This is something Ive never understood how some people say being the man means you have to lead etc always initiate for dates. If you are the only one setting up dates and she is fvcking you how does it matter.
And then there is the otherside which says wait till she reaches out then set up logistics.
At what point does does leading become pursuing/chasing? Im not too sure because if she is fvcking doesnt it mean things are decent, if not good.
Honestly this may be the best question anyone has asked me here. I have never been asked this before and it isn’t something often discussed. It is also something that took me a while to figure out so I'm happy to be able to answer it.
I was fairly fresh off my divorce at the time I dated that girl and was still learning things, but also had begun to enjoy a lot of successes in dating by applying what I was learning. Because so much of what I was learning (“game”, red pill, etc) was new, foreign, and counterintuitive to me, I was following the approach of using “formulas” that some people recommend.... things like “always wait 3-5 days between calls” and “only initiate text to setup dates” and “only set one date a week.” The majority of men here on SS scorn the formula approach because the formulas don’t work universally and it is much better to understand how to adapt to each and every situation dynamically. I fully agree with that position, but the problem with that approach is that you have to have a lot of experience and absolute conviction in your mind on many of the core principles discussed here on SS (things like you are the prize, women should not be pedestalized, you are the sexual selector not the woman, she should qualify herself to you not you to her, etc). For me as a newcomer back then, and probably for a lot of guys learning red pill and game, there are just too many variables in each given situation for us to make the right decisions/moves without our emotional brains overpowering us and clouding our decisions through self-rationalization. That results in our justifying emotionally-driven behavior like setting up too many dates or initiating too much contact or investing too much.
An example of the self-rationalization I just mentioned would be what I laid out in my original post: she’s accepting the dates so even though she is pulling back, we are still fvcking so all is good and I should just keep on exactly as is. That was the wrong move on my part.
Unlike many guys here, I still believe in the formulas for new-comers because it helps accelerate your learning by increasing your success with women earlier before you become a natural. Sort of a fake it till you make it. More successful encounters with women leads to more learning experiences and confidence. Then the natural mindset of all the core inner-game principles taught here really starts to take effect. And then you become more and more of a natural.
But in my example, the formula of “set one date a week and as long as she is agreeing to it and sleeping with you, she is interested and all is good” was not working well for this specific situation and girl. In my situation with her, she was drifting away even with one date a week. That is not uncommon when you listen to various stories people tell here. Sometimes once a week is too much for some women, and not enough for others. Part of it depends on how invested are you? Do you do nice things for her all the time? Initiate contact all the time? Compliment her all the time? Accept poor behavior from her, or accept lack of investment from her? Are you doing a good job of balancing all those things I just mentioned against her actions? That can be tough for a newcomer.
So to your question of, “If she is fvcking doesn’t it mean things are good?” The answer is no because most women will fvck right up to the day they drop you cold. Reading all the stories here about guys who are totally shocked and confused at being dumped “out of the blue” is evidence, and I have had plenty of those same experiences myself.
And to your question of, “When does leading become chasing,” it becomes chasing when you notice her pulling away, and/or when you notice you are investing more into the relationship than she is. It’s as simple as that, but it can take a guy a while to learn to identify this, and also how to operate in such a way that you require investment from her, even if it means you deliberately ask for it (by asking her to do things for you). It also means being seriously honest with yourself about your feelings..... a lot of guys get into a situation where they think they are going to FWB or plate a girl, but they aren’t honest with themselves that they caught feelings for her. Then they start projecting their interest onto her and that clouds their judgement. Now she is investing less and wearing the pants. Women don’t want to wear the pants and it dries them up, yet ironically it’s in their nature to constantly keep trying to get themselves into to that position. You have to learn to see it not as a negative thing, but as the way women test you in order to feel your strength and masculine power.
This is where leading women comes into play. You lead by setting the pace and the expectations and you hold your ground. You lead by determining how often to set the dates. She tries to take the lead by pulling back? You regain the lead by pulling back harder. Afraid doing that will cause you to lose her? Then she wasn't into you enough for it to work anyway. You lead by investing in her. She doesn't invest equally back? You regain the lead by ASKING for her investment and seeing if she complies. She doesn't follow that lead by complying? You regain the lead again by pulling back on your investment and on your time and attention. And you lead by knowing your boundaries and enforcing them - leading her to understand how you want to be treated. That's it.
Having sex, and meeting you for a date are not the only forms of compliance. If those are the only forms of investment you are giving to her, then it is balanced and it can stay there. But if you are investing more than this, then you are looking for something more than a plate, and you should expect her to do the same. If she doesn't, she's telling you she isn't interested in that level (yet, or ever), so you pull back and keep things how they were - you don't keep investing. My mistake was I kept investing.
