Rejection Theory

[zekko]

I was recently reading about something called "Learned Helplessness Theory". Basically, this states that if you attempt a task multiple times without success, then you give up because it teaches you that you can't succeed at it.

I was wondering how this squares with the PUA idea of collecting rejections, and rejections being a good thing, and how you should not GAF about rejections?
It seems to me that if you start out getting a number of rejections, you're going to learn that you are not successful with the opposite sex, and you will likely end up joining MGTOW lol. It seems to me that repeatedly receiving rejections is not going to be a good thing for most men, it's not going to bolster their confidence.

I guess part of the answer is that in this context, they aren't viewing rejections as a failure, but as an objective it itself. But I still think that repeated rejections will take their toll on a guy.

 

[BackInTheGame78]

I was recently reading about something called "Learned Helplessness Theory". Basically, this states that if you attempt a task multiple times without success, then you give up because it teaches you that you can't succeed at it.

I was wondering how this squares with the PUA idea of collecting rejections, and rejections being a good thing, and how you should not GAF about rejections?
It seems to me that if you start out getting a number of rejections, you're going to learn that you are not successful with the opposite sex, and you will likely end up joining MGTOW lol. It seems to me that repeatedly receiving rejections is not going to be a good thing for most men, it's not going to bolster their confidence.

I guess part of the answer is that in this context, they aren't viewing rejections as a failure, but as an objective it itself. But I still think that repeated rejections will take their toll on a guy.

If this was the case we would still be living like cavemen did with no technology at all because every invention that has ever been created has come with hundreds if not thousands of failures prior to success.

 

[TheGambino]

Nah not really, you got to get immune to rejection. My natural tall good looking nephew had natural confidence because of his looks. He would get loads choosing signals everyday. He would talk to every attractive girl he sees or fat girl that chooses him on the street constantly, hitting on 20/30 women a day. When he saw one, he just talks, whistles anything. Some would ignore, walk, or come back or talk. At least 10 of them would give their number or talk to him. The rejections wouldn’t even mind him, at all. He forgets her in a split second.

after self improvement and loads of gymtime I would do this from 2014 - 2016. In 2014 i remember I got rejected soooooo many times because of bad approaches and lack of game. Gotten better, sharper, more confidence and in 2017 I fvcked over 50 women. Only from night game and cold approaches. I laughed when a girl rejected me and went on to the next. Girls would know me downtown for being a fvkboy.

if your really bad looking and have no charisma or social skills, akwardness, then yes it would take a toll. But hopefully you’ll get better everyday.

 

[corrector]

I was recently reading about something called "Learned Helplessness Theory". Basically, this states that if you attempt a task multiple times without success, then you give up because it teaches you that you can't succeed at it.

I was wondering how this squares with the PUA idea of collecting rejections, and rejections being a good thing, and how you should not GAF about rejections?
It seems to me that if you start out getting a number of rejections, you're going to learn that you are not successful with the opposite sex, and you will likely end up joining MGTOW lol. It seems to me that repeatedly receiving rejections is not going to be a good thing for most men, it's not going to bolster their confidence.

I guess part of the answer is that in this context, they aren't viewing rejections as a failure, but as an objective it itself. But I still think that repeated rejections will take their toll on a guy.

True Learned Helplessness would mean that you are so depressed that even if a woman showed IOIs or clear signals, you'd say "Nah, she's doing that to someone else, or she's doesn't know who I really am and if she finds out my set-up then she'll run for the hills, rather than go through this humiliation I'll just pretend she's not there, etc...." If a woman is not objectively showing interest then it's not really "Learned Helplessness" since most people on here would not pursue a woman who is low mid-level interest because its a waste of time.

The other question is at what point is a rejection a rejection? Is not getting an IOI or approach invitation a rejection in and of itself? Not getting her phone number? Getting dumped? If it means not getting IOI's or AIs, then that is outside anyone's control.

 

[zekko]

My natural tall good looking nephew had natural confidence because of his looks. He would get loads choosing signals everyday. He would talk to every attractive girl he sees or fat girl that chooses him on the street constantly, hitting on 20/30 women a day. When he saw one, he just talks, whistles anything. Some would ignore, walk, or come back or talk. At least 10 of them would give their number or talk to him. The rejections wouldn’t even mind him, at all. He forgets her in a split second.

In a case like that though, he's learned that he's already successful with women, because he gets loads of choosing signals every day. If he's getting 10 numbers every time he goes out, that's not really what Learned Helplessness Theory is about. In that case, you aren't getting any successes at all, so you give up.

I never did like rejections, I never did get to the point where I enjoyed them, they always annoyed me. I used to approach women when I was younger, it never really bothered me, but I never did a boot camp type of thing.

