to ascertain if this is possibly a part of the dilemma that I'm currently in, in that it may be harder for me to find people, including women, who are more on my level. However, as you've mentioned I don't feel that the current area I'm living in and the people that I seem to have come into my life are the only variables that are at play.

I do feel that much of my personal behavior and the interactions I'm having with the people around me have played a major influence in developing the social experiences I've been having. For instance, one of the issues I've posted about on here with the people in my area is that there are a lot of gold diggers, social climbers, etc. While this is most certainly true, as I can cite tons of examples of people that I've never been very personal with, there were certain things that I had been doing which caused this energy to pop into my life. One of the issues that I actually feel I may be guilty of is advertising a bit too much of myself. I don't use social media, but whenever I have success or have certain things going for me I think about it a lot and I feel that this is unintentionally coming out with the interactions I'm having. I think for some, especially those that may be a bit more insecure and not have as much going for them, it puts them off and makes them feel that I'm a braggart. For others though, I think they seek to be within my sphere so as to profit/benefit from me in some manner, more or less riding my coattails. I feel that while this may be partially my fault I also feel that I'm in a unique set of circumstances where I'm around people who aren't on the same page as me. This is why I'm trying to keep my successes on the down low but I've also strongly considered the possibility that relocating may be a good fit for me.

I will admit, last year my limited social life went to almost nothing. When COVID hit I used it as a reason to work as much as possible, and in my honest opinion this was the correct thing to do given the circumstances I and millions of others were in due to the closings. However, this developed into a habit that has gone well into this year and it wasn't until relatively recently that I actually spotted this and made an effort to reel it in. I've been making an effort to socialize more with people and have been going out of my comfort zone. For instance, last week I was supposed to meet up with a friend of mine and one of his friends. My friend didn't show but his friend, who I know but not close with, was there with someone I had never met. I actually felt this uncomfortable feeling right then and there, like I just wanted to leave, but I made myself work through it and spent the next 2-3 hours socializing with them. I didn't really have anything in common with that new guy I met, but I listened to the stories he was telling me and asked him questions. This is something that I have a hard time with and I feel is a good thing for me to work on.

 

[SW15]

@SW15 is familiar with the metro I live in and I've spent quite a bit of time trying to ascertain if this is possibly a part of the dilemma that I'm currently in, in that it may be harder for me to find people, including women, who are more on my level. However, as you've mentioned I don't feel that the current area I'm living in and the people that I seem to have come into my life are the only variables that are at play.

I do feel that much of my personal behavior and the interactions I'm having with the people around me have played a major influence in developing the social experiences I've been having. For instance, one of the issues I've posted about on here with the people in my area is that there are a lot of gold diggers, social climbers, etc.....This is why I'm trying to keep my successes on the down low but I've also strongly considered the possibility that relocating may be a good fit for me.

I am familiar with the metro area where you reside. It has upsides and downsides. There are worse places in the United States to attempt to have a healthy sex life but there are also better ones. While I think you have a legitimate claim that geography is playing a factor in your dating woes, I think the problems that you have are less related to geography and more related to issues specific to you.

Relocation is not often the solution to fixing one's dating/relationship problems. If a metro area has a population of fewer than 150,000 people, a man is 25 to 45, and the man in question didn't spend his entire childhood in that area (indicative of a weak social circle), then that's a justifiable case to move to another area. In the situation I just described, that man will suffer from too little choice. Smaller areas are often wastelands for dating/relationships. Some also have employment issues.

I find that roughly the sweet spot for a metro area size is around 250,000-700,000.

Moving from one larger area to another rarely solves the problem.

In recent years, I have soured on bigger cities. Once a metropolitan area gets over ~750,000 in population, women start to get far more demanding because they have an absurd number of choices. The higher the area's population, the worse attitudes that you'll encounter from women though it's not a perfect direct correlation. There are other factors at play, such as the influence of careerism/feminism/SJW-ism, single male-single female ratios, and % of residents who transplanted to the area as adults. Areas with more transplants have weaker social circles. When social circles are weaker, people resort to swipe app dating because they aren't meeting people in social circles. There used to be more cold approaching, though that has steadily been changing in the last 10-20 years. You will be treated the worst by women as a swipe app applicant for her vagina as compared to someone from her social circle. Cold approach is in between those two points, but closer to swipe app.

I didn't think gold diggers and social climbers were as prominent in your area as many other areas. While I have no doubt those things exist where you are, I can name multiple other metro areas where those things are much worse.

If I found myself living in your area and had a good job, I would look internally. Women want to have sex with you as a 6'4" and muscular guy, despite your mediocre metro area. You don't even need that much charisma. They have an image of you as a confident stud who can plow their vaginas well. Play to that image. You need confidence and just ask them questions.