The best possible advice that I can give

[Glassguy]

Dont get involved mentally or emotionally with women. Conversation is fine, but dont mentally or emotionally invest in women, especially in the first few months.

Only physically.

That in itself will nearly always leave you in control, strong frame, have them chasing and leave you in the driver's seat. It also separates you from every beta male out there hitting this chicks up, telling them how "beautiful" they are, etc.

Once you have a chick hook, line and sinker, you can ease up a little if you find yourself in somewhat of a relationship with her. But you have to always be investing LESS than she is to remain in control.

*This is only advice for people who can get dates.

Happy Hunting

 

[SirBigBell]

Great advice @Glassguy. I think where it gets difficult sometimes, for me anyway, is when everything starts off all hot and heavy, and SHE is the one that wants to see you all the time...SHE is calling you all the time....SHE turns on the girlfriend vibes and makes you feel as good as she possibly can. The sex is amazing, and everything's good.

She's giving me all this great stuff, and it's just hard to say No, and keep that masculine frame, when she's throwing herself at you, wanting more and more.

Then, inevitably, 2-3 months into it, you can actually feel her start to pull away. She takes longer to return calls/texts, she starts saying stuff like 'I'm really busy with work this week', etc...

It's something I still don't understand. Like, SHE's the one who initiated all this stuff. And a few months into it, SHE starts pulling back.

And you're like, 'All I did was give her what she wanted.'

There are many reasons why women who display high interest appear to pull back as the relationship grows. I will touch on some of them:

1. Finish line concept
A woman will pursue and use all tricks in her bag to win you over and get you to swallow her hook. Once she feels you are secured she will naturally tone it down because the goal has been achieved. Nobody continues to sprint after crossing the finish line.

2. Burnout
The 100m dash is executed in 3 phases: take off, cruise, finish. A sprinter uses up the most energy in the take off phase (the first 20m) in order to go burst from stationery out of the blocks and build up speed. This energy expenditure is not sustainable over the entire race, so the sprinter transitions into the cruising phase, which calls for less energy spend.

Likewise, a woman will display very high interest in the take off phase of the relationship, but she naturally cant sustain this. Women in the take off phase are even mortified to fart and burp in your presence. They then transition into the cruise phase, where they are more comfortable and feel safe to pursue other demands of life without worrying that you will slip away from their grasp. This transition into cruise mode can sometimes feel and appear like a pull back, but its not.

3. Evaluation adjustment
A woman displays high interest initially in line with her estimated perception of your value. She will study you as you get to know each other better. The more information she gathers about you, the better she becomes at evaluating you and adjusting her interest accordingly. Sometimes women get their value estimation wrong and initially treat you like Ferrari, only to realise later that you are actually a Hyundai.

 

[BackInTheGame78]

Dont get involved mentally or emotionally with women. Conversation is fine, but dont mentally or emotionally invest in women, especially in the first few months.

Only physically.

That in itself will nearly always leave you in control, strong frame, have them chasing and leave you in the driver's seat. It also separates you from every beta male out there hitting this chicks up, telling them how "beautiful" they are, etc.

Once you have a chick hook, line and sinker, you can ease up a little if you find yourself in somewhat of a relationship with her. But you have to always be investing LESS than she is to remain in control.

*This is only advice for people who can get dates.

Happy Hunting

Maybe a post on how to get dates would be helpful as well since it appears a lot of guys are struggling with this right now.

I am an OLD aficionado and find it relatively easy but some aren't into it.

 

[Glassguy]

Maybe a post on how to get dates would be helpful as well since it appears a lot of guys are struggling with this right now.

I am an OLD aficionado and find it relatively easy but some aren't into it.

Getting the dates, in my opinion, is just burning leads if you dont know what to do with them once you get them.

But to touch on this, I will go back to self improvement as I always do. Not getting dates comes down to (in order):

1.) Looks- not doing it for a majority of women
2.) Lack of value/status
3.) Lack of being able to hit women up in the right manner, invite her out, not be too aggressive and needy, clingy, insecure. It should be a little conversation and invite them out to do something that you will do anyways- which is pulling her into your frame. I never use the word "Date" as it implies that I am looking for something or that I am putting pressure on the situation.
4.) Socially inept- If you dont have decent communication skills that you can also put at bay when needed, its going to be hard to get dates.

Looks first. Without attraction, nothing else will happen. Once they are attracted you have to show some value to show that you are worth her investing in. Even minimal investments like a woman initiating texting wont happen without it. Once a woman has found a man attractive enough to go out with and there is some value to be shown, then the man needs to simply invite her out. No dinners. Just drinks for the first time meeting up. Then sit back and be charismatic, witty and only speak to continue her talking about stuff. Listen to what she says because women will tell you things they shouldnt and not even realize it. Store that stuff away, good or bad.

On a first meet up, a man's frame, stature and body movements should be a man's way of communicating, not his mouth.

Then escalate.

 

[Medina]

LOL what is the point then?

Why don't you just move to Amsterdam and bang the hottest prostitutes from all over the world. It costs 50 euros a pop. Which is probably the same as an American date

We're getting to the point, where there is no point

Seriously. If there is NO connection besides a hole. Why don't you just bang hookers?