 

[mrgoodstuff]

Nah not really, you got to get immune to rejection. My natural tall good looking nephew had natural confidence because of his looks. He would get loads choosing signals everyday. He would talk to every attractive girl he sees or fat girl that chooses him on the street constantly, hitting on 20/30 women a day. When he saw one, he just talks, whistles anything. Some would ignore, walk, or come back or talk. At least 10 of them would give their number or talk to him. The rejections wouldn’t even mind him, at all. He forgets her in a split second.

after self improvement and loads of gymtime I would do this from 2014 - 2016. In 2014 i remember I got rejected soooooo many times because of bad approaches and lack of game. Gotten better, sharper, more confidence and in 2017 I fvcked over 50 women. Only from night game and cold approaches. I laughed when a girl rejected me and went on to the next. Girls would know me downtown for being a fvkboy.

if your really bad looking and have no charisma or social skills, akwardness, then yes it would take a toll. But hopefully you’ll get better everyday.

In your failures you had successes. A man who has only failure without success will train himself how to fail.

 

[Mike32ct]

The other question is at what point is a rejection a rejection? Is not getting an IOI or approach invitation a rejection in and of itself? Not getting her phone number? Getting dumped? If it means not getting IOI's or AIs, then that is outside anyone's control.

In the classic PUA sense, a rejection usually means that the guy approaches but gets "shut down."

That can play out many different ways. But the most common is when the chick just ignores the guy trying talking to her. Or she grabs her friend and walks away. Or she gives one word answers; or eyerolls the guy; or says "I have a boyfriend"; or she pretends to not understand English. But some "shut down" of sorts.

Unless the PUA is trying for a number or ONS. Then he might have a good initial conversation and possibly more, but he does not reach his end goal with her.

 

[TheGambino]

In a case like that though, he's learned that he's already successful with women, because he gets loads of choosing signals every day. If he's getting 10 numbers every time he goes out, that's not really what Learned Helplessness Theory is about. In that case, you aren't getting any successes at all, so you give up.

I never did like rejections, I never did get to the point where I enjoyed them, they always annoyed me. I used to approach women when I was younger, it never really bothered me, but I never did a boot camp type of thing.

That’s why you got to self improve yourself to get more choosing signals. If a girl smiles back to you it’s a green light to approach her and have small talk and see where it goes. If she doesn’t look at you or laugh or flirt then I wouldn’t even bother talking to her.

 

[Mike32ct]

My best nights were when I did one or two approaches, not 15 or 20. I totally respect guys that go for big numbers, but that was never my style.

 

[TheGambino]

My best nights were when I did one or two approaches, not 15 or 20. I totally respect guys that go for big numbers, but that was never my style.

Yes I like quality over quantity to but I would do 5-6 a night. But my nephew was a killer that dude lived for it. He just talks to every dang girl he sees. Always, when he’s going to the barber, store, whatever. He hits on girls constantly always. I was never like him though in 2016-2017 I did loads too. Now I got my sh*t together I’m getting back in shape so after corona I can kill the streets, festivals and night game again.

 

[Mike32ct]

Yes I like quality over quantity to but I would do 5-6 a night. But my nephew was a killer that dude lived for it. He just talks to every dang girl he sees. Always, when he’s going to the barber, store, whatever. He hits on girls constantly always. I was never like him though in 2016-2017 I did loads too. Now I got my sh*t together I’m getting back in shape so after corona I can kill the streets, festivals and night game again.

As an introvert, I preferred to be very focused/targeted. If I found a decent looking lone wolf chick or pair of chicks nearby that I had good gut feeling about, then I would approach. It worked reasonably well.

An extroverted guy probably has more fuel in the tank for a greater quantity of approaches.

 

[BackInTheGame78]

I think basically what this shows is some people are mentally tough and others are not. But that isn't some huge revelation, it permeates into lots of other places in people's lives.

 

[Stoic]

If this was the case we would still be living like cavemen did with no technology at all because every invention that has ever been created has come with hundreds if not thousands of failures prior to success.

True, but inventions come from a very tiny few that persevered through tireless trial and error and temporary disappointment like Thomas Edison or the Wright brothers.

The average man I dont think will endure countless rejections.

 

[OldComeBacker]

It depends on the context and your mindset at the time of the rejections. I grew up very inhibited and risk averse with tons of social anxiety. When you have social anxiety, avoiding embarrassment and rejection is the goal. Of course that avoidance is the worst thing you can do if you want to get better, but most people seek comfort to coast through life. I did not get my first rejection until after my marriage fell apart, and it felt like a huge accomplishment.

