Hater move?

[zekko]

At 36, I'm getting to an age where I am the creepy dude trying to haul 21-year olds from the club at 2AM. It doesn't mean talking to 21-year old women is off-limits, or that a sexual relationship between consenting adults of different ages is somehow inappropriate. But there are contexts, and situations, where initiating such a relationship is immature for a man my age.

Maybe one of the girls reminded him of his daughter, and he wanted to tell her so. Lol.

I'm around this guy's age, but the good news is that if I can make into my 80s, I might be able to get to that point where I can get away with anything because I'd be the harmless old man who doesn't know what he's doing.

 

[rjc149]

Maybe one of the girls reminded him of his daughter, and he wanted to tell her so. Lol.

Maybe lol -- but if he then used that line as a self-invitation to sit down and start chatting them up, that's a little weird.

I personally believe that aging gracefully is accepting your age and not clinging to vestiges of youth. A lot of people react to that indignantly "fvck that, age is just a number, do whatever makes you happy" etc. etc. which I sympathize with to an extent, for certain activities. Knowing which activities should be left behind is a demonstration of social intelligence and an acceptance of self, which are very attractive traits for an older man to have.

 

[redskinsfan92]

I guess you can't confirm whether the young women were giving visual cues of their discomfort, but it's a fairly universal given that attractive 20-something women don't want a random grandpa inviting himself to their table to run game on them.

Whether we like them or not, there are social customs and norms that we abide by to remain standing members of human society. Elderly men attempting pickup on women young enough to be their daughters is universally regarded as inappropriate, and I really don't give a fvck what the pickup community has to say about the acceptability of multi-decade age gaps, ie it's "baller!" or whatever. It's not. Sh!t is borderline creepy. Even if the guy is Billy Joel or Leo DiCaprio. The whole Hugh Hefner situation really weirded me the fvck out.

The other man, from an older generation where white knight chivalry was celebrated, took it upon himself to enforce that social custom that all of us are aware of.

Now, appeasing and complying with a stranger attempting to assert dominance over you is a b!tch move and if he's willing to take it to blows, you need to show that you're willing to meet him there. This usually results in a mutual decision to back down. It's also a social custom to regard middle-aged men getting into bar fights as extremely immature and low value.

I'm with feminism on this one. If these grown-ass women had a problem with grandpa sitting himself down at their table trying to spit game, they can handle it for themselves.

I'd like to hear you give one LOGICAL reason why a 60 year old man can't bang a 25 year old.

 

[rjc149]

I'd like to hear you give one LOGICAL reason why a 60 year old man can't bang a 25 year old.

Nowhere in any of my posts did I say that a 60 year old is expressly forbidden from having sex with a 25 year old under any circumstances. There is nothing inherently wrong about consenting adults having sex, even with a 30-40 year age gap.

But I'll respond in the spirit of expressing my opinion in an open forum.

Look -- I know guys on here love nursing the hope that because men hit the wall much later, that means they can bury themselves in hot young poon until their d!cks stop working, and it's not weird or inappropriate at all. It's totally baller and awesome. For some guys, it's they're only hope to continue their existences. It's their only weapon against women -- that old men have the last laugh.

A 60 year old man, in a high-status position in society, which gives him access to younger women, is absolutely able to seize opportunities that present themselves to him. Do I still think it's weird? Yes. I do. Do I think Hugh Hefner's lifestyle was disgusting and degenerate? I do. Anyone who admires or worships Hugh Hefner is cut from the same cloth as the pathetic posing betas who follow Dan Bilzerian on Instagram.

But I digress. A 60 year old man who is just an average, middle-aged Joe, maybe divorced, maybe married to a wife who's way past her prime, is out hitting the bars and clubs on Friday night. He's got his shirt with one too many buttons undone, wearing frayed jeans and dress shoes, out spitting game on girls just out of college. There's no reason why he's not allowed to do that. He's allowed to do whatever he wants. He's not breaking the law or harming anyone. He's just embarrassing himself and acting unattractively for a man his age. It's not dignified. And yeah, I personally consider it creepy and inappropriate behavior. That's my point.

 

[mrgoodstuff]

I guess you can't confirm whether the young women were giving visual cues of their discomfort, but it's a fairly universal given that attractive 20-something women don't want a random grandpa inviting himself to their table to run game on them.

Whether we like them or not, there are social customs and norms that we abide by to remain standing members of human society. Elderly men attempting pickup on women young enough to be their daughters is universally regarded as inappropriate, and I really don't give a fvck what the pickup community has to say about the acceptability of multi-decade age gaps, ie it's "baller!" or whatever. It's not. Sh!t is borderline creepy. Even if the guy is Billy Joel or Leo DiCaprio. The whole Hugh Hefner situation really weirded me the fvck out.