 

[BackInTheGame78]

LOL what is the point then?

Why don't you just move to Amsterdam and bang the hottest prostitutes from all over the world. It costs 50 euros a pop. Which is probably the same as an American date

We're getting to the point, where there is no point

Seriously. If there is NO connection besides a hole. Why don't you just bang hookers?

If you are spending 50 euros on a date you are doing it all wrong.

 

[Glassguy]

LOL what is the point then?

Why don't you just move to Amsterdam and bang the hottest prostitutes from all over the world. It costs 50 euros a pop. Which is probably the same as an American date

We're getting to the point, where there is no point

Seriously. If there is NO connection besides a hole. Why don't you just bang hookers?

Sorry, but most of us have higher standard than hookers. You post some good info, but this I dont agree with. To each his own.

 

[TheProspect]

Dont get involved mentally or emotionally with women.

That in itself will nearly always leave you in control, strong frame, have them chasing and leave you in the driver's seat.

Most men I think fvck up here because they get attached first before the woman & become emotionally compromised.

They then lose the proper perspective to successfully manage the dynamic which inevitably causes them to lose control, lose frame, and they end up chasing instead of the other way around...

Power then shifts to the woman and that's usually when her attraction and respect for you dies.

Getting involved emotionally right off the bat with a woman, in other words, investing more than she does, is needy behaviour from a man.

Which goes back to a saying that goes something like: "The power in all relationships lies with whoever cases less." It's pretty much impossible to operate with leverage in the dating game when you are over-investing in chicks.

Emotional involvement just isn't an effective strategy early on, quite the opposite in reality. The game changes a bit in LTRs, but that's a different topic.

We've all learned the hard way -- we get attached first, we stop the behaviours that built attraction/interest in the first place, we lose frame, the girl loses interest, and we get nexted or end up with a low-quality chick whose needy herself.

 

[Medina]

Sorry, but most of us have higher standard than hookers. You post some good info, but this I dont agree with. To each his own.

I don't blame you for your conclusion. Anyone who dates enough women, will view it the same way

I'm merely pointing out that it's getting a little ridiculous now

But that's the game

 

[Glassguy]

Most men I think fvck up here because they get attached first before the woman & become emotionally compromised.

I agree with your post. Specifically what I quoted.

IMO most guys end up chasing because they attach themselves to women who have done absolutely nothing to earn the man's attachment.

I am not saying in my initial post that you can NEVER be emotionally connected to a woman, but its a fatal flaw to attach yourself to a woman who has done nothing to earn it. The more she does to EARN it, the more you can let yourself be emotionally invested in her.....a little at a time.
They do this because they have no other OPTIONS.

That is where I think most men bite the dust with women and have no control in the dynamics of the relationship.

 

[Glassguy]

I don't blame you for your conclusion. Anyone who dates enough women, will view it the same way

I'm merely pointing out that it's getting a little ridiculous now

But that's the game

I date a ton of women. I totally agree with your principle, its just not for me.
Ultimately I do find myself in relationships, even if they are mini relationships. I tend to continue the screening process throughout and eventually cut them loose.

But women have become ridiculous overall but the stronger frame a man has, the higher standards a man has, eventually lets the garbage take itself out in terms of those ridiculous women.

 

[TheProspect]

Seriously. If there is NO connection besides a hole. Why don't you just bang hookers?

It's a guaranteed lay with a chick who gives guaranteed sex to literally any man who will pay for it. It's a hole anyone and everyone has access to.

I think some men like a bit of uncertainty -- a challenge. Nothing worth having is easily had. Bedding the shy, cute girl from the library provides more intrinsic satisfaction than paying for a hooker. One feels like you may have worked for it or earned it (you had to at least approach and face the possibility of rejection), whereas the other is simply instant gratification.

Men often find novelty in new conquests. A hooker isn't a conquest. There is nothing to overcome to attain your spoils.

I think some of us men like playing the game and the motivation isn't always purely putting our tool in a hole by any means necessary, it's rather just the logical consequence of the game we play. AND it's not always a guaranteed consequence -- there's uncertainty. That's what makes it fun to play.

 

[Medina]

It's a guaranteed lay with a chick who gives guaranteed sex to literally any man who will pay for it. It's a hole anyone and everyone has access to.

I think some men like a bit of uncertainty -- a challenge. Nothing worth having is easily had. Bedding the shy, cute girl from the library provides more intrinsic satisfaction than paying for a hooker. One feels like you may have worked for it or earned it (you had to at least approach and face the possibility of rejection), whereas the other is simply instant gratification.

Men often find novelty in new conquests. A hooker isn't a conquest. There is nothing to overcome to attain your spoils.

I think some of us men like playing the game and the motivation isn't always purely putting our tool in a hole by any means necessary, it's rather just the logical consequence of the game we play. AND it's not always a guaranteed consequence -- there's uncertainty. That's what makes it fun to play.