I rejected myself when I was in my late teens and 20s and ended up in a series of bad relationships and eventually a bad marriage because I was lonely and had low self-esteem. When I was around 13-15 I was fat, depressed, and ugly, and schoolmates had no problem reminding me of that. Girls would talk about dating me as a joke/prank. If you've ever been a fat anxious teen, it's hard to grow out of that mentality. I think a lot of incels get stuck in that identity and internalize that "no matter what they do" they are just stuck there. I felt like that too but I wasn't incel only because just enough women showed me interest after I went through puberty and turned out much more attractive. I inadvertently rejected girls who liked me, because I remembered the pranks. I felt like "how could she possibly like me when I was the kid average girls were embarrassed to be associated with a couple years ago?" I always felt suspicious of any woman's motive, what was their angle and how were they trying to use me? it probably didn't help that women actually started talking to me and would fight with each other and plants things in my mind about the others. I wouldn't even attempt things because I would think way far ahead and find reasons I wouldn't be "worthy" of dating some chick.

Now, after growing as a man, I enjoy challenges and I enjoy being uncomfortable and seeking opportunities to fail and adapt. I really DGAF if some woman doesn't like me, and I'm fast to drop any who give me drama and I'm not so needy to get with any just because I can. At one point I probably would have dated any woman who showed interest, zero standards. It's something, if you get stuck in that mindset as a reject/failure, you have to work through but yoou can work through. If you are a grown man and the rejections really affect you like they did when you were a little kid, you are lacking something within you.

 

[bat soup]

I was recently reading about something called "Learned Helplessness Theory". Basically, this states that if you attempt a task multiple times without success, then you give up because it teaches you that you can't succeed at it.

I was wondering how this squares with the PUA idea of collecting rejections, and rejections being a good thing, and how you should not GAF about rejections?
It seems to me that if you start out getting a number of rejections, you're going to learn that you are not successful with the opposite sex, and you will likely end up joining MGTOW lol. It seems to me that repeatedly receiving rejections is not going to be a good thing for most men, it's not going to bolster their confidence.

I guess part of the answer is that in this context, they aren't viewing rejections as a failure, but as an objective it itself. But I still think that repeated rejections will take their toll on a guy.

There's probably some truth in it. If a guy keeps getting rejected he could get frustrated and give up. But on the other hand, sexual attraction is going to push him to keep trying.

How you view rejection is important because there are always different ways of looking at any situation. The way I see it is that my objective is just to "find out" whether or not a girl is interested. I want to find that truth and once I find it, I feel a certain satisfaction that I have accomplished my mission regardless of whether the answer was yes or no.

 

[redskinsfan92]

You have a solid point. We need to be teaching men how to have at least some success early so they don't get discouraged.

 

[taiyuu_otoko]

Accepting rejects as part of the natural learning process is like any other practice.

Stay open to the natural feedback loop (positive and negative) to keep improving.

I think the idea of Learned Helplessness is not really task specific.

It think it's more of a general feeling of being a loser, or frustrated with way more failures than success.

I'd say PUA or any general self improvement would be associated with normal learning through practice.

The learned helplessness guys w/respect to PUA would be the MGTOWS and the incels.

 

[Bigpapa]

When a girl is rejecting you is not really rejecting you , because she does know who you are or how you are like , she is just rejecting the projection of you that she sees .

this is why you should not take rejections personally

everyone gets rejected because a lot of factors , her being not in a good mood , or you looking like a clown or whatever . There are a gazillion things on why you might get rejected but it is never about who You are.

look at what the ladies men are like and try to project that , and you will see great results

just to give you an example , like 1 year ago I tried to approach a girl and she rejected me flat out . Then the next time we see each other she starts sending me a lot of invitation approaches and when I finally approach her she tells me that she is sorry for being rude but she was having a bad day and she was not in mood to talking

 

[Robert28]

Rejection when I don’t know the girl has never really bothered me. It’s the rejection after 4-5 dates where I’ve invested my time and money and effort into someone and then am fed a bull**** excuse that isn’t the real reason she’s rejecting me. That’s what bothers me the most and what I’ve experienced more than rejection from a girl just by asking her out.

 

[Bigpapa]

Rejection when I don’t know the girl has never really bothered me. It’s the rejection after 4-5 dates where I’ve invested my time and money and effort into someone and then am fed a bull**** excuse that isn’t the real reason she’s rejecting me. That’s what bothers me the most and what I’ve experienced more than rejection from a girl just by asking her out.

You should try to make a move as fast as possible , even trying to sleep with her after the 1st date .

the longer the wheel starts roving in her mind the more likely it is that she will reject you , because she will think about other guys who moved faster than you and then she will compare them with you and will think that she does not like you enough