The other man, from an older generation where white knight chivalry was celebrated, took it upon himself to enforce that social custom that all of us are aware of.

Now, appeasing and complying with a stranger attempting to assert dominance over you is a b!tch move and if he's willing to take it to blows, you need to show that you're willing to meet him there. This usually results in a mutual decision to back down. It's also a social custom to regard middle-aged men getting into bar fights as extremely immature and low value.

I'm with feminism on this one. If these grown-ass women had a problem with grandpa sitting himself down at their table trying to spit game, they can handle it for themselves.

And if he was a famous actor or local celebrity?

 

[rjc149]

And if he was a famous actor or local celebrity?

I'm not handing down set-in-stone commandments. I realize I have an opinion on the matter that others won't care for, or like. Especially those in the pickup/seduction community, or those who subscribe to the guidance that only women aged 18-23 offer anything of value to men.

There's a golden rule, called "half your age + 7." Now, that's also totally arbitrary and purely a social construct. But, since social construct is indelibly integrated into pickup and seduction, I think certain social constructs are worth abiding by, to be optimally respected within society, and thus optimally attractive.

I think actors, celebrities, or otherwise very high-status men entering sexual relationships with women young enough to have been their newborn daughters when they were in their 30's or 40's, is weird, but, the ability to attract those women is often a byproduct of behaving like an older, more dignified, high-status man. If 20-something girls want to give, then whether he takes is up to the man's values and what he wants from women.

A middle-aged man behaving like a 20 or 30-something, out "sarging" on much younger women is less age-appropriate and therefore less socially-acceptable. It's almost universally seen as creepy and unattractive by attractive women. I don't think anyone here should bullsh!t themselves in that regard -- but I understand that "professional pickup artists" frequently need to bullsh!t people to make a living.

 

[mrgoodstuff]

I'm not handing down set-in-stone commandments. I realize I have an opinion on the matter that others won't care for, or like. Especially those in the pickup/seduction community, or those who subscribe to the guidance that only women aged 18-23 offer anything of value to men.

There's a golden rule, called "half your age + 7." Now, that's also totally arbitrary and purely a social construct. But, since social construct is indelibly integrated into pickup and seduction, I think certain social constructs are worth abiding by, to be optimally respected within society, and thus optimally attractive.

I think actors, celebrities, or otherwise very high-status men entering sexual relationships with women young enough to have been their newborn daughters when they were in their 30's or 40's, is weird, but, the ability to attract those women is often a byproduct of behaving like an older, more dignified, high-status man. If 20-something girls want to give, then whether he takes is up to the man's values and what he wants from women.

A middle-aged man behaving like a 20 or 30-something, out "sarging" on much younger women is less age-appropriate and therefore less socially-acceptable. It's almost universally seen as creepy and unattractive by attractive women. I don't think anyone here should bullsh!t themselves in that regard -- but I understand that "professional pickup artists" frequently need to bullsh!t people to make a living.

I agree. There is a way that its done.

 

[rjc149]

I agree. There is a way that its done.

Correct. An older man attracting younger women as a function of a high-status lifestyle is different than an older man regressing into immaturity to give himself sexual access to those age groups.

 

[rjc149]

Let me illustrate my sentiment with a personal anecdote.

In college, I had a buddy who got sick of dorm life and decided to get a real apartment off-campus. His roommate was a 38-year old guy named Chance. Good looking guy, in good shape, and could probably pass for late 20's.

Chance started tagging along with us to house parties and college bars. He would play wing and open set after set. We were 21, maybe 22, and he wasn't old, but obviously not in our age cohort. I remember girls finding it creepy and Chance never got lucky, as far as I saw.

My buddy went to China to study abroad the next semester. Chance kept hitting me up to go to parties. I stopped taking his calls. It was weird.

My feelings about it haven't changed much since. So maybe I'm just age-ist and prude about stuff like that. If that's the consensus here, that's okay. I'll accept that I'm just a tightass about big age gaps.

 

[mrgoodstuff]

Let me illustrate my sentiment with a personal anecdote.

In college, I had a buddy who got sick of dorm life and decided to get a real apartment off-campus. His roommate was a 38-year old guy named Chance. Good looking guy, in good shape, and could probably pass for late 20's.

Chance started tagging along with us to house parties and college bars. He would play wing and open set after set. We were 21, maybe 22, and he wasn't old, but obviously not in our age cohort. I remember girls finding it creepy and Chance never got lucky, as far as I saw.

My buddy went to China to study abroad the next semester. Chance kept hitting me up to go to parties. I stopped taking his calls. It was weird.

My feelings about it haven't changed much since. So maybe I'm just age-ist and prude about stuff like that. If that's the consensus here, that's okay. I'll accept that I'm just a tightass about big age gaps.