Exactly

But you're counter-acting the advice we all agree on.... don't chase her. It adds fuel to my point, we are in RIDICULOUS times. And before anyone accuses me of "whining". I'm a married man with a mistress half my age. Life isn't bad at all

I'm just honest enough to realize how ridiculous everything is

 

[TheProspect]

I agree with your post. Specifically what I quoted.

IMO most guys end up chasing because they attach themselves to women who have done absolutely nothing to earn the man's attachment.

I am not saying in my initial post that you can NEVER be emotionally connected to a woman, but its a fatal flaw to attach yourself to a woman who has done nothing to earn it. The more she does to EARN it, the more you can let yourself be emotionally invested in her.....a little at a time.
They do this because they have no other OPTIONS.

That is where I think most men bite the dust with women and have no control in the dynamics of the relationship.

Yep, a woman who feels like she hasn't earned an emotional investment from a guy will not value that investment. She will instead see that emotional expression and/or investment from the guy as neediness and a demonstration of low-value & no options.

Girls who are insecure, or who have a lot of baggage & self-esteem issues, will often even get annoyed by a guy who emotionally invests to early: "What the fvck is wrong with him? What does he see in me?". If she perceives herself as low-value, then any man who emotionally invests in her, must be even lower value in her mind. And boom. Attraction killer. Cue the sh!tty behaviour from her.

 

[mrgoodstuff]

Exactly

But you're counter-acting the advice we all agree on.... don't chase her. It adds fuel to my point, we are in RIDICULOUS times. And before anyone accuses me of "whining". I'm a married man with a mistress half my age. Life isn't bad at all

I'm just honest enough to realize how ridiculous everything is

What would your 2005 mindset feel about how things are today?

 

[TheProspect]

But you're counter-acting the advice we all agree on.... don't chase her. It adds fuel to my point, we are in RIDICULOUS times.

I don't think I implied chasing women.

There's a difference between chasing uninterested women (and the problems associated with that) and taking action to make things happen.

You have to take initiative and pursue women who interest you. After that, you have to be able to take initiative and lead them through a natural escalation that ends in sex. You can do this without emotional attachment.

Most women without self-esteem issues aren't going to directly open for you, even if they're attracted to you. They're not going to escalate interactions. In fact, they lose respect and attraction when a man fails to do so.

The problems arise, and we see it on here all the time, from men who CHASE uninterested or flaky women.

 

[Lookatu]

I agree with a lot of things said above.

For me, my biggest "a-ha" moment was a couple years ago when I realized that guys(including myself) were artificially, foolishly, and idealistically pinning our perceptions of a woman on the first date, first week, first month of knowing someone.

This is hardly a practical approach as you should only be investing emotionally when you get to know her more and see how she ACTUALLY is rather than how YOU THINK she is. Guy's often do not take this practical approach. That's why I see butthurt guys that didn't get second dates and such(me included before).

You can't really truly know someone from a short period of time and as such, you shouldn't generate false emotions for them.

 

[Medina]

What would your 2005 mindset feel about how things are today?

I would be disgusted tbh

Things are shameful now but that's the way it is

 

[Glassguy]

For me, my biggest "a-ha" moment was a couple years ago when I realized that guys(including myself) were artificially, foolishly, and idealistically pinning our perceptions of a woman on the first date, first week, first month of knowing someone.

This is hardly a practical approach as you should only be investing emotionally when you get to know her more and see how she ACTUALLY is rather than how YOU THINK she is. Guy's often do not take this practical approach. That's why I see butthurt guys that didn't get second dates and such(me included before).

Good post. If a man has say 4 current options, he doesnt put that much stock into just one. When he only has one option on the table, he starts to sweat how she is acting, whether or not she likes him, whether or not there will be a second date, etc. Women sense this. They sense the desperation.

Now a man with many options goes on the same first date, has fun, just enjoys the evening and doesnt give a shyte (outcome indifferent) and the woman gravitates towards that man.

The desperate man will fantasize about potential serious relations with a woman right off the bat. That is silly thinking. It leads to her qualifying him instead of him qualifying her.

Enormous difference in outcomes as well.

 

[Lookatu]

Good post. If a man has say 4 current options, he doesnt put that much stock into just one. When he only has one option on the table, he starts to sweat how she is acting, whether or not she likes him, whether or not there will be a second date, etc. Women sense this. They sense the desperation.

Now a man with many options goes on the same first date, has fun, just enjoys the evening and doesnt give a shyte (outcome indifferent) and the woman gravitates towards that man.

The desperate man will fantasize about potential serious relations with a woman right off the bat. That is silly thinking. It leads to her qualifying him instead of him qualifying her.

Enormous difference in outcomes as well.

I agree with this but the challenge I pose to all guys here is to not even think with your emotions even if you only have one option. Learn to squash that desperation and be practical about things. Don't put the cart before the horse as they say regardless if you have 4 girls lined up or only 1.

You can go at it in a parallel path(dating multiple girls at once), or a serial path(dating one girl at a time). Regardless of which one, guys should train themselves to not let emotions(or artificial emotions) get the best of them.

As always as a reminder to the new guys here, ask yourself what this girl offers besides what's in between her legs and her looks. Strip that away and what redeeming qualities does she have, does she pass MY tests and requirements?