If he was a known former athlete or frat member at that school he could've pulled it off or a local celebrity.

 

[zekko]

Chance started tagging along with us to house parties and college bars. He would play wing and open set after set. We were 21, maybe 22, and he wasn't old, but obviously not in our age cohort. I remember girls finding it creepy and Chance never got lucky, as far as I saw.

Sounds like a pretty decent wing honestly. Not afraid to approach, and doesn't take a girl for himself. Kind of ideal in a way.

 

[Gstring]

Haha! None of you thought those two older guys were friends or neighbors. For one guy to say that to the other he must know him.

 

[rjc149]

Sounds like a pretty decent wing honestly. Not afraid to approach, and doesn't take a girl for himself. Kind of ideal in a way.

Yes he would have probably been a decent wing, had he been in age-appropriate venues approaching women in their late 20s and 30s, not college house parties approaching 19 year olds. There is just no way anyone here is going to convince me that I’m being close-minded on this.

 

[rjc149]

If he was a known former athlete or frat member at that school he could've pulled it off or a local celebrity.

Yes— but he wasn’t.

 

[redskinsfan92]

I'm not handing down set-in-stone commandments. I realize I have an opinion on the matter that others won't care for, or like. Especially those in the pickup/seduction community, or those who subscribe to the guidance that only women aged 18-23 offer anything of value to men.

There's a golden rule, called "half your age + 7." Now, that's also totally arbitrary and purely a social construct. But, since social construct is indelibly integrated into pickup and seduction, I think certain social constructs are worth abiding by, to be optimally respected within society, and thus optimally attractive.

I think actors, celebrities, or otherwise very high-status men entering sexual relationships with women young enough to have been their newborn daughters when they were in their 30's or 40's, is weird, but, the ability to attract those women is often a byproduct of behaving like an older, more dignified, high-status man. If 20-something girls want to give, then whether he takes is up to the man's values and what he wants from women.

A middle-aged man behaving like a 20 or 30-something, out "sarging" on much younger women is less age-appropriate and therefore less socially-acceptable. It's almost universally seen as creepy and unattractive by attractive women. I don't think anyone here should bullsh!t themselves in that regard -- but I understand that "professional pickup artists" frequently need to bullsh!t people to make a living.

Instinct. It's all instinct. You can call things weird or inappropriate, but men of all ages attracted to indicators of health and fertility in women. Those indicators are youth, beauty, and such.

 

[redskinsfan92]

Yes he would have probably been a decent wing, had he been in age-appropriate venues approaching women in their late 20s and 30s, not college house parties approaching 19 year olds. There is just no way anyone here is going to convince me that I’m being close-minded on this.

You sound like a bit of a prude on age gaps. I will grant you a 38 year old man should have better things to do than go to contstant frat parties, though nothing wrong with the occasional party. He must not have appeared to be in his late 20s if he came off as creepy.

 

[rjc149]

Instinct. It's all instinct. You can call things weird or inappropriate, but men of all ages attracted to indicators of health and fertility in women. Those indicators are youth, beauty, and such.

On a purely biological level, women are fertile and able to reproduce when they begin menstruating. When they're 14. But we live in human society, we abide by social constructs. So grown men don't pursue 14 year old girls. Because it's creepy and inappropriate and fvcking wrong. Biology's got nothing to do with it.

You sound like a bit of a prude on age gaps.

I'll grant you that. But I think the social constructs of western society, in which I live, and I'm guessing you as well, agrees with me on the age thing.

Edit-- to add, men in many civilized societies of past ages have taken 12, 13, 14 year olds as brides, and knocked them up. That was considered acceptable by their social constructs. What makes someone an upstanding, status-holding member of their society is the degree to which they conform to their society's constructs. A 38-year old guy living with a college kid, out trying to pick up sorority girls, is considered highly unattractive -- even by myself, hence why I didn't want to associate with him.

 

[redskinsfan92]

On a purely biological level, women are fertile and able to reproduce when they begin menstruating. When they're 14. But we live in human society, we abide by social constructs. So grown men don't pursue 14 year old girls. Because it's creepy and inappropriate and fvcking wrong. Biology's got nothing to do with it.


I'll grant you that. But I think the social constructs of western society, in which I live, and I'm guessing you as well, agrees with me on the age thing.

Women's ideal age childbearing is early 20s. This is the age range men of all ages are attracted to.

 

[redskinsfan92]

Ultimately, it seems ideal for a man in his late 30s who has maximized his potential and finances to have a relationship and child with a 24 year old woman who is at her peak health and fertility.

 

[rjc149]

Women's ideal age childbearing is early 20s. This is the age range men of all ages are attracted to.

I edited my post above.